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[Peroroncino]

All these threads about lay-offs, I keep seeing people posting all over internet that industry is doomed/fucked etc. and I just can't seem to see it.

First off, does it suck for the people? Of course. We can only hope it mostly affects pink haired employees and all the other crazies, but some functional adults are gonna be affected as well, sucks all around, for all of them, even the weirdos.

But I wouldn't say industry is fucked. There are more games coming out then ever. Lots of record breaking happening at companies, be it CCU, sales etc. For every closed studio, 2 other studios sprout, indies are pushed out by the truckload.

The way I see it, lay-offs are mostly the result of too big of an expansion maaaany studios and companies did during covid when the market balooned. They crunched numbers, read the tea leaves, all pointing at number of people buying/playing games going UP. But when it became clear post-covid that even keeping a significant chunk of newcomers who turned to games during quarantine is not an option, those numbers fell apart pretty quickly.

Companies hired a lot of devs to speed up their pipeline, some straight up bought other studios, all just dying to capitalize on the bubble that formed, only for it to burst the moment covid craziness neared its end. And since companies actually do try to be profitable, or as close to that as you can get, they know how much people they need to employ based on projected engagement/sales. Now with AI on board, I'm pretty sure most companies know what they're doing (there are exceptions of course lol) and how much people they're gonna need. I wouldn't be surprised if some companies hired people knowing full well they're gonna lay the off at a later date.

Embracer was probably the biggest loser, since the moment Saudis noped out of the investment, they knew they were REALLY fucked after the aggressive expansion they did, hence they're selling off a lot of shit now.

But anyway, that's my opinion, what do you all think? Are we really heading straight for another big crash, is it just fearmongering from gaming bloggers like kotaku etc., or maybe is it something else?

 

[Calverz]

I think we are in for big changes around the AAA model. They have just become too costly and take too long to make. Gamers expectations are also too high around AAA. I can see future AAA titles being reserved for big GAAS titles and single player experiences going down to AA or something. But AI may change this course considerably. If that continues to improve this may help mitigate costs and time towards the current AAA experience.

 

[Robb]

No, times are tough in general and the industry is adjusting to it. But adjustments are all there is to it, a crash isn’t even on the map imo.

 

[Peroroncino]

I think we are in for big changes around the AAA model. They have just become too costly and take too long to make. Gamers expectations are also too high around AAA. I can see future AAA titles being reserved for big GAAS titles and single player experiences going down to AA or something. But AI may change this course considerably. If that continues to improve this may help mitigate costs and time towards the current AAA experience.

Yeah for all the fearmongering we get from gaming bloggers, I do believe AI has the potential to significantly improve the pace at which games are made. I also don't belive it's gonna come at the cost of artistic vision, I'm sure there's more than enough menial stuff can be delegated to AI.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

There are plenty of money to be made. The market has matured, sure, so there isn't going to be infinite growth anymore. Anyone who wanted to play games can play games. So it is all about cost control, efficiency, and target your games towards specific markets.

One thing is uncertain, which is how long Xbox to stay on the hardware market. I say that because for as long as Xbox hangs on, it would be hard for anyone new to join. As it were Xbox is on borrowed time, as soon as they go SEGA, the market would shift again.

Yeah for all the fearmongering we get from gaming bloggers, I do believe AI has the potential to significantly improve the pace at which games are made. I also don't belive it's gonna come at the cost of artistic vision, I'm sure there's more than enough menial stuff can be delegated to AI.

The Art Department simply got too large. I like to describe modern AAA gaming like trying to paint on a canvas the size of a billboard. AI can cut the number of artists down to manageable numbers like they were used to.

 

[Denton]

There are tons of games coming out, that are not finding audience big enough to even recoup their budgets, let alone make profit.
Too many games are being made for the size of the purchasing audience.
So the market has to recalibrate to find some equilibrium. That is likely to mean lot of people currently working in the gaming industry, leaving it.
But game industry as such is not going anywhere.

 

[The Cockatrice]

For big games? Yes. We're getting less and less AAAAAA+ games per year and when we do, you have to toss a coin between being a classic amazing gameplay/story like we used to get from Sony, or absolute GAAS trash.

For indies? No. It's going incredibly well for small studios and honestly they are dominating right now.

