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[DeafTourette]

I was at a meeting today and after it was adjourned we talked about movies.

The topic of Halle Vs Johannson came up and my friend made a very valid observation.

Halle Berry took the time and training to look like a seasoned professional killer in the latest John Wick movie. That movie does long pans of the anti-heroes in action... Few cut aways and you can TELL they are actually doing those movements and some of their own stunts. A lot like the Hong Kong Kung Fu movies of the 80s and 90s ... And specifically Hollywood's The Matrix. For many people, the long pans for fight scenes builds hype for and during the movie.

Scarlet Johannson, on the other hand, can only do some select moves but you know it's a stuntwoman with the constant edit cuts (not as bad as Liam Neeson's Taken series), even though it's made to look more seemless. You can still tell there's a stuntwoman, though. It takes away from the hype levels, TBH.

And I'm just now remembering the HORRID portrayal of Sonya Blade and her fight with Kano in the original Mortal Kombat movie. She didn't look like she knew a martial art from a hole in the ground. It was pathetic and cringey as all get out.

What do y'all think? Should Marquee actors (in good/great physical health) be trained to really sell their roles?

 

[Hulk_Smash]

It's pretty standard these days isn't it? But, also, reminder: stunts are fucking dangerous. I remember when they were filming Matrix reloaded and Carrie Anne Moss had to sit out a few days because she got hit hard in the head during a fight. And we all know of the more famous actors getting injured doing their own stunts. I don't know. I think it's a case by case basis. If they're in the movie primarily for the action, then yes. But, are they in it primarily because of their acting ability and the fighting is not front and center, then I think no.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Preach.

Tom Cruise in Fallout spoiled me

I watched The Hitman’s Bodyguard recently and could tell it wasn’t Ryan on the motorcycle, not just because of helmet but the body was smaller.

not that Ryan Reynolds doesn’t look like an action star, mind you

I really wonder how Portman is gonna pull off Mighty Thor. Will they use CGI muscles?

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Preach.

Tom Cruise in Fallout spoiled me

I watched The Hitman’s Bodyguard recently and could tell it wasn’t Ryan on the motorcycle, not just because of helmet but the body was smaller.

not that Ryan Reynolds doesn’t look like an action star, mind you

I really wonder how Portman is gonna pull off Mighty Thor. Will they use CGI muscles?

Some actors build themselves up for roles or vice versa (like what's his face in The Machinist) but Portman could be exercising, lifting weights and on a protein diet.

I still don't think she'll be a comvincing femme Thor but whatever.

 

[Richard Packer]

OG Sonya was hot as fuck though.

 

[DeafTourette]

It's pretty standard these days isn't it? But, also, reminder: stunts are fucking dangerous. I remember when they were filming Matrix reloaded and Carrie Anne Moss had to sit out a few days because she got hit hard in the head during a fight. And we all know of the more famous actors getting injured doing their own stunts. I don't know. I think it's a case by case basis. If they're in the movie primarily for the action, then yes. But, are they in it primarily because of their acting ability and the fighting is not front and center, then I think no.

I am only talking about the fight scenes. Not doing Jackie Chan level of death wish stunts. Like Keanu and Halle for John Wick 3: Parabellum

 

[DeafTourette]

OG Sonya was hot as fuck though.

Looked like a 2 week strong white belt in her scenes. She didn't sell me AT ALL on her ability to throw a punch. That was embarrassing. And I think she was a late casting switch... I might be wrong on that.

 

[Constant Flux]

OG Sonya was hot as fuck though.

Yes! As a kid, I remember playing the legs around the neck part because of the jiggly tits. That was amazing to me back in those days.

 

[Richard Packer]

Looked like a 2 week strong white belt in her scenes. She didn't sell me AT ALL on her ability to throw a punch. That was embarrassing. And I think she was a late casting switch... I might be wrong on that.

Young Packer's boner did not care.

