• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Opinion Drama Cringe David Jaffe sucks at Metroid

Perfo

Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Aug 22, 2010
5,924
422
1,155
www.youtube.com
Once in a while a videogame comes out. They should write on the cover a disclaimer "this is not your typical AAA netflix movie - the game" so people come prepared!

how many do you honestly want?

A way point on screen + upper left corner your next mission "hit the wall with your cannon" + achievement trophy gold "you hit your first target" + random loot reward and then finally a meaty cutscene 10 min long all shot in "one shot", because why not, with your typical b movie series seal of quality script on top of it!!!

Yikes, I already got horny at this idea. Anyone else?
 
Last edited:

HTK

Member
May 13, 2011
1,129
1,554
950
Vine Ok GIF


My stance hasn't lost any credibility and I think Jaffe will survive without you playing his defense force.
Right, I'll keep that in mind next time your stupid ass creates a thread. <- See Personal. Lesson learned? Probably not.
 
  • Fire
Reactions: DonJuanSchlong
Jun 23, 2020
3,801
7,287
490
Imagine sucking so much at videogames that you get stuck on the first fucking area of a metroid game, and not happy with that you make a video so everyone can see how you suck, lmao.

For those complaining about the lack of visual hints... How about using your brain? Like come on guys, I play games while high as fuck and have had 0 problems while playing this game.
 

Jeeves

Member
Dec 7, 2008
1,210
1,634
1,310
The strangest thing here is that he seemingly is refusing to aim any direction besides straight forward or straight up, despite the game having full 360 aiming that the design makes full use of. This is like trying to play Smash Bros. without ever using a double jump.

And if he had killed that enemy on the ceiling with diagonal fire there's a good chance he would have also hit the ceiling and revealed the way.

I get that not everyone approaches things the same way, but...this is one of the foundational tools that the game gives you from the outset.
 

cireza

Member
Jun 1, 2014
9,555
9,297
770
Give a visual indicator.
Yeah no. This is what Metroid is about. Trying stuff. From the very beginning there wasn't always visual indicators, because you know, even without a visual indicator, maybe that you should be guessing that something might be there. Because it makes sense, because of the overall layout, because of the map and rooms around you etc... That's what the series want you to do.

And this is without a doubt pretty difficult for people who have grown up with more recent games, where everything is always explained and displayed. Nowadays some people won't even try pressing a button if they are not told to...
 
Last edited:
Dec 7, 2008
4,054
1,983
1,415
Right, I'll keep that in mind next time your stupid ass creates a thread. <- See Personal. Lesson learned? Probably not.

His reasons for creating this thread are perfectly valid.....Jaffe is a tool for not following game direction and making a man baby video about his inability to play a game. Maybe quit riding Jaffes mushroom cap in hopes for a mention.
 

chixdiggit

Member
Dec 21, 2008
3,281
461
1,225
www.youtube.com
Yeah thats has been great hasnt it.

Not sure I understand the point?
The 11 year old picture was a product of the times and what was popular then (just like all the Battle Royal games now). Shiny graphics and interactive cutscenes with button prompts was all the rage. It's comparing two different things between two very different types of games. Like I'm not criticizing Metroid for being 2D or anything. There is room for Dread and Prime.

Besides, all the recent FPS games of recent times (at least the ones I played) have level design more similar to the picture that is 28 years old. Like is the eleven year old picture even a thing anymore?
 

Epic Sax CEO

Member
Nov 4, 2019
803
1,615
405
Haven't played it yet but this does look sus, if you have to go around shooting every random wall as there is no indication then its bad game design plain and simple.

I entered this thread ready to disagree with David, but he is right int his case. This situation was just so random, I thought that the sides of the floor where the place to shoot, not the middle, the middle looks just like a normal part of the scenery.

Edit:

Have to agree with Jaffe. Shooting non-descript walls to progress is horrible design. They don't have to put bright red objects like in Mirrors Edge but some sort of indicator is needed if that's a normal part of the game

Notice that when he shoots and breaks the floor you can see that in the gap is revealed little white arrows pointing up. How this makes sense? The indicator is only visible after you don't need it wut?
 
Last edited:

Missingnomer

Member
Aug 9, 2014
110
159
500
Texas
I played the first hour of the game and encountered this "puzzle" as well. I backtracked twice and noticed the game shut me out from the rest of the map, so I obviously knew I had to do something in one of the rooms the game gave me. My brother was watching me play it too and was just as confused as I was. So I just started shooting everything in every room I had access to until I found that ceiling and shot it. When it broke open, I just sighed and after I beat the first boss I quit the game. I tried to enjoy it, but Metroidvanias just aren't for me. Glad others are enjoying it.
 
  • Empathy
Reactions: cireza

OsirisBlack

Member
Feb 7, 2014
3,101
5,638
840
I'll agree with Jaffee for once here, I hate when there is random obscure shit you have to do for no reason other than to be obscure. If the game has made it clear it's design is that way than it's understandable and can be really cool in fact, but shoot a ceiling for no reason out of nowhere is silly.
This has been a thing since Metroid on Nintendo, I bet none of you know about the elevator wall climbing glitch. That wasn’t explained either and it’s something you either figured out or you didn’t as this was before the internet I’d you were lucky someone you knew told you about it. Metroid has been like his since day 1.
 

