You're still salty over their Sporefoken video huh?
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Are sites like DF hurting the industry more than helping?
- Thread starter LordOcidax
- Start date
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fart town usa
Gold Member
I think they do a good job with giving developers feed back on issues they find but I get annoyed at how negative they can be towards certain AA games and other random things. They come off as elitist at times. I do like them as a whole though.
scarlet0pimp
Member
I personally find that discussion of the technical side of gaming intreasting. Also I find it intreasting how developers use specific hardware and how that hardware has different strengths.
The retro stuff is also intreasting, I like seeing how developers managed to squeeze arcade games onto 8 bit consoles and home PCs.
Its a shame that videos from DF tend to turn into battlegrounds. I must admit I did find the console war that erupted after the xbox 1 and PS4 were announced quite funny some of the memes that came out. Nowerdays though it's just exhausting you can't read anything at all without some sort of console warrior bringing up how their machine is better in some way.
The retro stuff is also intreasting, I like seeing how developers managed to squeeze arcade games onto 8 bit consoles and home PCs.
Its a shame that videos from DF tend to turn into battlegrounds. I must admit I did find the console war that erupted after the xbox 1 and PS4 were announced quite funny some of the memes that came out. Nowerdays though it's just exhausting you can't read anything at all without some sort of console warrior bringing up how their machine is better in some way.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
It's a video game website. OP lives in a bubble. 99.99999% of people have no idea what the fuck Digital Foundry is.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
If you knew a thing about coding you'd realize that nothing is ever finished, just abandoned.
ZoukGalaxy
Member
I personally don't give a single shit about them, honestly.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
and hogwarts stance.
They are populists and casuals eat it up.
I have my own opinions because I played all the generations, I waited years for gsync monitors. I grew to know ho bad vsync is and how bad tearing is. How there was no middle ground.
But I also grew to accept 30fps and learn there is bad and good type of it. all my experiences and formed opinions.
Kids nowadays don't know what tearing is and what gsync is for and what any of that is. They just know and trust that df tells them this is bad and this is good.
Anyway, it's good what they do but telling they are enthusiast website is like telling Linus is for tech enthusiast.
Sure, i like to know framerate and resolution targets of those games but in the grand scheme, I know what it entails and what to do with this information
SoloCamo
Member
A lot of stutter in their videos, too.
They've done multiple videos on Hogwarts though, people being angry because John didn't want to do it because he doesn't like the franchise and had no interest in it is just some weak ass excuse. Believe it or not there are people who didn't like Harry Potter BEFORE it became a culture war thing, myself included!
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
after what? almost 2 months after release when the pressure lowered and they wouldnt be canceled by ree mob?
cowards.
John tweet was a cop out and you know it. Anyway it's not about it. It's about DF as a concept. not john or politics
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Bro it was NINE DAYS
Hogwarts Legacy - Wikipedia
- PS5, Windows, XSX/S
- 10 February 2023
374,277 views 19 Feb 2023
And Rich stated in the video that they were asked by WB to wait until the first patch dropped to judge the performance properly.
Look how damn far off you were man!
edit: Maybe you were thinking of the LAST GEN review they did?
161,319 views 10 May 2023
Or perhaps the Switch version?
278,262 views 18 Nov 2023
Wow, for a game you keep saying they didn't cover I'm sure as hell dragging up some impossible videos then!
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Bro it was NINE DAYS
Hogwarts Legacy - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
- PS5, Windows, XSX/S
- 10 February 2023
374,277 views 19 Feb 2023
And Rich stated in the video that they were asked by WB to wait until the first patch dropped to judge the performance properly.
Look how damn far off you were man!
hmmm ok maybe I misremember.
but 9 days for the biggest game of the year with interesting tech is light years.
while other games get coverage before release.
And rich statement doesn't matter. every dev asks for that.
They were scared to cover it and that's it. Bugaga is ree and john was also ree
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
How on earth would they be hurting the industry? They’re one of the few publications that operates primarily on data and objectivity. That’s not to say they don’t inject some subjectivity into their content, but it’s usually noted and inconsequential.
I’m a fan of DF based purely on their content, and I wish more publications would hold themselves to at least that amount of scrutiny. I mean shit, have you ever visited Kotaku? THAT’S a site that damages the industry.
I’m a fan of DF based purely on their content, and I wish more publications would hold themselves to at least that amount of scrutiny. I mean shit, have you ever visited Kotaku? THAT’S a site that damages the industry.
No you were flat out wrong, for a game they "didn't cover" they've done MULTIPLE videos for, and for a review they "didn't do for two months until after release" they did barely a week later. Face it, your own bias here lead to you spouting misinformation.
daninthemix
Member
They do trivialise people's precious consoles, which causes a lot of butthurt.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
oh fuck off will you. you bring this up. I didn't bring up hogwarts and john in this topic. you did.
I don't have to remember anything on your fucking command.
This thread is about something different and I explained it in previous posts.
