• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Deep Down, Sales, current stable of IP, and Where Capcom Goes from Here

Reaaallyy??

Remake HD -- K2
RE Zero HD -- Tose
Revelations 1 & 2 -- Tose
Umbrella Corps -- K2
Monster Hunter Stories -- Marvelous
Mega Man Legacy Collection -- Digital Eclipse
The Disney Afternoon Collection -- Digital Eclipse
Mega Man Legacy Collection 2 -- Now Production and Bullets Co., Ltd
Street Fighter 5 -- Dimps
Marvel vs Capcom Infinite -- unconfirmed, but i'm pretty sure 8ing is behind it

That's just being so pedantic what next Drakes 1,2,3 aren't In-House because Bluepoint made the HD remasters or because SONY Bend made the Uncharted Golden Abyss lol Dimps just helped to program both Street Fighter 4 and V (never seen anyone have issues with ST 4 but there you go )
 
The more I look at the gifs of Deep Down the more unrealistic the chances of it ever existing are
Some of y'all are still falling for the ol' "Fake HUD" trick, I see
Looking back now, everything they showed screamed tech demo/target renders/vaporware.
longdi said:
Bullshot! Killzone Bullshot!
I dont think any games today look as good as that still.
PS4 can't push those visuals.
Deep Down was a tech demo impossible to run in current gen.
Why are people still posting incorrect things like this? As has been pointed out already multiple times in the thread, the first GIF in the OP, with all the whirling debris, is from a publicly playable PS4 demo. And...

And they wanted this to be 60fps with 4 player co-op.
...it was 60fps, and it did have 4 player co-op. It also wasn't 1080p, but that doesn't make it not exist.
 

Sesha

Member
They are lying

If development of these titles began before the restructuring then they aren't lying. Except about SFV's percentages, ostensibly.

It's true that a lot of people from Capcom worked on it, but the main development was done by Tose.

Seems development was split fairly evenly going by the credits.

Not true. More like 20% and mostly graphics.

It's what they claimed. Going by the credits Capcom seemed to mostly do supervisory work + art though.

Trust me, this game is not made by Capcom...

In the case of Infinite they've claimed development is entirely in-house IIRC. We'll found it soon enough.
 
This is one of the titles I was excited about, any new news was welcomed and once it was announced it would be F2P I didn't hear anything more, it seemed to just fade away.
 
They are lying
It's true that a lot of people from Capcom worked on it, but the main development was done by Tose.

Its a spin off and was a Handheld game, just like God Of War on PSP or Uncharted on Vita. All the Remasters of the Uncharted series was handed out to BluePoint. So why single out Capcom

And Street Fighter IV programming duties were handed out to Dimps, no difference to part V
 

Kyoufu

Member
RE7 sold almost 4 million and MHW isn't even out yet, wtf are you talking about?

Chaos Legion
Okami
Rival Schools
Viewtiful Joe
Dino Crisis
etc.

That's what I'm talking about. Resident Evil? There are like 3 RE releases scheduled for the next few months at least, I'm obviously not talking about that IP.
 
Chaos Legion
Okami
Rival Schools
Viewtiful Joe
Dino Crisis
etc.

That's what I'm talking about. Resident Evil? There are like 3 RE releases scheduled for the next few months at least, I'm obviously not talking about that IP.

Monster Hunter World is depressing when you consider.

I'd take MHW over all that and so would consumers.

rofl, nice goal-post moving again, Kyoufu! You're getting good at it.
 

Kyoufu

Member
I dunno,i'm rewatching some gameplay right now and looks totally doable for current gen imo.

If it wasn't by their Online Games division then maybe it would be doable, but if they want to make a game of that fidelity that also isn't complete ass then it'd probably be too expensive for them to develop. After Dragon's Dogma I don't think they'd be willing to pump so much money into a new IP again without external funding.
 

synce

Member
I think they'll be taking the Konami route soon enough, same with other Japanese publishers. Mobile and pachinko because why not, if you just want to make quick and easy money.
 
Mega Man Legacy Collection 2 -- Now Production and Bullets Co., Ltd

Who are Now Production and Bullets Co., Ltd? I guess I shouldn't be surprised that those games would be treated with way less care than 1-6 but wow...
 

