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[Starfield]

NASA’s new space suits are delayed, making a 2024 Moon landing “not feasible”

Building space suits isn’t too easy, NASA’s watchdog found.

www.theverge.com

Basically over 27 different contractors are working on the new space suit design for the lunar mission and NASA spent over 1 Billion USD on it. Even with that in mind there's now a delay in the space suit manufacturing which makes a 2024 moon landing no longer possible.

Meanwhile SpaceX didn't even spend a whole 1 billion $ on the ENTIRE Falcon 9 and Cargo Dragon design....

Elon Musk is now offering NASA to make the spacesuits for them to keep in line with the 2024 date (lmao ain't happening)

 

[AJUMP23]

Been there done that.

 

[Razorback]

Poor Nasa, just go to the Air and Space Museum ask for the old space suits back. I'm sure they'll understand.

 

[Starfield]

Poor Nasa, just go to the Air and Space Museum ask for the old space suits back. I'm sure they'll understand.

its not like they're sending astronauts up to space with 45 year old spacesuits anyways...oh wait

 

[Kilau]

 

[Starfield]

fuck yea

 

[DeepBreath87]

I’m not big in conspiracy theories, but why the hell is it so hard to get back to the moon 60 years later? The computer in my pocket is more powerful than the anything on the Apollo spacecraft. Materials and manufacturing should be better. Name me one other thing technologically we could do 60 years ago that not only isn’t easier today, but we literally don’t seem to be able to do.

How could NASA have gone from among the most competent organizations on earth to unable to make a space suit they already made 60 years ago?

 

[a multicultural team of v]

Hey, at least they are still nailing the at any cost part!

 

[Thaedolus]

I’m not big in conspiracy theories, but why the hell is it so hard to get back to the moon 60 years later? The computer in my pocket is more powerful than the anything on the Apollo spacecraft. Materials and manufacturing should be better. Name me one other thing technologically we could do 60 years ago that not only isn’t easier today, but we literally don’t seem to be able to do.

How could NASA have gone from among the most competent organizations on earth to unable to make a space suit they already made 60 years ago?

We actually don't have the design specs of the vehicles from the 60s anymore, and even if we did there were so many on-the-fly fixes for that shit they'd be totally useless to manufacturers today. It's not like there's old AutoCAD files we can send off to fabricators. To get back to the moon safely, we essentially need to start back at square one because we haven't sent anyone out of LEO for 50 years. You can't just redesign everything overnight, you have to incrementally build it out and test each phase to ensure reliability and safety.

 

[Razorback]

I’m not big in conspiracy theories, but why the hell is it so hard to get back to the moon 60 years later? The computer in my pocket is more powerful than the anything on the Apollo spacecraft. Materials and manufacturing should be better. Name me one other thing technologically we could do 60 years ago that not only isn’t easier today, but we literally don’t seem to be able to do.

How could NASA have gone from among the most competent organizations on earth to unable to make a space suit they already made 60 years ago?

Mostly this I imagine.

 

[strange headache]

The US is spending more money on air conditioning for the military than space exploration. What do you expect?

 

[DeepBreath87]

Mostly this I imagine.

Just for some context, the federal budget in 1968 was $144 billion. In 2020 it was $6.6 trillion. The federal government spends roughly 45x what it did in 1968. The NASA budget was something like $6 billion in 1968. It is $23 billion this year.

 

[Kilau]

The US is spending more money on air conditioning for the military than space exploration. What do you expect?

I expect nothing and I'm still let down.

Just for some context, the federal budget in 1968 was $144 billion. In 2020 it was $6.6 trillion. The federal government spends roughly 45x what it did in 1968. The NASA budget was something like $6 billion in 1968. It is $23 billion this year.

Based on inflation alone, $23b is about $3b in 1968 dollars. So the percentage of budget is misleading but it’s still about half what it was for the first moon shot.

