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[abel empire]

Claybook dev/creator has debunked non technical fanboys on twitter about machine learning not being on Ps5 and claims its a misunderstood and misused buzzword by gaming fanatics and ML has infact been possible on almost all dx11 gpus and is well available on both ps5 and series x!

Well folks... cant wait to see what negative fabrications fanboys make up next about the ps5, cause its getting boring now.

 

[Birdo]

BLAST PROCESSING!

 

[EviLore]

Not seeing anything that should be controversial in Sebastian's tweets there.

 

[abel empire]

BLAST PROCESSING!

Its amazing how people misunderstand technologies but keep yammering online all the technical buzzwords as if they understood a thing.

 

[ZehDon]

I mean, we've already discussed ML on the PS4 Pro due to its FP16 support so the idea that PS5 would be incapable of it doesn't seem to track. The question - as it was for the PS4 Pro - is what kind of use can developers get out of it?

Will we see better AI? Or will developers use it for proprietary versions of image reconstruction? Microsoft specifically called out their DirectML hardware support, and the Xbox Series X has more cores on the GPU in comparison to the PS5. Does that translate to anything meaningful? Who knows. Certainly not fools on twitter with cartoon character profile pictures.

 

[Thief1987]

Yeah, capable, but how effecient - that's the question. Dedicated hardware make things more faster and effective.

 

[ethomaz]

Not seeing anything that should be controversial in Sebastian's tweets there.

Slow news maybe?

Edit - Add more to the topic.

I think what he is trying to say is that ML become something everybody is using as seller point but it performance is not there yet even on top hardware on PC.

It uses are still very in the early days due the performance restrictions.

 

[abel empire]

I mean, we've already discussed ML on the PS4 Pro due to its FP16 support so the idea that PS5 would be incapable of it doesn't seem to track. The question - as it was for the PS4 Pro - is what kind of use can developers get out of it?

Will we see better AI? Or will developers use it for proprietary versions of image reconstruction? Microsoft specifically called out their DirectML hardware support, and the Xbox Series X has more cores on the GPU in comparison to the PS5. Does that translate to anything meaningful? Who knows. Certainly not fools on twitter with cartoon character profile pictures.

Not really, actualky fanboys claimed. Ps5 didnt have any silicon to support ml after seeing the die shot. And claimed ml is only possible on series x

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I'll wait until someone points me out to something and say "that's ML in action!".

 

[Bernd Lauert]

If you really believed that PS5 generally couldn't do ML, you were clueless about how ML works. The question always was whether there's dedicated ML hardware in the consoles.

 

[CuNi]

I'm just waiting for the moment when ML and AI get to the point where we can let them create twitter bots and they'll start their own flame wars just like we do but more efficiently.

 

[Clear]

Same deal with Ray Tracing, its used as a marketing buzzword when the term just describes a fundamental technique

 

[MonarchJT]

Every gpu can do ML..
some are more specialized than others ... this is the difference between ps5 and xsx.
There is nothing false or wrong in those tweets

 

[AJUMP23]

Everything the dude said is correct, don't be upset that similar processors can do what other similar processors can do. Sony has no corner on ML.

 

[Faithless83]

Sounded like a PCMR "We can do it too!" reply. But what about instant resume? loljk don't at me with the "it can it just doesn't work as well replies.
It's a first on consoles and the original spider-man is a really good looking game already, more resources to make it even better.
Let the peasants hype the tech a bit too, you know?

 

[Spukc]

AI
Drones
3D printers
Machine Learning
Nano tech

 

[ethomaz]

Not really, actualky fanboys claimed. Ps5 didnt have any silicon to support ml after seeing the die shot. And claimed ml is only possible on series x

PS5 didn’t have hardware acceleration Ray-tracing until near the launch too... it is fine.
The console launched and delivered hardware accelerated Ray-tracing.

I appreciate Sony didn’t enter in that buzzword war instead they just release games that shows it.

 

[stranno]

Idk if he is right but thank you for Claybook, it is my niece's favourite game ever. Cool game, and the physics/deformation engine is pretty amazing.

 

[abel empire]

PS5 didn’t have hardware acceleration Ray-tracing until near the launch too... it is fine.
The console launched and delivered hardware accelerated Ray-tracing.

I appreciate Sony didn’t enter in that buzzword war instead they just release games that shows it.

Ps5 had always had hardware raytracing, saying it had near the launch is bonkers this just goes to show how much fabricated fud was made against ps5,
most notable fud was 9 teraflops, rdna 1+, no ml hardware, ssd doesnt improve graphics, ps5 overheats, ps5 is loud, series x will beat it by a huge margin, unreal 5 was running on a laptop, sony paid epic games for ue5, resident evil is struggling at 1080 60 on ps5, and much much more so much fud its embarrassing.

 

[abel empire]

Idk if he is right but thank you for Claybook, it is my niece's favourite game ever. Cool game, and the physics/deformation engine is pretty amazing.

Claybook is actually one of the first raytracing games it uses realtime raytracing on xbox one and ps4. And he created that alone and if you dont know him hes worked for ubisoft one of the graphics programmers on trials evolution and is now working for unity, so questioning if hes right is ridiculous!

