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[hadareud]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=796&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=0

Mark Rein
VP
Epic Games

"I think it's a very good strategy given the potential competitive landscape. They get a lower priced version for people who are more cost-conscious and an everything-you-need-for-online-gaming version for those who want the full experience. Developers were always told not to expect a hard drive on every machine so nobody has developed with the assumption it will be there.

"Developers already got our big Xbox 360 gift - we got 512MB of RAM. That was a huge win for developers and customers alike and there was no way we were going to get that and a hard drive on every machine. The RAM is more important and will make a bigger difference than the hard drive would have. There will be lots of great reasons why you'd want to buy the hard drive and it will be available as an upgrade so nobody is selling themselves short if they can't afford the all-options version because they can buy those options a-la-carte (for more money mind you) if needed.

CS Weaver
Founder
Bethesda Softworks
Also Visiting Scholar at M.I.T

"The idea of selling a $299 'basic' (read crippled) version of the new Xbox may make for minor bragging rights and a little press, but it is akin to buying a Ferrari F430 only to find that while the car is beautiful and has a powerful engine, the model you bought lacks a transmission capable of getting out of first gear. You may be able to rev the deep-throated engine and impress the neighbors, but in truth, you will barely be able to get out of the garage.

"This is one of those silly market concepts dreamed up by a middle-aged, non-gamer who once worked at Proctor and Gamble. To him or her I say, 'Stick to Tide and Pringles.'

 

[Reilly]

Aparently Epic Games never talked to Square-Enix

 

[svenuce]

Wow. Great piece. I like Dave Halverson's comments. :lol

 

[Mrbob]

Of course Mark Rein is going to say that. They need to pimp UE3.0 on X360.

 

[Razoric]

"Developers already got our big Xbox 360 gift - we got 512MB of RAM. That was a huge win for developers and customers alike and there was no way we were going to get that and a hard drive on every machine."

Uh downgrade the "Premium" pack to just controller and hdd, sell for $350 and you'd have 512 RAM and HDD in every machine.

 

[Reilly]

Scott Miller
CEO
3D Realms

"One word: Blunder. Developers will almost always cater to the lowest spec'ed system when it comes to consoles, so as to maximize the customer base. So, my guess is that few games will truly make significant use of the hard drive, given that it's an option that cannot be counted on."



Are they still working on Duke Nukem Forever?

 

[acidviper]

Dibs on the crippled version

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

I very much agree with the CS Weaver guy.

 

[PhatSaqs]

"So, listen up Microsoft - never disrespect your audience. We will understand if you tell us that you cannot match PS3 in price because of the different approach you have taken in order to achieve a better end result. But do NOT confuse the retail chain with a near worthless SKU and try to pull one over on your public for the right to play shell games with price when the PS3 is released next year.

That is a recipe for more bad word of mouth than any 'under $300' price will ever achieve in the hearts and minds of your customers. It takes fourteen positive impressions to register “awareness” with a consumer. It takes but one negative impression to wipe it out. I figure with your initial leap of faith added to this latest stupid pet trick, you’re just about even…

Game. Set. Match.

 

[Izzy]

CS Weaver
Founder
Bethesda Softworks
Also Visiting Scholar at M.I.T

"The idea of selling a $299 'basic' (read crippled) version of the new Xbox may make for minor bragging rights and a little press, but it is akin to buying a Ferrari F430 only to find that while the car is beautiful and has a powerful engine, the model you bought lacks a transmission capable of getting out of first gear. You may be able to rev the deep-throated engine and impress the neighbors, but in truth, you will barely be able to get out of the garage.

"This is one of those silly market concepts dreamed up by a middle-aged, non-gamer who once worked at Proctor and Gamble. To him or her I say, 'Stick to Tide and Pringles.

0_0 Brought to you by the devs of Oblivion - they can't too happy about a non-standard HDD SKU.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

So... because Microsoft is paying them to talk... it's really not fair and balanced?

 

[Mrbob]

Oh we need the whole Bethesda quote. Despite not much comment on the matter publically doesn't look like they are too happy:

CS Weaver
Founder
Bethesda Softworks
Also Visiting Scholar at M.I.T

"The idea of selling a $299 'basic' (read crippled) version of the new Xbox may make for minor bragging rights and a little press, but it is akin to buying a Ferrari F430 only to find that while the car is beautiful and has a powerful engine, the model you bought lacks a transmission capable of getting out of first gear. You may be able to rev the deep-throated engine and impress the neighbors, but in truth, you will barely be able to get out of the garage.