 

[Ownage]

We actually don't have the design specs of the vehicles from the 60s anymore, and even if we did there were so many on-the-fly fixes for that shit they'd be totally useless to manufacturers today. It's not like there's old AutoCAD files we can send off to fabricators. To get back to the moon safely, we essentially need to start back at square one because we haven't sent anyone out of LEO for 50 years. You can't just redesign everything overnight, you have to incrementally build it out and test each phase to ensure reliability and safety.

How in the hell don't folks save - at least at a minimum - design specs for these products. This is a product that changes humanity, and they don't have 'em anymore? Perhaps Santa Claus took them back to the North Pole after nibbling on milk and cookies?

 

[Thaedolus]

How in the hell don't folks save - at least at a minimum - design specs for these products. This is a product that changes humanity, and they don't have 'em anymore? Perhaps Santa Claus took them back to the North Pole after nibbling on milk and cookies?

It’s so much easier than you’d think

 

[Biff]

I expect nothing and I'm still let down.

Based on inflation alone, $23b is about $3b in 1968 dollars. So the percentage of budget is misleading but it’s still about half what it was for the first moon shot.

Yep - I get to the same inflation-adjusted answer.

So back in the 1960s on an apples-to-apples basis NASA was spending double today's budget. And allocating basically 100% of it on the moon vs. what... 10% of the current budget to the moon and the rest on Mars and telescopes and whatever else NASA does. So maybe it's more like 20x the budget in relative terms.

And finally, perhaps the biggest factor: space race vs. Russia made this a national champion issue. Literally the best minds in the country dropped what they were doing to work on this and beat Russia. Whereas today the best minds in the country code algorithms to get teenagers to watch the latest Logan Paul video.

 

[mansoor1980]

why cant they use new suits based on the old design

 

[TonyK]

They went in 1969, what they need 50 years later, 5G trousers?

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Of course they were like that then, they had the reds up their arse. Now? The suits probably arent diverse enough..

 

[sankt-Antonio]

I’m not big in conspiracy theories, but why the hell is it so hard to get back to the moon 60 years later? The computer in my pocket is more powerful than the anything on the Apollo spacecraft. Materials and manufacturing should be better. Name me one other thing technologically we could do 60 years ago that not only isn’t easier today, but we literally don’t seem to be able to do.

How could NASA have gone from among the most competent organizations on earth to unable to make a space suit they already made 60 years ago?

I talked to a guy involved in the EU space program.

In short a big contribution is safety.
Back then having the risk of a spaceship explode was a risk taken. The EU space program asked the engineers to develop a ejection system in case of a fault in the rockets etc.

But it’s not possible to eject (was not possible at the time) people from a rocket because of the g forces etc.

The EU space program with their own rocket etc was scraped (as far as I know).

 

[SJRB]

Just let Elon do it, ffs.

 

[INC]

Because America ran out of nazis to get them back to the moon

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Because America run out of nazis to get them back to the moon

 

[-Minsc-]

And finally, perhaps the biggest factor: space race vs. Russia made this a national champion issue. Literally the best minds in the country dropped what they were doing to work on this and beat Russia. Whereas today the best minds in the country code algorithms to get teenagers to watch the latest Logan Paul video.

Just let Elon do it, ffs.

NASA VS SpaceX! This Sunday, Sunday, Sunday!!! YOU GOTTA BE THERE!!!!!!!!

 

[poppabk]

I’m not big in conspiracy theories, but why the hell is it so hard to get back to the moon 60 years later? The computer in my pocket is more powerful than the anything on the Apollo spacecraft. Materials and manufacturing should be better. Name me one other thing technologically we could do 60 years ago that not only isn’t easier today, but we literally don’t seem to be able to do.

Have you seen modern day Nazi's? I wouldn't trust them to send a package through UPS correctly.

Less sarcastic answer - I would imagine the scope has changed and the suits are being designed with that in mind

 

[VulcanRaven]

I’m not big in conspiracy theories, but why the hell is it so hard to get back to the moon 60 years later? The computer in my pocket is more powerful than the anything on the Apollo spacecraft. Materials and manufacturing should be better. Name me one other thing technologically we could do 60 years ago that not only isn’t easier today, but we literally don’t seem to be able to do.

