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[PdotMichael]

Can you study without paying that fee?

There are hardship clauses.

Not that it would make sense in the first place because just the semester ticket for local public transport alone which is part of the deal is like a steal.
Non students would pay 2x-3x for it.

 

[Jisgsaw]

No, they don't? They make absolutely no money with students. The small semester contribution covers expenses for campus life, subsidizes living costs and food for students and funds public transportation costs (often in the whole state), that are much cheaper that way, because every student has to contribute.

I think he was talking about US universities taking in people with EU degrees.
Because god forbid they would take them for their academic capability; it would be nonsense, as only the US has noteworthy universities, as everyone knows.

 

[Palculator]

lol, you can't be fucking serious. How ignorant can one be? News at 11: There exists, in fact, a world outside of the US.

I know, right? Getting bloody ridiculous. Guess those tuition fees don't cover perspective.

 

[PdotMichael]

I think he was talking about US universities taking in people with EU degrees.
Because god forbid they would take them for their academic capability; it would be nonsense, as only the US has noteworthy universities, as everyone knows.

That would explain why the research groups are full of foreigners in the USA.

 

[Gutek]

There are hardship clauses.

Not that it would make sense in the first place because just the semester ticket for local public transport alone which is part of the deal is like a steal.
Non students would pay 2x-3x for it.

So studying is not free. Thank you.

Also, this post seems way more sensible than what the OP is promising:

Link

Due to the recent news of Germany abolishing tuition fees on a national level I thought I could share my experience as a non-EU foreigner (American) going through the German university application process. Warning: If you expect this process to be easy, you're absolutely wrong.

Note: If you from Australia, Chile, Hong Kong, Israel, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand and Taiwan and are between 18 and 30 you can get a 1 year working holiday visa. If you're Canadian and between 18 and 35 you can get a 1 year working holiday visa (as long as you show proof of sufficient funds for a few months). This means you can move to Germany for a while before applying.

Step 1: Find a German University that offers a program you're interested in.
Germany, unlike the United States, requires you to choose your degree program before enrolling. You do not just take a little of this and a little of that until you decide what to do. Most undergraduate degree programs in Germany are taught in German, not in English. Here is a list of German university programs in English. Here is a list of all German university programs.

Step 2: Organize your needed materials to apply. Ex: High school diploma, SAT scores, ACT scores.
If you did not graduate with at least a 3.5 GPA, and get high scores on your SAT or ACT with writing, turn back now. German universities only let in a fraction of international students for each German student, because they want to educate their citizens first. For the degree program I selected at HTW in Berlin they allowed a total of 50 students in each year and only 7 were allowed to be international.

Step 3: Submit a uni-assist.
International students wishing to study in Germany must submit their applications via Uni-Assist. It costs 75euro for the first university application, and 15euro for each additional one for the same semester. If you wish to apply to another program for a later semester you must pay 75euro again. (75EUR is roughly $95.) From my experience uni-assist takes a loooooooooong time. My process was streamlined because I lived in Germany and was able to drop off my applications in person at the office.

Step 4: Wait.
Now you wait to find out if you were accepted. Unlike the United States, you will NOT find out months before the semester begins. Most likely you'll find out 1 month or so before. This will make moving to Germany a bit rushed.

Step 5: The response.
You will receive a response from your university as to whether or not you were accepted. If you weren't, sorry. It's a tough process. You can try again, but honestly I would just forget it and try another country if you MUST study in Europe (The Netherlands offers MANY courses in English, but is not free). If you were accepted, congratulations! Now your headaches really begin!