"This is one of those silly market concepts dreamed up by a middle-aged, non-gamer who once worked at Proctor and Gamble. To him or her I say, 'Stick to Tide and Pringles.'

"With the original Xbox, I admired Microsoft for having the imagination to incorporate an Ethernet connector. Even though they got the initial timing wrong, it was a leap of faith by a major player who showed the industry they were willing to back a vision. The current play of $299 for a box that is inadequate in order to have bragging rights over Sony is as bad an idea as the RJ45 connector was a good one.

"So, listen up Microsoft - never disrespect your audience. We will understand if you tell us that you cannot match PS3 in price because of the different approach you have taken in order to achieve a better end result. But do NOT confuse the retail chain with a near worthless SKU and try to pull one over on your public for the right to play shell games with price when the PS3 is released next year.

"That is a recipe for more bad word of mouth than any 'under $300' price will ever achieve in the hearts and minds of your customers. It takes fourteen positive impressions to register “awareness” with a consumer. It takes but one negative impression to wipe it out. I figure with your initial leap of faith added to this latest stupid pet trick, you’re just about even…

We need to hear Square Enix comment on the Tree Sitty.

 

[krypt0nian]

Awesome article - hopefully MS gets the hint sooner than later. There is still time to backpeddle "for the industry"

 

[Reilly]

We need to hear Square Enix comment on the Tree Sitty.

I wouldn't be suprised if they just drop the game :lol

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I think some of these ppl are forgetting that most casual comsumers are STUPID.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Another one I agree with:

"Microsoft runs the risk of making the same blunders that killed Sega, which had too many SKUs on the market at the same time. It dilutes the energies of the game developers, confuses consumers, but it saves the company money."

 

[VictimOfGrief]

How can an IP w/ 2 sku's be retracted? That'd be the biggest PR F'up of all time.

 

[bud]

Mark Rein
VP
Epic Games

"I think it's a very good strategy given the potential competitive landscape. They get a lower priced version for people who are more cost-conscious and an everything-you-need-for-online-gaming version for those who want the full experience. Developers were always told not to expect a hard drive on every machine so nobody has developed with the assumption it will be there.

"After hearing that the Xbox 360 would come equipped standard with a hard disk, it was decided that we had no choice but to jump on board."

---Hiromichi Tanaka, Producer, FFXI

"Taking into consideration [the Xbox 360's] hard disk and infrastructure, I think it's a safe bet that in the future, you'll see more and more cases of game makers creating their new network games on the Xbox 360 platform."

---Famitsu, Hamamura Tsushin (Famitsu Wavestream corner)

Pwn4g3.

 

[jman2050]

CS Weaver >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft.

Game. Set. Match indeed.

 

[Borys]

LOTS of negativity towards MS there. Before any of you people comment be sure to read the whole piece (3 pages long).

 

[krypt0nian]

How can an IP w/ 2 sku's be retracted? That'd be the biggest PR F'up of all time.

Umm they make an announcement that they are listening closely to the gmaing field and this is what they want. What do you mean "how can they"?

2 SKU's is the biggest fuck up.

 

[Borys]

Holy fuck this is NOT what console gaming is about:

David Perry
President
Shiny Entertainment

"I've personally always been a big fan of being able to upgrade stuff I own. It's like adding a 2GB memory stick to your PSP, when some people are happy with the poopy 32MB card that comes with it, I'm not. It's like buying a car with an optional GPS built in or not. I hate not having the choice. Choice is your friend. I've been pushing for it for years on the consoles. I even had a friend that once built a prototype console, into which you could add as many processors as you could afford.

"The PC model is the example, giving gamers the experience they are happy to pay for. Xbox 360 actually beats the PC as there's a common high-quality 3D baseline, so you can only go upwards. I hope Microsoft enjoys the experience from this strategy and truly opens up the model for Xbox 720. Meaning if I choose to add extra features or enhance features, I can do that. (Faster hard drives, more texture memory, physics chips etc.) Fingers crossed.

They really want to make PCs obsolete by... making consoles a PC!

