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And the movement keeps on growing...
- Thread starter Jeff-DSA
- Start date
The funny thing about this is apparently it's all built into the controller, meaning Sony and MS will copy it later on. So Nintendo might have an edge a few months into the gen if what they have is actually going to be a huge gameplay benefit and then... not so much afterwards.
But my gut feeling says that it won't be very revolutionary at all.
Version 3.0
Member
Nintendo isn't some two-bit startup. They're sitting on something like 10 billion in cash, and almost zero liabilities. If your arguement is that they can't afford to compete, you're dead wrong. They can, easily. They choose not to. The same goes on the marketing side--Gamecube is perceived as weaker than the PS2 because Nintendo CHOSE to tell the world that was the case when they released ultra-conservative specs. If they refuse to play the spin game, then they lose by default. They don't have to lie--"in-game" specs are fine (even though their "in-game" specs were surpassed by a launch title). But they could have stated--ever--that the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2. They could have shown comparisons, given examples of "in-game" numbers for PS2, whatever. But they prefer to pretend that the competition doesn't exist, most of the time.
Version 3.0
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Having said all that in the last post, I'd like to change sides for a moment (kind of) and also point out that Nintendo has NEVER released an under-powered home console. They've all been up to par with the competition, in fact, they've always been superior, mostly because they've always been later to market. But now they seem to be indicating that the Revolution will be less powerful than a machine that will be a year old when Rev launches. That's complete BS, absolutely unacceptable. If it's true. It's hard to say. Are they making a weak machine, or is this more ultra-conservatism? I'm not sure Nintendo has even decided yet; they're probably still in price negotiations and deciding on final specs (like amount and type of RAM, which can be finalized fairly late).
IBM and ATI are making the components, and since they're new parts, not off-the-shelf, wouldn't that indicate that they're going to be right on the technology curve where they should be? If Nintendo wanted cheapo components, why pay for custom technology? IBM and ATI both have parts available that are significantly better than current-gen consoles, cheap as hell, and available in bulk. They could slap together a cheap, but perfectly capable non-HD console in no time. The fact that they're springing for a custom design leads me to believe the Rev won't be underpowered at all--it'll be perfectly capable, although designed for efficiency rather than overbearing power, to reduce cost, just like the Gamecube. No problems there--the Cube never lacked for power, just for image. I really think the Rev might end up the same--more powerful than the year-older X360, but with Nintendo unwilling to convince anyone of that fact.
IBM and ATI are making the components, and since they're new parts, not off-the-shelf, wouldn't that indicate that they're going to be right on the technology curve where they should be? If Nintendo wanted cheapo components, why pay for custom technology? IBM and ATI both have parts available that are significantly better than current-gen consoles, cheap as hell, and available in bulk. They could slap together a cheap, but perfectly capable non-HD console in no time. The fact that they're springing for a custom design leads me to believe the Rev won't be underpowered at all--it'll be perfectly capable, although designed for efficiency rather than overbearing power, to reduce cost, just like the Gamecube. No problems there--the Cube never lacked for power, just for image. I really think the Rev might end up the same--more powerful than the year-older X360, but with Nintendo unwilling to convince anyone of that fact.
The only reason I mind that the Revolution is not going to support HD like the other two next-gen systems are is because I don't want it to look all pixelated and jaggy running on my DLP HDTV... That's my biggest worry. If that's the case, I'll have to run it on an older SD TV instead by placing it next to my PS2/Dreamcast.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Wrong. You'll get away with lower fillrate but unless the nREV GPU can chuck out the same quantity of polys with the same number of shaders and have it all anti-aliased with self shadowing then it will look different. A lot different.
Having said that. I'm sure the nREV GPU will be up to the job.
Jesus some people are retarded.
All this outcry from people that don't know what the hell any of it actually MEANS.
"Nintendo is already alienating their fanbase. I have a couple hardcore Nintendo fans for friends (Yeah, I know, amazing!) and the lack of HD pisses them off. They both own HD sets and are ticked Nintendo isn't including HD support with the Revolution. Nintendo can't play this cheap ass game in the console arena."