Step 6: The visa.
To receive a student visa in Germany you must be enrolled in a university. Once you've received your acceptance letter you can accept the spot and have to pay fees. What do you mean fees? Germany just got rid of their fees! Yes, they got rid of their tuition fees, but not the other ones. You still have to pay a few hundred Euro per semester for student organizations and your train ticket. It is worth it though, the ticket comes at a highly discounted price.
Once your fees are paid you will get proof from your university that you are enrolled. Now comes the fun. If you're in your home country you contact the German embassy/consulate to start the visa process. If you're in Germany.. lucky you! You get to go to the Auslaenderbehoerde! What is the Auslaenderbehoerde? Well, it's the first German word I learned to spell in my sleep. They are the foreign office tasked with helping us non-EU citizens get visas. And boy are they a friendly bunch!
To get a student visa in Germany you will need proof that you can sustain yourself. You need roughly 8000EUR (roughly $10,000) in your German bank account at the beginning of the school year, each year. What does this mean? Either your parents need to sign a statement that they will 100% support you and give proof with bank statements showing they have enough income to give you the money. You can also get scholarships (more on this in a second), get a loan (from Germany, which is hard to do), or have a permanent German resident (citizen or not) sign a declaration that they will financially support you. Keep in mind, German degree programs last between 3 and 4 years, so you will need in total $30,000 or $40,000 to just get your visa for each of the years.
You NEED health insurance. Your university can help you get this sorted.
Once you have all of this covered: Congratulations! Time to move to Germany!

FAQs

What about scholarships?
Germany offers very few scholarships, especially for undergraduate studies. You can find some at the DAAD, but prepare to be disappointed.
So I got accepted and my visa is sorted out, what about living situations?
German universities typically do not offer student housing. Some do, but the amount of places is very limited and it fills up very fast. Most likely you'll need to find a WG (apartment share) in the city where you're studying. You can search for a WG here. In most cities these fill up very fast and you will need to go for an interview. You'll have a difficult time finding a place to live when you're not in the country.
$10,000 per year? Will this be enough for me to go out and party?
Simply put: No. This will cover your living expenses, health insurance, and food costs.
What? So then how am I supposed to do things?
Luckily, on a student visa you can get a job. Only a part time job, but still. You can work either 90 full-time days a year or 180 part-time days. Finding a job will be difficult if you don't speak German and do not live in a major international city. Berlin would be the easiest to find work without needing to speak German. But be warned, English is a dime a dozen. You are not unique because you speak English.
Do I need to speak German?
Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssss. While many of your friends you make at school will speak English, you'll need at least basic German to get by in every day life. Important documents must be done in German, bank accounts are opened in German, rental agreements are usually in German, and obviously people around you will speak German. Speaking some German is not enough. It might be if you want to move to Germany and never do anything other than hang out with other English speakers, but if you want to really appreciate the country and culture, learn some damn German.
It has been a few years since my application procedure, so please feel free to correct me if I have misremembered anything. If there's anything I've missed, please add it as well.

List of important resources
DAAD - Deutscher Akademischer Austausch Dienst - German Academic Exchange Service
Uni-Assist
Study-In-DE
Study in Holland (just because!)

I will end this by saying Germany is a fantastic country. I lived there for years, made friends for life, and have wonderful memories. I miss it every day with every fiber of my being and hope some day I'll be back. Studying in Germany is much more difficult and more rigid than the US. You'll be in class 5 days a week and for most of the day. Don't eat out often, and buy beer from the grocery store and you'll be fine.

Edit: Thank you everyone for the feedback. There is tons of great info in the comments, so I urge everyone to read them! I would like to clarify that not every experience will be 100% like mine. Hopefully you won't take a hour and a half u-bahn and bus ride to Uni-Assist only to realize you forgot your paperwork at home!

If you have any specific questions please feel free to shoot me a PM and ask away! If I can't answer your question I'll try to point you in the direction of someone who can.

I am in no way an expert at this process nor am I associated with any universities.

Edit 2: I am still receiving many PMs from this post. It seems the main point I'm trying to make is lost on many of you so here it is in back and white: This will NOT save you money. You need about $15,000 PER YEAR just to survive. You cannot get a loan. You need to have the money in the bank or have your parents pay to keep you going. If you happen to have about $60,000 in the bank then just go to undergrad in the US, take German classes, and do your master's in Germany.

 

[Palculator]

So studying is not free. Thank you.

Well, you entered the the thread claiming it was 20.000€ a year upwards like in the U.S. and have now moved the goalpost to it being not 0€, so congrats!

 

[PdotMichael]

That pointless battle of semantics. And then even losing it.

But even taking the $15000 statement. That's a steal because it includes education and living.

 

[Jisgsaw]

So studying is not free. Thank you.
]

Studying is. Living isn't.

