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[Yami]

A new article takes a look at what the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 mean for eSports, honing in on the console's controller, Twitch streaming, a touch on the PC gaming master race and Titanfall too, with words from our beloved MarkMan, OpTic Gaming's COD pro Michael "FlamesworDsQ" Chaves, and Halo pro Ian "Enable" Wyatt.

Nice read. Couple excerpts:

“The next-gen controllers are just like every other next-gen controller we pick up once a new console is out,” says Michael Chaves, the OpTic Gaming professional Call of Duty Player better known as FlamesworDsQ. “Our first thoughts are usually the same; ‘I hate these controllers! Why can’t we just stick to the ones we have been playing with for five years!’”

Aftermarket peripherals designers have spent years refining their controllers for pro gamers. Mad Catz, for instance, based its official MLG Pro Circuit controller for 360 and PS3 on the needs of Call of Duty PS3 players and hardcore Halo players on Xbox. But it’s too early to say what next-gen games will dictate the inevitable next-gen controller sequels, says Mad Catz’ community and sponsorship manager, Mark Julio, who works closely with pro gamers.

“We are in a transition period with the new consoles and have yet to see where the eSports leagues will take it."

One thing Mad Catz do anticipate however: eSports becoming even more popular. There’s one little blink-and-you’ll-miss-it button on the DualShock 4 controller for PlayStation 4 however which won’t just change eSports – it’ll take it mainstream. The subtle share button just above the D-pad lets you save up to 15 minutes of gameplay, so you can show off your killstreak, headshot or flawless victory. It’s a concept that’s been around for years, but it’s never been so convenient, or required so few cables. Microsoft provides for similar services on Xbox One and both allow gamers to share their gameplay live over gaming social network Twitch – as well as watch that of others.

“There are a lot of new features that both PS4 and Xbox One possess that help change the landscape of competitive gaming and how it’s viewed by the public,” says Julio. “One of these things is the new ability to share, stream and interact with others online, which is happening at an unprecedented rate compared to last-gen.”

Thoughts anyone?

 

[SuicidalSteve]

They should all be on a level playing field....don't like to play with the first party controllers? Tough. Get used to it.

Also for ps4's share function they must fix the video function because I dont get the previous 15 minutes of gameplay saved from the moment I started pushing the share button.

 

[KJRS_1993]

They should all be on a level playing field....don't like to play with the first party controllers? Tough. Get used to it.

I agree with this.
PC gaming puts me off a little for the same reason.

 

[Uiki]

Console shooters are not e-sport by definition.

Halo 2 came closer.. but that's it.

I don't really see the point.

 

[Kintaro]

They should all be on a level playing field....don't like to play with the first party controllers? Tough. Get used to it.

No. Just... no.

 

[KJRS_1993]

No. Just... no.

Why not, Captain Insightful?

 

[Codeblue]

They should all be on a level playing field....don't like to play with the first party controllers? Tough. Get used to it.

I don't think you'll find anyone playing fighters with a first party controller.

 

[Tagyhag]

Will be interesting to see what consoles can do for e-sports. As long as games like COD are in the forefront I just can't take it seriously. Especially their pro players.

 

[Doombacon]

Console shooters are not e-sport by definition.

Halo 2 came closer.. but that's it.

I don't really see the point.

They have sponsored teams competing in sponsored events for prize money and glory. So yeah, E-Sport.

 

[SuicidalSteve]

No. Just... no.

If it gives any competitors 'advantages' over their opponents if they use a different controller.

The only time a different controller can be used is if a competitor is disabled for example

 

[b&jy77VjiKn$#F]

I don't think you'll find anyone playing fighters with a first party controller.

There's this guy who plays SF4 with a keyboard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCU7MeiE6aY

 

[SuicidalSteve]

I don't think you'll find anyone playing fighters with a first party controller.

It would no doubt vary from different games of course. Mainly I was on about fps in general.

No idea what rules there are in this e-sports business

 

[andymcc]

Why not, Captain Insightful?

the FGC would go batshit if standard controllers were implemented.

 

[Forkball]

I don't think you'll find anyone playing fighters with a first party controller.