 

[abel empire]

Idk if he is right but thank you for Claybook, it is my niece's favourite game ever. Cool game, and the physics/deformation engine is pretty amazing.

Claybook is actually one of the first raytracing games it uses realtime raytracing on xbox one and ps4. And he created that alone and if you dont know him hes worked for ubisoft one of the graphics programmers on trials evolution and is now working for unity, so questioning if hes right is ridiculous!

 

[abel empire]

Every gpu can do ML..
some are more specialized than others ... this is the difference between ps5 and xsx.
There is nothing false or wrong in those tweets

And do you know the difference! Or are you creating more fud! That will soon be debunked..

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Ps5 had always had hardware raytracing, saying it had near the launch is bonkers this just goes to show how much fabricated fud was made against ps5,
most notable fud was 9 teraflops, rdna 1+, no ml hardware, ssd doesnt improve graphics, ps5 overheats, ps5 is loud, series x will beat it by a huge margin, unreal 5 was running on a laptop, sony paid epic games for ue5, resident evil is struggling at 1080 60 on ps5, and much much more so much fud its embarrassing.

pro tip: stop following what randos on twitter say and just play some games

 

[namekuseijin]

well, we're fucked

imagine Dark Souls foes learning your petty pathetic human patterns...

 

[nikolino840]

Slow news maybe?

Edit - Add more to the topic.

I think what he is trying to say is that ML become something everybody is using as seller point but it performance is not there yet even on top hardware on PC.

It uses are still very in the early days due the performance restrictions.

But i don't get the buzzword thing

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

He's absolutely right. As someone who works in data science with daily use of machine learning / deep learning, plus exposure to many different types of hardware running said neural nets etc over the years, it is incredibly annoying to see people who clearly don't have even the slightest clue about how ML works throwing around irrelevant buzzwords they don't understand for some console/PC warrior crap, and trying to argue with you when you attempt to explain to them.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Wait, why would anyone do ML training on a console? Wouldn't you do all the ML training during dev on much larger computers with fast access to large amounts of data?

 

[abel empire]

pro tip: stop following what randos on twitter say and just play some games

I never followed them ive always known it was fud i just couldnt stand the ridiculous things they said. I mean if your gonna be a liar atleast be a good one or else its not worth it, the fud those guys where spreading was box office stuff.. and whats even worse is the fanatics who were buying it... i couldnt believe it man it was like witnessing a religious cult in the making. Fully grown adults with beards where spreading fud that only a 10 year old would believe but no its actually other grown men with beards who believed them.. jus saying man if those fanatics are the people voting then were all fuked.

 

[TheDreadLord]

Wait, why would anyone do ML training on a console? Wouldn't you do all the ML training during dev on much larger computers with fast access to large amounts of data?

Yeah, this is what I thought... But even if you have all the parameters needed to run, let's say, a neural network... You still need to do a ton of local arithmetic operations in the consoles. Perhaps they just don´t have enough resources to expend on that and it is up to the devs to decide on how to use the resources available.

 

[abel empire]

Wait, why would anyone do ML training on a console? Wouldn't you do all the ML training during dev on much larger computers with fast access to large amounts of data?

Ml has alot of abilities not just training weather/ blackhole simulations on super computers, you can use it on console for all sorts of things miles morales uses it for muscle deformation, nvidia uses it for dlss iphones use it for all sorts of applications.. most apis and processors support it.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Ml has alot of abilities not just training weather/ blackhole simulations on super computers, you can use it on console for all sorts of things miles morales uses it for muscle deformation, nvidia uses it for dlss iphones use it for all sorts of applications.. most apis and processors support it.

Man.. you really need to re-google how ML works.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Wait, why would anyone do ML training on a console? Wouldn't you do all the ML training during dev on much larger computers with fast access to large amounts of data?

You wouldn't.. why did you even ask though?

Nobody said you'd do the ML training on a console.. you still need to run the neural network on the console and use the model generated during training to do "ML on a console." The term "ML" refers to both the learning aspect (training), and then using the output of that learning to do something (inference.)

 

[abel empire]

Man.. you really need to re-google how ML works.

And do you care explaining where ive gone wrong in my short explanantion!

 

[IntentionalPun]

And do you care explaining where ive gone wrong in my short explanantion!

All ML utilizes training; the training is done on the backend for the Spiderman tech for instance. Then the console uses the model produced by that training, running it through a neural network, to produce the images we see.. that aspect is called inference.

Training = "learning"
Inference = "applying the learning"

Inference for any "ML" doesn't happen without the training happening first.

 

[Hari Seldon]

You wouldn't.. why did you even ask though?

Nobody said you'd do the ML training on a console.. you still need to run the neural network on the console and use the model generated during training to do "ML on a console." The term "ML" refers to both the learning aspect (training), and then using the output of that learning to do something (inference.)

I'm asking because what type of ultra deep NN would require some hefty horsepower just for inference? I honestly do not know the answer. I do know that shitty Amazon Echos can do inference as well as every web server that does recommendation algorithms for each user. They do not have powerful GPUs so I'm wondering what gaming ML inference is doing that requires so much power?

