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[cosmicblizzard]

this entire article is fucking garbage.

they're right, it's not that japan's games have changed, that's the root of the problem. they haven't changed and the west continues to evolve and get better and better. at this point, we are so much better, the japanese game industry has no one to blame but themselves.

so let japan to be stubborn and refuse to change, that seems to be the only thing they're good at. and i am especially proud of the fact that western countries refuse to accept this fucking 'moe' or lolishit. call it whatever you want, but it is borderline pedophilia in disguise.

:/

 

[RoboPlato]

Just looking at my game collection this gen compared to previous ones it is pretty telling that somethimg has changed in Japanese development. I used to have nearly all Japanese developed titles and now I only have a handful. Many of those Japanese games are also very western in influence (Demon's Souls, Shadows of the Damned, Vanquish, etc). Japanese studios have not been able to produce at anywhere near the quantity and quality that they used to and it's really saddening. All of the Japanese games I've been looking forward to have been in development hell for years now. I'd love to see Japan bounce back but I really doubt it will happen for a while.

 

[Dresden]

that damn moh-ay ruining games.

 

[ZealousD]

I believe the Rockstar games do really well over there as well.

Grand Theft Auto does about as well as any Western game can. But it's still not close to million seller territory.

 

[NotebookJ2]

Or you know people find this topic interesting and they want to write about it? Is it really that obvious or concrete that Japanese games are the same as they have always been and they don't need to change to match certain western design. Western games weren't always amazing. They changed to match certain Japanese designs.

Maybe I'm just way too overly cynical and tired from these types of discussions over the years, but I seriously don't think this won't really get any actual discussion done aside from the typical "oh japan!!!!11111132" posts, regardless of the actual intention of the writer. Some interesting things can be gotten from talking about this, but I often find it's too riddled with too many people obsessed with the good ol' days to get any sort of decent conversation done.

In fact, I was going to post something about the disturbing trend of nationalism that tends to be behind many a JRPG vs. WRPG topic elsewhere, but I just can't do it now due to my hands being weird tonight.

And on a sidenote, the CoD series does have a somewhat niche following in Japan.

 

[7Th]

that damn moh-ay ruining games.

Fucking bug-eyed runts are ruining my JRPGs, I tell yah.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It's more like PC devs brought to consoles the things they had been doing for years and a lot of people think that's new because they ignored PC gaming.

Well, it isn't gamers fault that it took 2 decades for MS to come out with a decent OS.

 

[Calcaneus]

I can't help but to think this is nothing more than an article to get some stupid Japanese vs. Western war riled up again.

I already have to deal with this crap as a JRPG fan, there's no need to make it worse. Why can't we just learn to get along and accept that people from different regions may have different things they like? And that not everyone in a certain region likes the same types of game, so you can have a Japanese person love dudebro shooters and an American person love their moe dating sims?

It seems like such a simple concept that people on both sides just can't seem to get through their thick skulls. It's like some sort of pissing war between the region's most obnoxious fanboys.

I thought it was pretty even handed. It was pretty much saying that Japanese games haven't gotten worse, they're just different now and in different places than before.

 

[CornBurrito]

this entire article is fucking garbage.

they're right, it's not that japan's games have changed, that's the root of the problem. they haven't changed and the west continues to evolve and get better and better. at this point, we are so much better, the japanese game industry has no one to blame but themselves

THEY HAVE DIFFERENT TASTES WHICH ARE CLEARLY INFERIOR BECAUSE I DISLIKE THEM!!!!

That seems both arrogant and ignorant all at the same time.

And as Zeal has just proven, arrogance and ignorance exist in both the East and the West.

 

[speedpop]

I don't get the complaints about Japanese gaming becoming more handheld based. Are people so allergic to the notion of playing something on a smaller screen?

And using the "you can't get 'epic' games on a handheld!" excuse is tame and ignorant.

 

[Derrick01]

Zing!

He's not exactly wrong. They brought their talents to consoles for sure, but most of them made games that were dumbed down compared to their past PC stuff.

But I'm definitely one of the people who had their eyes opened since I ignored PC up until this gen. What a fool I was.

 

[Riposte]

so let japan to be stubborn and refuse to change, that seems to be the only thing they're good at.

lol okay.

EDIT: Oh, probably sarcasm though.

 

[Azar]

I can't help but to think this is nothing more than an article to get some stupid Japanese vs. Western war riled up again.

