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2019-2020: VR has greatly extended its death

Romulus

Member
To be fair, I never thought VR was ever dying, but I could see the argument. But now, no one can deny the last year has been absolutely huge for the medium's upward swing. This year has extended the medium's life for a long time, if not outright cemented it as a worthy add on for gaming.

VR headsets had their best year ever in 2019, and the Quest, Rift S, and $1000 Index are sold out almost everywhere. Along with the delivery and announcement of a first: consistent AAA games. More AAA games in a 12-month span than all of VR's history, combined.

Today, HTC Vive is firing back hard at Oculus's success, with 4 new variations of the Vive announced today. One is an all-new headset and the other 3 are modified Cosmos if I'm not mistaken. Either way, it shows HTC's dedication to the medium with a massive reinvestment.





Other huge news in the last months.

PSVR2 is confirmed.

Half Life Alyx is VR exclusive and confirmed for March 23. 15-hour long full game.

Valve is working on 2 more unnamed AAA exclusives

Ubisoft is working on AAA exclusive based on a "previously successful IP." Rumors are Splinter Cell and AC

New Medal of Honor is VR only.

Iron Man VR set to launch in May.



If VR ever dies, most of us reading this will be out of the gaming scene by the time it does. Too many companies are reinvesting, too many big-name games, too much evidence of the upward slope of software and hardware. This surge in 2019-2020 has extended its life by years, and by then the headsets will only be cheaper, smaller, more powerful, and with an even large base of games. It's here to stay in my opinion.
 
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Mista

Banned
Sure, let it grow or die. It will always be a secondary in the gaming industry and will never be the number 1 in the scene
If VR ever dies, most of us reading this will be out of the gaming scene by the time it does.
Yeah, relax.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
You are indeed mistaken again, all of the actual products shown today are Cosmos based (so they have little to do with the Quest whose strengths are the stand alone VR capabilities on top of its PC connectivity, Cosmos doesn't offer the former). More overpriced underperforming HTC products (and new threads out of things I post about in the PC VR thread) is meh news, not huge (which is why I didn't make a new thread). They're essentially new (mostly previously announced) face plates and different bundles for Cosmos, a product that rightfully failed to garner interest. One that has the lighthouse tracking face plate and outdated wands yet costs similar to an Index, one with even less tracking cameras than the original Cosmos face plate (which has yet to see any fixes to its own sub par tracking) as some kind of casual player bundle they specified is great for Angry Birds VR and VR videos (which doesn't inspire confidence for the tracking) and one with additional front facing cameras as some kind of AR and MR focused edition. Their only appeal may be availability as the actually good VR kits people wish to purchase like Index and Rift S and Quest are sold out but I'd sooner tell people to wait or buy some discounted WMR kit like the Odyssey than pay so much for HTC's failures. The semi-interesting things they showed were the prototypes of the two small form factor VR kits, one stand alone, one for phones, but they're probably far from reaching consumers given that prototype status and HTC has a lot to prove for their inside out tracking solutions and in general these days, plus they aren't the only company to show small form factor VR goggles, we'll see which one will actually manufacture and sell the first good competitive to the Quest consumer products worth considering. To think that VR is not dying because HTC announced this range of products they had already hinted at when Cosmos was revealed is silly though. HTC could bow out of the VR race today and it wouldn't mean VR is dying, just that unlike other companies HTC failed.
 
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DonF

Member
Vr's biggest problems are the price of entry on the headset and the performance/price of entry on the device you are using to power said headset.
So I believe it will eventually make it. We just need more time. Vive and oculus already have cheaper models and even a model that doesnt requiere a full pc to work.
Also, I believe that ps5 will enhance current vr games and maybe release a new vr headset. And with the price of a ps5 and an affordable headset, vr could thrive.
 

Diddy X

Member
Of course it's not dead, it sells fine and they are not gonna kill it while there are still improvements to be made, that said I'm not buying one anytime soon.
 

Romulus

Member
Sure, let it grow or die. It will always be a secondary in the gaming industry and will never be the number 1 in the scene

Yeah, relax.

I stand by it 110%. 2019 has exponential benefits beyond just extending it a few years. Thats a given. But by the time that extension gets here, headsets will smaller, cheaper, and have a slew more games, extending its life much further than most see. 10-15 imo, with every 3 years seeing big improvements to the medium.
 

