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[yurinka]

The first two points apply to many games (also you're missing context for the second) and the results aren't the same.

As for your last point,


So I doubt it was very successful if they took it down from the website, and then the store that quickly from launch of AC mobile.

Outside a sequel I don't see another racing sim being able to reach this number unless the PC+console Forza Motor Sport hits it out of the park that even Forza 3 or 4 could do around the peak of the 360. This are incredible results.

The revenue reported seems to be a little low for the series, but I found a tweet that possibly explains the revenue number despite the sales,


Either way revenue aside, a lot more people played Assetto Corsa than many previously thought. Many though it was done and would just sell to a profitable crowd of enthusiasts, but it turns out it was selling quietly to the mainstream the whole time. Good job to Digital Bros and congratulations on the success.

In that case, these 28M units must have been from giving away the game for free or almost for free, that would explain the big unbalance between units and revenue. If they would count only since the acquisition (rare since companies normally count since launch), I assume they would have counted from acquisition for both metrics.

 

[64bitmodels]

In that case, these 28M units must have been from giving away the game for free or almost for free.

yep, it goes on deep sales almost all the time

 

[DeepEnigma]

You can literally buy it for the price of a cheap phone app every other month.

 

[Kvally]

How’s it stack up to GT7?

Different racers. AC is a sim racer, GT7 is more arcadey.

 

[Raven117]

How’s it stack up to GT7?

An actual racing sim that feels awesome to play without some of the gating b.s. that GT can have. (I know some people like a campaign...but for me...just give me the car...the info sheets...and let me get to racing).

 

[lukilladog]

I don't think that AC Competizione is as popular as the original AC, everyhing seems worse despite the engine upgrade, lighting and sound seems pretty rough.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

In that case, these 28M units must have been from giving away the game for free or almost for free, that would explain the big unbalance between units and revenue. If they would count only since the acquisition (rare since companies normally count since launch), I assume they would have counted from acquisition for both metrics.

Your bottom quote literally has the tweet explaining the unbalance.

 

[Turk1993]

Best racing sim ever with one of the best modding community out there.

 

[Senua]

Seems low sales

no

 

[hlm666]

If your into car culture there's no better game. Grab the content manager, install the open world tracks and whatever cars your into and have a blast.




do it for your kids.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Sure, it sounds and looks great. I do remember the exceptional sound design.

But that's nuances for hardcore fans.

Everything else, like the extremely bad campaign, is all just standard sim racing that's been copy-pasted for decades since Gran Turismo on Playstation 1.

And when you compare it to the sales of other sim racers, you have to scratch your head at 28 million, cause no racers sell that kinda numbers outside of Mario Kart, not even close.

Sims existed before GT you know.

 

[Bragr]

Sims existed before GT you know.

Yes, but GT was the big console sim racer. It was the best-selling Playstation game on 3 Playstation consoles in a row. It has had a huge influence on sim racers. Asseto Corsa is clearly coming from that school.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Assetto Corsa is my most played game in the last 10 years and the reason I bought a VR headset.
The 2024 sequel is the only game I genuinely look forward to.

Oh. I have a Quest 2, Logitech G923 and a PC more powerful than my XSX and PS5.

What is the most recent entry in this series and is it vr compatible?

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Yes, but GT was the big console sim racer. It was the best-selling Playstation game on 3 Playstation consoles in a row.

I am assuming you are referring to first party, which in that case since Sony barely had much of an internal first-party until late in the PS3 this isn't very impressive.

But PC has always had sims that were different than what GT was. GT was just the first to take off on consoles, than Forza, and nothing else except ports of PC sims as all the other console sim attempts failed.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Yes, but GT was the big console sim racer. It was the best-selling Playstation game on 3 Playstation consoles in a row. It has had a huge influence on sim racers. Asseto Corsa is clearly coming from that school.

GT didn't even have cockpit camera before GT5. GT is far from being a sim.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

GT didn't even have cockpit camera before GT5.