Death of critical thinking and people having opinions that are not really their own. Stop with the hogwarts bullshit. 9 days or 2 months it's the same. They didn't want to anger ree crowd. stop the discussion
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
Oh good Christ I’m sorry I even responded to this thread. How didn’t I know it would devolve into some woke/anti-woke bullshit that GAF is unhealthily obsessed with. It’d be pretty fuckin cool to have conversations about the game industry without it always devolving into some political stance or whatever. Shit is getting tiring for people like me who just do not care about either side and want to talk about games.
gaming_again
Member
Go and try reading about how Dragon's Dogma 2 plays in the specific Dragon's Dogma 2 thread.
They do help a lot as a PC player imo. When it comes to consoles I've just seen people take the videos as console war bait. Though, it's not as bad as it used to be, since given the console architectures now, everything is more straightforward with a simple hierarchy. Xbox Series X, PS5, Series S, Switch. PS5 Pro, will be the top of that list I imagine, but the hierarchy maintains.
The only people I can imagine getting too upset about their breakdowns, are console war types, or gatekeeper types. Or anal types I guess, since DF do make small fuckups every now and then. But we're talking about gaming enthusiasts. The gaming industry on a whole doesn't actually care about DF, for DF to actually 'hurt' the game industry.
The only people I can imagine getting too upset about their breakdowns, are console war types, or gatekeeper types. Or anal types I guess, since DF do make small fuckups every now and then. But we're talking about gaming enthusiasts. The gaming industry on a whole doesn't actually care about DF, for DF to actually 'hurt' the game industry.
Fredrik
Member
I actually know a thing about coding but games now are pushed out the door far too early, post-release patches has been completely normalized, most games are patched for half a year. DF is useful to state how bad things are.
Fbh
Member
No, why would they?
Console warriors will do their warring either way.
For the rest of us they give us information about games which can help us make a more informed purchase.
It's also good to have someone that can actually quantify the technical shortcomings, specially on consoles. Otherwise we'd have to rely on unspecific and biased online options like "it looks blurry" or "it has drops".
Also, as others have mentioned, they don't have the power over the industry that OP seems to be suggesting. 90% of the gaming audience, specially on consoles, doesn't give a shit about things like resolution and performance.
Console warriors will do their warring either way.
For the rest of us they give us information about games which can help us make a more informed purchase.
It's also good to have someone that can actually quantify the technical shortcomings, specially on consoles. Otherwise we'd have to rely on unspecific and biased online options like "it looks blurry" or "it has drops".
Also, as others have mentioned, they don't have the power over the industry that OP seems to be suggesting. 90% of the gaming audience, specially on consoles, doesn't give a shit about things like resolution and performance.
simpatico
Member
Giving people semi arbitrary things to complain about with a release, that they otherwise would not have known to complain about. I've been gaming since C64. We've always had games in every gen that didn't perform as well as other (on a tech level). Same for PC hardware. There were games a GTX 280, 480, 680, 1080 and 4080 could not run smoothly at launch. Same for SNES, PSX, PS2 etc. It's like people are chasing something that's never existed. A console or PC that can run any piece of shit you throw in it at a native res and refresh.
If someone is really bored, it would be cool to make a spreadsheet. Top 100 games from every gen with frame rate and render resolution stats. I wonder which gen got the closest to the holy grail... any guesses?
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Humdinger
Member
No, it's not the site that hurts it. It's videogamers themselves -- the type who are perfectionistic and competitive about tiny graphical nuances, stuff that doesn't matter, stuff the normal gamer doesn't even notice, and acts as if that's more important than gameplay, narrative, pace, bloat, etc.. DF is just filling a niche, catering to these types, the guys we used to call "graphic whores." I hold them at least partly responsible for the extremely expensive, technically impressive, and soulless games we have been getting.
But it's not DF. They are not the problem. They just capitalizing on a desire in the market to hear about this minutae.
But it's not DF. They are not the problem. They just capitalizing on a desire in the market to hear about this minutae.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
What generic statement. Insert almost any YouTube channel in this argument and you wouldn’t be wrong.
I guess there are be try few channels for stupid enthusiasts.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Maybe this is more of a statement for internet and how society works nowadays more than DF, sure.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Oh, I forgot to add... Alex's entitlement when talking about PC ports it´s so frickig annoying,
mortal
Gold Member
How is that onus on them? They cannot control the actions of other people. I think their influence on the industry is being overly exaggerated here.
They're just putting out technical analysis/review-style content, as well as sharing their impressions and opinions on games and tech, which isn't much different from what other outlets do.
They're not infallible, so like anyone else, what they put out is open to disagreement or reasonable criticism when warranted.
As others have pointed out, they cover the technical aspects of games in a way that is fairly accessible for the layman, like myself and many others.
Not everyone engages with content the same way. I simply like knowing how well a title runs on a given platform, and they're one of several resources I turn to when considering new game purchases.
Beyond that, I just appreciate how well-produced a lot of their videos are, particularly John Linneman's DF Retro series and how he covers older games and hardware.
