Whitman's Ghost
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In other news, 1/4 of China's top cabinet is missing.
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Britain pulls out spies as Russia, China crack Snowden files: report
- Thread starter Phantast2k
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Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Why would *anyone* trust a government led by someone who on public went to say that "his country is too passively tolerant and should not leave people to live their lives as they please just because they obey the law"?
Rktk
Member
That was some sinister shit I have to pull up the quote:
David Cameron said:
Actually Dave, being left alone if we obey the law is a bare minimum of expectations.
So two separate countries both simultaneously broke the encryption on the file a the same time?
And they're using this sudden magical computational wizardry, need I remind you two separate countries independently at the same time, on these files? Instead of you know, the massive tactical advantage of using this ability on ANYTHING ELSE?
And Britain, knowing supposed details were exposed, kept agents operating anyway up until now?
Yeah.
Not buying it.
And they're using this sudden magical computational wizardry, need I remind you two separate countries independently at the same time, on these files? Instead of you know, the massive tactical advantage of using this ability on ANYTHING ELSE?
And Britain, knowing supposed details were exposed, kept agents operating anyway up until now?
Yeah.
Not buying it.
Slackbladder
Member
It was bullshit propaganda from the Government to distract attention away from the report by David Anderson QC who was highly critical of the Government. Pretty typical Government spin and lies. Fuck 'em.
Oppo
Member
even if you accept that - which I don't - he exposed other, inarguably greater traitors, who are still walking around untried, with their jobs.
Spiegel also wrote an article about the article and not only is a lot of it false and untrue, there is no real evidence in the whole article. It was just written to discredit Snowden.
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/the-sunday-times-ueber-snowden-dokumente-ungereimtheiten-in-der-berichterstattung-a-1038871.html
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/the-sunday-times-ueber-snowden-dokumente-ungereimtheiten-in-der-berichterstattung-a-1038871.html
Gentleman Jack
Member
Can you translate excerpts of this column into English?
Shai-Tan
Banned
Karsticles
Member
What else was he supposed to do?
Which is the real tragedy, being completely overlooked at the moment. Snowden committed crimes to reveal even bigger criminals who are still roaming about uncharged. The way he filtered information, he took into consideration the danger to American resources and spy activity abroad. This guy is a patriot if I ever saw one, and a hero. Maybe he is not to Americans today, but that's how his legacy will be in the books.
-Miranda was not imprisoned in 2013 in Heathrow. He was in Berlin. As a free man.
- Snowden didn't have any documents in Russia. He gave them away in Hong Kong.
- There is no reason to believe that the documents had information that blows up the cover of secret agents.
- Snowden didn't want to stay in Russia
- Contradicting quotes. "Blood on his hands" vs "no harm done"
-suspicious timing, which gets even more suspicious because the American side confirmed no harm was done to their sources
- First there was a massive mistake about David Miranda that he was in Moscow with the documents, while in reality he was in Berlin
- Snowden always said that he never took any documents with him. He did not have any after he left Hong Kong and said: The chances that China or Russia would get that information are 0%." There is a contradiction in the Sunday Times article which is left unanswered.
- In the Sunday Times they wrote, that British agents had to be pulled out. The linked to Ryan Gallagher who worked with the Snowden documents for a very long time and not a single name of a MI6 agent was ever mentioned in them.
http://notes.rjgallagher.co.uk/2015/06/sunday-times-snowden-china-russia-questions.html
- The cited unnamed source in the British ministry suggests by himself without any evidence, that Snowden would not have gotten asylum for nothing. Morales airplane is mentioned as well as the point that Snowden did not want to stay in Russia.
- they also write about the usual "blood on his hand" crap Governments usually use after a whistleblower published information while neither the British nor the American government were never able to prove that any harm was done after the WikiLeaks or the Snowden articles. They even had to admit, that nobody was harmed.
- They speculate, that the whole thing is more a reaction to the legislation efforts in the US and Great Britain. If they could discredit Snowden it would help stopping legislation against all that surveillance.
freakzilla149
Banned
At the same time you would have to be a credulous fool to believe that Snowden managed to get a hold of so many docs, take flight to Russia and not divulge critical information about UK/US operations that have nothing to do with the public interest.
Russia isn't gonna let him hold on to anything.
This isn't the first time a western spy has defected to Russia.
I have grown increasingly uneasy with media coverage in the last few days in the UK..