 

[GreyHorace]

I am only talking about the fight scenes. Not doing Jackie Chan level of death wish stunts. Like Keanu and Halle for John Wick 3: Parabellum

Fight scenes can go extremely wrong and you can still injure someone badly if you're not careful. I don't blame actors wanting to use stunt doubles in this case. Sylvester Stallone was sent to the hospital after he told Dolph Lundgren to hit him as hard as he can while shooting Rocky 4.

The rare ones like Tom Cruise and Keanu Reeves can do fight scenes without doubles no problem. I can respect that, but it doesn't have to be the norm.

 

[Constant Flux]

Stallone is tough as a $2 steak, bruh.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Rey in the SW ST doesn't look like she has any idea about fighting.
Just swinging around that light saber like it's a limp dick.

 

[sol_bad]

Preach.

Tom Cruise in Fallout spoiled me

I watched The Hitman’s Bodyguard recently and could tell it wasn’t Ryan on the motorcycle, not just because of helmet but the body was smaller.

not that Ryan Reynolds doesn’t look like an action star, mind you

I really wonder how Portman is gonna pull off Mighty Thor. Will they use CGI muscles?

When it comes to vehicular stunts (especially motorbikes) sometimes I don't think it's about the actor themselves. I honestly think it's more of an insurance issue and companies not wanting to cover people who are inexperienced. Just randomly throwing that out there.

 

[jufonuk]

Yes make the Hollywood actors into assassins. What is this the plot from zoolander?

 

[Constant Flux]

Rey in the SW ST doesn't look like she has any idea about fighting.
Just swinging around that light saber like it's a limp dick.

But she’s The Last Jedi!

 

[Stiflers Mom]

But she’s The Last Jedi!

and stunning and brave.

 

[Alx]

When it's cheap enough, they'll just CGI-slap the actor's face on all stunt shots, so that the cuts and weird angles won't be necessary.

 

[EekTheKat]

I think it's only reasonable to expect actors to show up in shape for the roles they're going for. But it's a little unreasonable for them to perform stunts like a professional after only 6 months of training.

Teaching an actor/actress how to do a spin kick can probably be done in 6 months, but teaching them to do a spin kick without actually injuring the other person while still looking good will probably require a lot more experience/teaching.

IMHO, two stuntmen/women with a decade of experience doing a choreographed fight on screen are less likely to injure each other than one stuntman and one actor/actress with a few months of training under their belt. Plus the two trained stunt performers can probably get the job done quicker. Shit happens even on fight scenes.

With the ability to pretty much digitally replace faces in movies - especially since facial mocap is a thing these days - it's arguably quicker/better to go that route than spend months training an actor/actress that may not even be able to do the move correctly. Besides CGI faces can probably pass the test for a few seconds on screen better than they can at delivering lines for a 2 minute scene.

All that really matters is if the end result looks good/convincing.

Danny Trejo had a good take on actors doing their own stunts :

from :

'Bad Ass' Danny Trejo: Actors who do their own stunts are crazy

Danny Trejo has starred in blockbusters like "Machete," "Con Air," and "Badass." His latest is the sequel to fan-favorite "Bad Ass" – "Bad Asses" – which is now available on Blu-ray and DVD.

www.foxnews.com

FOX411: Speaking of whacking people, you’ve done a lot of your own stunts, right?

Trejo: No. First of all, making movies is a business. Now all you actors that want to disagree me, I dare you. The reality is insurance companies won’t let us do our own stunts. We have professionals, just like I’m a professional artist. What I do is, “To be or not to be in the barrio,” that’s what I do. A stunt guy pads up and goes through a wall. That’s his profession. Every time the profession’s mixed, I don’t want to risk 80 people’s jobs just so I can say I have big nuts. I don’t want to say that. Norm Mora is my stunt man, that’s his profession.

 

[GeorgPrime]

https://taskandpurpose.com/john-wick-taran-tactical-training

Keanu Reeves learns all by himself

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Why do "action" movies cast women that can barely act, look ok-ish and still need stunt doubles again?