Mista

Banned
I stand by it 110%. 2019 has exponential benefits beyond just extending it a few years. Thats a given. But by the time that extension gets here, headsets will smaller, cheaper, and have a slew more games, extending its life much further than most see. 10-15 imo, with every 3 years seeing big improvements to the medium.
Yeah but saying if the VR ever dies it means we would be out of the gaming scene? Too much.
 

Romulus

Member
Yeah but saying if the VR ever dies it means we would be out of the gaming scene? Too much.

I think for most of us that's true. Most that I know here have already been around for a decade or more, another 15 years many will have moved away from it, at least to some capacity.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
I think people get too hung up on the idea of VR replacing regular gaming or not: it doesn’t need to replace regular gaming to be a success or here to stay. I’m still going to want to sit down to a mouse and keyboard for high FPS Doom Eternal, I’m still going to play my switch in bed, and I’m still going to enjoy my VR porn all at the same time.
 

pr0cs

Member
I wish HTC would have created a more worthy successor to the vive, something to actually compete with the Rift or Quest.
I suppose though with the mad Facebook money that would be a difficult fight to win but I can't help but think Oculus has a stranglehold on the mid tier (largest audience).
I love my aged cv1 but I was hoping more from the riftS. I was hoping HTC would push Oculus to have a bigger jump from cv1 to riftS but at this point Oculus doesn't have much to worry about in regards to competition
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
VR's gonna hit critical mass when you can pick up a good headset for $200 or less that'll be able to play proper games without the use of a PC.

I'm thinking sometime next year the platform will start seeing mainstream success. It's still a bit too overpriced and underpowered at the moment.
 

StormCell

Member
I think people get too hung up on the idea of VR replacing regular gaming or not: it doesn’t need to replace regular gaming to be a success or here to stay. I’m still going to want to sit down to a mouse and keyboard for high FPS Doom Eternal, I’m still going to play my switch in bed, and I’m still going to enjoy my VR porn all at the same time.

Sometimes it's not about the new thing replacing the old thing. I'm hoping for a future where the good qualities of VR and the good qualities of traditional gaming merge into the thing that replaces both. Gamepads are okay. Mouse and keyboard is okay. I prefer to imagine a future in gaming where we are able to get closer to gaming experiences than is currently possible today.
 

Vawn

Banned
VR has the potential to be a fantastic fitness tool.

I've been lifting for years, but I've always hated cardio. VR has made it fun with games like Beat Saber and Creed. I also do some Ring Fit Adventure, but that ultimately is significantly less fun than games in VR.
 
VR's gonna hit critical mass when you can pick up a good headset for $200 or less that'll be able to play proper games without the use of a PC.

I'm thinking sometime next year the platform will start seeing mainstream success. It's still a bit too overpriced and underpowered at the moment.

Pushing down price has less to do with mainstream adoption than you may think; different technologies have different price points. Flagship smartphones, PC's, consoles, etc. were never that cheap. It's about the device filling a market niche or causing innovative disruption and making it worth it at whatever price it's being sold at.
 
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Look, it'll happen one day, all i can say is it won't happen for me. I'm immersed enough, tyvm. 3d movies are a cyclical fad, vr is probably something a bit more culturally called for.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
I think VR will fade and return again.

It happens every so often.

The biggest problem with VR as a gaming tool isn't even price, it's convenience and setup.
 

Romulus

Member
I wish HTC would have created a more worthy successor to the vive, something to actually compete with the Rift or Quest.

Me too. These variations they have could close the gap, but it just shows their continued investment in VR. I think it's more of a quick fix until all new hmds hit the market. They're definitely not finished.
 

Wonko_C

Member
VR's gonna hit critical mass when you can pick up a good headset for $200 or less that'll be able to play proper games without the use of a PC.

The Nintendo Switch launched for $300. How could a VR game console launch cheaper than that?
 
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mcjmetroid

Member
Plug in and play? Quest u dont even plug in.........
I would go further.

I think most people who try VR are impressed but not enough for it to replace their TV or gaming experience not that it's meant to. It's kinda like "Wow this is so cool" and they're done lime riding a rollercoaster.

