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Media Create Sales: Week 5, 2013 (Jan 28 - Feb 03)

XDDX

Member
2013 Predictions:

[3DS] Hardware - 6300k
[WIU] Hardware - 1380k
[3DS] Pokemon X/Y - 4350k
[3DS] Monster Hunter 4 - 3400k
[3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - 2000k
[3DS] Dragon Quest VII - 1620k
[3DS] New Super Mario Bros. 2 - 850k
[WIU] New Super Mario Bros. U - 600k
[WIU] Nintendo Land - 500k
 
Sony Earnings out:
05_image.jpg


15_image.jpg


Wonder what the PSP/PSV breakdown is in that 2.7M.
 
Pretty bad quarter for gaming, pretty much guarantees they lose money this FY.

Forecast on handhelds down to 7 million and they probably won't even hit that.

Edit-forgot about GoW coming out at the tail end of the FY, they should eek out a meager profit.
 

jeremy1456

Junior Member
Why are people so suddenly feeling that Wii U is going to continue selling like this after spring ends?

Just wait until it bounces back and people start claiming that no one could have possibly expected it.

Though there are some pretty reasonable people posting. It's the group claiming it will wont bounce back that I'm referring to.
 
Total PSP/Vita shipment forecast for the FY (7m) is now less than half of what Sony originally projected for the year (16m), LOL. At least they've finally set a shipment goal for the current quarter (1.3m) that isn't batshit insane, though I wouldn't be shocked if they fail to even meet that given how many must be sitting on store shelves after the holidays.
 

L Thammy

Member
With regards to the Vita/Wii U comparison earlier in the thread, it's worth noting that from the seventh week on the Wii U has been performing less than the Vita did at the same time in its life.

It was then that Vita had gotten Tales of Innocence, then Ragnarok Odyssey, and then Gravity Rush in consecutive weeks. The Wii U's software for this month has been much worse than the Vita's at the same point.



With regards to PlayStation All-Stars being intentionally made to fail... That may just have been true as far as the Japanese market goes, so to speak. Someone mentioned that it sold less than Tatsunoko Vs Capcom. Actually, it also sold less than Ultimate All-Stars, the version updated for release in America.
 

guek

Banned
Just wait until it bounces back and people start claiming that no one could have possibly expected it.

Though there are some pretty reasonable people posting. It's the group claiming it will wont bounce back that I'm referring to.

It might bounce back, it might not. I'd say it's fair to have people on either side of the spectrum. After all, it's not like have any firm software release dates to go by.
 

extralite

Member
For anyone interested, after a few hours on sale DQVII was already at 5 on the eShop recent charts (only 3DS downloads, no VC or DSi included). And to confirm that those charts update more than daily (probably instantly), now at 5:30 p.m. Japanese time it has climbed to 4.

Meanwhile FL is hanging on to the top 10 at 9. It is the first retail title since NSMB2 to stay in the top 10 for this long (except for AC which remains at 1, of course).
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
For anyone interested, after a few hours on sale DQVII was already at 5 on the eShop recent charts (only 3DS downloads, no VC or DSi included). And to confirm that those charts update more than daily (probably instantly), now at 5:30 p.m. Japanese time it has climbed to 4.

Meanwhile FL is hanging on to the top 10 at 9. It is the first retail title since NSMB2 to stay in the top 10 for this long (except for AC which remains at 1, of course).

these tidbits make me think that undership a game could benefit the DD release (we all know that AC was not able to match the requests, but also FL had the same problem, and probably DQ is very popular and not everyone is able to find it in stores). Considering that softco have bigger margins on the DD release, this undership factor could become a strategy...
 

extralite

Member
these tidbits make me think that undership a game could benefit the DD release (we all know that AC was not able to match the requests, but also FL had the same problem, and probably DQ is very popular and not everyone is able to find it in stores). Considering that softco have bigger margins on the DD release, this undership factor could become a strategy...

Since this is the first day I think people just started to appreciate how convenient the download method is. No need to line up at a store and many people seem to keep their DQ copies anyway and never sell them, since prices on the used market are so similar to Nintendo games (i. e. constantly high).

There's likely also a cross over between AC and DQ (especially female) buyers and AC just awakened them to become DD buyers.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
It might bounce back, it might not. I'd say it's fair to have people on either side of the spectrum. After all, it's not like have any firm software release dates to go by.

Well, I agree.
I mean: it's not so absurd to think that the Wii U simply is not so interesting for the market, and so even with some new releases it won't twist its momentum.
If we look at it, we see that there will be new releases and those of course could increase the awarness of the console when released, compared to now that there is the desert.
but:

- Wii U concept is not selling as the Wii concept did (the comparison between Sport and the Remote VS Land and the Gamepad is telling us this truth), so Wii U is not a console able to base its success on few long sellers as the Wii was back in the days

- Wii U doesn't have and from what we know will not have for months a constant release of software; and we know how important is in Japan to see a constant flow of games on the shelves.

