No he doesn't realize that. He just wants everyone to be quiet and to let the police do their jobs. He doesn't realize that the police stopped doing their jobs weeks ago. He also doesn't realize that the media and church leaders have been the ones to get the ball rolling after the initial police investigation found no wrongdoing. It's all so sad sad sad that blacks are upset over this, when everything was going so nicely before. And it's all Jesse Jackson's fault. Yuck.
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Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
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No he doesn't realize that. He just wants everyone to be quiet and to let the police do their jobs. He doesn't realize that the police stopped doing their jobs weeks ago. He also doesn't realize that the media and church leaders have been the ones to get the ball rolling after the initial police investigation found no wrongdoing. It's all so sad sad sad that blacks are upset over this, when everything was going so nicely before. And it's all Jesse Jackson's fault. Yuck.
I think panic and anger can go together. It's the hatred part that is going to trip up. That's all i'm trying to say. If you are trying to make hatred and race his motive that is subjective material that is really hard to prove and the defense is already well on their way building a case on that. Concentrating on the wrong thing can get this case thrown out, see the casey anthony trial. I think the evidence is right there for the picking but people want to let their emotions stand in the way because they have this short film in their head of Trayvon being chased down by a scowling frothing racist intent on killing him, cornering him, beating him down till he screams and whimpers for help then shooting him and the police and Zimmerman then plotting this entire conspiracy theory and inflicting wounds on himself or something to cover it up.
That might make for a TV movie but these people aren't that smart and it just doesn't make sense motive wise and is just extremely hard to prove. Especially lacks as you said witnesses. At that point you are trying to convict on gut feelings and emotions and that type of trial would get thrown out. From the way the family and lawyer is talking thankfully it sounds like they realize this and thats not how its going to go down. You have negligent and poor police investigation and definite issues with racial profiling. You also have part of a community, including several black neighbors and personal friends in authority he is calling in so the anger and racially motivated killing is just an extremely hard thing to prove.
If you take the evidence that you are given though at face value, wound on this head, broken/bloody noise you know a fight happened. Again, barring the emotional picture people want to form in their heads he was a 17 year old athlete. We don't know the extent of training for zimmerman but seeing pictures and how he acted here when his neighbor called him more like barney fife i tend to believe that. I mean that was a golden line and description that the prosecution should be using. Saying Trayvon was half the size of zimmerman is hyperbole. Hell i just had a friend from overseas staying at my house with his 16 year old son and the son towered over me, I think people are forgetting what juniors and seniors in high school looked like.
I'm saying go with the evidence you do have to work with, when you put it together the story fits and its more credible and still incriminates zimmerman. I understand to some it may not demonize Zimmerman the way some want him to be, but it certainly doesn't excuse pulling a gun on a teen who was unarmed in panic because he stood up to you and it didn't go as you planned. Especially when he himself instigated the whole thing. He's guilty of racial profiling, hes guilty of bullying, hes guilty of being a dumbass wannabe hero gloryhound most importantly hes guilty of making a very stupid stupid decison in the heat of a moment.
This is why its so hard to have a discussion on this, people are too emotional. Why did you even post this? Where did I say otherwise? Where did anyone say otherwise? Sorry, except for Kosmo. in my defense he posted both after you and me. And also, he is Kosmo soooo.
I'd be wondering motive, why is this person chasing me and wanting to gun me down. If I did absolutely nothing and the guy wasn't trying to mug me that would be extremely odd and just raise even more questions no? The more questions the harder and harder it gets to prove anything and get a judgement. Proving in the court is alot harder then on a message board.
Very, very true.
Open Source
Banned
I wonder if there was a struggle for the gun at some point. And when it came out. Did Zimmerman get out of his vehicle and pull it, or did Martin snatch it from a holster or the like? There are a lot of possibilities.
I hope that if I'm ever accused of a crime and go to trial, my jury won't deliver a verdict after the prosecution's opening statement and will wait until all sides have presented their evidence. Which means I better ask my lawyer to try to get NeoGAFers disqualified.
Baconsammy
Banned
Do you make a habit of racially profiling people, stalking them and then murdering them? If not, I think you're safe.
CrazyDogg77
Member
Is pretty sad that people think blacks shouldn't be concerned about this.
Baconsammy
Banned
What he said was that the threat Trayvon was presenting to Zimmerman was so strong that Zimmerman was going to die if he didn't use his gun. Apparently the reason the police didn't arrest Zimmerman is because they believed it as well. If there were evidence of this, one would hope the authorities would present it and possibly stabilize a really heated situation. But again, his is Florida.