I'd love to see an all 360 controller SFIV tournament.

 

[Ikuu]

They should all be on a level playing field....don't like to play with the first party controllers? Tough. Get used to it.

Why? Very few sports have people use the same equipment.

 

[Doombacon]

They should all be on a level playing field....don't like to play with the first party controllers? Tough. Get used to it.

It is a level playing field because anyone serious in trying to compete in a real event is willing to pay for the best equipment. If you're able to afford travel expenses and entry fees you're going to be able to afford a $70-100 controller to compete with.

This is like saying that other esports should be limited to stock $10 Microsoft keyboards. Which is truly absurd.

 

[Mister Chippy]

I don't get why they don't all use Kb+m already. It's just straight up better for shooters. I understand why people might prefer the pad for casual play, but if this is esports then they should be doing what gives them the most control, and the difference between kb+m and a pad is huge.

Surprisingly, Dunn says Valve isn’t aiming to satisfy pro gamers with the [Steam controller]

Well duh. Kb+m is the best control system for a lot of different kinds of games, mainly FPS, RTS, and MOBAs. Valve knows this, so they're obviously not gonna try to cater their new product to people who don't want or need it.

 

[Harlock]

FPS are harder to get the same audience of Dota2, LoL, SC2, Hearthstone and fighting games. Because that I dont think the new controllers or next-gen consoles will have a big impact in any e-sport thing.

 

[jacobeid]

Why not, Captain Insightful?

FGC says hi. *waves*

 

[KJRS_1993]

FGC says hi. *waves*

I ain't an esports guy, I have no idea who they are, hence my ignorance!

 

[Uiki]

They have sponsored teams competing in sponsored events for prize money and glory. So yeah, E-Sport.

Tournaments, not esports.

Those games are build with the opposite concept of esport in mind.. So bitching about a controller is laughable.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I ain't an esports guy, I have no idea who they are, hence my ignorance!

People have controller preference in competitive video games. Many competitive fighting game players, for instance, decide to use arcade sticks instead of first party controllers because that is what they are most comfortable with. Restricting matches to only using first party controllers would be utter nonsense.

 

[CryptiK]

How many eSports games do you have/had on console? How many on PC? eSports tried to be a thing on console last gen and failed apart from Fighters which really is a stem off arcade.

Main issue here is AAA games only really get huge exposure on consoles and the devs/publishers don't care enough about the eSports scene on consoles so the features aren't their. PC games that made their way to consoles lost all their features essential and needed to make a successful game for competition. Battlefield being a big offender followed by COD and its removal of dedicated servers and demo recording.

The reason competitive FPS is dying is not the community, its the developers lack of support and general lack of communication. COD2 and 4 were huge at one point, MW2 took all that away for a more consolised approach to the game and its gotten worse with every release. That was one big AAA game that was pulling views and a community because of mod tools and the basic features needed. BF series turned to trash competitive wise after 2142 The BF series was pulling $20,000 tournaments in Australia thats huge money for the community even by today's standards. Bad Company hit consoles and BC2 hit PC all the essential features gone, Spectator Mode, Demo Recording and Mod tools gone why? Because the target audience(consoles) didnt need any of that.

Unless a AAA dev pull's their finger out of their ass and realises how much money there is to be had in a competitive environment then FPS is dead. On that note how ever their is a game being made by Splash Damage(who made some amazing competitive games in the past)called Extraction a game focused on free to play and eSports so hopefully we have our saviour around the corner.

 

[Uiki]

How many eSports games do you have/had on console? How many on PC? eSports tried to be a thing on console last gen and failed apart from Fighters which really is a stem off arcade.

Main issue here is AAA games only really get huge exposure on consoles and the devs/publishers don't care enough about the eSports scene on consoles so the features aren't their. PC games that made their way to consoles lost all their features essential and needed to make a successful game for competition. Battlefield being a big offender followed by COD and its removal of dedicated servers and demo recording.