- Wii U doesn't have a strong and constant third party support, and the internal production will be spread all over the year, so we will probably see just one game per month

- Wii U will have some big hit, as for example the internal softwares developed by Nintendo or big names as DQ that could sell decently as MHTri Ultimate (so, decently considering their hd porting nature, and decently in terms of general numbers compared for example to the main Vita releases; not decently compared to the best performace of those brands of course), but Wii U launched with the most important title of the entire Wii U lifecycle (if we don't include possible surprises as Sport was back in the days, of course. but those are not predictable): a main new Super Mario 2d platformer. If that is not a system seller strong enough to push the HW sales, I cannot figure out any other title capable of spinning the momentum of the console.

Also the GC had the most imporant Nintendo IP back in the days, and it ended up selling just 4 millions in Japan. Up to now, most of those IP are more popular than in the past thanks to the Wii success, but that's obviously not enough as Mario is showing; the third party support is not present up to now; the Gamepad concept is not strong "per sè"; the competitor (PS3) was able to gain momentum over the massess (not saying that it's a success, please note) and probably (if Sony will not tag another absurde price point to its new console) will drag attention (thanks to the brand awarness, thanks to the sequels of beloved games and so on) to the PS4; the portable market with the 3DS is stealing the thunder (especially to a console that tries to aim a similar target as the Wii U is doing)...


I think that the only think that could really change Wii U's destiny could be the fact to be perceived as a really overpriced console. So with a price cut we could see a peak of sales. BUt as explained I think that the issues are (also) others.
 
For anyone interested, after a few hours on sale DQVII was already at 5 on the eShop recent charts (only 3DS downloads, no VC or DSi included). And to confirm that those charts update more than daily (probably instantly), now at 5:30 p.m. Japanese time it has climbed to 4.

Meanwhile FL is hanging on to the top 10 at 9. It is the first retail title since NSMB2 to stay in the top 10 for this long (except for AC which remains at 1, of course).

And people were saying that strong Animal Crossing downloads were just a one-shot hit. Apparently the game set the stage for a less skeptical behaviour towards digital purchases in Japan.

Well, I agree.
I mean: it's not so absurd to think that the Wii U simply is not so interesting for the market, and so even with some new releases it won't twist its momentum.
If we look at it, we see that there will be new releases and those of course could increase the awarness of the console when released, compared to now that there is the desert.

True. But the interest of the market might be gained at a slower pace. Look at the DS; it did start better, but touch screen innovation started to be a selling point later on, with software such as Brain Age and Nintendogs, both in Japan and in the West. Wii was lucky to attract many people to begin with; Wii U is not as lucky as the Wii was, but nothing prevents the GamePad to be a selling point after people recognized it as a useful, and innovative, tools for gaming. Also, weren't you saying that Vita had actually some chances to be interesting for the market, so let's wait, it's not all lost? I mean, I do think Wii U has way more chances to be successful in the market than Vita.

- Wii U concept is not selling as the Wii concept did (the comparison between Sport and the Remote VS Land and the Gamepad is telling us this truth), so Wii U is not a console able to base its success on few long sellers as the Wii was back in the days

- Wii U doesn't have and from what we know will not have for months a constant release of software; and we know how important is in Japan to see a constant flow of games on the shelves.

- Wii U doesn't have a strong and constant third party support, and the internal production will be spread all over the year, so we will probably see just one game per month

Remember that we're just talking about its first 3 months in the market.
Nintendo did a mistake leaving empty the first 2013 quarter, but in Spring releases should be more constant, and we know the IP Nintendo will release. Look at PS3 first months, for example. Even 3DS first months, better than Wii U but not so much better, in terms of releases.

And, more importantly, top Wii U games are still selling.

- Wii U will have some big hit, as for example the internal softwares developed by Nintendo or big names as DQ that could sell decently as MHTri Ultimate (so, decently considering their hd porting nature, and decently in terms of general numbers compared for example to the main Vita releases; not decently compared to the best performace of those brands of course), but Wii U launched with the most important title of the entire Wii U lifecycle (if we don't include possible surprises as Sport was back in the days, of course. but those are not predictable): a main new Super Mario 2d platformer. If that is not a system seller strong enough to push the HW sales, I cannot figure out any other title capable of spinning the momentum of the console.