Newboi

Member
The same thing that happened to Deep Down and Panta Rei is what happened to UE4, Watchdogs, The Division, the Witcher 3, FFXV and Luminous etc. Everyone massively overshot what they thought current generation consoles would be capable of in terms of hardware power. I mean, Epic thought consoles would be powerful enough to perform GI in real-time!!!

I think deep down was going to be a launch ip designed to test the waters with their new engine. When they realized that their engine was specced well above what consoles were capable of, they didn't think continuing to invest in retooling an entire engine for the development of one unproven ip was worth it.
 

Fiendcode

Member
Reaaallyy??

Remake HD -- K2
RE Zero HD -- Tose
Revelations 1 & 2 -- Tose
Umbrella Corps -- K2
Monster Hunter Stories -- Marvelous
Mega Man Legacy Collection -- Digital Eclipse
The Disney Afternoon Collection -- Digital Eclipse
Mega Man Legacy Collection 2 -- Now Production and Bullets Co., Ltd
Street Fighter 5 -- Dimps
Marvel vs Capcom Infinite -- unconfirmed, but i'm pretty sure 8ing is behind it
K2 is inhouse, Capcom owns them.

According to themselves, yes. I should clarify that it means in-house development of new titles. Revelations 2 was in-house, SFV was 60-70% in-house, Infinite is in-house as well. Stories was probably in-development before the restructuring, hence why Marvelous did it.
Rev 2 was Tose, except the Vita port which was Frima Studio.

RE never been outsourced and done In-House (for the main series) Dead Rising been outsourced since the 2nd game I just feel there's only so much you can do with a Dead Rising game tbh and the series as run its course for me. Outsorucing Lost Planet 3 really hurt the game and the series and I love to see Capcom make a new one back In-House.

I'm sure Capcom have said they'll no longer outsource and were building two new R&D development studios/buildings back in 2014
Capcom Vancouver is still inhouse.

Also mainline RE has been codeveloped externally before. Nextech on Code Veronica and Tose on 0 and Revelations 1-2. RE5/6/7 had an army of contracted studios on them as well, like most AAA games these days.
 

ffvorax

Member
I think they had just too big expectations.

RE7 is a good game, but for a reboot franchise, at least we can call it because of new chars and the first person, it sold decent to me.

SFV sold less than expected, but it was "killed" at first by the poor SP content... because the numbers are by normal people that want that and are not satisfied by the online competitive alone.

Both are good games, so I hope they continue with this and don't go back, expecially for RE. (we already have revelations for the action please)

They did good numbers on many other only DD titles I guess...
 

ultrazilla

Member
Hey Capcom-Just give us a brand new 2D side scrolling, parallax background, pixel art style GHOSTS N' GOBLINS and all your money problems will vanish. Who's with me?

hqdefault.jpg
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It literally existed at TGS and was playable by the public. As duckroll said it's not like the game was impossibly high spec. The environments were bland corridors and rooms.
Yea but absolutely good luck to Capcom actually making more than a playable tech demo. We've heard nothing from panta rhei for a reason my dude.
 
It "exists" in the same way that that Halo 2 e3 demo exists.
The situations are nothing alike. The Halo 2 demo was a ramshackle vertical slice that avoided the big, open levels the series was known for. It was played by a Bungie employee when shown off, to carefully avoid attempting actions that would crash it--also a far cry from the usual emergent combat of the series. It looked very good, but central pillars of the game design were absent and adding them back took resources away from the visuals.

The Deep Down demo looked like it did while including every major factor of the announced gameplay design: a personalized small-scale hub, instanced procedural dungeons, 4-player online co-op, and 60fps performance. Importantly, it was played by many members of the public, who were able to act freely. As an early demo it was scarce on content, but there wasn't any obvious indication that enormous additions would be required that might break the engine.

Yea but absolutely good luck to Capcom actually making more than a playable tech demo. We've heard nothing from panta rhei for a reason my dude.
At least we agree that your initial claim "they couldn't do it" was wrong. Your new version "sure they did it, but they couldn't in a released product" isn't well-justified, though. There's no way you can know this. There's any number of possible non-technical reasons the game disappeared (maybe it just wasn't fun, etc.). And even if the cause was that Panta Rhei was a bad engine, that still doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't achieve the target at all.
 

diabl0

Member
Capcom have screwed up big over the last 2 gens. They have tarnished their franchises, and we are not talking 1 or 2, we talking a good number of them. Capcom is sitting on a goldmine of awesome franchises but dont have thr greatest minds at work.