If your 'friends' are fine with 480p gamecube games on their HDTV's then they'll be fine with the revolution.
"Non HD resolutions" means no 720p / 1080i. 480p isn't HDTV.
It's still a progressive signal, it just won't be widescreen as a forced standard and it'll have less lines of resolution that 90% of buyers won't notice are missing anyway.
I honestly think more people are going to be pissed when they hook up an Xbox 360 to their crappy ass 4:3 TV and they have to stare at a letterboxed image.
an anti-aliased 4:3 progressive image will look just fine on an HD set. The gamecube by FAR looks the best on any HDTV this generation and I would be shocked to not see the same image quality in the revolution.
All this outcry from people that don't know what the hell any of it actually MEANS.
"Nintendo is already alienating their fanbase. I have a couple hardcore Nintendo fans for friends (Yeah, I know, amazing!) and the lack of HD pisses them off. They both own HD sets and are ticked Nintendo isn't including HD support with the Revolution. Nintendo can't play this cheap ass game in the console arena."
If your 'friends' are fine with 480p gamecube games on their HDTV's then they'll be fine with the revolution.
"Non HD resolutions" means no 720p / 1080i. 480p isn't HDTV.
It's still a progressive signal, it just won't be widescreen as a forced standard and it'll have less lines of resolution that 90% of buyers won't notice are missing anyway.
I honestly think more people are going to be pissed when they hook up an Xbox 360 to their crappy ass 4:3 TV and they have to stare at a letterboxed image.
an anti-aliased 4:3 progressive image will look just fine on an HD set. The gamecube by FAR looks the best on any HDTV this generation and I would be shocked to not see the same image quality in the revolution.
Leondexter said:
You misunderstood...I wasn't arguing that Nintendo is lame and can't compete...what I was saying was, as far as mainstream perception goes, Nintendo is tiny compared to Sony & MS. Nintendo could have the best system next generation, but people WOULD NOT believe it. Hell, people perceive X-BOX 360 & PS3 as equal's despite the facts 'cos they're in denial that MS (who had the "strongest" hardware this generation) would be one-upped by Sony next generation. Likewise, 'cos of Nintendo's poor image now, it's hard for mainstreamists to believe that Revolution will be comparitivly competitive...some believe it'll just be a GCN level even!
The GCN's toylike appearance had more to do with how Nintendo was perceived more than thier lack of spinning. Nintendo is conservative and realistic when it comes to specs, but believe me, they spin just as much as Sony & MS. However, they couldn't spin their way out of how the toy-like GCN was perceived as a lil' purple kiddy machine.
Revolution looks more serious and less toy-like...THAT, right there, will do more wonders for the way people look at them more than some spec sheet that people will either not understand or won't believe 'cos Sony & MS are "bigger" companies.
My overall point was, even if Nintendo confirmed HDTV support tomorrow, the mainstreamists would still not believe it & the hardcore haters would find something else to hate on like how small (and therefore unpowerful) it is or how the controller will be a gimmick (wether it is or not).
AniHawk said:
We don't know for certain that it's ALL built into the controller. The hardware itself may have to be optimized in a way the competition can't copy Nintendo with. There's been rumors of a seperate PPU in Revolution for a while now...maybe it's hardware needed to make the gyro interface and/or stereo scopic 3D more immersive???
Besides, I don't think the "revolution" will be one lil' thing copyable by a controller upgrade...I think there's several revolutions all wrapped together.
Back on topic. I think Nintendo will support HDTV in some way, maybe not as good as the competition, but if 480p games slipped out on GCN, I seriously doubt Nintendo will prevent 720p (totally technically possible on Revolution I'm sure) games from slipping out on Revolution. The output of the Revolution is suppossedly the digital multi-out on early GCN's afterall.
I think this is a great point that I haven't heard much discussion of (unless 360 titles will offer a toggle between 16:9 and 4:3, that is), especially considering how many people I know who hate "TEH BLACK BARS" when they watch widescreen DVDs that they bought by mistake.Vark said:
Vark said:
PREACH IT!