NSMB was the most important on Wii, and it was on DS, but that does not mean it will be on Wii U.
For comparison, Brain Training and Nintendogs were the most important titles on DS in the first period, but failed to repeat the craziness on 3DS. Still, Animal Crossing: New Leaf is selling way better than Wild World, and 3DS got an IP (Monster Hunter) that did not even exist on DS. Hence, it's not safe to assume that NSMB U will be the strongest Wii U seller. I mean, it might happen that the next Zelda will be so big to attract more gamers; or the 3D Mario will be actually more valued by them.

NSMB U suffers the competition of 2 on 3DS, and a franchise fatique that other IPs do not have; for example, the next Super Smash Bros. will be big as usual, and it will be a system seller for sure.

Also the GC had the most imporant Nintendo IP back in the days, and it ended up selling just 4 millions in Japan. Up to now, most of those IP are more popular than in the past thanks to the Wii success, but that's obviously not enough as Mario is showing; the third party support is not present up to now; the Gamepad concept is not strong "per sè"; the competitor (PS3) was able to gain momentum over the massess (not saying that it's a success, please note) and probably (if Sony will not tag another absurde price point to its new console) will drag attention (thanks to the brand awarness, thanks to the sequels of beloved games and so on) to the PS4; the portable market with the 3DS is stealing the thunder (especially to a console that tries to aim a similar target as the Wii U is doing)...

I think you stated some wrong things here. PS3 did not gain any momentum over the masses; it's relying on a faithful, though small userbases; it's selling every year the same IPs and the same typologies of games. Minna no Golf is failing to reach the heights it had on PS2, and in general there are no games towards the masses, such as Taiko, Dragon Quest, and so forth. It's succeeding, but not in the way PS2 did. it succeeded in catching a portion of the userbase PS2 did; other portions are now spread across 3DS, PSP, Wii. Third parties offers on PS3 is quite limited if we talk about targets. And it's not so obvious PS4 will continue what PS3 did. I mean, if PS3 struggled after PS2, PS4 will not likely be an instant success. And it's going to be release one year after the Wii U, when the Wii U will get its AAA titles from Nintendo, and probably something from third parties. also, third parties are struggling developing on HD platforms even now (just look Konami, Square, Capcom, atlus, Level5), hence it's not so obvious PS4 will get "all the beloved franchises" from the start. I might be wrong, of course, but at least I do not put a simplistic framework.

I think that the only think that could really change Wii U's destiny could be the fact to be perceived as a really overpriced console. So with a price cut we could see a peak of sales. BUt as explained I think that the issues are (also) others.

I think Nintendo must absolutely exploit this year of advantage as much as it can. If it can arrive to 2013 holidays with a good price, good bundles and a good internal offer, then it might repeat even a fraction of what 3DS did in 2011, leaving out the competitors out of the picture.
 

Yeshua

Member
[3DS] Hardware - 5500000
[WIU] Hardware - 2500000
[3DS] Pokemon X/Y - 4200000
[3DS] Monster Hunter 4 - 3900000
[3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - 2000000
[3DS] Dragon Quest VII - 2000000
[3DS] New Super Mario Bros. 2 - 1500000
[WIU] New Super Mario Bros. U - 1300000
[WIU] Nintendo Land - 900000
 
True. But the interest of the market might be gained at a slower pace. Look at the DS; it did start better, but touch screen innovation started to be a selling point later on, with software such as Brain Age and Nintendogs, both in Japan and in the West. Wii was lucky to attract many people to begin with; Wii U is not as lucky as the Wii was, but nothing prevents the GamePad to be a selling point after people recognized it as a useful, and innovative, tools for gaming.
There's nothing to say something can't become a break-out success. But expecting some sort of phenomenon like Wii Sports or Brain Training to come along is folly, imo.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
True. But the interest of the market might be gained at a slower pace. Look at the DS; it did start better, but touch screen innovation started to be a selling point later on, with software such as Brain Age and Nintendogs, both in Japan and in the West. Wii was lucky to attract many people to begin with; Wii U is not as lucky as the Wii was, but nothing prevents the GamePad to be a selling point after people recognized it as a useful, and innovative, tools for gaming. Also, weren't you saying that Vita had actually some chances to be interesting for the market, so let's wait, it's not all lost? I mean, I do think Wii U has way more chances to be successful in the market than Vita.

The difference between Sony's console and Nintend's console to me is that the first rely on "classic prposal" and "third party support", while the second rely on "innovative concept" and "first party products". Plus, the business model is really different in terms of price positioning, with Sony's HW starting high and being able to cut the price several times along their lifecycles. While Nintendo console tend to sell better in their first half of life cycle. That's the reason why I think that Vita could be saved (note: I'm not saying that Vita will spin it' destiny entirely becoming able to sell 70K a week), while I'm not so sure that Wii U will be able to change its path.