HTK

Member
May 13, 2011
1,129
1,554
950
His reasons for creating this thread are perfectly valid.....Jaffe is a tool for not following game direction and making a man baby video about his inability to play a game. Maybe quit riding Jaffes mushroom cap in hopes for a mention.
Just like this guy cares so much about Jaffe's opinion that he created a thread about it. One guy makes a man baby video, another makes a thread based off of a man baby video and here we are in a terrible thread insulting each other. I don't like or dislike Jaffe, I just agree with his accurate assessment. Regardless how exploratory the world is, shooting at everything in sight to uncover how to progress is a stupid design.
 
Dec 7, 2008
4,054
1,983
1,415
This has been a thing since Metroid on Nintendo, I bet none of you know about the elevator wall climbing glitch. That wasn’t explained either and it’s something you either figured out or you didn’t as this was before the internet I’d you were lucky someone you knew told you about it. Metroid has been like his since day 1.

The ones complaining also probably dont know about using bombs to reach higher points too which then reveal openings to roll through. Hidden walls have always been a thing with this series. As someone who's played them all, going into this i expected to have walls to shoot through at some point.
 

Sleepwalker

Member
Jan 8, 2012
2,016
3,041
940
Canada
The question is why does it matter? He has an opinion and he's entitled to it. Why so defensive? Just disagree and move on.


I think he's wrong fwiw but I can see how that would be annoying for someone new to this type of game.
 

lughnasadh123

Member
Feb 14, 2021
137
162
220
I can't really disagree with calling it shoddy design when it's more about blinding shooting around things rather than being based more on observation and logic. Still seems like an overreaction overall.
 

Bodomism

Banned
Jun 1, 2020
1,824
4,558
765
David said there's no indicator to see the block requires to be shot despite the minimap already displayed there's a platform right above him and the only thing he needs to do is shooting at the top. Come on now, Metroid Dread has 360 degree aim that can be utilized fluidly to shot the invisible blocks smoothly.



Look at the map if you're playing game like metroid it's your biggest clue. Use 360 degree aim ffs.





and if you're lazy to analyze the map just go crazy with your arsenals and you're going to get more destructive weapons to settle that business effortlessly
 
Last edited:

AJUMP23

Member
Sep 29, 2020
6,650
8,340
620
This shouldn't be about Jaffe sucking, but just needing encouragement. Jaffe if you drag a person they are no longer going to want to continue, so instead tell Jaffe he will get it, keep working, read the tutorials and press on. The feeling of being lost at times is the feeling of Metroid. I remember feeling lost in the NES original, my brother and I never gave up, kept shooting and bombing until we found a new path, and then we were awestruck when we did it.
 

Trunx81

Neo Member
Aug 16, 2021
25
12
90
I have no clue who Jaffe is, but I can agree that the graphic design of Dread makes it sometimes not that easy to spot the shootable blocks. Not like in prior Metroid games. But it’s still playable.

At least I haven’t encountered any moment like searching for Kraid in Super Metroid. Yet.
 
Dec 12, 2018
2,483
3,159
465
David said there's no indicator to see the block requires to be shot despite the minimap already displayed there's a platform right above him and the only thing he needs to do is shooting at the top. Come on now, Metroid Dread has 360 degree aim that can be utilized fluidly to shot the invisible blocks smoothly.



Look at the map if you're playing game like metroid it's your biggest clue. Use 360 degree aim ffs.





and if you're lazy to analyze the map just go crazy with your arsenals and you're going to get more destructive weapons to settle that business effortlessly

this.

it just baffles my mind that some people don't know what to do in a moment like this. it's pretty clear, or isn't it? they could make it more obvious but that would come at the expense of how the game is designed. You suppose to feel accomplished by exploring and figuring stuff out. By making it too obvious it would take away this sense of accomplishment... but this is literally just looking at the map and be like "well lets try shooting it"... shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
 
Last edited:

Neff

Member
Feb 6, 2012
13,436
2,825
1,080
UK
Any time there's a one block-thick ledge spanning the width of the screen, with unexplored areas either above or below it, you fucking shoot it/bomb it. That's fucking Metroid. You shoot and bomb suspicious pieces of environment all the time, but these are the most obvious ones of all.

I think the worst part is the guy literally only shoot horizontally.

He's clearly not invested.

I agree with Jaffe. wtf is this design. I would 100% think this is a room I visit later

Metroid is a series which teases you with shit which is geographically right under your nose yet seemingly unreachable. Then you investigate a little and find out it actually is. Or sometimes, it isn't. You won't know until you try, but it pays to be suspicious at all times.
 