The papers ran with these Snowden stories (triggered by a UK government source) in the context of the snoopers charter going forward and there being increased scrutiny over security powers. Yesterday a young man becomes Britain's youngest suicide bomber (in Iraq) and the media narrative is very strongly that the internet radicalized him. The Muslim council of Britain rep on TV was even playing in to their hands saying that radicalisation isn't happening in mosques or in schools, and that it's happening online. Of course the MCoB wants to push back against unwarranted xenophobia targetting their faith and education institutions, but they're inadvertently helping the media narrative for greater control of the internet.
Theresa May is looking to rip internet freedoms a new hole and stories like these are her weapons.
And for the record, even if this is true, Snowden is still a hero for exposing the wanton, wasteful, over reaching power of a dubious and unaccountable elite.
JFK:
"We are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations."
Yes its a speech only fresh in my mind because of the new Muse album, but it was a great almost prescient speech that deserves to be seen in a new light.
He wasn't talking about the USA. How sad it is that the US has become everything that America once feared.
The papers ran with these Snowden stories (triggered by a UK government source) in the context of the snoopers charter going forward and there being increased scrutiny over security powers. Yesterday a young man becomes Britain's youngest suicide bomber (in Iraq) and the media narrative is very strongly that the internet radicalized him. The Muslim council of Britain rep on TV was even playing in to their hands saying that radicalisation isn't happening in mosques or in schools, and that it's happening online. Of course the MCoB wants to push back against unwarranted xenophobia targetting their faith and education institutions, but they're inadvertently helping the media narrative for greater control of the internet.
Theresa May is looking to rip internet freedoms a new hole and stories like these are her weapons.
And for the record, even if this is true, Snowden is still a hero for exposing the wanton, wasteful, over reaching power of a dubious and unaccountable elite.
JFK:
"We are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations."
Yes its a speech only fresh in my mind because of the new Muse album, but it was a great almost prescient speech that deserves to be seen in a new light.
He wasn't talking about the USA. How sad it is that the US has become everything that America once feared.
CesspoolofHatred
Member
This whole charade is some Daniel Ellsberg-esque bullshit. :|
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
so maybe some people have died and or be apprehended in a short time or pattern that is alerting British MI:6 that someone has the team roster eh....interesting side of this whole situation, people doing their jobs are in the middle. Wonder what Snowden has to say about it
John Dunbar
correct about everything
it's like you could see a gun pointed at that guy's head if the camera zoomed out a bit.
Princess Carl
Member
The Faceless Master
Member
shock and awe.
Gentleman Jack
Member
curlyfriski
Banned
This is hilarious. Does the reporter know anything? Embarrassing.
He knows that the government said X, and that is literally all he knows.
Gov't mouthpiece says what? "I yam a disgrace"
Rktk
Member
FunkyMunkey
Banned
Probably posted above but:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...-hes-just-writing-what-uk-govt-told-him.shtml
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...-hes-just-writing-what-uk-govt-told-him.shtml
Corronchilejano
Member
So much for mouthpieces.
Ah yes, "but they're bad too!" doesn't work for me really.
Mammoth Jones
Member
This is how I feel right now about it.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...a-notice-to-critics-of-snowden-hacking-story/
Well well. Zero corresponding evidence, story full of inaccuracies on even basic terminology and events, and now the paper's in full damage-control mode.
Someone has some crow to eat^
CesspoolofHatred
Member
Well this thread's a graveyard now. Guess the wind has gone out of a lot of sails.
Here's another gem, though: Actual response from Martin Ivens, editor of The Sunday Times, upon being confronted with Craig Murray's takedown of this story's claims.
I think you should address your remarks to 10 Downing St [UK Prime Minister's office]. If you think they have lied to us then so be it.
You printed the story you blithering idiot, and you failed at verifying the claims made and you already had to make one major retraction, and you did it sneaky as shit, and you went right to DMCA censorship attempts to shut up one guy in particular. You don't get to pass off the buck to the government for your complete ineptitude at journalism.
Simply unbelievable. I challenge ANYONE in this thread to try and claim that this story has any shred of credibility to it now.
Here's another gem, though: Actual response from Martin Ivens, editor of The Sunday Times, upon being confronted with Craig Murray's takedown of this story's claims.
I think you should address your remarks to 10 Downing St [UK Prime Minister's office]. If you think they have lied to us then so be it.
You printed the story you blithering idiot, and you failed at verifying the claims made and you already had to make one major retraction, and you did it sneaky as shit, and you went right to DMCA censorship attempts to shut up one guy in particular. You don't get to pass off the buck to the government for your complete ineptitude at journalism.
Simply unbelievable. I challenge ANYONE in this thread to try and claim that this story has any shred of credibility to it now.
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