Remember that we're just talking about its first 3 months in the market.
Nintendo did a mistake leaving empty the first 2013 quarter, but in Spring releases should be more constant, and we know the IP Nintendo will release. Look at PS3 first months, for example. Even 3DS first months, better than Wii U but not so much better, in terms of releases.

And, more importantly, top Wii U games are still selling.

Top Wii U games are selling poorly. 6k a week is almost nothing imho. System seller keep selling way more. Of course, with a low install base, they performed well, but the problem is that they were supposed to push exactly the HW base. They are not able to do it, after the christmas season. Of course I admitted that whene releases will hit the market, the situation will be better than now.

NSMB was the most important on Wii, and it was on DS, but that does not mean it will be on Wii U.
For comparison, Brain Training and Nintendogs were the most important titles on DS in the first period, but failed to repeat the craziness on 3DS. Still, Animal Crossing: New Leaf is selling way better than Wild World, and 3DS got an IP (Monster Hunter) that did not even exist on DS. Hence, it's not safe to assume that NSMB U will be the strongest Wii U seller. I mean, it might happen that the next Zelda will be so big to attract more gamers; or the 3D Mario will be actually more valued by them.

NSMB U suffers the competition of 2 on 3DS, and a franchise fatique that other IPs do not have; for example, the next Super Smash Bros. will be big as usual, and it will be a system seller for sure.

I already said that if there will be some surprise hit as for Sport on the Wii and Brain training on the DS, the situation can change. But those are un-predictable phenomena. With their classic IP considering how Super Mario is performing, I don't think that Wii U will be so different compared to the GC. Not saying that it will do exactly GC numbers but probably just slighlty better. Thinking that classic IP could attract more gamers than before it's hard, up to now. Wii u is neither as broad as the Wii on the casual market, nor popular as the GC on the hardcore fans.
And the competition with the 3DS is something that they'll suffer all the lifecicle, imho. You cite Smash bros? It will suffer a lot on the Wii U, considering that it will be a dual-release with 3DS (first time portable version; mutliplayer based game on portable in Japan; 10x time install base and so on...)


I think you stated some wrong things here. PS3 did not gain any momentum over the masses; it's relying on a faithful, though small userbases; it's selling every year the same IPs and the same typologies of games. Minna no Golf is failing to reach the heights it had on PS2, and in general there are no games towards the masses, such as Taiko, Dragon Quest, and so forth. It's succeeding, but not in the way PS2 did. it succeeded in catching a portion of the userbase PS2 did; other portions are now spread across 3DS, PSP, Wii. Third parties offers on PS3 is quite limited if we talk about targets. And it's not so obvious PS4 will continue what PS3 did. I mean, if PS3 struggled after PS2, PS4 will not likely be an instant success. And it's going to be release one year after the Wii U, when the Wii U will get its AAA titles from Nintendo, and probably something from third parties. also, third parties are struggling developing on HD platforms even now (just look Konami, Square, Capcom, atlus, Level5), hence it's not so obvious PS4 will get "all the beloved franchises" from the start. I might be wrong, of course, but at least I do not put a simplistic framework.

I really think that PS3, despite not being a success, was able to regain a momentum in terms of re-setting classic gameplays, approaches and IPs as the focus for the home market in Japan. PS4 will benefit a lot of this situation.
I know that Japanese softco are struggling on HD development, but we are not seeing ANY effort in terms of HD production values from Japanese softco on the Wii U NOW that it would be easy to port the assets on that console, I don't think they'll spend too much time in adapting the new assets once PS4 will be released. Of course we will not see all the beloved franchises at launch on PS4, but it's way easier to imagine that scenario compared to a scenario where they support the Wii U with all their HD productions while "mastering" PS4 assets.


I think Nintendo must absolutely exploit this year of advantage as much as it can. If it can arrive to 2013 holidays with a good price, good bundles and a good internal offer, then it might repeat even a fraction of what 3DS did in 2011, leaving out the competitors out of the picture.

yes, they have to. The problem is that exactly for this year they seem to have nothing firm to change the path of the console.
Land and Mario faded after the Holiday season; price is probably perceived too high (in japan especially I think that the Premium pack is very expansive, considering that there is no bundle); no third party sighificant support for the actual year (except DQX, that probably cannot sell more than 200K, I think), no game at all for the entire Q1 (Wario and Tank?ok...); few releases announced or pre-announced, none of which able to spin the perception of a "average nowadays nintendo console" (so, not so hot for core gamers as the GC was, not so appealing for the masses as the Wii was) as Fit is a shot in the dark, Pikmin is a good but minor IP, Kart could easily come back to GC level of appreciation (Kart7 is not performing as KartWii or DS too) and we don't know when it will be released; Mario3D could even perform better than expected (as Land on 3DS compared to New Mario 2) but no way it will perform bettern than New Mario U in terms of general LTD numbers; Project X is the spiriutual successor of a beloved game that sold 140K and even imagining it able to double those sales...