How could NASA have gone from among the most competent organizations on earth to unable to make a space suit they already made 60 years ago?

It wouldn't make sense to use technology from the 60s today. Also they don't want to take risks.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

The problem is you have 27 fucking contractors working on 1 damn space suit. Completely inefficient. No, 1 company might not produce the best design possible, but they'll have enough organizational efficiencies to create it in less time than this is taking, and for less than $1B. They've been developing new spacesuits for 14 fucking years...14! This is being handled as poorly as the SLS project.

Holy shit, NASA is a dumpster fire. A bunch of smart people, but they're burdened by a mountain of bureaucracy and arcane processes. Seriously, this is a case where SpaceX would definitely design something better and faster. There is no excuse for not being able to come up with a working design in17 years. None at all. This project has failed, plain and simple. Cut your losses, and commission SpaceX to complete it. They're the most competent company in the space business. NASA has really become a major disappointment with the Artemis program. The whole reason the project keeps getting adjusted by new administrations is because NASA can't make enough progress to justify sticking with one goal.

NASA needs to be restructured. I don't agree with cutting their funding, but they need a major restructuring. The way they currently do things is plainly flawed. SpaceX has exposed their inefficiencies. We're going to get a science fiction film space ship into orbit from SpaceX years before NASA can finish a goddamn space suit. Fuck me, that's depressing.

 

[German Hops]

Fuck me, that's depressing.

It is depressing.

But maybe NASA isn't the organization its often esteemed to be. NASA had three fatal rocket mistakes, with brand new ones, when Russia uses old ones and has had no mistakes. NASA also once ignored bolt makers and launched a rocket, and people died.

It's up to the private sector now.

 

[jason10mm]

I took a look at the current prototype and as expected some danger haired feminist type is leading the project...

hang on, I think I can wait till 2025 for this

 

[Gp1]

Just to put things in perspective, i believe they developed the old Apollo 7-14 suit without CAD, advancements in prototyping, project management, agile, textiles etc etc etc in about 5 years. From basic requirements to first flight.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Well, I'd rather have them in a working suit and wait a year.

 

[Thaedolus]

It is depressing.

But maybe NASA isn't the organization its often esteemed to be. NASA had three fatal rocket mistakes, with brand new ones, when Russia uses old ones and has had no mistakes. NASA also once ignored bolt makers and launched a rocket, and people died.

It's up to the private sector now.

That's not...really how it happened. When the Russians make an almost totally reusable vehicle system 40 years ago we can talk about their tech. Also, google Vladimir Komarov

 

[VulcanRaven]

That's not...really how it happened. When the Russians make an almost totally reusable vehicle system 40 years ago we can talk about their tech. Also, google Vladimir Komarov

Soyuz (rocket family) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Gp1]

Different approaches to the same problem, and the Soyuz is a great example of tried and true design, reliability, etc...

But again, to put things in perspective...

 

[GeekyDad]

So...tell me again why we're revisiting the moon? Are we somehow gonna transplant our problems there? Move Covid there? Build new gas chambers for a new genocide?

I don't follow.

 

[rofif]

3 more years and they ALREADY know they cannot design 5 suits ?!

 

[Thaedolus]

Soyuz (rocket family) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I’m well aware of Soyuz…?

 

[Spaceman292]

tbf the old approach led to a lot of people exploding

 

[Droxcy]

Too much data collection now a days. It’s good so you can keep people safe and kill any sort of risks. But i’m sure there some astronauts on earth currently that would be down to do it and they honestly should. Imagine 4K footage from the moon looking at earth that’d be mind blowing.

 

[navii]

After every camping trip I am an expert. The next year I forget almost everything and need to start from scratch.

Now imagine decades have passed and the trip is way more complex and now I'm retired and it's my son who has to go in this camping trip.

 

[Woody Nvincible]

After every camping trip I am an expert. The next year I forget almost everything and need to start from scratch.

Now imagine decades have passed and the trip is way more complex and now I'm retired and it's my son who has to go in this camping trip.