 

[abel empire]

All ML utilizes training; the training is done on the backend for the Spiderman tech for instance. Then the console uses the model produced by that training, running it through a neural network, to produce the images we see.. that aspect is called inference.

Training = "learning"
Inference = "applying the learning"

Inference for any "ML" doesn't happen without the training happening first.

So did i say it doesnt use training?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Cool, now can they clear up the misconceptions of buzzword talking points surrounding the SSDs?

Ps5 had always had hardware raytracing, saying it had near the launch is bonkers this just goes to show how much fabricated fud was made against ps5,
most notable fud was 9 teraflops, rdna 1+, no ml hardware, ssd doesnt improve graphics, ps5 overheats, ps5 is loud, series x will beat it by a huge margin, unreal 5 was running on a laptop, sony paid epic games for ue5, resident evil is struggling at 1080 60 on ps5, and much much more so much fud its embarrassing.

Uh, this isn't what happened (regarding ML). The question was never if PS5 supported ML because we knew it would. The question was how robust would the ML be. FP16 is essentially ML support, but it's not the only type.

None of the stuff surrounding the Insomniac ML use in Spider-Man Miles Morales or this developer's statements answers the real question: how extensive is PS5's ML capabilities. How low-precision does it go; for now we're still at FP16 which should be suitable for most scenarios. But please don't spread FUD as if the dominant talking point WRT ML on PS5 was that it lacked ML altogether.

Not really, actualky fanboys claimed. Ps5 didnt have any silicon to support ml after seeing the die shot. And claimed ml is only possible on series x

CPUs from the late 1980s have been used for ML tasks, you don't need specially dedicated silicon in a GPU to perform ML. It definitely helps, but it is not a requirement.

 

[ColdAfternoon]

This sounds to me that the dev meant you can run ml code through a compute shader.

 

[shaddam]

What next, secret xbro discord?

 

[abel empire]

Cool, now can they clear up the misconceptions of buzzword talking points surrounding the SSDs?



Uh, this isn't what happened (regarding ML). The question was never if PS5 supported ML because we knew it would. The question was how robust would the ML be. FP16 is essentially ML support, but it's not the only type.

None of the stuff surrounding the Insomniac ML use in Spider-Man Miles Morales or this developer's statements answers the real question: how extensive is PS5's ML capabilities. How low-precision does it go; for now we're still at FP16 which should be suitable for most scenarios. But please don't spread FUD as if the dominant talking point WRT ML on PS5 was that it lacked ML altogether.


CPUs from the late 1980s have been used for ML tasks, you don't need specially dedicated silicon in a GPU to perform ML. It definitely helps, but it is not a requirement.

I see your still spreading fud, if you dont know how good ps5 is in ml then why even question it. And anout the ssd weve already seen unreal 5, ratchet and clank and demon souls, so you can keep up the fud and keep making urself a clown.

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

ML is such a broad term, I don't think you can simply drop it in a sentence without looking like an idiot unless you are being very specific.

 

[MonarchJT]

And do you know the difference! Or are you creating more fud! That will soon be debunked..

i know the difference ..and yeah i don't think so. There will be major downplaying as always

 

[MonarchJT]

I see your still spreading fud, if you dont know how good ps5 is in ml then why even question it. And anout the ssd weve already seen unreal 5, ratchet and clank and demon souls, so you can keep up the fud and keep making urself a clown.

everyone spread fud eh

 

[abel empire]

everyone spread fud eh

As usual.. its the norm this days everybody is a computer engineer and everybody's uncle works at sony

 

[IntentionalPun]

So did i say it doesnt use training?

You babbled total nonsense that doesn't even fit how ML works at all, because all ML is the result of training. What you said just made no sense, and demonstrated a complete lack of understanding.

Which is fine.. but if you don't understand something.. then, don't act like you do.

 

[Max_Po]

Sebastian needs to stfu and tighten up the graphics on level 3 !!!

 

[abel empire]

You babbled total nonsense that doesn't even fit how ML works at all, because all ML is the result of training. What you said just made no sense, and demonstrated a complete lack of understanding.

Which is fine.. but if you don't understand something.. then, don't act like you do.

What nonesense did i babble? Can you please show me. Cause it seems u just jumped off ur seat and exploded like a nuke.

 

[JimboJones]

Does Joe Miller work for Sony?

 

[Azurro]

Pretty much, ever since the marriage of marketing and technology in the console space, multiple buzzwords have appeared to try to get a person to buy one console over the one from the competition.

People don't understand what ML does, how it does it and it this point it's kind of like magic for the lay person. It's just a funny thing that still there are people in this forum that are expecting the Xbox One to have a second GPU to let it perform far beyond the PS4...oh, sorry, wrong decade, the XBX to have something to let it perform far beyond the PS5.

 

[Heisenberg007]

True. Neither console has dedicated hardware for Machine Learning.

If either console performs ML related tasks, they consume GPU that would have used for other processes. I think APIs will play a somewhat crucial role here.