The reason competitive FPS is dying is not the community, its the developers lack of support and general lack of communication. COD2 and 4 were huge at one point, MW2 took all that away for a more consolised approach to the game and its gotten worse with every release. That was one big AAA game that was pulling views and a community because of mod tools and the basic features needed. BF series turned to trash competitive wise after 2142 The BF series was pulling $20,000 tournaments in Australia thats huge money for the community even by today's standards. Bad Company hit consoles and BC2 hit PC all the essential features gone, Spectator Mode, Demo Recording and Mod tools gone why? Because the target audience(consoles) didnt need any of that.

Unless a AAA dev pull's their finger out of their ass and realises how much money their is to be had in a competitive environment then FPS is dead. On that note how ever their is a game being made by Splash Damage(who made some amazing competitive games in the past)called Extraction a game focused on free to play and eSports so hopefully we have our saviour around the corner.

Cs:go says hi. Went from 40k peak players to 150k in 5 months with crowfounding. It's getting weekly updates based on community feedback. 2 weeks ago the 2nd major sponsored by valve hit 250k viewers.

So no, not dead. They are just NOT on console.

Also.. I love splash damage but I don't see extraction as a big esport candidate. Are you in the alpha? I didn't play since december.

 

[ghst]

FPS are harder to get the same audience of Dota2, LoL, SC2, Hearthstone and fighting games. Because that I dont think the new controllers or next-gen consoles will have a big impact in any e-sport thing.

counterstrike can pull 100k+ on a good day nowadays.

we don't need the controller based paralympics to prop up competitive FPS anymore.

 

[CryptiK]

Cs:go says hi. Went from 40k peak players to 150k in 5 months with crowfounding. It's getting weekly updates based on community feedback. 2 weeks ago the 2nd major sponsored by valve hit 250k viewers.

So no, not dead. They are just NOT on console.

Also.. I love splash damage but I don't see extraction as a big esport candidate. Are you in the alpha? I didn't play since december.

Thats my point though. Thats a game with support. A single FPS that is successful in the scene doesn't mean its not dying. Not everyone is interested in CS:GO just like no everyone is interested in Dota 2. ARTS/MOBA's have a small variety they've had Dota 2, LoL and HoN. FPS has had CSGO.

If you had been paying attention in the forums you'd know they are focusing eSports.

My point still stands unless a big AAA title comes along with the features needed ON PC or Console forget Competitive FPS. It won't take long for CS:Go to die out due to the lack of variety CS has always had a knack of starting out strong and losing steam. COD4 and Battlefield were bigger than it at one point in the past.

 

[Mister Chippy]

counterstrike can pull 100k+ on a good day nowadays.

we don't need the controller based paralympics to prop up competitive FPS anymore.

True dat.

Now if only comp TF2 would manage to pull it's head out of it's ass maybe we could see that getting some views too...

 

[Opiate]

If it gives any competitors 'advantages' over their opponents if they use a different controller.

I would assume the same is true if everyone is forced to use the same controller, as well.

Regardless, the e-sport scene has spoken; PC Gaming is by a wide margin the most popular place for e-sports. The console-centric scene began expanding in the late 2000s but has contracted noticeably since then. Even competitive FPS have shifted back towards PC, as the massive growth of CS:GO testifies to.

 

[CryptiK]

True dat.

Now if only comp TF2 would manage to pull it's head out of it's ass maybe we could see that getting some views too...

All Valve needs to do is add competitive matchmaking. And support it as an FPS game and it would grow.

 

[Draft]

They should all be on a level playing field....don't like to play with the first party controllers? Tough. Get used to it.

Also for ps4's share function they must fix the video function because I dont get the previous 15 minutes of gameplay saved from the moment I started pushing the share button.

Bro, was your last competitive gaming experience in the SNES era when your boy dominated SF2 using turbo buttons? There's no advantage to having a third party controller. Competitive gaming is held up by two pillars: the FGC and PC Gamers, and both groups are free to use any input device they like. In fact, customized sticks and keyboards are hallmarks for both camps.

Get used to it? lol.

 

[Mister Chippy]

All Valve needs to do is add competitive matchmaking. And support it as an FPS game and it would grow.

TF2 needs more help than that. Like I said the whole comp scene has it's head stuck up it's ass. They've put a crazy numbers of rules into play specifically to protect the meta as it's been for years. Whenever a new weapon comes out that might change the meta, it gets instabanned.