 

[Maddoxswe]

I would like to add two options to the poll, if you think the gaming is in trouble what is your primary console, Xbox or Playstation. I'm pretty sure the people who think the industry is in trouble tends to the green side

 

[LectureMaster]

Not really worried about lay off , it's more like companies scaling back to normal after over expansion during the pandemic.

Shits like Sweet Baby Inc. are the real plagues that are corrupting the industry in the west. It requires much more than a curator to change the direction of culture.

 

[Peroroncino]

I would like to add two options to the poll, if you think the gaming is in trouble what is your primary console, Xbox or Playstation. I'm pretty sure the people who think the industry is in trouble tends to the green side

I'm sure that plays a certain factor, but honestly I see doom and gloom from both sides of the aisle.

The green bastards are up in arms now more than ever due to "selling out to the enemy", whereas the blue fuckers are angry about not enough AAA exclusives and PC ports. ;]

 

[crackajack]

The AAA modell is f'ed. Very much like Marvel movies (and even more so DC), they forgot how to make fun gameplay and or stories first and think throwing money at it, the MS way, will solve anything. With writers growing up on teletubbies and having to conform to insane woke standards, especially western studios are in a bad place, but most international publishers push for the same just weird and boring writing.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

My concern is how 5-10 junk games can essentially suck up all the market share and mind share of the gaming audience these days (Fortnite, COD, GTA, EA Sports, Minecraft etc....). There are loads of kids in my family aged 8-15 who play games and basically none of them are interested in narrative driven games and just want to play a handful of the same online games.

Back when me and my friends were that age in the 90s and 00s we were playing a wide variety of games. Plenty of narrative games and plenty of co-up games in good balance.

I'm not concerned about lay offs, this is a natural correction. I'm not concerned about console sales, Playstation and Switch are selling very well.

The PC market looks strong.

The woke push is lame but it's not really impacting Japanese games in the same way as games made in the West so not too bothered about that for now.

The industry metrics and numbers don't matter. It's all just noise and a waste of time thinking about it. What matters more I think is what direction the audience is going.

Like overall gaming as an art form to experience unique narratives/stories and characters in an interesting world, with mythology etc... might be on the way out as the kids don't seem interested and they are the future audience.

So the art might die and it's all just going to a horrible engagement simulator - mindlessly playing the same game for 10 years farming loot with nothing to take away from the experience after you put the controller down. That's gross!!!

 

[Shits_McGiggles]

I think the Western games industry is in trouble. Japan and to a lesser extent, China and Korea, not so much.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

No.

People just knee-jerk to every single thing nowadays.

I'd even go as far as to say that since Xbox has fucked up, it's now #GamingIndustryToo.

 

[Optimus Lime]

I would like to add two options to the poll, if you think the gaming is in trouble what is your primary console, Xbox or Playstation. I'm pretty sure the people who think the industry is in trouble tends to the gen side

 

[Shits_McGiggles]

Regarding lay offs not too concerned.

But am concerned at how 5-10 games can essentially suck up all the market share and mind share of the gaming audience these days (Fortnite, COD, GTA, Fifa, Minecraft etc....). There are loads of kids in my family aged 8-15 who play games and basically none of them are interested in narrative driven games and just want to play a handful of the same online games.

Back when me and my friends were that age in the 90s and 00s we were playing a wide variety of games. Plenty of narrative games and plenty of co-up games in good balance.

I'm not concerned about lay offs, this is a natural correction.

I'm not concerned about console sales, Playstation and Switch are selling very well.

The PC market looks strong.

The woke push is still weak and it's not really impacting Japanese games in the same way as games made in the West so not too bothered about that for now.

But overall gaming as an art form to experience unique narratives/stories and characters in an interesting world, with mythology etc... might be on the way out as the kids don't seem interest and they are the future audience. Let's see but am feeling quite pessimistic on this front!

The narratives in games suck nowadays, and they lack the compelling gameplay to keep kids interested. All I see with a lot of these narrative games is that they would rather be movies than video games.

 

[Banjo64]

The issue I’ve got is that the job cuts will only be temporary and as soon as studios can they will balloon in size again.