Seriously, weren't there some HDTV GAFers who were singing the praises of Metroid Prime in progressive (480p) on their HDTV's? What makes you think Revolution is suddenly gonna look worse???
Why is it that one of the first things Nintendo mentioned about the Revolution was that you could hook it up to a PC monitor if it's gonna output merely SDTV (480i) signals? Why is it that there is a digital multi-out on the back of the Revolution but people STILL think it's going to only be SDTV (480i)? Why do people think 480i & 480p are the same, when they clearly aren't?
The untrained naked eye of casual gamers won't be able to tell the difference between some HDTV resolutions anyways. However, I think alot of them (who still own only SDTV's) will raise hell about the X-BOX 360's forced letterbox format...Example: Wallmart customers who bitched to studios about making full screen DVD's *when all they have to do is press the zoom button* on their DVD remote if they hate letterbox!!!
Why aren't people also jumping down MS's throat for not including a HiDef disc format...afterall, X-BOX 360 is the "HD era" machine???
Vark said:
The Gamecube looks "by FAR" the greatest? What exactly are you basing this on? Personally, I'd give that honor to the Xbox. Ninja Gaiden in 480p looks better than any GC game in 480p.
And, as good as some of the GC games look in 480p, they don't look nearly as good as something like Gran Turismo 4 or MX Unleashed in 1080i.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Why do you need HD when Revolution is using VR helmets?
Version 3.0
Member
Thanks! What's the DS club? I have a DS, and even have two imported games for it (Polarium and Daigasso! Band Bros). Does that make me worthy?
Version 3.0
Member
I doubt that--people believe what they're told. Since Nintendo's never even tried to convince anyone that their machine is more powerful, the assumption is it's the weakest. Its appearance really hurt, too. The Rev looks slick as hell, and I do think they could claim it's the greatest thing ever and have people believe it. I guess we'll never know, though, since they're not going to try this time, either. They're almost doing the opposite.
I wouldn't worry about the "hardcore haters". But the mainstream? Yes, they can be convinced. If they're exposed to some marketing that says the Rev is the most powerful, they'll get it in their heads, and at least ask someone who might know (even if it's a sales clerk). If it really is the most powerful, and Nintendo tried to spread the word, it would spread. I agree that Sony or Microsoft has an easier time in this field, because of Sony's electronics name brand and Microsoft's money, but it could be done. A simple message like "We know games. Our game machine is the most powerful on the planet!" would do wonders. It would certainly be better than their current trend of "Our machine is going to be weak, but that's okay".
I sold all my consoles(ps2,cube,gba,dreamcast) this gen, but I'll definitely pick up a revolution, mostly for the backlog of GCN games I didn't play after selling my cube. If it hooks up to computer monitors hassle-free, I'll actually pre-order one.
I hope revolution is really different from what current consoles are like. And I really hope the controller does come in two halves and has that motion/distance-from-console detection so you can do stuff like use them to block with a shield/swing sword in Zelda.
As for HD support, I don't really care because I don't own a HD-tv nor do I plan on buying one until they come down in price. Heck, I don't even care about graphics too much any more. When it comes to console games, as long it looks as good as or better than Devil May Cry, I'll play it! :lol
I hope revolution is really different from what current consoles are like. And I really hope the controller does come in two halves and has that motion/distance-from-console detection so you can do stuff like use them to block with a shield/swing sword in Zelda.
As for HD support, I don't really care because I don't own a HD-tv nor do I plan on buying one until they come down in price. Heck, I don't even care about graphics too much any more. When it comes to console games, as long it looks as good as or better than Devil May Cry, I'll play it! :lol
people that shop at Walmart and hate black bars on movies = mouth breathers
I don't know about the rest of you, but my 4:3 TV supports 16:9 enhanced mode (refocuses the gun so all the vertical res is used up on the picture, not the black bars, and any game (or movie) that can support it gets put in widescreen.
reguardless, I highly doubt that the x360 or PS3 will not support standard 4:3.