Not to insult your camping trips, but that's not an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Lupingosei]

You act like if space flight was still NASA's main focus. It is a political institution and as such it has tons of equity, inclusion, and other boards with no connection to space flight.

The budget is getting eaten by all this stuff, look at the cost explosion at universities and how those staff positions exploded.

And of course, nothing gets done anymore, it is more important who is going to the moon than how and with what equipment.

 

[Thaedolus]

Not to insult your camping trips, but that's not an apples to apples comparison.

It’s not but it’s also a fairly good analogy. I’ve had to go back through old design files from the early oughts and 90s at one of the largest medical device manufacturers in the world and it was a nightmare. That’s a company with a full QMS and document control system that was…all paper until about 10 years ago. All the old files had to be scanned in, they weren’t as organized as originally done because the people scanning them in didn’t necessarily know what they were scanning, none of the original engineers that worked on the stuff were around anymore, etc. It was like doing digital archeology, and that’s only 20-25 years back. Now imagine trying to go back and look at the shit people were doing in the 60s? It’s going to be completely foreign to today’s engineers. It’s not surprising in the slightest they’re starting back at square one if you’ve ever dealt with this kind of stuff before

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

More proof you can't get past the dome. Lol jk.

But seriously, why can't they use or buy other recent suits from earlier models or other countries at worst?

Why do they specifically need this suit?

 

[Thaedolus]

More proof you can't get past the dome. Lol jk.

But seriously, why can't they use or buy other recent suits from earlier models or other countries at worst?

Why do they specifically need this suit?

 

[Cockles & Whelks]

The problem is you have 27 fucking contractors working on 1 damn space suit. Completely inefficient. No, 1 company might not produce the best design possible, but they'll have enough organizational efficiencies to create it in less time than this is taking, and for less than $1B. They've been developing new spacesuits for 14 fucking years...14! This is being handled as poorly as the SLS project.

Holy shit, NASA is a dumpster fire. A bunch of smart people, but they're burdened by a mountain of bureaucracy and arcane processes. Seriously, this is a case where SpaceX would definitely design something better and faster. There is no excuse for not being able to come up with a working design in17 years. None at all. This project has failed, plain and simple. Cut your losses, and commission SpaceX to complete it. They're the most competent company in the space business. NASA has really become a major disappointment with the Artemis program. The whole reason the project keeps getting adjusted by new administrations is because NASA can't make enough progress to justify sticking with one goal.

NASA needs to be restructured. I don't agree with cutting their funding, but they need a major restructuring. The way they currently do things is plainly flawed. SpaceX has exposed their inefficiencies. We're going to get a science fiction film space ship into orbit from SpaceX years before NASA can finish a goddamn space suit. Fuck me, that's depressing.

I'd love to see the headcount of Project Managers Vs actual Engineers.

 

[Sakura]

How much time and money does it cost to make a fucking space suit?
It's not like space suits don't already exist. And why are there so many contractors? What a mess.

 

[Keihart]

I think the problem is in that this is actually rocket science...

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

I’m not big in conspiracy theories, but why the hell is it so hard to get back to the moon 60 years later? The computer in my pocket is more powerful than the anything on the Apollo spacecraft. Materials and manufacturing should be better. Name me one other thing technologically we could do 60 years ago that not only isn’t easier today, but we literally don’t seem to be able to do.

How could NASA have gone from among the most competent organizations on earth to unable to make a space suit they already made 60 years ago?

same reason the moon “rang like a bell” when we landed on it

 

[MastaKiiLA]

How much time and money does it cost to make a fucking space suit?
It's not like space suits don't already exist. And why are there so many contractors? What a mess.

Because NASA is publicly-funded, Congress can't help but meddle. Instead of aiming for efficiency, NASA has to ensure that jobs are created in the districts of certain Congressmen and Senators, just to make sure they keep the funds flowing. It's why the epic boondoggle that is the SLS is still set to fly, eventhough it's crazy over budget and way behind schedule. People in Congress would literally rather waste more billions to keep jobs in their districts/states, than fund a competent design. The mind boggles at what SpaceX could do with the amount of money that's been wasted on SLS. We could've probably funded a moon base already.