 

[Superkewl]

I don't believe so. Things are definitely turbulent at the moment, but I suspect we are witnessing a paradigm shift in the industry, much like we saw with the music industry in the late 90's/early 2000's. I believe a combination of rising interest rates, VC money drying up, the pandemic changing the way we think and do things, all the layoffs and what appears to be the woke/identity politics pendulum beginning to swing back, is causing the industry to pivot.

If the triple A market crashed, we would still have the indie scene to help fill the void and believe the remaining large studios/publishers would scale back their efforts, and focus on putting out games more akin to what we would consider AA games by our current standards.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

The narratives in games suck nowadays, and they lack the compelling gameplay to keep kids interested. All I see with a lot of these narrative games is that they would rather be movies than video games.

There's nothing wrong with that if there's a good balance between gameplay, world building, narrative and other elements. Games since the 90s went down this path with great success as the artists were able to express themselves with all the extra power on PC and consoles. It's naturally continued since with each generation.

If compelling gameplay means investing a 1000 hours playing Minecraft or Call of Duty with nothing meaningful to take away from that time before the next time sink game comes out then I think eventually the industry will move away from what some of the legacy gaming audience wants (us 90s crew) and replaced with more engagement simulators. I think that's where the industry is going so I'll bow out if/when it fully commits to that path.

 

[GymWolf]

Not really.

We just have to survive the woke mind virus phase, but that is just a writing thing, games have more to offer compared to movies (thank god).

 

[Wildebeest]

Millennials are the boomers of the games industry. There will be a lot of screaming and end of the world doomerism as they are forcibly extracted from being in control of the purse strings by market forces.

 

[killatopak]

Gaming, financially, has been trending upward. It’s not doing bad at all.

My personal issue the direction it is heading. It’s going further away from what I prefer.

 

[March Climber]

My concern is how 5-10 junk games can essentially suck up all the market share and mind share of the gaming audience these days (Fortnite, COD, GTA, EA Sports, Minecraft etc....). There are loads of kids in my family aged 8-15 who play games and basically none of them are interested in narrative driven games and just want to play a handful of the same online games.

Back when me and my friends were that age in the 90s and 00s we were playing a wide variety of games. Plenty of narrative games and plenty of co-up games in good balance.

Counterpoint: A large number of gaming’s 2000s audiences, when playing with friends or discussing games, gravitated to their own version of 5-10 most popular (Rockband/Guitar Hero, Halo, GTA, EA Sports, CoD…etc.)

The guitar games and Halo got old and replaced.

I know a ton of people who left gaming once Guitar Hero/Rockband were gone, and they played just those two titles including their expansions for a decade. It didn’t matter for the big picture, and your listed games don’t matter in that big picture either. There will always be something new.

 

[balls of snow]

AAA games as we know it. Big trouble.
We gonna see less of them. Back to 2010-2014 where there was only 3-4 big AAA games for fall and the summer is draught season.

 

[SmokedMeat]

The traditional AAA industry is fucked. Everything else should be fine.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Depends on the context in which you define "trouble". Economically, no the industry is doing fine, just some restructuring and consolidation going on. Business as usual.

Creatively though, that's another story. But this goes only for the Western produced and developed games, not the Asian companies. And it's the same shit for film, music and other media in the West as well, not just games. Of course at least part of it is highly subjective, culture wars and all. But I personally can't help noticing a steep decline in general quality of writing, story telling and innovation in areas besides graphical/technological advancements having been gaming since the early 90s.

 

[fart town usa]

Clearly something is amiss with large publishers.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Clearly something is amiss with large publishers.

Basically what happened with Squaresoft back when they got too big. They start to think they are too smart to fail, and made bad investment decisions that end up blowing up in their face. The organisation forgot how to make good products.

 

[DenchDeckard]

AAA is in the toilet and we will see a drastic reduction in costs in the near future. I think there will be a reset where studios adapt, but I hope there isnt some more serious issues that we are yet to witness.

 

[kyussman]

A lot of people have already said it but I'll say it again anyway,it's AAA that needs a shake up.....it seems unsustainable on it's current trajectory.

 

[Lord Panda]

Not really.

We just have to survive the woke mind virus phase, but that is just a writing thing, games have more to offer compared to movies (thank god).

The industry needs a good exorcism

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

I see a lot of folks praising 2024 for the amount of games that have been released in the first quarter, and there are certainly bangers that have and will drop over the next few months. Those games have been in development for years at this point.