I just realized that this is actually true and GT never had a FP view until 2010. Looking around the insider belief is that it was done as a response to Forza 3 that released one year earlier.

That's actually pretty late for both franchises, given the games with that view years before.

 

[BusierDonkey]

With mods Assetto can be whatever you want it to be with near limitless tracks, roads, highways, cars, etc. If you love racing you have Assetto Corsa in your library.

 

[Bragr]

GT didn't even have cockpit camera before GT5. GT is far from being a sim.

Then what is it, cause its sure not an arcade racer.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Then what is it, cause its sure not an arcade racer.

The word "Simcade" is used to classify GT (post GT4) and Forza. Before GT5 what GT was trying to simulate? RC Cars?

 

[In Cold Blood]

After playing Forza and then trying AC, I just couldn't play it. The controls just sucked. If you have GT on PS and Forza on Xbox, you really don't need any other racing sim.

 

[Bragr]

I am assuming you are referring to first party, which in that case since Sony barely had much of an internal first-party until late in the PS3 this isn't very impressive.

But PC has always had sims that were different than what GT was. GT was just the first to take off on consoles, than Forza, and nothing else except ports of PC sims as all the other console sim attempts failed.

Yes, its still impressive to lead on 3 consoles. GT was the Playstation showcase game for a long time.

I know of some F1 and Derby games that attempted sim racing on pc, but what games are you specifically talking about before GT that did the whole track/upgrade structure that GT did?

 

[Bragr]

The word "Simcade" is used to classify GT (post GT4) and Forza. Before GT5 what GT was trying to simulate? RC Cars?

Because it didnt have a cockpit camera? You can still simulate racing with a behind camera.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Because it didnt have a cockpit camera? You can still simulate racing with a behind camera.

Of RC cars, yes. Or we have some versions of real cars where the driver sits behind the car? Or in front of the bump?

And the simcade is because of the simplistics and unrealistics physics.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Yes, its still impressive to lead on 3 consoles. GT was the Playstation showcase game for a long time.

it lead for Sony's third party games on 3 consoles, when it was one of their only major and well marketed budgeted first party releases, along with some bundles. It's not really surprising.

What's impressive is how GT was the best selling of ALL PS 1 games with GT1 on the original PS, but it wasn't the leader after that one time.

As for PC well, you seem to have not even bothered with basic knowledge. Even console sim attempts had cockpits before GT5 (And Forza 3 the year before it). Heck a PS2 launch year game had it.

 

[Bragr]

Of RC cars, yes. Or we have some versions of real cars where the driver sits behind the car? Or in front of the bump?

And the simcade is because of the simplistics and unrealistics physics.

They simulated the control of the car, just not sitting in it.

What are the games with better physics in the 90s?

 

[rodrigolfp]

They simulated the control of the car, just not sitting in it.

Of a RC car, yes. How can the driver feel the car, physics, suspension, tyres, etc, being outside the car?

 

[SomeGit]

They simulated the control of the car, just not sitting in it.

What are the games with better physics in the 90s?

I remember GP 3 and NASCAR Racing 3 being much more realistic than the PS1 GTs at the time, though it was a long time ago.
But the first real sim I remember playing were LFS and the ISI's games from the 00s, until then nothing ever screamed "real" racing sim to me.

 

[blue velvet]

GT didn't even have cockpit camera before GT5. GT is far from being a sim.

ol

I just realized that this is actually true and GT never had a FP view until 2010. Looking around the insider belief is that it was done as a response to Forza 3 that released one year earlier.

That's actually pretty late for both franchises, given the games with that view years before.

Tf? That's not true at all lmao. GT5 Prologue had cockpit view on all cars and it came out around 2007 2 years before forza 3.

>Looking around the insider belief is that it was done as a response to Forza 3
where did you get this info? it's the other way around.

 

[hlm666]

They simulated the control of the car, just not sitting in it.

What are the games with better physics in the 90s?

microprose grand prix racing, papyrus indy car racing 1 and 2, nascar racing 1 and 2, Grand prix legends.

