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[feynoob]

Bungie wants dominance over the GAAS market.

Bungie is such a bad ass studio. From dictating their freedom to this. That is a boss move.

 

[FrankWza]

i'm talking about the game, not the tv series...

Ah. Yeah maybe but I would say they would have been better off making a classic multiplayer instead of GaaS, fast-food style. It's too hard to do both critical and commercial in that type of game. The ventured too far off their lane

 

[Tomeru]

Egos were shattered i bet....NICE.

Or new truths were revealed and agreed upon (if there are adults there).

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

Neil Druckmann has not spent the last 2 years working on their next game, his attention has been directed towards the TV show and him pretending to be a part of Hollywood. The game isn't in any advanced state IMO.

First half of 2026 at the earliest

 

[ckaneo]

We're in the multi verse now. In this reality, Bungie has power of ND. Enough power to cancel their IP.

Naughty Dog doesnt know anything about live service games to be far.

 

[adamsapple]

Bungie is such a bad ass studio. From dictating their freedom to this. That is a boss move.

They must hold a lot of sway and veto power if they're able to force these kind of executive decisions in just one year of their acquisition.

 

[Vick]

Just cancel it and put everyone on the single player project.

Fuck GAAS trash.

Enough of them. Move on

This.

Naughty Dog wasting time on GaaS shit sounded fucking insulting anyway.

 

[icerock]

Bungie aren't assessing the overall quality of the game, just the live service elements and whether they have long term potential. Because, if they are assessing the quality of the titles. Then, Concord and Fairgame$ shouldn't have been greenlit because both are PvP Sci-Fi shooter GaaS.

Also, this is doomcase scenario but imagine if Bungie started crying in 3 years again that they want to go independent after causing internal beef in their studios?

 

[Gone]

Naughty, but very slow, Dogs.

 

[SlimySnake]

This week should be a massive wake up call for both Hermen and Jim, this is entirely on these two.

While I think the buck stops with these two, lets not forget that Neil is now the co-studio head with Evan Wells. It's him and Evan Wells who decided on this stuff and I think neil's extended absence from the studio didnt help.

That said I agree. It's time to stop forcing these devs into MP projects and go back to doing what you do best. If you want to branch out, do what FromSoft or Zelda did and completely reinvent your existing games with brand new formula, RPG elements and open world.

 

[Sleepwalker]

No offense but Bungie employed every dirty trick in the book to get players hooked. Especially in the early days. I get that GaaS is supposed to retain players for years but i loved Factions and played it non stop for months. Sometimes that should be good enough. You dont need to retain players for years by hiring psyhcology professionals and making people addicts.

Yeah but that's exactly what Jim and Sony want, they want to make a succesfull GaaS to keep you spending and hooked for years and they turned to Bungie for "guidance" so they can use the same methodology.

 

[Zathalus]

Just the pic not the tweet

Well Bungie likely knows what they are talking about, Destiny 2 is fantastic at monetization and player engagement. Not that I like that specific direction but that is apparently what Sony wants...

 

[feynoob]

Ehh. I get that Bungo are now "experts" in live service inside PS Studios. But is it really good to let them assess every other live service project inside of PS Studios?
Because for me that sounds like a recipe for having 10 exactly same live service games in future.

They have to.
Look at every live service games out there. They don't last a year, and that is a lot of potential loss sales.
Worst is if the game is free. That is a huge loss of money, time and resources.

 

[Freeman76]

This pleb is never right

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah but that's exactly what Jim and Sony want, they want to make a succesfull GaaS to keep you spending and hooked for years and they turned to Bungie for "guidance" so they can use the same methodology.

So, you avoid those games and just support the ones you are interested in.

 

[Spukc]

already a thread and let's not give that creepy Jason dude any more attention

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/naughty-dog-announces-development-delay-on-factions-mp-development-beginning-on-a-new-sp-title.1657068/

You should read his book i heard it’s great

 

[xrnzaaas]

Sony will have a big lesson to learn this gen that most gaas/mp games are difficult to make and that they usually fail by losing the playerbase within weeks/months (or even not getting enough attention in the first place). It's not as easy to make a successful, profitable gaas title and in some cases it's just about it being a surprise hit, not something that was supposed to succeed based on all the calculations.

 

[feynoob]

They must hold a lot of sway and veto power if they're able to force these kind of executive decisions in just one year of their acquisition.

When they have destiny 2 at their belt, it's best for Sony to listen to them.

They are the ones who made halo and a billion dollar franchise. They know what they are doing.

 

[FrankWza]

There will be a lot of hyperbole from select mouthpieces until the dust settles.

All of his followers are peeing out of their butts though. That's what matters

 

[Sleepwalker]

So, you avoid those games and just support the ones you are interested in.

I already do lol, but it's the approach Jim wants.

 

[SlimySnake]

I do not think only Bungie opinion did that.