Or they'll create a new un-predictable phenomena (aka Sport/Brain) presenting new bundles with a price cut (based on the assumption that the console is perceived as overpriced), otherwise I see them continuing selling like this.

Wii U is no 3DS.




Bolded quote
 
There's nothing to say something can't become a break-out success. But expecting some sort of phenomenon like Wii Sports or Brain Training to come along is folly, imo.

No one is expecting something on those lines. But look at the 3DS: its main selling point (3D) did not work, but it could manage to become a successful platform. First, it's not that a platform must have a gaming gimmick to become successful (or that it will become successful because of that); second, many other factors enter in the process, such as the one-year advantage, the problems many software houses are having in developing on powerful platforms and so on and so forth.

The difference between Sony's console and Nintend's console to me is that the first rely on "classic prposal" and "third party support", while the second rely on "innovative concept" and "first party products". Plus, the business model is really different in terms of price positioning, with Sony's HW starting high and being able to cut the price several times along their lifecycles. While Nintendo console tend to sell better in their first half of life cycle. That's the reason why I think that Vita could be saved (note: I'm not saying that Vita will spin it' destiny entirely becoming able to sell 70K a week), while I'm not so sure that Wii U will be able to change its path.

The business model changed with Wii U because it's the most expensive Nintendo platforms of the recent generations. Wii U is not cheap, as 3DS was not cheap. Nintendo has still many degrees of freedom for what concerns the price. It can be simply adjusted, and its perception might be altered by including a game in a package, something that have yet to happen in Japan. Hence, Nintendo platforms tended to sell well in the first half of life-cycle (which is not even entirely true considering 3DS, and DS itself) because they usually launched with lower price points. Wii U is not comparable in this terms, and it is closer to what Sony has always done.

Top Wii U games are selling poorly. 6k a week is almost nothing imho. System seller keep selling way more. Of course, with a low install base, they performed well, but the problem is that they were supposed to push exactly the HW base. They are not able to do it, after the christmas season. Of course I admitted that whene releases will hit the market, the situation will be better than now.

Games are selling poorly because hardware is selling poorly. But Vita was selling poorly and it did not even have any game in the chart after two weeks. Even 3DS had a similar problem: though selling more hardware units, its games went below 6k copies after 6 weeks (Nintendogs + cats) and 7 weeks (Professor Layton). Wii U has already three 200k sellers, and one of them is a 400k sellers. Attach ratio is quite high, IIRC. This is just to say that Wii U is not completely screwed up even though it did not have any game in the past month and a half.

I already said that if there will be some surprise hit as for Sport on the Wii and Brain training on the DS, the situation can change. But those are un-predictable phenomena. With their classic IP considering how Super Mario is performing, I don't think that Wii U will be so different compared to the GC. Not saying that it will do exactly GC numbers but probably just slighlty better. Thinking that classic IP could attract more gamers than before it's hard, up to now. Wii u is neither as broad as the Wii on the casual market, nor popular as the GC on the hardcore fans.
And the competition with the 3DS is something that they'll suffer all the lifecicle, imho. You cite Smash bros? It will suffer a lot on the Wii U, considering that it will be a dual-release with 3DS (first time portable version; mutliplayer based game on portable in Japan; 10x time install base and so on...)

So are you saying Wii U is going to sell 4-5 million units in Japan? Checked!
Anyway, not only Brain Training and Wii Sports are able to sell hardware. As you can see, Animal Crossing is selling really well, and it's driving 3DS sales, without being a causal game phenomenon.
Of course, when we will have a clearer idea on the internal offer, it will be easy to discuss about this topic. But if you think that only ultra-causal games can drive the sales of a platform, well, that's not true.


I really think that PS3, despite not being a success, was able to regain a momentum in terms of re-setting classic gameplays, approaches and IPs as the focus for the home market in Japan. PS4 will benefit a lot of this situation.
I know that Japanese softco are struggling on HD development, but we are not seeing ANY effort in terms of HD production values from Japanese softco on the Wii U NOW that it would be easy to port the assets on that console, I don't think they'll spend too much time in adapting the new assets once PS4 will be released. Of course we will not see all the beloved franchises at launch on PS4, but it's way easier to imagine that scenario compared to a scenario where they support the Wii U with all their HD productions while "mastering" PS4 assets.

You wrote PS3 gained momentum again the masses... That is not true. It's the leading home console in Japan now? Of course, but the scenario is quite different than PS2-era, that really was able to catch every target. As for PS4 games, well, I'd wait its presentation. I mean, following your reasoning, Japanese third parties should have all been on board on Vita, given PSP legacy. Capcom is developing Monster Hunter for Vita, isn't it?