 

[Lasha]

They simulated the control of the car, just not sitting in it.

What are the games with better physics in the 90s?

You can read a decent summary of sim racing history on Wikipedia. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sim_racing)

GT and Forza are simcade. Both games capture the feeling of driving in real conditions without imposing most of the nuance of real racing on players. Stuff like realistic tire wear, pit strategy, qualifying, flags, and actual damage are abstracted.

 

[Bragr]

microprose grand prix racing, papyrus indy car racing 1 and 2, nascar racing 1 and 2, Grand prix legends.

You can read a decent summary of sim racing history on Wikipedia. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sim_racing)

GT and Forza are simcade. Both games capture the feeling of driving in real conditions without imposing most of the nuance of real racing on players. Stuff like realistic tire wear, pit strategy, qualifying, flags, and actual damage are abstracted.

Of a RC car, yes. How can the driver feel the car, physics, suspension, tyres, etc, being outside the car?

it lead for Sony's third party games on 3 consoles, when it was one of their only major and well marketed budgeted first party releases, along with some bundles. It's not really surprising.

What's impressive is how GT was the best selling of ALL PS 1 games with GT1 on the original PS, but it wasn't the leader after that one time.

As for PC well, you seem to have not even bothered with basic knowledge. Even console sim attempts had cockpits before GT5 (And Forza 3 the year before it). Heck a PS2 launch year game had it.

I'm not so sure the cockpit is the end-all, yes it's more immersive, but you can still feel traction, suspension, and physics outside of the car.

I played a bunch of indy car racing back in the day actually, I completely forgot about that game until I looked it up just now, but I can't say the PC racers of that age had some massive edge over GT when it comes to sim apart from the cockpit view.

Simcade versus sim is a lot more nuanced than racing fans want to believe. I know PC racers of today are more realistic than what you find on the console, but for most people, a sim racer follows a realistic approach, something which GT absolutely does even if it's not as deep as something like rFactor.

To be honest, most people wouldn't even notice the difference between something like iRacing and Gran Turismo 5.

 

[Cheezewizz]

I mean on consoles you didn't really have a major sim contender for awhile, Forza was stalling, GTS was having a rough launch and also not on PC, and Project Cars was kneecapping itself.

I would assume the launch year timing, along with the timing of it's content and further promotion during slow times probably helped it a lot, especially given they listen to feedback and engaged with the players the whole time. Since then we have not seen any real sims to take anyone the last few years outside the recently released GT7 which has it's own controversy for a few months after launch.

Good take.

A few months after release the general consensus seemed to be that Forza and GT were superior to everything else on console, and that Project Cars was firmly in second place behind them. AC was almost an afterthought at that time. They kind of just hung around longer than all the others really. Slowly building up their franchise over time.

 

[Lasha]

I'm not so sure the cockpit is the end-all, yes it's more immersive, but you can still feel traction, suspension, and physics outside of the car.

I played a bunch of indy car racing back in the day actually, I completely forgot about that game until I looked it up just now, but I can't say the PC racers of that age had some massive edge over GT when it comes to sim apart from the cockpit view.

Simcade versus sim is a lot more nuanced than racing fans want to believe. I know PC racers of today are more realistic than what you find on the console, but for most people, a sim racer follows a realistic approach, something which GT absolutely does even if it's not as deep as something like rFactor.

To be honest, most people wouldn't even notice the difference between something like iRacing and Gran Turismo 5.

The lower skill and safety ratings of iRacing are filled with those making the transition from console racers to an actual sim. Most people coming over struggle with both the perspective and being forced to do everything manually with a wheel. The differences are staggering and I question why you would make that statement if you have ever raced in iRacing. Third person racing is an assist since a cockpit view hinders visibility. Its an arcade element along with many of the assists, simplified physics, and other accommodations made for console racers. Simcade is purely descriptive. It carries no judgement on a game. Simcade and sim target different audiences.