VR needs to get to a point where it is just as easy to setup and as easy to wear as a pair of sunglasses to get proper mainstream attention. We're not even at the stage where the clunky headsets are at a reasonable price so I think it'll be a long time and in that time I feel like people are going to lose interest.

I'm currently not seeing VR as any more than a Wii moment in fact less so because motion control absolutely blew up for a while and is now standard with no fanfare.
VR hasn't had that breakout moment yet.
 

Romulus

Member
I think VR will fade and return again.

It happens every so often.

2015 it should have happened if that's the case. At this point, its waaaay off if 2015 etc VR survived with ease. It lasted another 5 years. This year might easily have added 8-10+ years to its life.

I agree with what someone else said, VR doesnt have to "take over" regular gaming to thrive and grow somewhere between a niche and mass appeal.
 
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Wonko_C

Member
I’m not sure that I’m following. Since when VR is a game console?
What NOLA described would effectively amount to a games console, only it was designed for VR games. I mean such product already exists (Oculus Quest), but it's $400 for the cheapest model (same price as the PS4 was at launch) and not powerful enough to handle big games.

Considering that the cheapest current console goes for $300 (Nintendo Switch), it doesn't make sense for a standalone VR headset to be powerful enough to handle large-scale, graphically intensive games yet be cheaper than the weakest current-gen console.
 
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INC

Member
I would go further.

I think most people who try VR are impressed but not enough for it to replace their TV or gaming experience not that it's meant to. It's kinda like "Wow this is so cool" and they're done lime riding a rollercoaster.

VR needs to get to a point where it is just as easy to setup and as easy to wear as a pair of sunglasses to get proper mainstream attention. We're not even at the stage where the clunky headsets are at a reasonable price so I think it'll be a long time and in that time I feel like people are going to lose interest.

I'm currently not seeing VR as any more than a Wii moment in fact less so because motion control absolutely blew up for a while and is now standard with no fanfare.
VR hasn't had that breakout moment yet.

I cant play a normal fps anymore, they feel dated as fuck, I will agree vr hasnt got a must have game yet, alyx could change that.

For me vr is 100% the future, theres 0 2d games that even interest me now, they have very little to offer in terms of gameplay or tech......yay raytracing.........

No 2d shooter comes close to the feeling of get a quick reload off (that u physically had to do) and actually spinning on someone to get a headshot. U feel like john wick, no mnk 2d fps comes close to that feel, because it's just a analogue movement, compared to a physical one.

Vr needs to create more social experiences that engage the user and viewer outside of vr, take gorn, 1 in vr 1 using a pad, its basic but bridges the gap of feeling solitary in vr.

I will agree it's more of HC early adopter thing atm, and yes alot of vr is just experiences, but theres also games like onward that has proper leagues running, and as milsim style shooter, it's a fantastic 5v5 game, that I can play for hours.
 
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Romulus

Member
I'm currently not seeing VR as any more than a Wii moment in fact less so because motion control absolutely blew up for a while and is now standard with no fanfare.
VR hasn't had that breakout moment yet.

Those are surge products. They sell crazy numbers and die. Kinect did too on a smaller scope and Wii was surge + nintendo branding. VRs sales slope isn't like that.

You probably wonder(like many do) why VR is getting massive games unlike anything seen on kinect or Wii, both of which absolutely crushed VR sales. The reason is the sales is more than numbers. Anyone can look a VR sales graph and tell it's a different animal for investment. Samsung, Ubisoft, Respawn, Sony, Valve, Facebook know that. If it were just Sony, or just Valve, then yeah okay. But its not.
 
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Those are surge products. They sell crazy numbers and die. Kinect did too on a smaller scope and Wii was surge + nintendo branding. VRs sales slope isn't like that.

You probably wonder(like many do) why VR is getting massive games unlike anything seen on kinect or Wii, both of which absolutely crushed VR sales. The reason is the sales is more than numbers. Anyone can look a VR sales graph and tell it's a different animal for investment. Samsung, Ubisoft, Respawn, Sony, Valve, Facebook know that. If it were just Sony, or just Valve, then yeah okay. But its not.

It's also because good developers actually note the potential of VR technology. They simply believe in it and are pushing it because they care about it.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
I cant play a normal fps anymore, they feel dated as fuck, I will agree vr hasnt got a must have game yet, alyx could change that.