 

[xrnzaaas]

Fight scenes involving physical contact will always use stunt doubles, because there's too big of a risk of a serious injury. Yes there are guys like Tom Cruise, but many would call him irresponsible for risking the stunts on his own.

Of course that doesn't mean that the actor should avoid any training. It's good to see them muscular or knowing to handle a weapon (like Keanu & Halle in John Wick). I remember watching Resident Evil Apocalypse for the first time and laughing about how Jill was pointing a gun with her one (tiny) hand.

 

[HE1NZ]

Halle Berry looked good in John Wake, but her fight scenes were pretty bad. They really shouldn't have women hand fight men twice their size. She should have kept using guns and dogs. Scarlett Johansson didn't seem as bad in comparison because everything looks fake in Marvel movies.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yes! As a kid, I remember playing the legs around the neck part because of the jiggly tits. That was amazing to me back in those days.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Watched some 90s action movies the other day. Man, they did not have a fucking clue how to handle a firearm.

 

[kiiltz]

I'd say it's more of a production issue than anything, be it the casting of the stunt double, choreography, editing, directing or costume department. While it's certainly impressive and praiseworthy when an actor does the lion's share of their own stunts, it's still limiting, severely so in some cases. The Matrix is simultaneously a good and bad example because while the fight scenes were good, they paled a lot compared to the Hong Kong films they took inspiration from, largely due to the actors' physical capabilities. Ultimately no amount of training will compare to someone who's dedicated their life to their craft. This raises the next issue on whether or not a director/studio is patient enough and/or if an actor is skilled enough to do the shoot. Gerard Butler for example, almost didn't do the wide lateral shot in 300 because it wasn't working and shooting was falling behind schedule.

I actually had to stop myself from rolling my eyes several times during John Wick because Keanu's age kept revealing itself. I think Halle was okay but the real stars of those movies are the stuntmen.

 

[MisterFalcon]

When they go out of their way to show the actor doing the stunts it becomes more about the actor then the character they portray. David Mamet mentions this as something to avoid doing in movies. You might as well change Ethan Hunt's name to Tom Cruise, and have him play an actor who is also a secret agent doing missions disguised as location shoots for action movies.

99% of what happens in action movies is impossible anyway. As long as they make sure you don't recognize the stunt double as a different person it's fine with me.

 

[slugbahr]

When they go out of their way to show the actor doing the stunts it becomes more about the actor then the character they portray. David Mamet mentions this as something to avoid doing in movies. You might as well change Ethan Hunt's name to Tom Cruise, and have him play an actor who is also a secret agent doing missions disguised as location shoots for action movies.

99% of what happens in action movies is impossible anyway. As long as they make sure you don't recognize the stunt double as a different person it's fine with me.

But if you can't get the feeling that it's the actor doing the stunts most of the time, then you might as well not write the character as being that skilled.
And instead have some no name stunt actor be the character that possesses those abilities.

 

[Constant Flux]

*splooges*

 

[BadBurger]

Some actors are not allowed to do things because their insurance company won't allow it. This can be due to a mixture of factors we'll probably never know about.

That said I am amazed Cruise does the things he does in movies. He must pay a ridiculous amount in insurance.

 

[GymWolf]

Scarlet johanson doesn't like this topic.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

OG Sonya was hot as fuck though.

yeah they got the hot teacher from Billy Madison.

i agree action movies should fight well. but to me tho Mortal Kombat was more like a pulp b-movie. not so much about actual fighting as it is about fantasy fighting.

 

[jason10mm]

While I appreciate stuntmen I do agree that actresses who get cast in action roles should be doing some crossfit and martial art training. Alas, it is FAR easier to cast a toothpick with implants to pretend to be tough than it is to find an actual tough chick that looks attractive and can act.