 

[op_ivy]

great article, still reading through. bethesda doesnt seem to thrilled...

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Umm they make an announcement that they are listening closely to the gmaing field and this is what they want. What do you mean "how can they"?

2 SKU's is the biggest fuck up.

Meaning.... if Allurd or Moore comes out and says: "Due to overwhelming support and feedback... we're now offering ONE Sku for a retail price of just $349.99 which includes... bla bla bla..."

Half of what the $399 one offers and includes the HDD.

Point being is, back pedaling after the company stance has been taken is a sign of weakness to this man:

 

[Izzy]

"After hearing that the Xbox 360 would come equipped standard with a hard disk, it was decided that we had no choice but to jump on board."

---Hiromichi Tanaka, Producer, FFXI

"Taking into consideration [the Xbox 360's] hard disk and infrastructure, I think it's a safe bet that in the future, you'll see more and more cases of game makers creating their new network games on the Xbox 360 platform."

---Famitsu, Hamamura Tsushin (Famitsu Wavestream corner)

So that's whay Square decided to support X360.....

 

[DarienA]

Meaning.... if Allurd or Moore comes out and says: "Due to overwhelming support and feedback... we're now offering ONE Sku for a retail price of just $349.99 which includes... bla bla bla..."

Half of what the $399 one offers and includes the HDD.

Point being is, back pedaling after the company stance has been taken is a sign of weakness to this man:

How the hell is adjusting your product based on consumer feedback backpedaling? MS touts that they are going to give gamers what they want... aren't gamers on most forums saying they'd rather have a $350 system with a HDD and less of the items contained in the premium pack?

 

[cyberheater]

I still can't believe the bitching still going on here.

$299 dollars is a great price for an entry level next gen console.

What's not to like.

 

[Wario64]

seems like it's a bit split. some of them like the creative 2 sku pricing structure while others think it may not be a good idea. one of them said that the 2 sku's may be a way for Microsoft to gain more shelf space...pretty interesting

I still can't believe the bitching still going on here.

$299 dollars is a great price for an entry level next gen console.

What's not to like.

Most people don't like the retard pack

 

[DarienA]

I still can't believe the bitching still going on here.

$299 dollars is a great price for an entry level next gen console.

What's not to like.

You forgot to say amazing.

 

[svenuce]

To clarify, I don't think Weaver is still with Bethesda so while he founded the company, I daresay Bethsoft wouldn't quite have the same on-the-record response (even if that was what they thought). He's a consultant and professor now.

On the plus side, Weaver has no ties to any one so he can say whatever the hell he wants, which as this case shows, makes for some damn true/entertaining stuff.

 

[Borys]

He may be irrogant by he is still THE man:

"2003 - Back off, Gates!"

Much-o-respect.

 

[fiddlestick]

lol

 

[Mrbob]

I still can't believe the bitching still going on here.

$299 dollars is a great price for an entry level next gen console.

What's not to like.

The fact that the $299 package is a crippled piece of garbage?

Perhaps MS can find a middle ground yet. You need a memory card to save games. Drop the retard pack, lower the price of the premium bundle to 350 and sell all under one sku! MS is splitting the userbase on day one with a junk core pack.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

seems like it's a bit split. some of them like the creative 2 sku pricing structure while others think it may not be a good idea. one of them said that the 2 sku's may be a way for Microsoft to gain more shelf space...pretty interesting





Most people don't like the retard pack

I think Microsoft's going to have to bite the bullet on this. I fear they may have to. $360 1 sku, take out the damn remote.

 

[krypt0nian]

Meaning.... if Allurd or Moore comes out and says: "Due to overwhelming support and feedback... we're now offering ONE Sku for a retail price of just $349.99 which includes... bla bla bla..."

Half of what the $399 one offers and includes the HDD.

Point being is, back pedaling after the company stance has been taken is a sign of weakness to this man:

Actually sign of weakness = intelligent move so fuck what Ken thinks. People seriously think GAF = reality.

One correct SKU >>>>>>>> saving face with SONY. :lol

 

[TTP]

Man David Perry really sounds like he has some mental disease. WTF man.