If you happen to have about $60,000 in the bank then just go to undergrad in the US, take German classes, and do your master's in Germany.

That however is a very good point.
The best course of action may be to do your undergraduate studies at home, and come do a masters in Germany.

 

[Gutek]

lol, you can't be fucking serious. How ignorant can one be? News at 11: There exists, in fact, a world outside of the US.

Honestly, I don't think you understand. For example: A CS degree from UofI will open a lot of doors for you. There is more to it than just the degree, it's the network, the reputation, etc. I'm sorry, it's true.

 

[oti]

So studying is not free. Thank you.

lol

 

[Gutek]

Well, you entered the the thread claiming it was 20.000€ a year upwards like in the U.S. and have now moved the goalpost to it being not 0€, so congrats!

If anything, I adjusted it to 15k based on that Reddit post.

 

[Jisgsaw]

Honestly, I don't think you understand. For example: A CS degree from UofI will open a lot of doors for you. There is more to it than just the degree, it's the network, the reputation, etc. I'm sorry, it's true.

You do realize this also applies to universities in other countries, right? Maybe not in the US, but in their home country and, more and more, in all of Europe.

If anything, I adjusted it to 15k based on that Reddit post.

Great, one reddit post.
I'll repeat myself: I lived in the most expensive german city on 800€/month while doing my studies. So 9600€/yr. Compared to what you yourself estimated at at least $30k.
And I'm originally from Paris, so that includes 3-4 trips back to Paris/yr.

So, why would be that reddit post more relevant than my experience?

 

[Gutek]

That pointless battle of semantics. And then even losing it.

But even taking the $15000 statement. That's a steal because it includes education and living.

Which means this is for well situated, middle class kids only. Poor kid from south side Chicago will never be able to spring the 60k. A student loan seems way more realistic then.

You do realize this also applies to universities in other countries, right? Maybe not in the US, but in their home country and, more and more, in all of Europe.

Oh, I wasn't aware that we were talking about emigration. I though the student would go back to the US with a degree.

 

[Greddleok]

You do realize this also applies to universities in other countries, right? Maybe not in the US, but in their home country and, more and more, in all of Europe.

You can't make contacts outside of the US, and there are no non-US universities in the top 100.

 

[Jisgsaw]

Oh, I wasn't aware that we were talking about emigration. I though the student would go back to the US with a degree.

You do know there are a lot of global company that are german, right? And that they sometimes also operate in the US?

 

[Gutek]

Sorry guys, if I need to have 60k to make this a fruitful endeavor then it defeats the purpose of being "free". If you can spring 60k, you can afford college in the US. This helps nobody. The only upside is the experience of living abroad.

 

[Jisgsaw]

Sorry guys, if I need to have 60k to make this a fruitful endeavor then it defeats the purpose of being "free". If you can spring 60k, you can afford college in the US. This helps nobody. The only upside is the experience of living abroad.

Where the hell do you come up with 60k?
Again, 8k are enough for the visa, and ok for getting by for a year.

 

[Palculator]

You can't make contacts outside of the US, and there are no non-US universities in the top 100.

That doesn't seem true. We have yearly job fairs where a bunch of American companies show up either looking to recruit people for their local branches (like Google for Zürich) or even in the U.S. Now, I don't have any first hand experience with them because I'm happy with the research institute I'm working at and will probably just continue working there after graduating, but if these non-U.S. degrees were as worthless to U.S. companies as you imply, they wouldn't be here charming people who don't even have a degree yet.

 

[scamander]

Honestly, I don't think you understand. For example: A CS degree from UofI will open a lot of doors for you. There is more to it than just the degree, it's the network, the reputation, etc. I'm sorry, it's true.

What you apparently don't understand is, that European universities are part of said network as well. And professionals know it. I know two university lectures who had their entire education in Germany, but still worked for Yale and Stanford. My sister who just finished her doctoral thesis already made important contacts, when she got a paid visit to the US to take part in the most important neuroscience expo worldwide to present her thesis.

If anything, I adjusted it to 15k based on that Reddit post.

That's ridiculous. I've never had more than 670€ per month as a student and covered all costs with it. Another thing that hasn't even been mentioned yet, is that you also can apply for housing benefits- yes, even as a foreigner. You can basically live a pretty good live, if you're working part time and get some housing benefits on top.