I don't know about the rest of you, but my 4:3 TV supports 16:9 enhanced mode (refocuses the gun so all the vertical res is used up on the picture, not the black bars, and any game (or movie) that can support it gets put in widescreen.
reguardless, I highly doubt that the x360 or PS3 will not support standard 4:3.
Alot of people here make fun of Nintendo fans, and that's fine, but you make yourself look stupid by ragging on a machine that has no CONFIRMED DATA out on it.
I for one know not a damn thing about it, but that it's small, and doesn't support HD right now. There may be reasons behind this, NONE OF US know about.
I don't care what the hell it does, as long as Nintendo maintains the same high quality of games. That's what matters to GAMERS. The quality of the product.
As for Nintendo havng some sort of inferior product, history does NOT support that. The NES was on level with everything out there, the Snes was a beast, the N64 was a better machine then the PS1, and the Gamecube has the BEST LOOKING GAME OUT FOR ANY CONSOLE(RE4).
Nintendo made the analog stick mainstream, the shoulder buttons, the rumble pack, wireless that WORKS, and many many more.
You want to rag on Nintendo? Fine, but do it in a way that MAKES SENCE.
I expect them to once again innovate something great with the Revolution, as they have done with almost all of thier consoles.
One last thing, Nintendo has just as much expendable cash(If not more so) as the other two companys, becuase they make the most off of videogames. Everyone knows that they have the money. They are not some small company, they are a giant and can afford to do whatever they want.
So they release a press clipping that says they won't support HD, and all you Nintendo-haters come out of the woodwork. I got an idea, GO PLAY YOUR PS3, AND XBOX 360 with the analog sticks, shoulder buttons, kick-ass wireless, and the PAD ITSELF, and remeber were that SHIT CAME FROM.
Done.
I for one know not a damn thing about it, but that it's small, and doesn't support HD right now. There may be reasons behind this, NONE OF US know about.
I don't care what the hell it does, as long as Nintendo maintains the same high quality of games. That's what matters to GAMERS. The quality of the product.
As for Nintendo havng some sort of inferior product, history does NOT support that. The NES was on level with everything out there, the Snes was a beast, the N64 was a better machine then the PS1, and the Gamecube has the BEST LOOKING GAME OUT FOR ANY CONSOLE(RE4).
Nintendo made the analog stick mainstream, the shoulder buttons, the rumble pack, wireless that WORKS, and many many more.
You want to rag on Nintendo? Fine, but do it in a way that MAKES SENCE.
I expect them to once again innovate something great with the Revolution, as they have done with almost all of thier consoles.
One last thing, Nintendo has just as much expendable cash(If not more so) as the other two companys, becuase they make the most off of videogames. Everyone knows that they have the money. They are not some small company, they are a giant and can afford to do whatever they want.
So they release a press clipping that says they won't support HD, and all you Nintendo-haters come out of the woodwork. I got an idea, GO PLAY YOUR PS3, AND XBOX 360 with the analog sticks, shoulder buttons, kick-ass wireless, and the PAD ITSELF, and remeber were that SHIT CAME FROM.
Done.
Ugh, don't bring out that tired logic. "A TRUE gamer doesn't care about graphics or presentation!" The truth of the matter is, good presentation and solid visuals do contribute to the overall quality of the product. A good game is a good game, but it can become better though higher quality presentation...such as support for HD resolutions.moku said:
Oh boy.
My point of the post is that no one knows what the hell the revolution is. It would make sence to know what something is before you completely dismiss it.human5892 said:
It may not need HD support.
And as for your point about good visuals, I agree. But like I said in my post, RE4 on the Gamecube is the best looking current gen game. If the Gamecube was some underpowered hunk of shit, it would make sence to say the Revolution will be underpowered, archaic, e.t.c..
I am just going to wait, and let everyone battle it out in some sort of retarded Pro/against NIntendo fight to the death.
Good luck!