I just say that in 2011 Summer the more likely scenario was 3DS left alone by third parties, overcome by the incoming Vita that would have got ALL of them on board.


yes, they have to. The problem is that exactly for this year they seem to have nothing firm to change the path of the console.
Land and Mario faded after the Holiday season; price is probably perceived too high (in japan especially I think that the Premium pack is very expansive, considering that there is no bundle); no third party sighificant support for the actual year (except DQX, that probably cannot sell more than 200K, I think), no game at all for the entire Q1 (Wario and Tank?ok...); few releases announced or pre-announced, none of which able to spin the perception of a "average nowadays nintendo console" (so, not so hot for core gamers as the GC was, not so appealing for the masses as the Wii was) as Fit is a shot in the dark, Pikmin is a good but minor IP, Kart could easily come back to GC level of appreciation (Kart7 is not performing as KartWii or DS too) and we don't know when it will be released; Mario3D could even perform better than expected (as Land on 3DS compared to New Mario 2) but no way it will perform bettern than New Mario U in terms of general LTD numbers; Project X is the spiriutual successor of a beloved game that sold 140K and even imagining it able to double those sales...

That's why Nintendo must work hard in the second part of the year. Or are you really thinking that it's not going to release its main games for the end of the year, and it will leave the Wii U alone in the market with no specific strategy? Come on. We all saw how it worked well with 3DS. Games, but also price-cuts and bundles to sustain sales.

It's also funny to see how your reasoning is working: "Wii Fit sold 3.5mln, but Wii Fit U will not be able to replicate a fraction of its success" and "Xenoblade sold poorly to begin with, so X will sell anyway few copies" and "Mario 3D will sell anyway less than the 2D Mario". I can see being conservative, but then you believe Vita will gain its momentum sooner or later; then there's something biased in your description of future scenario.


Or they'll create a new un-predictable phenomena (aka Sport/Brain) presenting new bundles with a price cut (based on the assumption that the console is perceived as overpriced), otherwise I see them continuing selling like this.

Never underestimate Nintendo in this sense. Of course they should not rely on unpredictable hit, but just look at Animal Crossing and how they could replicate the original success.
And also. until September 2011 3DS was basically screwed. Then they announced MH. For three months later. So why not putting any faith in Nintendo's work, when they showed in the past they were able to turn the things around, and then saying that Vita yes, it will sell in the future?

You said Wii U is not 3DS, and I agree: it's not an handheld. But Vita is not the typical Sony plaftorms.

Bold.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
No one is expecting something on those lines. But look at the 3DS: its main selling point (3D) did not work, but it could manage to become a successful platform. First, it's not that a platform must have a gaming gimmick to become successful (or that it will become successful because of that); second, many other factors enter in the process, such as the one-year advantage, the problems many software houses are having in developing on powerful platforms and so on and so forth.

But do you truly believe that 3DS (Nintendo portable console in Japan among the Japanese-centric portable gaming segment) could be compared to the Wii U (Nintendo Home console in a segment really focused on WW overall situation)?
I know that 3d gimmick wasn't a selling point as strong as they wanted, but it's not the weakness similarity with the Gamepad we are discussing about, but the strenght differences for a possible spin.
 
But do you truly believe that 3DS (Nintendo portable console in Japan among the Japanese-centric portable gaming segment) could be compared to the Wii U (Nintendo Home console in a segment really focused on WW overall situation)?
I know that 3d gimmick wasn't a selling point as strong as they wanted, but it's not the weakness similarity with the Gamepad we are discussing about, but the strenght differences for a possible spin.

I'm not comparing anything. Also because a successful handheld in Japan could sell well above 20mnl, while I would considered an home console successful with half of those units.

But Nintendo has a one-year advantage. Wii U is in the transition between generations, in a period where neither the old platforms (PS3 in this case) nor the new ones (PS4 and Nextbox) will sell really well. It could easily take the spot in this short period if the company works well.

And it already showed it could manage to work well. Price-cut or bundles, colors, million seller games announced few months before the release. It's not something we never saw.
We already saw a quite empty release schedule in the recent past. 3DS was left for months (until Zelda arrived) with Nintendogs, Pilotwings and Steel Diver from Nintendo; I don't know if I conveyed the idea.
 

farnham

Banned
Well, I agree.
I mean: it's not so absurd to think that the Wii U simply is not so interesting for the market, and so even with some new releases it won't twist its momentum.
If we look at it, we see that there will be new releases and those of course could increase the awarness of the console when released, compared to now that there is the desert.
but:

- Wii U concept is not selling as the Wii concept did (the comparison between Sport and the Remote VS Land and the Gamepad is telling us this truth), so Wii U is not a console able to base its success on few long sellers as the Wii was back in the days

- Wii U doesn't have and from what we know will not have for months a constant release of software; and we know how important is in Japan to see a constant flow of games on the shelves.