I already have to deal with this crap as a JRPG fan, there's no need to make it worse. Why can't we just learn to get along and accept that people from different regions may have different things they like? And that not everyone in a certain region likes the same types of game, so you can have a Japanese person love dudebro shooters and an American person love their moe dating sims?

It seems like such a simple concept that people on both sides just can't seem to get through their thick skulls. It's like some sort of pissing war between the region's most obnoxious fanboys.

If you actually read the feature you'd notice that it is the absolute opposite of a pissing war. It's an examination of a cultural divide and how that effects the shape an economics of a whole industry. Don't dismiss it with a generic "different strokes" attitude.

 

[Emitan]

Japanese games would probably be more popular here if westerners gave a shit about handhelds, beside giving them to their children so they'll sit still in restaurants. There are so few western devs making good handheld games, and that's where a majority of Japanese development has gone to.

 

[Pyrokai]

This thread makes me weep.


To all those who enjoy Japanese games, don't live in Japan, and can't speak/read Japanese, do you find this news extremely disheartening? I do. At least, I will if these games aren't localized in English.....not all.....just most. Please, publishers?

 

[chickdigger802]

Fucking bug-eyed runts are ruining my JRPGs, I tell yah.

Your avatar is the solution.

Penguins will be the survival strategy for japanese and western peace!

 

[Emitan]

This thread makes me weep.


To all those who enjoy Japanese games, don't live in Japan, and can't speak/read Japanese, do you find this news extremely disheartening? I do. At least, I will if these games aren't localized in English.....not all.....just most. Please, publishers?

Yes, I do. I wish I could read Japanese. If it was a romance language like Spanish or French, or even germanic I would definitely have learned it by now. But the language is too complex, and in the end, I'm not sure it's worth it.

 

[speedpop]

He's not exactly wrong. They brought their talents to consoles for sure, but most of them made games that were dumbed down compared to their past PC stuff.

But I'm definitely one of the people who had their eyes opened since I ignored PC up until this gen. What a fool I was.

Don't worry, I agree with him. Been playing on the grandfather of PCs since I was a kid and never stopped. It's just that I managed to play all sorts of consoles and handhelds at the same time so it's a little funny to see the evolution of it all.

 

[Rikkun]

The moe thing is pretty silly (Yes, the visuals and theme wouldn't fly in the west, but even with a complete overhaul, the gameplay would still crash outside of Japan), but I do agree with xenophobia and isolationism being a real problem for game development in Japan.

And they forgot the biggest heavy hitting PC franchise that changed gaming this gen: Call of Duty.

I'd pay money to convert my copy oh Hyperdimension Neptunia in a moe-free game.

I never had a problem with anime, mangas, hentai or whatsoever but this game is reeeeeally embarassing to play, even if I'm alone. And I never felt this way with FF, Bayonetta, NMH etc.

 

[Emitan]

I don't get the complaints about Japanese gaming becoming more handheld based. Are people so allergic to the notion of playing something on a smaller screen?

And using the "you can't get 'epic' games on a handheld!" excuse is tame and ignorant.

Maybe it's because everyone uses huge ass TVs. My tv is only 24" so I have no problem with "small screens". I'd love to see what gaming on a big TV is like.

 

[Zeal]

if Japan would give us more examples like Demon's/Dark Souls, they would be neck-and-neck with western development. This series has amazing universal appeal, but keeps the strong gameplay elements that japanese games used to be known for. More quality and innovation, not loli.

 

[Arklite]

All I know is Japan can do third person shooters better than the West, they can make CG cutscenes as good as Blizzard, and at least their JRPGs aren't as bug fests like Western RPGs.

Also, I don't get the hate for games like RE5, LP2, or MGS4. The only thing 'wrong' is that their mechanics or writing are "too Japanese." That's not a fault.

 

[Riposte]

if Japan would give us more examples like Demon's/Dark Souls, they would be neck-and-neck with western development. This series has amazing universal appeal, but keeps the strong gameplay elements that japanese games used to be known for. More quality and innovation, not loli.

Few major games feature much "loli".

 

[erpg]

This thread makes me weep.


To all those who enjoy Japanese games, don't live in Japan, and can't speak/read Japanese, do you find this news extremely disheartening? I do. At least, I will if these games aren't localized in English.....not all.....just most. Please, publishers?

I'm learning so I can read light novels. I'll get back to you on that progress in a few years.