 

[Gutek]

Where the hell do you come up with 60k?
Again, 8k are enough for the visa, and ok for getting by for a year.

Even at 30k for the whole thing, it's not an option for poor Americans.

 

[Greddleok]

That doesn't seem true. We have yearly job fairs where a bunch of American companies show up either looking to recruit people for their local branches (like Google for Zürich) or even in the U.S. Now, I don't have any first hand experience with them because I'm happy with the research institute I'm working at and will probably just continue working there after graduating, but if these non-U.S. degrees were as worthless to U.S. companies as you imply, they wouldn't be here charming people who don't even have a degree yet.

It isn't true, I guess my sarcasm was too subtle.

 

[ElTorro]

2. Sorry, nobody knows what TU Muenchen is in the US. It's akin to community college. It's a degree, nothing less, nothing more.

This is utter nonsense. One of my colleagues went to the very MIT that you mentioned. Another came from Harvard. You can hardly do that with "just a degree" that is "akin to community college."

 

[Palculator]

It isn't true, I guess my sarcasm was too subtle.

Fair enough, my bad as well, then. Cheers.

Some of the shit that has been posted sincerely threw me off, I guess, heh.

This is utter nonsense. One of my colleagues went to the very MIT that you mentioned. Another came from Harvard. You can hardly do that with "just a degree" that is "akin to community college."

But how would that work if the University is not even American.

O:

 

[Gutek]

This is utter nonsense. One of my colleagues went to the very MIT that you mentioned. Another came from Harvard. You can hardly do that with "just a degree" that is "akin to community college."

I don't know what that means. What do you mean 'went' and 'came'. A recruiter in the US will generally not know what TU Muenchen ist. I'm talking jobs here.

 

[Des0lar]

Even at 30k for the whole thing, it's not an option for poor Americans.

And neither is studying in America? What's your point?

We are talking about people who would study anyway, in Germany they only have to pay living expenses and miniscule fees, while similar degrees in the US rack up to the thousands.

 

[Gutek]

And neither is studying in America? What's your point?

We are talking about people who would study anyway, in Germany they only have to pay living expenses and miniscule fees, while similar degrees in the US rack up to the thousands.

Student loans and scholarships are an option, you know.

 

[Greddleok]

I don't know what that means. What do you mean 'went' and 'came'. A recruiter in the US will generally not know what TU Muenchen ist. I'm talking jobs here.

Now you're being intentionally difficult.

 

[ElTorro]

I don't know what that means. What do you mean 'went' and 'came'.

It means that I know more than just one person who either got a great job (in industry and academia) abroad with a degree from one of Germany's big universities like, TU München or RWTH Aachen, or went to those universities to work there academically.

A recruiter in the US will generally not know what TU Muenchen ist. I'm talking jobs here.

I don't know what else to tell you other than that I and colleagues of mine have made the very opposite experience when applying for jobs; both in academia and industry. What is the basis for your generalized statement? More than just personal unfamiliarity with international degrees? I haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if you already mentioned that.

 

[PdotMichael]

Why should an American recruiter not know about German universities or even have already first-hand experience with German engineers if half of the leading companies, suppliers and hidden champions are from Germany in basically every industry?

Getting back some Americans to the USA would be even quite hard after they tasted some of the socialist sweetness of the 35-37h week with 30 days holiday.

 

[GSG Flash]

There's a catch and the catch is that it can be hard to support your living costs there. There's no such thing as a free lunch anywhere.

I know someone who was studying in Dusseldorf in English, he needed to work two jobs to stay afloat.

 

[scamander]

^
He must have done it fundamentally wrong then. You can get a lunch within the university for about 2€ as a student, btw.

 

[sphinx]

Getting back some Americans to the USA would be even quite hard after they tasted some of the socialist sweetness of the 35-37h week with 30 days holiday.

I laughed cause this is true. Germany has so amazing working conditions, is not even funny.

We Mexicans are used to working 12 hours a day for shit salaries,

Alone working 12 hours a day is unthinkable here in Germany, let alone getting minimum wage for it.