 

[Falk]

Taking CoD as an example, as long as it keeps up with its yearly releases, business figures are going to look good, but honestly it's a self-destructive mechanism long-term as far as playerbase goes.

There barely is a single competitive sport in existence where the rules change every twelve months or so.

Sure, things like balance patches exist in RTS and ARTS/DotA-likes but that's on a completely different magnitude of change compared to completely revamping the core systems (perks/etc) and maps at the whim of pushing more retail copies.

There's a reason why competition thrives on familiarity. Top level play balances so finely on the thinnest lines that the smallest factors can be decisive. Yanking everyone around like there's no tomorrow after that fact does nothing for the longevity of a scene.

I think that's the underlying factor. It just so happens that console titles pretty much are cash cows by design that puts nails in its own coffin, from everything like business models all the way to limiting infrastructure (demo playback, servers, etc as all have been mentioned already)

 

[Uiki]

Thats my point though. Thats a game with support. A single FPS that is successful in the scene doesn't mean its not dying. Not everyone is interested in CS:GO just like no everyone is interested in Dota 2. ARTS/MOBA's have a small variety they've had Dota 2, LoL and HoN. FPS has had CSGO.

If you had been paying attention in the forums you'd know they are focusing eSports.

My point still stands unless a big AAA title comes along with the features needed ON PC or Console forget Competitive FPS. It won't take long for CS:Go to die out due to the lack of variety CS has always had a knack of starting out strong and losing steam. COD4 and Battlefield were bigger than it at one point in the past.

Well, cs has started BADLY then gaining users as we go. But that's not the point here.

I don't really think that AAA games can be build around an e-sport audience (or incorporate some sort of e-sport features). They need to level out the skill gap to attract cod/bf crowrds. Halo was sort in the middle of this but they fucking killed it with reach and halo 4 >_> Doesn't bo2 had some sort of e-sport playlist?

Also, they need to build a game and keep improving on it, not making a sequel every year.

E-sport fps are dying for lack of interest by today's players, in my opinion.

10 years ago we had a different player base.

All Valve needs to do is add competitive matchmaking. And support it as an FPS game and it would grow.

I would PAY for a competitive mm in TF2 :/

 

[Draft]

TF2 needs more help than that. Like I said the whole comp scene has it's head stuck up it's ass. They've put a crazy numbers of rules into play specifically to protect the meta as it's been for years. Whenever a new weapon comes out that might change the meta, it gets instabanned.

Smash syndrome. I'm not big into Smash or TF2 so what do I know; but the desire to strip away all the fun stuff so that it's more fair or competitive seems counterintuitive. If you don't want a game full of crazy shit, don't play TF2.

 

[morpix]

I'm happy it became so convenient, however... I'm waiting for Qanba or someone else to make a fight stick that works on PS4 and Xbox One. It'll take awhile, but the PS4 is seriously lacking a fightstick. The MadCatz KI fightstick for Xbone is actually pretty decent.

 

[CryptiK]

Well, cs has started BADLY then gaining users as we go. But that's not the point here.

I don't really think that AAA games can be build around an e-sport audience (or incorporate some sort of e-sport features). They need to level out the skill gap to attract cod/bf crowrds. Halo was sort in the middle of this but they fucking killed it with reach and halo 4 >_> Doesn't bo2 had some sort of e-sport playlist?

Also, they need to build a game and keep improving on it, not making a sequel every year.

E-sport fps are dying for lack of interest by today's players, in my opinion.

10 years ago we had a different player base.



I would PAY for a competitive mm in TF2 :/

That is completely false. Its the lack of support. When the features were pulled from Battlefield and COD community we all still bought it in hopes of something to come out of it. I played high level COD and BF in Australia sponsored by the likes of NVIDIA MSi CM Storm etc and I can assure you the community is there and they are still waiting. E-sports playlists mean fuck all. Demo recording and spectator are needed for various things including anti cheat. If a Dev were to balance their game have demo and spectator mode you would see growth again but they refuse to do it now they just release unfinished retread garbage.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Taking CoD as an example, as long as it keeps up with its yearly releases, business figures are going to look good, but honestly it's a self-destructive mechanism long-term as far as playerbase goes.