The issue is that the traditional industry (AAA, and AA console titles) began shrinking at the end of 2022 in terms of investment dollars. Then publishers begin reducing risk and headcount in 2023, which has (and will) continue through 2024/2025.

So while we feasted in 2023 and 2024, the content famine (and consolidation) is coming for us over the next few years. More indie and small scale titles will get released and while that can be great for creativity it doesn’t necessarily translate into huge financial success for large publishers. They will turn to “new” platforms for their existing and back catalog titles to help stop the bleeding, but that is only going to hasten the speed of tentpole title degradation.

As a consumer I can tell you that my game spending has PLUMMETED over the last 5 months. At most I have three pre-ordered games I am waiting on right now and nothing on the horizon for the end of 2024. I am a whale in terms of my spending habits for gaming and I am currently BEACHED on the desolate shore that is traditional gaming currently.

I hope we are heading toward a utopia of platform ubiquity where all content is accessible on a multitude of hardware types and everyone can play, but that future looks real hazy to me right now.

Anyway…fingers crossed for Nintendo in 2025

 

[StueyDuck]

you don't have mass layoffs across the industry in a healthy industry. Even if Game X that just came out is your favorite.

the industry is going to collapse at this rate, they need to find a way to release stable, fairly priced games within 2-3 years of development or find a way to have staggered multiple projects within the studio. The industry can't be sustained on subscription game lists and battle passes.

Is the gaming industry going away forever, of course not. But just because you like final fantasy 7 rebirth doesn't mean things aren't fucked.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

The problem is not the industry or AAA games. We are going through a "competence crisis" in the West that is impacting the entire entertainment industry and many others. Videogames are the last ones to join the party. Useless leaders and hires not based on skill and meritocracy are the industry killers. Since this is a vicious circle, the only solution is to apply purifying fire. Get rid of the fat and videogames will be great again, like magic.

 

[StereoVsn]

Yeah for all the fearmongering we get from gaming bloggers, I do believe AI has the potential to significantly improve the pace at which games are made. I also don't belive it's gonna come at the cost of artistic vision, I'm sure there's more than enough menial stuff can be delegated to AI.

And you think Corpos will stop there? As soon as AI becomes genuinely useful in production at scale (almost there), first ones to get fired will be comma, marketing, hr, followed by artists and software devs.

It’s already happening with tech industry and that’s mostly in “anticipation “ of savings. It’s all about “value for shareholders”.

 

[DanEON]

The industry is healing!!

 

[digoutyoursoul]

The games as a service model isn’t sustainable. They require substantial player time and investment and there is only so many the consumer can invest in at a time . You keep putting them on the market and it’s inevitable there will be losses.

I also get the impression the current feelings placate Microsoft as to some people it will try and cover their own failings as being an industry wide problem rather than looking at themselves for their own faults. There’s no saving that platform with that mentality.

I’m sure some are hoping Rockstar and GTA 6 will give everything a significant boost and I’m sure it will but long term one software release isn’t going to solve everything.

Stop trying to fix things that aren’t broke would be a start.

 

[Hrk69]

It's going to be fine.

There are enough idiots pre-ordering games

 

[Damigos]

Its going to be fine. Excellent games are released all the time, records are broken all the time.
The only thing i would personally change is the gatcha-mobile-seasonpass-live service-micromacrodlc bullshit, which i understand is, unfortunately, a pillat of gaming's economy. Despite that, games like Elden Ring are released constantly and will keep on releasing.
So, everything is fine

 

[Guilty_AI]

So-so, the industry is too big and segmented. Even if some parts of it fall apart, others will be fine.

 

[mdkirby]

There's just a lot of realignment and restructuring going on. The business models pushed in recent years aren't working anymore, and it takes 6 years to make a game, so the impact of those sort of changes has big repercussions, ie layoffs/closures. What happens in the next phase still isn't entirely clear, could be more AA games, could be smaller AAA games, could be extensive use of Ai so games can release in half the time with half the staff, so cost 1/4 of what they do now, whilst maintaining or even increasing current scope/quality. We won't really know how the cards have fallen until the end of the decade.