 

[Bragr]

The lower skill and safety ratings of iRacing are filled with those making the transition from console racers to an actual sim. Most people coming over struggle with both the perspective and being forced to do everything manually with a wheel. The differences are staggering and I question why you would make that statement if you have ever raced in iRacing. Third person racing is an assist since a cockpit view hinders visibility. Its an arcade element along with many of the assists, simplified physics, and other accommodations made for console racers. Simcade is purely descriptive. It carries no judgement on a game. Simcade and sim target different audiences.

iRacing was a bad example because of all the awkwardness, but my point was that the differences between something like sim and simcade are mostly in the eye of the beholder rather than a big barrier. Racing games have been the most generic genre for decades now, and you can transition between them.

 

[Lasha]

iRacing was a bad example because of all the awkwardness, but my point was that the differences between something like sim and simcade are mostly in the eye of the beholder rather than a big barrier. Racing games have been the most generic genre for decades now, and you can transition between them.

The difference between counterstrike and call of duty is mostly in the eye of the beholder if the beholder isn't familiar with shooters. Sub-genres are pretty well established by communities. Do you race much?

I agree that racing fundamentals are pretty much universal. I picked up GT7 with minimal effort since I am an experienced sim racer. An experienced GT7 player would adjust more quickly to iRacing than somebody who only ever played NFS because GT7 does a good job of capturing the essence of racing. Thats why simcade. Not quite a sim but good enough to be a bridge between the two.

 

[sleipnir]

I'm really looking forward to AC2 but hope they do a better job with the console version, after the shit show that has been ACC. I must admit I've not played with the very latest update, but it's been a frustrating bug fest since release, which is a real shame as it's such a beautiful, pure, simulation. I still play and love the original AC on PC and console and despite its age think it feels amazing, even with my very basic sim rig of G920 wheel and pedals.

Anyone else here enjoy Aris.Drives YT channel? I've learned a lot about the finer workings of ACC and improved my own driving watching this Kunos devs channel.

 

[Bragr]

The difference between counterstrike and call of duty is mostly in the eye of the beholder if the beholder isn't familiar with shooters. Sub-genres are pretty well established by communities. Do you race much?

I agree that racing fundamentals are pretty much universal. I picked up GT7 with minimal effort since I am an experienced sim racer. An experienced GT7 player would adjust more quickly to iRacing than somebody who only ever played NFS because GT7 does a good job of capturing the essence of racing. Thats why simcade. Not quite a sim but good enough to be a bridge between the two.

I love racing games but I have been disappointed with them for a long time. I don't think it's the same as Counter-Strike versus Call of Duty.

I played a lot of console racers, like Asseto Corsa, Shift, or the Gran Turismo sort of racers. And I like Rally and the Formula One games.

But I have always felt that racing games stagnated a while ago, and the changes are so small that you barely get a different experience than the previous iteration. There was a glory time during the 2000 to 2010-ish, when racing games went in all sorts of directions, from stuff like Motorstorm, Burnout, and Pure, to sim racers to rally.

But after that, I find racing games to be more stagnated than any other genre, including sports games like Madden.

Most of the push for progression I have seen comes in the form of the F1 games, where they try to put together proper campaigns and management.

 

[GC_DALBEN]

It is awesome, i play every week a little of ASSETO (mostly mods like Shutoku) and ASSETO COMP with a friend, great fun.

 

[Patrick S.]

I love racing games but I have been disappointed with them for a long time. I don't think it's the same as Counter-Strike versus Call of Duty.

I played a lot of console racers, like Asseto Corsa, Shift, or the Gran Turismo sort of racers. And I like Rally and the Formula One games.

But I have always felt that racing games stagnated a while ago, and the changes are so small that you barely get a different experience than the previous iteration. There was a glory time during the 2000 to 2010-ish, when racing games went in all sorts of directions, from stuff like Motorstorm, Burnout, and Pure, to sim racers to rally.

But after that, I find racing games to be more stagnated than any other genre, including sports games like Madden.

Most of the push for progression I have seen comes in the form of the F1 games, where they try to put together proper campaigns and management.