I never once felt compelled to engage in platform wars bullshit after watching any of their videos, and I'm sure the majority of their audience falls into that camp.
thismeinteil
Member
They're obviously biased. However, overall I don't think they really affect the industry one way or another.
simpatico
Member
It's not. DF isn't doing any wrong. DF didn't imply there was a performance panic, the social media panic accelerator machine did. I think there is a wider array of gamers complaining about performance now. I've been complaining about it for ages and it's noticeable when there's more people complaining with you. Compared to the perf of the PS360 gen, we're living the good life. PC games had way more weirdness, especially ports. 360 and PS3 were under 720p30 on most titles (with horrendous screen tearing and shimmering). DF just attaches hard numbers to it. Which I think helps that viral spread because "number low = thing bad" that everyone naturally does. I don't think they're shit stirrers or anyting close to that. They didn't do anything wrong, but they helped cause a bad thing. Life really do be like that sometimes. /oscarbaitmovie When you tack on the fact people are regularly buying $1,900 GPUs now, when Titans use to be $500, I guess I can see why they're shooting for higher standards lol.
There's a lot to complain about with modern gaming, but perf is finally low on my list (but I swear I would trade back in a heartbeat). Sure we get some stinkers. I haven't look too hard at the DD2 numbers yet but at a glance it looked no different than Elden Ring or Cyberpunk. s'normal. It's gonna be ok.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The truth is there's never been a time when all games published ran well! The nearest we got to that would be the 16-bit console era when the sprite plus tile-playfield hardware paradigm did most of the heavy lifting and so performance across games of similar types was quite close.
Moving to 3d the guard-rails are off comparatively, even when using third-party engines results vary wildly because workload has massive impact -particularly when confined to fixed spec hardware.
I just feel like people look at this the wrong way. Its like now we're out of the cross-gen window games get punished for not looking better than previous gen titles AND for not running as smoothly as a last-gen specced title running on current gen hardware!
Newsflash: Pick one or the other!
Performance even with perfect efficiency depends on workload. Workload variance is a product of game design and functional constraint. And the closer "normal" performance corresponds with the peak capability i.e. "how well they make use of the hardware", the more times the peaks are going to drag frame-rate down.
Expecting perfection is unrealistic, there will always be trade-offs. The biggest one of which is of course what can be done in development time.
Games that are worked on and patched months or years after initial launch improve. Well, duh!
The problem is that people see the results of what an excess of time, or hardware power can achieve, then think that should somehow be representative of what's always to be expected under normal, non-ideal conditions.
Its ass-backwards thinking!
Be realistic instead. Because nothing will, or indeed can, really change. Its the nature of the task.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Comparison is the thief of joy.
They are a scourge.
They are a scourge.
CloudShiner
Member
DF stands for Dick Fuckers, or so I've been told.
I only watch to see "Three Chins" Linneman simp on LG TVs any fucking chance he gets. Better not say any more about him as his skin is thinner than air.
Dude is nearly as fucked up as "Scarface" Battaglia with his cringe woke elitism, and then you have "Teeth" Leadbetter chortling away like a dumb schoolboy laughing at nothing.
Other than that, they're ok.
I only watch to see "Three Chins" Linneman simp on LG TVs any fucking chance he gets. Better not say any more about him as his skin is thinner than air.
Dude is nearly as fucked up as "Scarface" Battaglia with his cringe woke elitism, and then you have "Teeth" Leadbetter chortling away like a dumb schoolboy laughing at nothing.
Other than that, they're ok.
Fredrik
Member
I get what you’re saying but patching a game after release is a fairly new thing, started popping up when devs saw that a majority of people started connecting their consoles to the internet, probably late 360 generation.
When all we had was cassette tapes, floppies, cartridges, CDs etc and no internet connection it wasn’t an option. At that time they had to know for sure that what they had was good before putting it in the physical media. And how many big releases do you remember was bad enough that you felt they needed a fix? Maybe my memory is bad but I barely remember anything.
Today the best strategy would be to wait like 6 months before playing a game. But FOMO can be a thing, and internet can spoil a story as well, so often we end up jumping in far too early and won’t see how great a game finally is when the patching is finished unless we replay it.
DF often find faults that are later fixed by devs, they even communicate directly with devs, so why not send DF the game for analysis before the release?
Being a dev and seeing the problems shown in detail at the release day must be awful. Seeing faults listed in a big website review they know won’t be updated after patches must be even worse, a low score will stay no matter what they do and we know a low metascore can affect sales.
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Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
I overall like their content, but they did a bad job sucking Microsoft so hard at start of this gen. It was so tiresome to watch and it didn’t end well. They still questioning themselves to this day how the PS5 performs overall better than the Series X. The bullshit around the Pro CPU might bite them little next year.
Futaleufu
Member
I used to watch their DF Retro videos that had real insight and described how games were programmed and how they used hardware on the most efficient way. Then they jumped the shark with the episode about Star Wars games for the SNES that didnt do anything interesting with the SNES hardware and was 100% clickbait.