Last edited:

rofif

Member
Sep 13, 2019
8,707
12,701
670
this.

it just baffles my mind that some people don't know what to do in a moment like this. it's pretty clear, or isn't it? they could make it more obvious but that would come at the expense of how the game is designed. You suppose to feel accomplished by exploring and figuring stuff out. By making it too obvious it would take away this sense of accomplishment... but this is literally just looking at the map and be like "well lets try shooting it"... shouldn't take a rocket scientist to that figure out.
It's not a secret room. It's a main path (so they say).
I play games my whole live and I would not shoot that.
I don't get it why would I go around shooting walls ? There is another corridor on mini map. I assume there is entry from another room on the right later on
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Orenji Neko

Wonko_C

Member
Jul 5, 2010
5,683
2,115
1,235
Cancun, Mexico.
In no way Metroid's trademark "find your way" could be considered bad game design, that's insane. Finding your way through "dead-ends", figuring things out is precisely what makes the game fun and addictive. That's actually GOOD game design.

This is why I mostly prefer Japanese AAA game design over western. (I know the game was joint dev between Japan-Spain, but still.) The west often tries to spoonfeed the player and make mechanics and controls "invisible", instead of something to learn and master. It seems like they're afraid of making the games too "gamey" (the irony seems lost on them) and instead want to keep chasing Hollywood.
 
Last edited:

fart town usa

Member
May 31, 2009
4,195
3,783
1,260
www.youtube.com
I have no clue who Jaffe is, but I can agree that the graphic design of Dread makes it sometimes not that easy to spot the shootable blocks. Not like in prior Metroid games. But it’s still playable.

At least I haven’t encountered any moment like searching for Kraid in Super Metroid. Yet.
He co-created the Twisted Metal series and directed the first God of War game.

He was a big deal at PlayStation back in the day, still is I'm sure with some people but now he just seems to provide commentary through YouTube, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Trunx81 and Ailynn

Bodomism

Banned
Jun 1, 2020
1,824
4,558
765
Hold up it's in the mini map?

Bill Nye Super Bowl Ad GIF by ADWEEK
There's a full map and mini map, then you can download the map at the network station where you can see if there's an explorable area or just a dead end base on the outline of the map.

As the game progress and the areas get more complex you'll receive an ability to scan for a route.
 
Last edited:

chaseroni

Member
Nov 27, 2018
415
584
370
Alright I think the thread needs to be renamed GAF sucks at Metroid because holy hell how is it so hard to grasp this concept that has been a staple of the series since day fucking 1.
There are SO many indicators in that room it's ridiculous.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Sep 21, 2014
8,324
11,967
930
The strangest thing here is that he seemingly is refusing to aim any direction besides straight forward or straight up, despite the game having full 360 aiming that the design makes full use of. This is like trying to play Smash Bros. without ever using a double jump.

And if he had killed that enemy on the ceiling with diagonal fire there's a good chance he would have also hit the ceiling and revealed the way.

I get that not everyone approaches things the same way, but...this is one of the foundational tools that the game gives you from the outset.

I would bet money if it were the 20 year version of himself he would have no trouble figuring any of this stuff out. People start regressing mentally especially when dont take care of their health.
 

Neff

Member
Feb 6, 2012
13,436
2,825
1,080
UK
I would bet money if it were the 20 year version of himself he would have no trouble figuring any of this stuff out. People start regressing mentally especially when dont take care of their health.

He's only 4 years older than me and I'm blazing through it. I don't think I've been stuck for longer than 5 mins or so. But then, I've played this series a lot and know what to look for.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

Member
Nov 1, 2020
1,222
2,676
425
And now we see why he became irrelevant as a game developer.
Yup. Gamers nowadays love it when any random unmarked wall/floor/ceiling might be breakable and the only way to find out is trial and error. This is great game design.

Who doesn’t love running around shooting at walls like a dumbass? That’s what I call a cerebral puzzle right there. Time to join us in the 21st century, Jaffe
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Sep 21, 2014
8,324
11,967
930
He's only 4 years older than me and I'm blazing through it. I don't think I've been stuck for longer than 5 mins or so. But then, I've played this series a lot and know what to look for.

Has some to do with age, but alot to do with health. Genetics also play a role.
 

Bodomism

Banned
Jun 1, 2020
1,824
4,558
765
Yup. Gamers nowadays love it when any random unmarked wall/floor/ceiling might be breakable and the only way to find out is trial and error. This is great game design.

Who doesn’t love running around shooting at walls like a dumbass? That’s what I call a cerebral puzzle right there. Time to join us in the 21st century, Jaffe
Look at the map and use your arsenals to solve the problem. The weapons and aeion abilities are the key to progress.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Oct 10, 2017
4,748
7,677
685
Yup. Gamers nowadays love it when any random unmarked wall/floor/ceiling might be breakable and the only way to find out is trial and error. This is great game design.

Who doesn’t love running around shooting at walls like a dumbass? That’s what I call a cerebral puzzle right there. Time to join us in the 21st century, Jaffe
If that’s how you are playing it .. umm I don’t know if you should be calling anyone a dumbass. 🤷‍♂️