- Wii U doesn't have a strong and constant third party support, and the internal production will be spread all over the year, so we will probably see just one game per month

- Wii U will have some big hit, as for example the internal softwares developed by Nintendo or big names as DQ that could sell decently as MHTri Ultimate (so, decently considering their hd porting nature, and decently in terms of general numbers compared for example to the main Vita releases; not decently compared to the best performace of those brands of course), but Wii U launched with the most important title of the entire Wii U lifecycle (if we don't include possible surprises as Sport was back in the days, of course. but those are not predictable): a main new Super Mario 2d platformer. If that is not a system seller strong enough to push the HW sales, I cannot figure out any other title capable of spinning the momentum of the console.

Also the GC had the most imporant Nintendo IP back in the days, and it ended up selling just 4 millions in Japan. Up to now, most of those IP are more popular than in the past thanks to the Wii success, but that's obviously not enough as Mario is showing; the third party support is not present up to now; the Gamepad concept is not strong "per sè"; the competitor (PS3) was able to gain momentum over the massess (not saying that it's a success, please note) and probably (if Sony will not tag another absurde price point to its new console) will drag attention (thanks to the brand awarness, thanks to the sequels of beloved games and so on) to the PS4; the portable market with the 3DS is stealing the thunder (especially to a console that tries to aim a similar target as the Wii U is doing)...


I think that the only think that could really change Wii U's destiny could be the fact to be perceived as a really overpriced console. So with a price cut we could see a peak of sales. BUt as explained I think that the issues are (also) others.

The main three issues are marketing, high selling software and price.

They definitely need to. Cut the price by 100$ and need to advertise more and better. As far as games go they have multimillionsellers in the pipeline and i think NSMBU will keep selling as when people are picking up wiiu that game will be one of the go to titles.
 

farnham

Banned
But do you truly believe that 3DS (Nintendo portable console in Japan among the Japanese-centric portable gaming segment) could be compared to the Wii U (Nintendo Home console in a segment really focused on WW overall situation)?
I know that 3d gimmick wasn't a selling point as strong as they wanted, but it's not the weakness similarity with the Gamepad we are discussing about, but the strenght differences for a possible spin.

The 3ds is significantly weaker than vita in terms of power. so the comparison is valid. Unlike 3ds i also think that the gamepad will have appeal to the general audience in the future (as it is significantly better for communities like miiverse for example)
 
DQ7 - http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B009Z5XKJO/

Sold out on Amazon, new stock on Feb 10.


Sounds good i think i had the highest prediction on that one in prediction league :D



And it already showed it could manage to work well. Price-cut or bundles, colors, million seller games announced few months before the release. It's not something we never saw.
We already saw a quite empty release schedule in the recent past. 3DS was left for months (until Zelda arrived) with Nintendogs, Pilotwings and Steel Diver from Nintendo; I don't know if I conveyed the idea.

Sure if Nintendo is willing to take few hundreds milions USD loses on hardware from pricut.
 

extralite

Member
The 3ds is significantly weaker than vita in terms of power. so the comparison is valid. Unlike 3ds i also think that the gamepad will have appeal to the general audience in the future (as it is significantly better for communities like miiverse for example)

Good point and I think an even better reference point than the 3DS would be the original DS. Against the PSP many people thought Sony would take even the handheld market (obviously that was deluded from the beginning because of Pokemon and the age segment handhelds most appeal too). But what made DS popular with an older audience and not right out of the door was the second screen and what it made possible.

With the 3DS Nintendo shifted away from the market they built with the DS and ventured more into something Sony would (or did) bet on, 3D, and its appeal wasn't as great as expected, for both companies. Still I see it as a selling point for some, it certainly doesn't hurt to have 3D.

Now Wii U could catch the casual/mature market again with the tablet functionality. Of course you don't need a second (and inferior) tablet if you already have one, but what if it's also your tv magazine, remote control and smart TV? And what if you don't have a tablet yet but also like console gaming? If these kind of expanded audience features could sell a handheld to older customers (many of which had fond memories of the Famicom) why not also a console?

I also think Nintendo will not lower the Wii U price anytime soon unless Sony gives them heat like they did with the Vita price. And that is quite unlikely. With a more expensive PS4 on the shelves the Wii U could actually become more appealing to some customers because then it will be perceived as inexpensive in comparison. Even better if they can build good word of mouth until then.

I expect bundles though.
 

VAPitts

Member
The main three issues are marketing, high selling software and price.