That's what I was thinking. The successful e-Sports games seem to be games that have a developers full attention for years after their release, and those developers are specifically tweaking and changing things to make the game better for competitive play. CoD is a yearly franchise, so by the time that they may be getting balancing right, it's time for the next one and Activision will switch all their support and attention over to that new game.

So, it's hard to see a scenario where a console shooter could really take off. At least in the case of a AAA release. It seems like most devs/publishers are way too worried about alienating more casual player if they have even a moderate learning curve or if they aren't constantly rewarding the player for nearly everything they do. So, everything is geared toward making it as easy to play as possible.

 

[Miletius]

I don't really see controllers as an issue in E-sports. The biggest names in the game either use KBM (Dota, LOL, Starcraft) or a variety of Arcade sticks (fighting games). Both of those are pretty liberal in the use of different equipment, there are obvious no-nos, but in general they allow people to use what they are comfortable with.

It's not really a question of console vs PC in this case, as many fighting games are played on consoles. It's just a question of if e-sports needs to standardize controllers, and based on the games that mostly comprise e-sports, I think the answer is a clear no.

 

[theprodigy]

Smash syndrome. I'm not big into Smash or TF2 so what do I know; but the desire to strip away all the fun stuff so that it's more fair or competitive seems counterintuitive. If you don't want a game full of crazy shit, don't play TF2.

HAHAHA
oh wow

 

[Falk]

That's what I was thinking. The successful e-Sports games seem to be games that have a developers full attention for years after their release, and those developers are specifically tweaking and changing things to make the game better for competitive play. CoD is a yearly franchise, so by the time that they may be getting balancing right, it's time for the next one and Activision will switch all their support and attention over to that new game.

So, it's hard to see a scenario where a console shooter could really take off. At least in the case of a AAA release. It seems like most devs/publishers are way too worried about alienating more casual player if they have even a moderate learning curve or if they aren't constantly rewarding the player for nearly everything they do. So, everything is geared toward making it as easy to play as possible.

As a core PC gamer who's been with FPS from Doom to Quake to the original TF, (to Unreal Tournament) to CS, to VCoD, to CoD4, it's always been my pipe dream that CoD releases of the same series (e.g. MW or BO, etc) would all have added to the same base game (hey, it's the same engine after all!) the same way expansion packs in MMORPGs worked. That way the multiplayer base would have been consolidated, there might have been some semblance of a lasting competitive scene.

Of course, that's not going to work when the corporate expectation is to push brick and mortar sales.

And the whole factor of that entire framework being impossible on consoles where games come on discs and hence are 'required' to be 'separate'.

edit: CoD4 Promod had a really good run, for better or worse. Some things I wish the community had handled differently in hindsight, but honestly speaking it's the closest the franchise ever came to a self-perpetuating competitive scene, and it literally had zero official publisher/developer acknowledgement, yet significant eSports team/sponsor acknowledgement. It also birthed some of the best competitive FPS movies/montages to date, just due to the toolset available to the so-creatively-inclined.

:salut:

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Demo recording and spectator are needed for various things including anti cheat. If a Dev were to balance their game have demo and spectator mode you would see growth again but they refuse to do it now they just release unfinished retread garbage."

Yep, yep. MP FPS devs are completely refusing to add basic comp features like demo recording and spectating. It's amazing how averse they are to putting them in. I mean, I'm sure some might claim ignorance, but these are features that existed in previous games in some of these series (Battlefield, COD, fucking Unreal Tournament 3 shipped with broken ass Demo Recording) and yet they're completely stripped out. It's mindboggling.

 

[Opiate]

I want to emphasize again that forcing everyone to use the exact same controller is not actually better for competitive balance.

Imagine if, as a very similar example, the MLB forced everyone to use the exact same glove and the exact same bat. Well, what about people with smaller hands? What about huge guys who may need a different bat than someone who is shorter?