Seems like it is getting better though. An athletic physique is more popular now, I see fewer sarah Michelle gellers/summer glau types these days and more girls that look like they can at least do a pull up. Or at least they are getting better at choreographing fights that show how skinny women could defeat a big guy.

Gun handling in general has vastly improved lately as well, probably because digital muzzle flashes allow the actors to get all intimate with shooting instead of making it an elaborate stunt in an of itself. Still see woman given guns FAR too large for their body type or holding them like a slimy dead fish.

If only Gina Carano or Ronda Rousey could act This generation needs a cynthia rothrock or at least victoria pratt as inspiration

 

[MaestroMike]

female action heroes that actually do all that training kinda come off as manly they have too much testosterone, not enough fat and start having a mans body don't know if thats a good thing but usually kills my attraction for them. but bro action heros should def do the training and stunt work, they're acting skillz tho might take a hit, but I do admire Tom Cruise and Jackie Chan for the sh1t they pulled, but yeah they probably shouldn't do really dangerous stunt work

 

[PrimetimeKnight]

Yes! As a kid, I remember playing the legs around the neck part because of the jiggly tits. That was amazing to me back in those days.

Holy shit I did that too!

 

[EverydayBeast]

Actors who do their own stunts at high levels is an elite class.

 

[Mihos]

 

[PrimetimeKnight]

*splooges*

Yeah it was that scene and I think you also get a good view just before she snaps Kano's neck .

 

[#Phonepunk#]

being crushed by the thighs of a woman was the preferred method of death in the 90s

 

[Constant Flux]

I loved the 90’s.

 

[highrider]

Agreed, but the problem is a lot of very popular actors just aren’t athletic enough to do that type of stuff. Even Denzel in his 60s can still do pretty convincing physical stuff, and I think it just comes down to being more physically gifted.

 

[DeafTourette]

You can look like a legit martial artist without doing the jump spinning kicks.

Take Denzel in Book of Eli. His fight scenes are quick, close quarters and use economy of motion. They're also super simple to learn. And he made it look BOSS! AND HE'S IN HIS 60s!

 

[MisterFalcon]

Scarlet johanson doesn't like this topic.

Stunt legend Vic Armstrong mentions Scarlet in his book, he started training her for MI:3 (before the whole thing suddenly shut down for some weird Scientology related drama) and was very impressed with her. From the making of stuff I've seen she's doing a lot of wirework but the hand to hand combat is so crazy elaborate it's hard to make look good. A side effect of having a person without superpowers taking part in set pieces with gods, robots, aliens and mutants and still looking like they are on the same level.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Keanu is just mad as a box of frogs and I love it. Go watch some of his gun training videos, the gig is a legit marksman and is damn good at it these days.

And Cruise, well... He’s done a complete 180 from his old days. The man will essentially make a film based around the most crazy damn stunt he can pull off himself, he’s a complete adrenaline junkie and I have a lot of respect for him. I mean he’s getting on a bit now, but he consistently does stunts that even stunt men half his age think twice about.

 

[Airola]

Mortal Kombat seriously needs a reboot. As a porno.

 

[slugbahr]

Mortal Kombat seriously needs a reboot. As a porno.

Mortal Kumbat?

 

[Airola]

Mortal Kumbat?

One step higher on the ridiculousness level: Mortal Kumbath

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

I agree with your point but a far easier one would be to actually show SOME damage. I get it we can't have them all with swollen up faces because if it were completely realistic the fights would be over in 2 seconds when one person got a clean punch in.

But if Dom is getting slugged with a damn wrench he should have SOME damage to his face. I hate how FF movies especially they'll have like one little cut after crashing through glass and getting slugged in the face 50 times. Makes all the fighting feel useless and inconsequential

 

[slugbahr]

One step higher on the ridiculousness level: Mortal Kumbath

Fuckin brilliant.

Me is disappoint in myself.

 

[Gargus]

 

[bitbydeath]

One step higher on the ridiculousness level: Mortal Kumbath

Mortal Kumbucket