They definitely need to. Cut the price by 100$ and need to advertise more and better. As far as games go they have multimillionsellers in the pipeline and i think NSMBU will keep selling as when people are picking up wiiu that game will be one of the go to titles.

i can't believe u seriously think Nintendo will cut the price this soon
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
The 3ds is significantly weaker than vita in terms of power. so the comparison is valid. Unlike 3ds i also think that the gamepad will have appeal to the general audience in the future (as it is significantly better for communities like miiverse for example)

It's not a matter of power. especially if you talk about poprtable ecosystem.
it's a matter of being able to offer constant releases for an audience.
Wii was able to sell "per sè", because people wanted to play tennis with the remote.
Wii U is way more normal than the Wii, thus it should have a concrete lineup to be appealing.
3DS had/has a concrete lineup of possible game that can be bit hits on the Japanese market, not only first party but also third. Wii U will have almost zero support (the only third party news we got this year? rayman and Ninja gaiden becoming multi, but in the "wrong" way LOL)
 

donny2112

Member
have you forgotten the 3DS?

The 3DS that was selling for a profit and then cut 10K Yen/$80 to shift to making losses on the hardware until after the more expensive XL version was put out

compared to

the Wii U that is already selling for a loss and that Nintendo aims to have as part of a 100 Billion Yen operating profit in the next fiscal year?

Maybe you don't appreciate the difference in situation here. Nintendo "learned" from the 3DS to price the Wii U closer to cost to keep the cost (relatively) down. That's left them in a not-good position when it comes to the prospect of a price cut. I'm still hoping for a 5K Yen/$50 price cut in August, but even that's questionable. $100 price cut seems like fantasy.

Then again, maybe ...
ST3_reality_zpsd08b3d20.jpg

ST3_fantasy_zpsa1b76fc4.jpg


Yes, just wanted an excuse to post that. :p
 

muu

Member
the 3DS price cut did set a nasty precedent. It's very difficult to see the value in the gamepad until you've really played with the system, and they didn't quite shape the thing right to appeal to the folks looking for a tablet.
 

Fredrik

Member
i can't believe u seriously think Nintendo will cut the price this soon
They have to. As it is it's the only way to turn it around, games are coming but they're too far away. It might be too late already. It's going down too fast. They should sell it for $249 bundled with NSMBU and an extra Wiimote and nunchuk, advertize it like crazy everuwhere, TV, radio, website banners, sports events, newspapers, etc, and simply take the loss and hope the console survive long enough to start making money from it by the middle of the generation. The current path only leads to total failure.
 

Box

Member
Does Nintendo have the flexibility to cut the price? I think that a ~$100 price cut as the new releases start to ramp up could go a long way toward gaining sales, but it wouldn't make them much money. I'm not sure how much Nintendo can afford to lose on the hardware if they also have that 100 billion yen income target for the next fiscal year. Can they even afford a pricecut at all? I don't think they can hang at $350 next to a $400 PS4.
 
Iwata has promised a 100 billion Yen operating profit next FY, they aren't going to be cutting the Wii U's price.

Unless of course, the price cut happens this FY(before April 1). Taking the loss up front for it could explain the operating profit.
 

donny2112

Member
They have to. As it is it's the only way to turn it around, games are coming but they're too far away. It might be too late already. It's going down too fast.

Price cut now does nothing much except increase losses. Wait for a game being sold that people may want to buy since it's with a price cut. Wii Fit U seems the next major game that might fit that billing. No, it is not "too late" already (at least for Japan; With the Ubisoft comments/actions, Western support seems already gone, if it was ever even there ...).
 

Dalthien

Member
Iwata has promised a 100 billion Yen operating profit next FY, they aren't going to be cutting the Wii U's price.

Unless of course, the price cut happens this FY(before April 1). Taking the loss up front for it could explain the operating profit.

That would take care of the loss on the existing stock at retail (which would definitely help with next year's numbers). But the loss would still be there on all new units sold to retail in the next FY. It really just depends how quickly the manufacturing cost comes down. They can't cut the price if they're still losing money per unit at the original price point. I still think the most likely scenario is a SKU reshuffling where the premium is dropped to $300 (with the basic model being axed), but the bundling included is changed in order to help minimize losses per unit.
 

Fredrik

Member
Price cut now does nothing much except increase losses. Wait for a game being sold that people may want to buy since it's with a price cut. Wii Fit U seems the next major game that might fit that billing. No, it is not "too late" already (at least for Japan; With the Ubisoft comments/actions, Western support seems already gone, if it was ever even there ...).
Sony might announce PS4 in just over a week and Nintendo is supposed to wait for Wii Fit U to be released to help selling WiiU? :/
 
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