ImNotLikeThem
Member
It connects to a TV, so HD is nothing more than beneficial. The "revolution" is not going that have anything to do with magical displays that float in the air, and as long as that is true, HD support should be a must for any device in the next few years.moku said:
Leondexter said:
Back when it was the "Dolphin" Howard Lincoln said: "We're absolutly possitive that Dolphin's graphics will excede anything that Sony can come up with for PS2." Later NP magazine said: "Dolphin will leave Nintendo's competitor's in it's wake!" Those are just off the top of my head, and similar comments were made about "Project Reality" (Ultra 64, N64). The X-BOX unveiling sorta stuffed Nintendo's power touting though.
Point is, Nintendo DID say "Dolphin" was going to be a powerful machine, but when it was finally unveiled, casual DID NOT and WOULD NOT believe. Why, 'cos PS2 and X-BOX were more serious looking, hulking masses of manly machinery in thier eyes. Yes Nintendo was modest, but deep down they were telling the world that GCN was a powerful machine, but no one listened 'cos it didn't look serious enough to make such a claim.
You're right, Revolution is a more serious looking machine than GCN which is a good thing, but no amount of Nintendo hyping it as either powerful or it being revolutionary (as they've been saying all along) will convince people when thier competitors are more seriously recognized as technology giants! Nintendo needs to do what the competition does...LIE...all companies do it: Blast Processing, all mad cow meat still has a "Grade A" sticker on it, beer will get you friends, good times and lot's of "action", etc. Americaner's are stupid, they'll believe anything if you're a good enough lier...
If Nintendo truly is looking to only go with 480p, then they need to sell it on the fact that it looks good on *ANY* TV so as to grab the cheap-ass gamer. Nostalgia gaming goes along with that...there IS a market for this. Might as well, 'cos people aren't gonna believe it's a powerful machine until they play it anyways, might as well hook them in on a cheaper price and convince them that way. All this talk of power & HDTV is rediculous anyways, we don't even know the specs yet...and look at PS2, it's the least powerful this generation, yet it didn't hinder it's marketshare or mindshare did it?
I'm basing it on my personal experience with a HDTV a Gamecube and an Xbox. The Gamecubes hardware output is simply more bright vibrant and crisp no doubt in thanks to a dedicated digital output. Ninja Gaiden looks good as a game, but I'm strictly talking about the video and image quality, which even on Ninja Gaiden is a tad soft.
To my understanding all Xbox 360 (edited for clarification) games are 720p which means they're all made with a 16:9 aspect ratio in mind. Unless the developer wants to spend the time making 4:3 friendly versions of their content (menus, etc) it'd be a lot cheaper and easier to just letterbox it.
Chiggs
Gold Member
Vark said:
From the IGN Xbox 360 FAQ:
Will Xbox 360 output HD and/or 16:9 video?
Yes. In fact, at E3 this year, Microsoft is requiring anyone showing an Xbox 360 game to run said game on a display with a native resolution of at least 720p. HD Era indeed. 720p and 1080i are both supported out of the box and are the preferred gaming resolutions, though 480p and 480i will obviously be supported as well.
It's also said that every game is to be designed with widescreen in mind.
What about standard analog 4:3 TV owners?
Analog TV owners needn't fret. 480i will continue to be a supported output resolution; it would be suicide not to have it. But even when playing on a 4:3 display, games will run in widescreen by default, though gamers will have the option to switch to 4:3 should they so choose. Designers are very much encouraged to design their games so that they're playable in a 4:3 ratio, with dialog text, HUDs and those sorts of things appearing properly at 4:3.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/608/608394p4.html
It should be interesting to see how developers treat standard 4:3 televisions initially.
Vark said:
Well, I disagree but a lot of it is subjective. Personally, I haven't seen a GC game that looks more crisp and clear on my HDTV than Ninja Gaiden. Granted, I don't play that many GC games. In fact, since I got my HDTV, I think I've only played F-Zero, SSBM, and RE4...none of which looked better than Ninja Gaiden...or DOA Ultimate for that matter.
God's Hand
Banned
I played Burnout 3 on an Xbox connected to a DLP at 480p and it was projected on like... a 100 inch wall. After seeing the quality of it, I can honestly say I won't entirely miss HDTV on Revolution after I buy a DLP.