I honestly don't really know if there's a lot more innovation to be had in racing games. And I think, the more you put "gimmicks" into your game, the more you're pushing the game into a niche, and if that gimmick fails to really captivate your customers' interests, it will alienate the other potential buyers who just wanted a good, no-nonsense racer.

 

[Lasha]

I love racing games but I have been disappointed with them for a long time. I don't think it's the same as Counter-Strike versus Call of Duty.

I played a lot of console racers, like Asseto Corsa, Shift, or the Gran Turismo sort of racers. And I like Rally and the Formula One games.

But I have always felt that racing games stagnated a while ago, and the changes are so small that you barely get a different experience than the previous iteration. There was a glory time during the 2000 to 2010-ish, when racing games went in all sorts of directions, from stuff like Motorstorm, Burnout, and Pure, to sim racers to rally.

But after that, I find racing games to be more stagnated than any other genre, including sports games like Madden.

Most of the push for progression I have seen comes in the form of the F1 games, where they try to put together proper campaigns and management.

I think your impression of stagnation is just a reality of the genre. There are only so many ways to take a car around a track. The community sticks to a few titles which are well supported by either devs or mods. Theres a good rally series (dirt), good sims (AC/iRacing), good arcade (Horizon), good F1 (F1...lol). Casuals bounce after finishing any campaign because they don't want to deal with the difficulty of online and hardcore people have little interest in offline races with little to no challenge. All of the big titles have a lot of room for progression but not much in the form of modern "progression".

 

[diffusionx]

What Gran Turismo brought to the racing game genre was a progression system and the down-to-earth nature of the cars. For a lot of people, they could race the actual cars they had at home. It was totally new. Also, a lot of games had like 20 cars at best, this one had 166 which was just a whole new paradigm. Although obviously something like GP Legends or Grand Prix on PC was not going to copy it because it was trying to do something totally different. The thing that is disappointing is that nobody else has really figured out how to improve upon it, even GT7 while amazing in a lot of ways is the same basic game as the first one.

Sims existed before GT you know.

They did but I feel the genre really blew up in the mid-to-late 1990s - same timeframe - because of 3D acceleration, better CPUs, etc. This is true of flight sims too, compare the flight sims before and after 3D cards and it's just a massive difference. Same thing with console, really, a SNES or Genesis couldn't make a proper racing sim or even "simcade" game.

 

[Kvally]

To be honest, most people wouldn't even notice the difference between something like iRacing and Gran Turismo 5.

 

[TheMan]

I don't think that AC Competizione is as popular as the original AC, everyhing seems worse despite the engine upgrade, lighting and sound seems pretty rough.

I would agree that ACC is less popular, but I think it has more to do with having a much narrower focus on GT racing only. Also, I don’t think it’s nearly as mod friendly as AC, which in the end I think is the secret sauce that gives the first game its longevity.

 

[nightmare-slain]

I need a good car game to play until Forza comes out. I don't really like Forza Horizon games as they are too silly.

holy shit the game is only £3 right now or £6 for the "ultimate" version! going to give it a try.

 

[Bragr]

I honestly don't really know if there's a lot more innovation to be had in racing games. And I think, the more you put "gimmicks" into your game, the more you're pushing the game into a niche, and if that gimmick fails to really captivate your customers' interests, it will alienate the other potential buyers who just wanted a good, no-nonsense racer.

What I mean by progression or innovation, is new ways in which the game motivates you. I always expected racing games to take a turn towards more in-depth story modes after Gran Turismo 3. You know, something like a campaign mode where you own a house, and as you earn money, you can build out a garage, and have a backyard where you can wash and work on your cars, start your own motor company, design your own cars, design a proper automobile store, make an automobile empire, whatever.

Instead, it sort of went backward. Car games stopped building campaigns. We did get that Grid game with a more detailed story, but too many car games are just menu bait. Most of these PC sims feel like they are made by people who have no understanding of what makes a game.