Not only was he suspended from school because of drug paraphernalia, but it seems he was also the aggressor (according to eye witnesses):
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-20120326,0,4845076.story
soundahfekz
Member
1) We need to hear all the facts, but the fact that Zimmerman was following Martin means that he is likely guilty, or at the very least, did something to provoke any alleged altercation.
2) How ingenuous is the media being in portraying Trayvon Martin? Why are weer only being shown pictures of him when he was 11 - 14? Wasn't he 17?
That being said, I'm sure these t-shirts will help calm tensions (can Hispanics be Crackers - serious question, I didn't know it was applied other than to whites?):
The fuck are you posting this in here like anyone is going to post a justification for it? The dudes a racist idiot through and through.
I honestly think you have a keyword macro for "right wing" because no sooner than the issue of "politics" popped up, there you were.
Dreams-Visions
Member
it's Kosmo. it's the sort of contribution I expect from him here, to be honest. The positions he takes and the ways he voices them are always predictable. Always. Pieces of glass are less transparent than Kosmo. With respect.
lol, goddamn.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
That line makes me think that they were possibly struggling for the gun. Which still does not exonerate Zimmerman. Trayvon was well within his rights to fight and attempt to acquire the gun of some random 'wacko' stalking and chasing him at night.
Yea, kinda what i've been saying. I think the whole standoff part on his way back to his car is either heavily embellished or straight up lies but I think both itching to start something led to the scuffle and at this point I really do believe the part about Zimmerman being the one screaming for help because he was getting beat. He thought he was in charge and going to bully this teen and be the hero and when Trayvon stood up to him, bam, panic mode.
Unfortunately the school suspension and drug thing shouldn't have anything to do with this case, but it will stick in their minds.
Why is this coming out now? The pressure of the case? I thought they were waiting for a trial now we hear Zimmermans side and police say "much of it has been corroborated by witnesses"
All this shit is suspicious, no pun intended.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager
I do remember the police saying he had cuts on the back of his head and a bloody nose.
All this shit is suspicious, no pun intended.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager
I do remember the police saying he had cuts on the back of his head and a bloody nose.
soundscream
Member
Baconsammy
Banned
Well, the picture most sites are using of Zimmerman is his mugshot, so he's no saint either.
Interesting, so if this is accurate:
Zimmerman did attempt approaching Martin after being told not to by 911 dispatch. Martin eventually confronted his follower, was aggressive and assaulted him. Zimmerman ended up shooting him in defense.
We still don't know WTF to believe anymore, but again if this is true I don't see any criminal charges being brought on Zimmerman. Yeah some guy is stalking you, but if you assault them you don't have much defense when it comes to how they react back.
Either way, Zimmerman should have stayed in his damn vehicle as he was told to do.
Edit:
Why are you all so intent on believing either side of this story? We don't know what happened yet, you shouldn't be making such assumptions for either side of this story. I'm merely basing my above comments on if the account of Zimmerman and witnesses are actually true.
ShinNL
Member
Objection.
Zimmerman's testimony completely contradicts the events described by Martin's girlfriend who Martin was on the phone with.
It also makes completely no sense for Martin to call his girlfriend while running and also call 911, only to chase Zimmerman to sucker punch him. No, freaking, sense, at all.
Sure, your right.
However, there is also witness testimony backing up the official police report that Zimmerman was assaulted and that there is physical evidence backing it up (grass on back, busted face and back of head). This doesn't mean Zimmerman didn't start the confrontation, but still. We also have to assume those articles are true, and back to my point, we don't know shit so it's stupid to be taking sides here.
MightyHealthy
Banned
People are upset because Zimmerman chased a fleeing teenager and shot him, when all he had to do was wait a few minutes for the police to find out that the boy was living with his father, and he had a right to be in the neighborhood.
and OF COURSE drug paraphernalia proves that Trayvon Martin was a shady character who didn't have the right to defend himself from a crazed neighborhood watchman with a gun.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
distantmantra
Member
I'm curious why this unnamed witness is more credible and/or important than everyone else...
Leona Lewis
Banned
We don't know shit? All we need to know is that this whole thing could have been avoided if Zimmerman followed the instructions to not confront Trayvon. Zimmerman would continue to roam the streets, his life free and undisturbed, and more importantly, a teenager would still be alive.
Nothing Trayvon did after an armed Zimmerman confronted him changes the fact that Zimmerman initiated contact and terminated a life.
BattleMonkey
Member
Everything being said here is based off what is being portrayed and given out by various media sources.
Though at Trial, a completely different story will be told... always happens. The media does not know everything, lawyers on all sides bottle up witnesses and info from being leaked, evidence and detailed records are not available to all that will be presented at the grand jury panel and at trial.