For me vr is 100% the future, theres 0 2d games that even interest me now, they have very little to offer in terms of gameplay or tech......yay raytracing.........

No 2d shooter comes close to the feeling of get a quick reload off (that u physically had to do) and actually spinning on someone to get a headshot. U feel like john wick, no mnk 2d fps comes close to that feel, because it's just a analogue movement, compared to a physical one.

Vr needs to create more social experiences that engage the user and viewer outside of vr, take gorn, 1 in vr 1 using a pad, its basic but bridges the gap of feeling solitary in vr.

I will agree it's more of HC early adopter thing atm, and yes alot of vr is just experiences, but theres also games like onward that has proper leagues running, and as milsim style shooter, it's a fantastic 5v5 game, that I can play for hours.

Not to keep comparing it to motion control but your first 3 paragraphs sound very similar to what people were saying about motion control at the time.

"Why would I ever use a controller again? It's so immersive" etc and look Motion control didn't die it's been used WITH VR sets after all but it's become a standard and not something to get excited about.

I feel like I need to rephrase my point. I do think VR will be around always in some shape or form bit customer interest will come and go for it probably depending on what games are released for it at the time.
 

INC

Member
Well there's no conversation then, since you can just say it sounds similar to fad from 8 years ago.

That's that then for you.

This fad is costing sony and valve alot of money then
 

mcjmetroid

Member
Well there's no conversation then, since you can just say it sounds similar to fad from 8 years ago.

That's that then for you.

This fad is costing sony and valve alot of money then
We'll just have to wait and see.
I don't think it's a fad per say. It hasn't been big enough to even reach fad level and again the Wii popularised motion controllers which are STILL being used today.

I think it'll fizzle out and come back strong again, then fizzle out and come back strong.

If we're all agreed that it won't replace a TV for gaming then we have to ask is there room for a secondary system in people's homes?
Initially yes some will buy it for an alternative or for curiosity but then when they release the next model? Or the next model?
Will people's interest hold?

I say no but that's my opinion.
 
Saying VR is secondary to gaming is like saying TV is secondary to gaming. Both are just a medium to be able to SEE your game, VR just allows more immersion. Its the logical next step after TV and it is undoubtedly the future of gaming. After VR will be anime-esque full dive equipment where you literally are in the game ala Log Horizon and SAO.
 

bad guy

as bad as Danny Zuko in gym knickers
I have food, drink and weed to attend to when gaming and can't image using VV (VirtualVision) much. And sometimes the dog comes visit me which I do not want to miss.
 
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Flintty

Member
Saying VR is secondary to gaming is like saying TV is secondary to gaming. Both are just a medium to be able to SEE your game, VR just allows more immersion. Its the logical next step after TV and it is undoubtedly the future of gaming. After VR will be anime-esque full dive equipment where you literally are in the game ala Log Horizon and SAO.
I think it’s fair to say it augments gaming. I love VR but 95% of the games I play are still non VR. I don’t often buy new VR games because I never know what I’m getting. Take a game like NMS though, that I know I love - I know that will be amazing in VR so I didn’t hesitate to double dip for the Steam version. When I do fire up the Rift, I love it. I think I’d use it more if my Xbox supported it though.
 
 
I think it’s fair to say it augments gaming. I love VR but 95% of the games I play are still non VR. I don’t often buy new VR games because I never know what I’m getting. Take a game like NMS though, that I know I love - I know that will be amazing in VR so I didn’t hesitate to double dip for the Steam version. When I do fire up the Rift, I love it. I think I’d use it more if my Xbox supported it though.
95% of the games you play aren't VR is because VR is not currently the main way to consume said games. Before home TV's were mainstream, 95% of the games were consumed through the arcade. Before the arcade spread, 95% of the games were either radio or board games. Before radio was mainstream, 95% of the games was only board games. As technology improves and becomes more available to your average consumer, the medium changes. History, if anything, has proven this.
 

Humdinger

Member
I'm concerned about VR's effect on my eyesight. I'm getting older, and my eyes aren't as strong as they used to be. I can't imagine that having a screen strapped to your face is good for your eyes, long-term. So that's one reason I'd stay away from VR, in addition to the commonly-raised issues (hassle of setup, clunky headset, limited library).
 