 

[SomeGit]

What I mean by progression or innovation, is new ways in which the game motivates you. I always expected racing games to take a turn towards more in-depth story modes after Gran Turismo 3. You know, something like a campaign mode where you own a house, and as you earn money, you can build out a garage, and have a backyard where you can wash and work on your cars, start your own motor company, design your own cars, design a proper automobile store, make an automobile empire, whatever.

Instead, it sort of went backward. Car games stopped building campaigns. We did get that Grid game with a more detailed story, but too many car games are just menu bait. Most of these PC sims feel like they are made by people who have no understanding of what makes a game.

Because, with all due respect you aren’t a sim racer, to someone buying a proper sim racing game campaigns and progressions are almost meaningless. I doubt a majority even touched ACs single player campaign, it’s not what sim racing is about.

In a sim racing the motivation is the racing itself, when I boot up AC I want to go racing not grind for some meaningless stuff or listen to some third rate story that’s tangentially about racing.

 

[hlm666]

Most of these PC sims feel like they are made by people who have no understanding of what makes a game.

I think you are thinking the average simcade player has the same motivations as a sim racer and I don't think they do. One is a game with the carrot on a stick shit and the other is ment to be a simulation.

The progression in a sim is you, you get better, faster, know how to set your car up better for different tracks, know what to compromise in setup depending on track, know how and when to save tyres/fuel etc. I think that's the difference and why sims hardly ever have any elaborate progression and/or campaign systems. I guess a crude example would be a simcade player and a sim racer walk into a bar, the simcade player says on the weekend I had my best race at bathurst and came second and got enough credits to buy a ferrari f40. The sim player says oh I tweaked my gear ratios and suspension in my mustang for bathurst so I'm faster over the mountain by a tenth now but first was still a bit faster down the chase so I need to work on that. Then they both look at each other like the other one wasted their weekend.

edit: S SomeGit gets it.

 

[rodrigolfp]

ol


Tf? That's not true at all lmao. GT5 Prologue had cockpit view on all cars and it came out around 2007 2 years before forza 3.

>Looking around the insider belief is that it was done as a response to Forza 3
where did you get this info? it's the other way around.

Why did you quote me?

 

[Bragr]

Because, with all due respect you aren’t a sim racer, to someone buying a proper sim racing game campaigns and progressions are almost meaningless. I doubt a majority even touched ACs single player campaign, it’s not what sim racing is about.

In a sim racing the motivation is the racing itself, when I boot up AC I want to go racing not grind for some meaningless stuff or listen to some third rate story that’s tangentially about racing.

I think you are thinking the average simcade player has the same motivations as a sim racer and I don't think they do. One is a game with the carrot on a stick shit and the other is ment to be a simulation.

The progression in a sim is you, you get better, faster, know how to set your car up better for different tracks, know what to compromise in setup depending on track, know how and when to save tyres/fuel etc. I think that's the difference and why sims hardly ever have any elaborate progression and/or campaign systems. I guess a crude example would be a simcade player and a sim racer walk into a bar, the simcade player says on the weekend I had my best race at bathurst and came second and got enough credits to buy a ferrari f40. The sim player says oh I tweaked my gear ratios and suspension in my mustang for bathurst so I'm faster over the mountain by a tenth now but first was still a bit faster down the chase so I need to work on that. Then they both look at each other like the other one wasted their weekend.

edit: S SomeGit gets it.

I am not talking about a sim racer's perspective, I can only talk from my perspective. Thing is, my perspective is a lot more common than sim racer one. Hardcore sim racers are a small percentage of the audience who buy car games.

Casual racers are also driven by getting better, sim racers are just more so. Sim racers are like speed runners, trying to get the inches, but that is not for everybody.

If a car game had a good campaign, sim racers would play it too. It's just the campaigns are so bad that it's not worth it.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I'm not so sure the cockpit is the end-all, yes it's more immersive, but you can still feel traction, suspension, and physics outside of the car.

It's the first thing on a simulator. Simulators exist for you to feel being the pilot so the view from inside the car/plane/etc is basic stuff.