But that doesn't change the fact that many Japanese games shouldn't be released here. Ever. Not because they can be silly or sexual (Ar Tonelico) but because they're so behind on game mechanics, environment layout, graphics, interface clarity, controls that they're honestly a burden to play.

Polished franchises like Tales though, I'll never understand why they don't do limited runs. Give it to Atlus, at least, jeez.

 

[Brobzoid]

I don't get the complaints about Japanese gaming becoming more handheld based. Are people so allergic to the notion of playing something on a smaller screen?

And using the "you can't get 'epic' games on a handheld!" excuse is tame and ignorant.

Darkstalkers on the PSP doesn't let me plug in my saturn USB controller.

 

[Lucentto]

Maybe it's because everyone uses huge ass TVs. My tv is only 24" so I have no problem with "small screens". I'd love to see what gaming on a big TV is like.

It's great at first. But after a while you stop caring. At least it was that way for me.

 

[Beth Cyra]

if Japan would give us more examples like Demon's/Dark Souls, they would be neck-and-neck with western development. This series has amazing universal appeal, but keeps the strong gameplay elements that japanese games used to be known for. More quality and innovation, not loli.

This is stretching it for Demon Souls as it stands it put off alot of gamers because of it's design and it didn't sell that well, it did alright and certainly better then Sony were expecting in the west but still it wasn't anything that had real universal appeal.

Maybe Dark Souls can do it but at this point I wouldn't say it's extremely likely.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

This thread makes me weep.


To all those who enjoy Japanese games, don't live in Japan, and can't speak/read Japanese, do you find this news extremely disheartening? I do. At least, I will if these games aren't localized in English.....not all.....just most. Please, publishers?

The thread makes me weep for that reason in addition to the hostile ignorance (the two kind of go hand in hand). I'm not going to say Japanese gaming is better than ever, but it's stable and if people would look outside the typical "AAA" stuff, I can almost guarantee anyone hating on Japan in this generation would find something to love.

 

[CornBurrito]

if Japan would give us more examples like Demon's/Dark Souls, they would be neck-and-neck with western development. This series has amazing universal appeal, but keeps the strong gameplay elements that japanese games used to be known for. More quality and innovation, not loli.

999, Ace Attorney, Layton, Mario Galaxy, Devil Survivor, TWEWY... I could go on.

I don't get the complaints about Japanese gaming becoming more handheld based. Are people so allergic to the notion of playing something on a smaller screen?

And using the "you can't get 'epic' games on a handheld!" excuse is tame and ignorant.

People in the West seem to want that "cinematic" BIG SCREEN experience with the latest graphics (and yet oddly enough they don't bother with PC gaming).

 

[markot]

True, I mean, just look at Nintendo. Its games sell like shit in the west.

 

[Kalnos]

All I know is Japan can do third person shooters better than the West, they can make CG cutscenes as good as Blizzard, and at least their JRPGs aren't as bug fests like Western RPGs.

Opinion, opinion (and more of a product of the times, not as much CG because it's no longer needed), hyperbole.

 

[daffy]

Oh cool I finally ranked up from nooblet while reading.

 

[graywolf323]

that was a pretty bad article...

 

[cosmicblizzard]

if Japan would give us more examples like Demon's/Dark Souls, they would be neck-and-neck with western development. This series has amazing universal appeal, but keeps the strong gameplay elements that japanese games used to be known for. More quality and innovation, not loli.

It's not like loli/moe stuff is a big seller over there outside some very peculiar exceptions.

 

[speedpop]

True, I mean, just look at Nintendo. Its games sell like shit in the west.

Shh! They are not supposed to be mentioned in these threads!

 

[Ether_Snake]

The games themselves are as good as they've ever been, but they're just not made for the entire world anymore. Japanese games are now by and large made to appeal almost exclusively to Japanese gamers.

That is such bullshit. The fact is Japan used to produce most games, and the Western studios produced mostly crap. The Western studios grew, evolved, became better, while Japan didn't change.

Japan never made games "for the entire world", it was just the rest of the world that wasn't even trying to take its place in that market.

Eventually the market became more interesting to invest in as technology evolved and opened up the doors for increased revenue.

Japan lost its share, and Japan lost its market share because they didn't figure out why they had it to begin with.

 

[TheShampion]

This article is actually pretty good at outlining the stereotypes and the the big picture, and I think it is a good start to understanding the cultural split, but it wanders into "stereotypes as truth" a little too closely for my comfort.