The same applies to games. If you insist everyone use (for example) the Xbox 360 controller, then guys who are extremely skilled but who happen to have smaller hands might perform worse. There's a simple fix for this: allow them to use third party controllers, some of which may have a smaller form factor and thus allow someone with slightly smaller hands to find the perfect form factor for them.

That strikes me as a better control for skill than insisting everyone play with the exact same controller. Insisting everyone play with the exact same controller actually strikes me as the opposite; it gives a benefit to those whose hands and body happen to perfectly mold to the default, standardized controller.

 

[Draft]

HAHAHA
oh wow

Final Destination.

 

[Terbinator]

If it gives any competitors 'advantages' over their opponents if they use a different controller.

The only time a different controller can be used is if a competitor is disabled for example

Lol. I guess you're not familiar with football (or any sport besides naked wrestling [but then does donger size count?]) then.

 

[Deadbeat]

counterstrike can pull 100k+ on a good day nowadays.

we don't need the controller based paralympics to prop up competitive FPS anymore.

But I was pub stomping in Titanfall with a controller. Mouse and keyboard isnt as good at shooters as a good controller.

 

[Armaros]

"Demo recording and spectator are needed for various things including anti cheat. If a Dev were to balance their game have demo and spectator mode you would see growth again but they refuse to do it now they just release unfinished retread garbage."

Yep, yep. MP FPS devs are completely refusing to add basic comp features like demo recording and spectating. It's amazing how averse they are to putting them in. I mean, I'm sure some might claim ignorance, but these are features that existed in previous games in some of these series (Battlefield, COD, fucking Unreal Tournament 3 shipped with broken ass Demo Recording) and yet they're completely stripped out. It's mindboggling.

They dont want longevity in a particular game, they want the majority of their buyers to buy the game on launch, devour its content and then wait for the next game in the series.

One of Activisions greatest fear with CoD,I imagine would be the CS effect, where for the longest time CS 1.6 had the most player CS game on steam, its only until relatively recently that more people have flocked to CS:GO but CS 1.6 is still going strong.

 

[cheezcake]

It won't take long for CS:Go to die out due to the lack of variety CS has always had a knack of starting out strong and losing steam. COD4 and Battlefield were bigger than it at one point in the past.

This doesn't make any sense from a competitive standpoint. The casual scene may die out from lack of variety, as it did in Battlefield and COD4, but the competitive scene is reliant on being mostly consistent. You want the talent of the players themselves to be the focal point of any competitive scene, the game should be dictated mostly by the players themselves, not by a set of changing maps and rules for the sake of 'variety'.

People have been playing the modern form of chess for near 200 years and you don't see them complaining about its lack of 'variety'. And the same can be said of pretty much any major competitive sport today.

 

[OldAsUrSock]

They should all be on a level playing field....don't like to play with the first party controllers? Tough. Get used to it.

Also for ps4's share function they must fix the video function because I dont get the previous 15 minutes of gameplay saved from the moment I started pushing the share button.

I agree with this.
PC gaming puts me off a little for the same reason.

This is ridiculous. Not everyone in F1 has the same car, not every track runner has the same shoes, not every Dragster has the same car, not every bowler has the same ball, and not every cyclist has the same bike.

All peripherals should be supported in esports. Want to use a mouse in COD? Sure. Want to use a fighting stick in Counter Strike? Sure. Want to use a controller for Starcraft? Go right ahead.

 

[Orayn]

I know that the scene is real, but hearing controller discussion for esports sounds like people talking about the best Nerf swords for professional fencing.

But I was pub stomping in Titanfall with a controller. Mouse and keyboard isnt as good at shooters as a good controller.

What

 

[Opiate]

This is ridiculous. Not everyone in F1 has the same car, not every track runner has the same shoes, not every Dragster has the same car, not every bowler has the same ball, and not every cyclist has the same bike.

All peripherals should be supported in esports. Want to use a mouse in COD? Sure. Want to use a fighting stick in Counter Strike? Sure. Want to use a controller for Starcraft? Go right ahead.

Not every baseball player uses the same glove, or the same bat. Not every basketball player wears the same shoes.

The reason we don't insist on standardizing stuff like that is it's actually bad for competitive balance.