 

[Palculator]

Why should an American recruiter not know about German universities or even have already first-hand experience with German engineers if half of the leading companies, suppliers and hidden champions are from Germany in basically every industry?

Germany isn't known for science and engineering at all.

There's a catch and the catch is that it can be hard to support your living costs there. There's no such thing as a free lunch anywhere.

I know someone who was studying in Dusseldorf in English, he needed to work two jobs to stay afloat.

I think that largely depends on the major. Doing compsci, it's super easy to get student jobs that pay roughly ~11€ an hour at my University, which have covered most of my living expenses, and those jobs are super easy to get (I basically asked via email, not even a formal application) and I've since been promoted to a much better paying position. Obviously, a major which doesn't have an immediately practical application like compsci is going to have a harder time, but just saying that it can be easy as well.

 

[Jisgsaw]

Alone working 12 hours a day is unthinkable here in Germany

Well, it's completely illegal. 10 hours/day max (12 if you have travel time during the day).

 

[Dictator93]

Oh look, someone talking down non-anglo schools that aren't mentioned in hollywood films and in the Wall Street Journal.

They must all surely be unserious non-academic institutions! Get a grip, yikes.

I know someone who was studying in Dusseldorf in English, he needed to work two jobs to stay afloat.

Your friend was living an unmanagable livestyle somehow, living beyond reasonable means. Or had an otherwise untypical case.

 

[anonymous_abc]

"Free" is a very relative term. You need about 850 € a month to cover your living expenses. To make that money you have to earn about 1050 € before taxes/social insurance. You are allowed to work 120 days a year fulltime, that means you have to find a job that pays 13 € an hour to actually cover your cost. That is if you don't do trips home, which can be another 2k a year. The standard student job pays close to 9 € an hour.

I know this is in the OP but it's buried between the other stuff. Also because studies are free the popular courses are incredibly crowded (300 students in a room for 250 is the rule, not the exception). Or they have strict requirements to take them. And only 5 % of all students are allowed to be foreigners. So yeah, it's not that easy.

Yea it's soon pathetic for the free not to also cover living expenses............. ?

 

[nampad]

Ok, we can squabble over price all day long, but it only serves to prove my point, which is: ITS NOT FREE.


And, when you spend thousands of dollars, why not get a great degree from a place like UofI, MIT, Calarts, etc. Going to a German university is like going to community college.
Which you could do for much cheaper.

I am not sure if I should laugh or cry.

 

[chadskin]

3. MIT is crazy expensive. Probably around 50k a year. UofI would be around 30k. Both including room & board.

I'm not sure if you understood that once you've deposited the €8K at the bank and thus proven your financial resources, you can withdraw €690 or more per month from that account and use it for all your expenditures. It's not a fee or money that mysteriously vanishes into thin air.

Going by the graphic Phantask2K posted earlier, those €8K should indeed roughly cover your yearly costs (Garching, for instance, is near Munich, easily the most expensive city in Germany), though surely a financial buffer for unexpected expenditures is recommended.

For comparison, UofL:

Kentucky Resident Total Cost $19,142
In-State Tuition $10,236
Other Fees $196
Room and Board $7,710
Books and Supplies $1,000

Non-Resident Total Cost $33,030
Out-of-State Tuition $24,124
Other Fees $196
Room and Board $7,710
Books and Supplies $1,000

So you're looking at $20K-$33K per year at UofL versus €8K-€10K per year in Germany. Assuming you finish your Bachelor's in three years that'd add up to $60K-$99K in Louisville and €24K-€30K in Germany. That's a significant difference and a much easier pill to swallow if you have to take on a student loan.

If you're arguing that it's not worth it if, for example, you live near the UofL and can quickly commute between home and university, then sure, the savings are probably not large enough to make the hassle of moving to another country worth your while. If you intend to move out of state and have to live on/near campus anyway, then Europe is worth a consideration for sure.

As for the quality of education, UofL is ranked #501 globally by Thomson Reuters while the top 10 universities in Germany are ranked between #37 and #136, and 41 of the 51 German universities are ranked higher than Louisville. Even if a US recruiter doesn't know the university, I'm sure he's able to use Google and figure this out.