It is true that adults in Japan generally do not identify themselves as "gamers" but in my experience, it is more that they just don't really have the time anymore than any sort of social stigma. It is the big reason you will see a lot of Nintendo products here in Japan advertise with "簡単！”("easy!") all over the place. No one has the time to really invest in games anymore. I have heard from a lot of people that they enjoyed games back in the day, but having a family just made them less of a priority. I don't think anyone is going to look down to an adult playing Tomodachi Collection or Rhythm Tengoku. Japanese people might certainly may look down on you if you play moe dating game #47, but hell, I have seen people read porn on the train, so that is not that big a deal.

Also, Western games in turn are not popular because they are frequently poorly advertised and translated. It is like wondering my the Castle Shikigami games do poorly in the west and blaming cultural bias. It is getting better, but it is gonna take more than one console generation to get over things like "I sure would like to play this Madden game, but too bad they never translated the English." If that kind of shit happened in the US, you bet your ass that there would be a bias towards Japanese games.

I think Japanese games don't work like they did for the same reason games like STALKER aren't percieved as mainstream games; they are made for a specific market. The only reason why Japanese games were so popular back then was because that is all people had. Now that the video games space has gotten more worldly, maybe we can get niches that are even more international.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

I do enjoy the odd Persona games, stuff from Nintendo, and some of Capcom's offerings.

But, seriously?
Konami? What the fuck happened?! SotN, MGS, RR, SC, AC, MOTHERFUCKING SUIKODEN?! When was the last time they released anything relevant? MGS:R hasn't seen the light of day, and their next releases are HD remixes...what the hell is the team doing?!
Sega? Sonic is DEAD! Altered Beast? Dead! Shenmue? Dead! Valkyrie Chronicles should be successful, but it's likely gonna die. Is there ANYTHING coming out from them that's worth the watch?
SE has had some successes recently, but a lot of those successes were from Western developers. All their Japanese stuff has been shit. I'm sorry, but FUCK DQMMORPG.
Level 5? WKC was shit! Ni no Kuni...will it ever even been released outside Japan?

Now you compare them vs
Bethesda - Skyrim/FO
Ubisoft - AC
Naughty Dog - Uncharted
Santa Monica Studios - GoW
Activision - CoD
Runic - Torchlight 2
Blizzard - EVERYTHING
EA - Tons of stuff!
TONS upon TONS of indie studios!

It's clear that this generation of developers was heavily influenced and fell in love with games made by the big Japanese studios, but the Japanese games industry is simply stagnant.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The business model for small games in Japan can only be sustained by catering to a small yet rabid fan base that's willing to pay a premium for content. AAA titles normally sell for between the equivalent of $40-$60, while smaller niche titles are usually priced at $80-plus. Small developers make their money by selling less at a higher profit margin, while major publishers sell more for less. If you publish small games in Japan you have to give your fans what you want, and since your fans are otaku who revel in moe, you'll give them games filled with the characters that elicit that response -- which are usually young, childlike girls.

This part is also not true from what i notice for years , Japanese AAA games were never cheap they cost a huge amount of money just look the price of any FF , DQ , MGS , RE , Tales etc etc .

 

[jett]

This article is filled with clichés.

I think I'll make a point to remember who wrote it so I don't waste my time again.

 

[vocab]

Zing!

Yup. Maybe if Japanese devs would get their heads out of their ass, and invest into some steam titles they could easily make some money. Enough of this all in 360 exclusive JRPG shit.

 

[Zeal]

That is such bullshit. The fact is Japan used to produce most games, and the Western studios produced mostly crap. The Western studios grew, evolved, became better, while Japan didn't change.

Japan never made games "for the entire world", it was just the rest of the world that wasn't even trying.

Japan lost its market share because they didn't figure out why they had it to begin with.

flawless victory.

 

[kokujin]

It's more like PC devs brought to consoles the things they had been doing for years and a lot of people think that's new because they ignored PC gaming.

True, very true.

Japan has been on this decline since the mid 90's, to be fair though, western games aren't exactly much better.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

That is such bullshit. The fact is Japan used to produce most games, and the Western studios produced mostly crap. The Western studios grew, evolved, became better, while Japan didn't change.

Japan never made games "for the entire world", it was just the rest of the world that wasn't even trying.