Sony at the Bungie acquisition announcement literally said that they would use Bungie's expertise to make decisions on their gaas projects.

This is a bad idea. Bungie isnt flawless. ND is way more prestigious than Bungie.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I already do lol, but it's the approach Jim wants.

He seems to want a multifaceted approach, but we only focus on the parts we don't like and paint that as the entire picture, when it's not.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

If Bungie is axing Sony multiplayer games, why didn't they have the foresight to stop the release of Lightfall?

 

[feynoob]

Sony at the Bungie acquisition announcement literally said that they would use Bungie's expertise to make decisions on their gaas projects.

This is a bad idea. Bungie isnt flawless. ND is way more prestigious than Bungie.

You want Sony to lose millions?

Live service gamers don't care that much about that quality like sp players. They care about long term commitment. And to do that, you need to have proper monetization that can support the game for long term.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Development hell confirmed.

How did you conclude development hell from this?

Bungie analyzed the game and said that long-term engagement and monetization will be an issue with the current model, so they are reevaluating how the game should be to maximize its long-term engagement and revenue potential.

ND could release the game if Sony's plan weren't as ambitious.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Or new truths were revealed and agreed upon (if there are adults there).

No

 

[Luigi Mario]

He seems to want a multifaceted approach, but we only focus on the parts we don't like and paint that as the entire picture, when it's not.

I wonder who gave the go-ahead on spinning off Factions into its own game?

 

[Slothbeing1209]

Fuck this shit.
All I wanted from TLOU 2 Factions was TLOU 1 factions updated with TLOU 2 gameplay, new maps and more content. Sounds like they wanted to do more, and that didn’t go well and now we might not get either.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

No joke, I genuinely believe nd might skip an entire generation.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Look, it’s time for a new IP from them. And I think Factions is just gonna bomb. Who is asking for a GaaS multiplayer-only experience from Naughty Dog?

 

[Fake]

Who is asking for a GaaS multiplayer-only experience from Naughty Dog?

ND fanboys for sure. I never asked for a GAAS. Just a new IP.

 

[icerock]

While I think the buck stops with these two, lets not forget that Neil is now the co-studio head with Evan Wells. It's him and Evan Wells who decided on this stuff and I think neil's extended absence from the studio didnt help.

That said I agree. It's time to stop forcing these devs into MP projects and go back to doing what you do best. If you want to branch out, do what FromSoft or Zelda did and completely reinvent your existing games with brand new formula, RPG elements and open world.

Neil isn't as involved with the studios working, Sony actually went out of their way and wanted him to help through the entire production process of TLOU show (not just writing) and this year he is working on pre-production TLOU Season 2, and will probably be busy for another 6 months while it's being shot. This is entirely on Sony, especially Jim and Hermen.

I don't think it's TLOU Part III their next project, it's a new IP as the tweet today said "Brand new SP experience".

Also, keep in mind, it was Sony who made the initial push for GaaS which is why this project ever grew that big in the first place. (No shot it would've been greenlit under man in my avatar). Also, any GaaS is gonna be day and date on PC plus PS5, so in turn ND spent more resources and more time trying to build their pipeline and engine for new gen keeping PC in mind. This is evident when you see how TLOU 1 Remake turned out. So, to sum it up, not only Sony gave blessing to Neil, to spend 2-3 years working on a TV show, they also wasted 4 years of ND time on a MP project, and in turn their engine/pipeline for new gen has been worked upon keeping PC in mind. So, when they pivot back to SP only projects for PS5 (assuming PC ports would be outsourced) they'll spend even more time now trying to build and optimize their engine to PS5 strengths.

This is an utter mess, imagine doing this to your best and most prestigious studio.

 

[Tomeru]

No

I'm an optimist.





And yes, I know that's not how you spell naive.

 

[gothmog]

I had a theory that basically any work done during Covid was so compromised it might as well have been thrown out. These past few months in gaming have been eye opening.

I'm considering making a larger thread later or someone can do it if they want but:
- Marvel and other movies went off the rails
- Xbox was and is still in a tailspin
- Sony seems like they have hit a wall with newer projects.
- Cross gen stuff may have been far enough along to not be as impacted.

What a crazy ending to a crazy month.

 

[semiconscious]

Ah. Yeah maybe but I would say they would have been better off making a classic multiplayer instead of GaaS, fast-food style. It's too hard to do both critical and commercial in that type of game. The ventured too far off their lane

yeah, i'd say that it's very likely, as masters of the universe, they thought that factions would be a cakewalk &, given the nd fanbase thirst, an easy win. as you say, they obviously seriously misjudged things, including their own sense of development infallibility...