 

[op_ivy]

LOTS of negativity towards MS there. Before any of you people comment be sure to read the whole piece (3 pages long).

i actually found it pretty balanced... the developers (first page) were of course the opinions i was most interested in, and even they seemed pretty evenly split, with only a few really sounding upset

 

[Barry Lightning]

Wow. Great piece. I like Dave Halverson's comments. :lol

yes. more brilliance from dave. what can beat this:

in regards to xbox 360's price strategy, dave begins his rant with:

"Anybody wanna buy my Porsche? It's $30k, or you can buy it without wheels for $25K..Does this make any sense?…No; but does it come as any surprise?"

nice one, dave...nice one.

 

[Borys]

i actually found it pretty balanced... the developers (first page) were of course the opinions i was most interested in, and even they seemed pretty evenly split, with only a few really sounding upset

Well yeah, seems I was reading only what I wanted to hear.

 

[Apharmd Battler]

Scott Miller
CEO
3D Realms

"One word: Blunder. Developers will almost always cater to the lowest spec'ed system when it comes to consoles, so as to maximize the customer base. So, my guess is that few games will truly make significant use of the hard drive, given that it's an option that cannot be counted on."



Are they still working on Duke Nukem Forever?

Exactly what I was thinking...they don't even have the right to speak on anything as far as I'm concerned. NEXT!!

 

[Goreomedy]

Jon Middleton
VP business development
Mad Catz

"Cha-Ching! Cha-Ching! Cha-Ching!"

Great article, thanks for the link.

 

[EternalDarko]

0_0 Brought to you by the devs of Oblivion - they can't too happy about a non-standard HDD SKU.

CS Weaver was ousted from Bethesda a couple years ago. His comments in no way represent what Bethesda think of the situation with the Core version.

It is obvious that the lack of a HD is a bad decision in that things such as patches, downloads, user made maps etc will need it to be fully realised, yet it doesnt ean that developers will not use the advantages that a hard disk would allow them to have, especially if they care about their game enough to make it that much better.
Tod Howard from Bethesda stated that you do not need a HDD to play Oblivion, but they would advise that if you have the means, then it would be best to have it for the extra abilities that having one would entail....though he did not go into specifics into what features Oblivion would use it for.

 

[DCX]

yes. more brilliance from dave. what can beat this:

in regards to xbox 360's price strategy, dave begins his rant with:

"Anybody wanna buy my Porsche? It's $30k, or you can buy it without wheels for $25K..Does this make any sense?…No; but does it come as any surprise?"

nice one, dave...nice one.

Actually i would buy his Porsche if i had my own wheels...

DCX

 

[Miburou]

Man, Ken sure gained weight.

 

[Future]

I still can't believe the bitching still going on here.

$299 dollars is a great price for an entry level next gen console.

What's not to like.

Been beaten to death, but like the dev said, that SKU is worthless. It sucks that they are actually wasting some of their initial shipment on this package, and I'm actually a little worried that the $399 packs will sell out and I'll be stuck with the $299 bullshit if I can't preorder.

 

[Gregory]

Yeah, fuck MS for not forcing me to buy a hardddrive and wireless controller that I do not want! :rolleyes

Fuck these developers. I don`t give a fuck about their lameass online RPG`s or whatever they think people need the harddrive for. Bastards.

 

[Razoric]

Yeah, fuck MS for not forcing me to buy a hardddrive and wireless controller that I do not want! :rolleyes

Fuck these developers too. I don`t give a fuck about their lameass online RPG`s or whatever they think people need the harddrive for. Bastards.

whoa dude

 

[DarienA]

i actually found it pretty balanced... the developers (first page) were of course the opinions i was most interested in, and even they seemed pretty evenly split, with only a few really sounding upset

Yeah it looks like it's pretty evenly split between those who things it's a positive move and those are think it could go either way... there are very few completely negative comments... I think I tracked it as 4, 1, 2 on the first page, 1, 4, 1 on the second and 1, 2 on the last for a total of 6 pos, 7 middle of the road, 3 negative.

 

[Mrbob]

whoa dude

He would rather buy 4 or 5 memory cards than a hdd. He should be happy MS actually went through are really going to release an Xbox 1.5 after all. It is called the core package.

 

[krypt0nian]

Yeah, fuck MS for not forcing me to buy a hardddrive and wireless controller that I do not want! :rolleyes

Fuck these developers. I don`t give a fuck about their lameass online RPG`s or whatever they think people need the harddrive for. Bastards.