Arguably the bigger question is if the European degree is legally recognized in the US, something that one should definitely check out before making the trip.

 

[Greddleok]

I was assuming the poster meant University of Illinois - you know UofI, where the I is an uppercase i not a lower case L, which unfortunately look very similar IlIllllI

This thread reminds me of the PS+ thread. "It's not free!"

 

[nampad]

I laughed cause this is true. Germany has so amazing working conditions, is not even funny.

We Mexicans are used to working 12 hours a day for shit salaries,

Alone working 12 hours a day is unthinkable here in Germany, let alone getting minimum wage for it.

I just did the unthinkable for the last 5 months, lol.

 

[JumpCancel]

I'm from the UK and even I'm debating on heading to Germany for university in the near future. Tuition fees are ridiculous here, along with a majority of people heading to University straight out of Sixth Form simply to fill in 4 years of their life. I know some do plan on furthering their career, but they're not a majority at least when I left way back when.

If you don't have a mass of responsibilities holding you down geographically, it's a great opportunity by the sounds of it.

Despite being taught in English I'm learning German anyway.

I don't like sausages though. Is there plenty of Cottage cheese in Germany?

 

[Dictator93]

Is there plenty of Cottage cheese in Germany?

Yep.

 

[JumpCancel]

Yep.

I'm sorted then.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I'm from the UK and even I'm debating on heading to Germany for university in the near future. Tuition fees are ridiculous here, along with a majority of people heading to University straight out of Sixth Form simply to fill in 4 years of their life. I know some do plan on furthering their career, but they're not a majority at least when I left way back when.

If you don't have a mass of responsibilities holding you down geographically, it's a great opportunity by the sounds of it.

Despite being taught in English I'm learning German anyway.

I don't like sausages though. Is there plenty of Cottage cheese in Germany?

German kitchen has a lot of great food. Mostly flesh based, but you can get around when you dont like Sausages.

Try to check out Käsespätzle when you are here.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I have doubts I could make it into a college in Germany. I'm 25 and....it seems daunting @_@ Yesterday I was sure of it but today I wake up with doubts aaaagggh.

 

[Greddleok]

I don't like sausages though. Is there plenty of Cottage cheese in Germany?

German sausages are nothing like the shit you buy in England. Also weissbier changed my life.

I have doubts I could make it into a college in Germany. I'm 25 and....it seems daunting @_@ Yesterday I was sure of it but today I wake up with doubts aaaagggh.

Where are you from? I'm 26 and am in the process of moving to Germany for a job. Going for college is a lot less permanent! I'm only moving from the UK though, so it's not a huge step geographically.

 

[JumpCancel]

German kitchen has a lot of great food. Mostly flesh based, but you can get around when you dont like Sausages.

Try to check out Käsespätzle when you are here.

Sounds great. I live off of fresh produce and mainly eat nuts, chicken, rice, milk and cheese. Pasta to satisfy my Italian DNA but overall as long as I can get fresh produce I'll be taken care of.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I have doubts I could make it into a college in Germany. I'm 25 and....it seems daunting @_@ Yesterday I was sure of it but today I wake up with doubts aaaagggh.

Its naturally Just do it. The first thought is always the best

 

[Kill Your Masters]

I am not sure if I should laugh or cry.

Laugh, definitely laugh, more quality work for us if people think German university education is at community college levels at best, just because it's basically free compared to the US.

I have doubts I could make it into a college in Germany. I'm 25 and....it seems daunting @_@ Yesterday I was sure of it but today I wake up with doubts aaaagggh.

I'm 30 and went back to finish my compsci degree in Germany a year ago while working part time.

Heck my current university approved all my old CPs and grades from another country in a matter of a few weeks.

It's not hard if you really want it.

 

[Jasup]

Sounds great. I live off of fresh produce and mainly eat nuts, chicken, rice, milk and cheese. Pasta to satisfy my Italian DNA but overall as long as I can get fresh produce I'll be taken care of.

Everything you listed is readily available.

I mean, Germans are the third biggest consumers of fruits and vegetables in the EU, there's bound to be proper supply of them.

http://www.eufic.org/article/en/expid/Fruit-vegetable-consumption-Europe/