Japan lost its market share because they didn't figure out why they had it to begin with.

Is the output of western studios really better than it was? Aren't just PC developers now making games for consoles?

 

[NotebookJ2]

If you actually read the feature you'd notice that it is the absolute opposite of a pissing war. It's an examination of a cultural divide and how that effects the shape an economics of a whole industry. Don't dismiss it with a generic "different strokes" attitude.

Okay, after actually reading the article, it's not as bad as I feared. Though oddly, a lot of this stuff I was kinda aware of.

I still stand by that there's a disturbing nationalist bent to this coast war on both sides that tends to come in the comments of this articles, and that's something I won't stand for regardless of who is spewing it out. [which is not the article obviously]

Yeah, I know lol comments and all but still.

 

[Megidolaon]

I've yet to read the whole article, but I just wanna chime in before I do. I totally 1000000% agree with the moe part. It's such an enormous turnoff. It has really escalated it seems in recent years and it's quite disappointing.

I still love many Japanese series (Zelda, Persona) but I find myself repulsed by so many of them because of this incessant fetish pandering be it the character designs or the content.

I wish someone would translate this article and spread the word to all J-devs wanting sales overseas.

 

[Kalnos]

That is such bullshit. The fact is Japan used to produce most games, and the Western studios produced mostly crap. The Western studios grew, evolved, became better, while Japan didn't change.

gog.com. Yeah, I think the west has been making good games for a loooong time. This is ignoring the fallacy that the west use to produce 'mostly crap' when referring to consoles.

 

[Nirolak]

Is the output of western studios really better than it was? Aren't just PC developers now making games for consoles?

Yeah, I mean the most successful developers today (Infinity Ward, Bethesda, BioWare, Epic, DICE, Blizzard, Valve, etc) are pretty much the same developers who were successful in the 90's and very early 2000's on PC.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Japanese devs are far behind when comes to consoles and with handhelds selling so good i expect it to be that way also in the future.
Then there only a few publisher that can give them they same budget as the west .
Japanese games are still made on the cheap .
I still enjoy Japanese but the gen it really show how far behind they were on the tech side and how less important console gaming is to them.

We all love technically impressive games, but look at all the Western devs that have died this generation. Fighting to stay relevant from a tech perspective is near suicide unless you manage to get a hit. Just a few days ago an article was released mentioning that Max Payne 3 would need to sell 4 million copies just to break even. There are developers in Japan happy about selling 100-200k copies. Japanese devs have managed to find real success on HD consoles (mainly the PS3) without killing themselves in the process. They're also able to do it with disc based games while you see many Western developers moving to downloadable titles because it's so hard to gain any attention for a disc based product unless you're working on some well known series.

Japanese developers get a lot of shit this gen, but if you look at the rate of studio closures it makes you wonder if they actually have the healthier business model.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I do enjoy the odd Persona games, stuff from Nintendo, and some of Capcom's offerings.

But, seriously?
Konami? What the fuck happened?! SotN, MGS, RR, SC, AC, MOTHERFUCKING SUIKODEN?! When was the last time they released anything relevant? MGS:R hasn't seen the light of day, and their next releases are HD remixes...what the hell is the team doing?!
Sega? Sonic is DEAD! Altered Beast? Dead! Shenmue? Dead! Valkyrie Chronicles should be successful, but it's likely gonna die. Is there ANYTHING coming out from them that's worth the watch?
SE has had some successes recently, but a lot of those successes were from Western developers. All their Japanese stuff has been shit. I'm sorry, but FUCK DQMMORPG.
Level 5? WKC was shit! Ni no Kuni...will it ever even been released outside Japan?

Now you compare them vs
Bethesda - Skyrim/FO
Ubisoft - AC
Naughty Dog - Uncharted
Santa Monica Studios - GoW
Activision - CoD
Runic - Torchlight 2
Blizzard - EVERYTHING
EA - Tons of stuff!
TONS upon TONS of indie studios!

It's clear that this generation of developers was heavily influenced and fell in love with games made by the big Japanese studios, but the Japanese games industry is simply stagnant.

Half the games you listed like MOTHER FUCKING Suikoden didn't sell that well in Japan and not so great here, they went away because they are in it to make money.

Also, there are a ton of gamers that would take SE games both western and Japanese over a ton of shit that EA or any other western dev has put out.

And Blizzard has put out 1 game this generation. Listing that as Everything is crazy.