I highly recommend people try VR I thought it was going to die until I tried my brothers valve headset thing. It was very immersive and almost made me run into wall when doing some rope swinging thing. Can’t wait to try it with a racing sim.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
I don't agree. I think the improvements are what is actually keeping VR from being able to reach anything close to mass market. There's a bunch of enthusiasts that buy every new VR headset if it offers improvements. But the majority of people tries VR exactly once. If that device is made redundant after two years, they won't buy a new one. Same way that the average user doesn't buy a new TV every two years. It's still very early days for VR in the consumer market and anything you buy today will be old fast. There are basically 1 million additional VR headsets sold each year, with 6 million in 2019, 5 million in 2018, 3.8 million in 2017. That's not exponential growth. That's as linear as it gets and it's mostly based on pricing. It hovers around 1 % of all Steam users, up around 0.6 % since 2017.

Every single VR prediction is wrong. In 2018 sales of VR devices were predicted to increase by 54 % in 2019. What happened? 20 %. Even short term predictions don't work. VR is a niche and it will stay a niche for the next ten years. Simply because the first impression of VR needs to nail it - and not have issues like SDE, cables, motion sickness. Battery life. Having 120 fps displays eats up battery life. That makes the devices heavy. That makes them uncomfortable. Plus they are isolating. They are perfect for singles, but families are not a good use case for VR. Well, unless you want a divorce. :D
 

Wonko_C

Member
I've read plenty stories on reddit where the wife/girlfriend isn't a gamer but ends up hoarding the VR headset to herself. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

Airola

Member
Why do people say this? What actual home VR headsets were around in the past? If you say Virtual Boy, you don't know what VR is or what the Virtual Boy was.

I tried a VR set in 1995 at a video game expo. It was set to play the original Doom.
My cousin had some VR set somewhere between that and 2000 too.
Both on PC.

They were not very good.

There absolutely has been VR sets way before the past decade and I'm not talking about Virtual Boy.

EDIT:
This PDF file has a good list of different VR projects throughout the past 4 decades:
 
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fred

Member
VR won't REALLY take off until Microsoft adopt VR for the NextBox.

Once that happens more big publishers will jump onto VR development with big name franchises. As things are at the moment publishers only have 2 platforms to develop VR games for, once the NextBox (whether it's this one coming or the one after that) has a VR headset you'll see everyone jumping in with VR titles.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
VR won't REALLY take off until Microsoft adopt VR for the NextBox.

Once that happens more big publishers will jump onto VR development with big name franchises. As things are at the moment publishers only have 2 platforms to develop VR games for, once the NextBox (whether it's this one coming or the one after that) has a VR headset you'll see everyone jumping in with VR titles.
Ah I don't know.
I think Microsoft wants to stay away from major peripheral devices after the Kinect.
I mean they could release a headset or make it compatible with another one.

Either way Microsoft are not THAT important to the gaming landscape at this point. If it happens it'll happen with or without the next Xbox.
 
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Sure, let it grow or die. It will always be a secondary in the gaming industry and will never be the number 1 in the scene

Yeah, relax.
This is what people said about 3D graphics, and they were wrong then, just like you could be wrong in the future. (I'm not saying it's either or)
 
I would go further.

I think most people who try VR are impressed but not enough for it to replace their TV or gaming experience not that it's meant to. It's kinda like "Wow this is so cool" and they're done lime riding a rollercoaster.

VR needs to get to a point where it is just as easy to setup and as easy to wear as a pair of sunglasses to get proper mainstream attention. We're not even at the stage where the clunky headsets are at a reasonable price so I think it'll be a long time and in that time I feel like people are going to lose interest.

I'm currently not seeing VR as any more than a Wii moment in fact less so because motion control absolutely blew up for a while and is now standard with no fanfare.
VR hasn't had that breakout moment yet.
It's not possible for people to completely lose interest when the technology is here to stay. It can't fade now because it's too ingrained into enterprise and consumer's lives.

I think it'll fizzle out and come back strong again, then fizzle out and come back strong.
You've put literally no thought behind this argument. It's just a random guess with no reasoning behind it.
 
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