 

[rofif]

Me and certainly a lot of us, have not asked for GAAS sony games. I wouldn't play it.
PlayStation is amazing single player games. not gaas. wtf cares about that crap.
If it was uncharte3 or Killzon2 multiplayer? sure. but gaas division like games fuck no.
I don't see how they could make good tlou gaas game

 

[Captain Toad]

Fucking kill me with these twitter letters

How would one do that?

 

[Msamy]

Hope that bungie canceles all sony first party studios gaas titles and let them focus on what making them special (single player games)

 

[Bartski]

Bungie analyzed the game and said that long-term engagement and monetization will be an issue with the current model, so they are reevaluating how the game should be to maximize its long-term engagement and revenue potential.

ND could release the game if Sony's plan weren't as ambitious.

or maybe the should fuck all that and just make an MP game that capitalizes on everything that made factions great with part 2 gameplay, for a deliberately smaller audience rather than trying to make ALL THE MONEY

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I'm an optimist.





And yes, I know that's not how you spell naive.

dont worry, I don't know how to write. I use Grammarly for that.

 

[Kacho]

I had a theory that basically any work done during Covid was so compromised it might as well have been thrown out. These past few months in gaming have been eye opening.

I'm considering making a larger thread later or someone can do it if they want but:
- Marvel and other movies went off the rails
- Xbox was and is still in a tailspin
- Sony seems like they have hit a wall with newer projects.
- Cross gen stuff may have been far enough along to not be as impacted.

What a crazy ending to a crazy month.

I think there’s a lot of truth to it, among many other issues impacting quality in every medium.

 

[ProtoByte]

Phil Spencer this week must be sat there with a few bottles of red wine, like......

"Jim,...welcome to the gang...."

Christ, you are not slick.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

ND fanboys for sure. I never asked for a GAAS. Just a new IP.

ND fanboys are asking for a GaaS game from them? Why? They’ve only ever released single player games. With the occasional multiplayer element tacked-on.

 

[Loomy]

Sony has invested heavily in “games as a service,” or video games designed to be monetized beyond their initial sales through ongoing purchases. As part of that push it asked another of its video-game studios, Seattle-based Bungie, to evaluate the games across its portfolio. Bungie raised questions about the The Last of Us multiplayer project’s ability to keep players engaged for a long period of time, which led to the reassessment.

This is how you make the most of that money spent. There are very few studios out there with actual experience running a successful GAAS product, and even fewer with experience pivoting that product when it fails to appeal to fans as Bungie had to do after Destiny 2 launched.

More than enough games to play across PS/Xbox/PC. Give them the time they need.

 

[Business]

(ﾉ｀□´)ﾉ⌒┻━┻

 

[Ronin_7]

This.

Naughty Dog wasting time on GaaS shit sounded fucking insulting anyway.

Yup, move everyone into new IP & TLOU 3 imo.

 

[MasterCornholio]

At least we got an answer on that. Never thought they were having issues.

 

[JimRyanGOAT]

I think it's the wrong approach. You want to see what ND with their own DNA can bring to the industry. Otherwise things become way too samey.

I love what ND did with factions. It was unlike any other multiplayer game out there. slow, methodical with crafting way before fucking warzone and pubg. KZ2 is still unmatched in terms of intensity becuase they chose not to go for the cod feel.

Bringing in Bungie just to shit on other devs who have done this before when Bungie themselves have lost most of their core audience is bizarre. Bungie doesnt have all the answers. People fucking hate Bungie for what they did to Destiny.

Me and certainly a lot of us, have not asked for GAAS sony games. I wouldn't play it.
PlayStation is amazing single player games. not gaas. wtf cares about that crap.
If it was uncharte3 or Killzon2 multiplayer? sure. but gaas division like games fuck no.
I don't see how they could make good tlou gaas game

Sony only drops high quality, they felt the game was not up to that standard. They don't want to drop another Resistance 2 that dies off after 6 months.

So they need to either cut their losses and double down on what they do best, or stick with diversifying their portfolio.

So when these Live Service games do drop, they match the quality you guys have come to know with the SP games.

 

[feynoob]

I had a theory that basically any work done during Covid was so compromised it might as well have been thrown out. These past few months in gaming have been eye opening.

I'm considering making a larger thread later or someone can do it if they want but:
- Marvel and other movies went off the rails
- Xbox was and is still in a tailspin
- Sony seems like they have hit a wall with newer projects.
- Cross gen stuff may have been far enough along to not be as impacted.

What a crazy ending to a crazy month.

Now you starting to believe the COVID issues?

I have been telling people about that for a long time, and no one believed me here.

 

[near]

How did you conclude development hell from this?

Bungie analyzed the game and said that long-term engagement and monetization will be an issue with the current model, so they are reevaluating how the game should be to maximize its long-term engagement and revenue potential.

ND could release the game if Sony's plan weren't as ambitious.

Having to reevaluate a game after it's been in development for a while is the definition of development hell. The state of something failing to progress for a long period of time. Development hell.