 

[MikeM]

Transitional point. Over hiring has led to corrections. The realization that GAAS does not equal mountains of moneys and is either boom or bust (likely bust). Hardware is starting to invest heavily in AI a la PS5 Pro. More AA focus and less so on massive, risky AAA experiences.

Gaming isn’t going anywhere.

 

[Naked Lunch]

The industry layoffs are not a simple coincidence.

But beyond business - from a game player standpoint:
Gaming has always been in a constant form of evolution. There was a point you were always wondering what was coming next:
From 2d, to 3d, to online, to physics, to destruction. At that point, the medium just hit wall.

Now its all about microtransations, live service, hollywood actors, weekly timed limited events.
The truly great games - (very) few and far between.
Good design, good/new and fresh gameplay - lacking.
Very few modern games actually worth your time.

Take all that in combination with the business state of the industry - yeah - its in trouble.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

No, Gaming is not in trouble. If anything is in trouble is gaming journalism and its lack of accountability. Lots of sensationalism and sensationalist (and dare I even say irresponsible) reporting. Yes, I blame them for everything because they are not doing their one job.

As for layoffs, I don't know why this comes as a shocker, but this has always happened. But more importantly, what is happening now is just a course correction from the rapid expansion the industry saw a few years ago. And as for AAA games, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that model. AAA games have always been; the most expensive games to make and the games that make the most money. They still are, what the issue is now is that a good number of the AAA games being made now are just whack. A bad game is gonna sell poorly, regardless of whether it's AAA or not. It doesn't help that they are now asking people to pay $70 on top of that.

We can't be there saying AAA games are in trouble when we are in a gen that has seen AAA success stories like Hogwarts, Elden Ring, GOW:R, SM2, GT7, RE4R....etc. Good games sell. It's when these publishers make some soulless cash grabs that they have problems. Then when they don't sell the stupid sensationalist media starts peddling industry is in trouble.

They even do the same thing for the Xbox brand. In light of yet another success from another Playstation console and the success that is the Nintendo Switch, yet another Xbox console fails, and instead of them just being honest and saying, the industry is healthy, but people just don't like Xbox, they instead push nonsense like "could this be the last console generation..... bla bla bla". Classic I didn't lose the game just changed excuse. Like the future of the console industry has ever hinged on the performance of an Xbox console. If typing that out reads stupid.

The PS5 is selling better than the PS1, in the ball park of the PS2 (for now), better than the PS3, better than the PS4.... thats 4 generations of consoles, and is on track to make more money than any one of those generations, the Nintendo Switch is doing better than every Nintendo console barring the DS and has made more money for Nintendo than Nintendo knows what to do with. And yet.... the industry is in trouble?

 

[IDKFA]

Unless they get their costs down, it's fucked.

Really fucked. More fucked than a freshly fucked fox in a forest fire. Proper fucked.

 

[Boralf]

Maybe if you only play big studio games. Other than that no. So many good games around, just need search a little harder.

 

[Peroroncino]

Unless they get their costs down, it's fucked.

Really fucked. More fucked than a freshly fucked fox in a forest fire. Proper fucked.

Well, lay-offs are a part of doing just that, along with other solutions companies are exploring (like AI, more outsourcing etc.).

Happy to see it's not clear cut in here, going by twitter or some gaming sites, you'd think industry is on the brink lol.

 

[T4keD0wN]

I dont think the industry could be in a better state for me as a consumer, its the best its even been historically, if i were an investor or a worker in this industry id say the exact opposite.

Its way too volatile, high risk, high reward so the companies cannot risk making a product that does not appease the customers because their existence is on the line, just how it should be and i love it.

 

[ReBurn]

It's not in trouble. It's changing because it has to. Huge single player games are going to be the primary casualty.

 

[manzo]

It's growing pains in the heavily transforming "old" videogame industry. As we are following more the old giants who we grew up with, they are the ones having pain.

Look at the mobile service games, they have no issues and are flourishing as we speak. The pain is more to AAA console developers and they just need to get on with the times. I know my time is coming to an end somewhat soon, as I'm more an enjoyer of old single-player JRPGs and STG games, I've quietly been exiting the videogame industry. Preparing my old consoles and systems to play pretty much anything pre-2000 for my old years. And I'm completely happy.

Just the Japanese PC-industry (PC-88/PC-98 and X86k) is largely unexplored for me and will take years to prod through.