Probably because this unnamed witness hasn't been going to the media and talking. As soon as someone involved in the case in any form starts going on tv and giving interviews, their word goes to crap.
Baconsammy
Banned
Isn't there an invention by now that can discern who's voice is crying out for help in the phone calls to police?
I mean, we have computer software that can do that right? Seems like an easy way to figure out if any of what Zimmerman is saying might be true. Still seems like a paranoid liar though.
I mean, we have computer software that can do that right? Seems like an easy way to figure out if any of what Zimmerman is saying might be true. Still seems like a paranoid liar though.
distantmantra
Member
Hasn't this person gone to media as well, just not giving their name?
soundscream
Member
Also the story is now he lost sight of him and went back to the car not that he was checking the street sign.
Guess they realized that wasn't believable.
I'm sure they will keep changing the story till he can explain why he stalked and killed a 17 year old kid who was unarmed.
Also they are making Martin out to be some sort of krav maga expert who went all batman on Zimmerman.
Guess they realized that wasn't believable.
I'm sure they will keep changing the story till he can explain why he stalked and killed a 17 year old kid who was unarmed.
Also they are making Martin out to be some sort of krav maga expert who went all batman on Zimmerman.
ShinNL
Member
Stop saying we don't know shit. Plenty of people here has been following the story here from the beginning. We have facts (dead freaking body of someone going to buy snacks, fact!). We have recordings of calls we've listened to. We know Zimmerman got out of his car. We know Zimmerman shot the teenager. We know the size differences.
We're not freaking dolls who can't think. There's a shit ton of dots. We can draw some general lines of what the events have been.
There's also a ton of facts about the incompetence of the Police Department, ranging from the shoddy history to the lack of drug testing on Zimmerman (but there's a drug test on Martin!).
These are facts we know. Not fairy tales. Your statement "we don't know shit" is pointless.
childplease
Banned
People in Florida are well armed though unlike citizens in LA.
If such riots happened it would be open season on the rioters lots of senseless bloodshed.
BattleMonkey
Member
Is it the same person? The lawyers on either side are supposed to be wrangling these people together and preventing them from going to the media to discuss any details of the case.
I could possibly actually completely erase most other sound except for the yelling if the recording was of higher quality. Maybe I'll attempt something like that later today if I'm not lazy and see if I can even get anything useable with the muddled quality of the tape. If you can separate the yelling you could look at it under a spectrum analyzer for signafying frequency balance among other things if you have samples of Zimmerman's voice for comparison.
BattleMonkey
Member
You know only a portion of the story, that's how it always is. The media only ever can give out a portion of the full story, some shady shit is obvious, but people are acting like they are full judge and jury and know every single detail already.
I served on the Grand Jury of a high profile self defense shooting once, and what was revealed and presented to us was hugely different from the story and details that the media was able to put out, as so much is locked up in legal procedures, lawyers clamping down on witness testimonies, and evidence that the media has no way of getting too. But following the story and media leaked details really only tells you a very incomplete story.
The police in this situation though is another matter and is highly questionable with the handling of this case.
Also the State attorney's office has been dragging their feet here
New facts (such as Trayvon being suspended for drugs) are coming out each week?
What details are going to make a scenario in which Zimmerman followed, chased after, and shot an unarmed kid walking home from the store right?
ShinNL
Member
Yeah, I never said we know everything. I'm also not a fan of people making up hypothetical (suggestive) situations, whether it's for Trayvon's defense or for Zimmerman's defense (kinda why I don't like TYT's coverage of this). I think the whole race lynch-like outcry is also too much. But saying we don't know anything is also wrong. We can't draw the whole story, but I can for example conclude that the Police Department did some really fishy things since the beginning.
I think the biggest problem is that people are trying to suggest the motives for all the parties. Why was the Police Department so fishy? Why did Zimmerman think Martin was suspicious? I'm personally just interested in the facts.
I really don't see how this fact is relevant to what happened. At all. That's just a media sensational thing, is it not?
wonderkins
Member
What this thread needs is the contributions of a racist, faux pharmacist with a penchant for extremist rhetoric.
...And right on cue, there it is.
...And right on cue, there it is.
soundscream
Member
Could something like that be done and used in court as evidence?
And I haven't seen/heard anything from Zimmerman.
MightyHealthy
Banned
The fact that he was suspended was known, the "it was for an empty weed baggie" is a new detail.
this. this so hard.
Well that's the thing, isn't it? The same low bar Zimmerman is trying to set for himself could be used by a crazy/malicious person to dispose of him.
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