I genuinely hope Itsunos next game is Devil May Cry 5 and is revolutionised rather than a rehash of the old stuff.RE7 was a good step in the right direction for Capcom, and seriously hope they continue making sound decisions like that and less controversial ones (DmC). Sure the games may not have hit their projected number as of yet, but seems as though RE7 isnt that far off. Capcoms advertising budget seems quite weak as I hardly see any billboard posters or tv spots of capcom games as of latr in UK. Last one i infact saw was DMC4 which was 10 years ago.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The situations are nothing alike. The Halo 2 demo was a ramshackle vertical slice that avoided the big, open levels the series was known for. It was played by a Bungie employee when shown off, to carefully avoid attempting actions that would crash it--also a far cry from the usual emergent combat of the series. It looked very good, but central pillars of the game design were absent and adding them back took resources away from the visuals.

The Deep Down demo looked like it did while including every major factor of the announced gameplay design: a personalized small-scale hub, instanced procedural dungeons, 4-player online co-op, and 60fps performance. Importantly, it was played by many members of the public, who were able to act freely. As an early demo it was scarce on content, but there wasn't any obvious indication that enormous additions would be required that might break the engine.
And Deep Down's demo was of a single cae area in an incredibly enclosed space with incredibly limited parameters. How often do we see studios drop entire projects that were hands on and then never heard of again including the engine that powered the demo?


At least we agree that your initial claim "they couldn't do it" was wrong. Your new version "sure they did it, but they couldn't in a released product" isn't well-justified, though. There's no way you can know this. There's any number of possible non-technical reasons the game disappeared (maybe it just wasn't fun, etc.). And even if the cause was that Panta Rhei was a bad engine, that still doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't achieve the target at all.
Not with those effects it couldn't. Hell you could even see immediate heavy framerate drops the second the a player started using magic the last time we saw the game. And that was ONE player using it, let alone four players all spamming magic where even on the reduced screen size you can see noticeable judder. No way this game was going to be 60fps on this hardware you kidding me?
 
Please any time a game sells over 3 million units at full price it's done well when all is said and done. Some here have double standards and is almost obsessed with sales. There's loads of Talk of Yakuza on here, an IP that's hasn't expanded it's base since the 2nd game (which I'm sure still is the best selling in the series) and I don't think has ever sold a million units each title: That's one of SEGA main brands and takes hundreds of staff to make each game. Yet no worries from some here (there again it's a PS exclusive) both Nier and Nioh have been in development for years sold barely over a million and that's the best thing ever?(one forgets they're PS exclusives) and the likes of GT and God of War latest entries saw a massive decline in sales, but let's focus on Capcom?

Dead Rising 4, I get that's an IP going nowhere and in trouble, but otherwise RE 4 done really well and to see a Vs fighter sell over 1 million units is good in today's market. Capcom only silly move was not to make on the One which would have helped even more with sales.

Still a huge fan of Capcom and think they're a top corp and really looking forward to the upcoming Monster World and hopefully a sequel to Dragon Dogma

There is a very very big difference, between what an extremely niche game (Nier) that has been made by a shoestring budget (and in less than 2 years) has to sell to be impressive, compared to one of the biggest franchises in gaming industry today, that had an entirely new engine built (with a new impressive rendering tech) for it and had more than 700 people credit for its development.

Like it was said before, context matters a lot and you can't just take a number and say it's good or bad for any or every game. And please, don't tell me you just implied that people like and talk about Yakuza being an impressive game, simply because it is a Sony exclusive. Where the hell were all these supposed blind Sony fans before Yakuza 0? Yakuza series has always been exclusive and it has always been extremely niche even on this board.

People liking Yakuza 0 and talking about its sales being impressive has nothing to do with it being a Sony exclusive. People are liking it, because Yakuza 0 is the best game in the series and for the first time in a very long time, the series got some good marketing so people actually knew what the hell it was (not to mention that we at YakuzaGAF are busting our asses trying to get more people to play it). And Yakuza 0 is in fact the best selling Yakuza game in west. Yakuza series is doing so well in the west as of late, that the RGG team at Japan was reassured by western sales and decided to go for Kiwami 2.

So please, stop with the BS argument that people have something against Capcom games, or that Sony exclusives are falsely being praised as commercial successes.
 
There is a very very big difference, between what an extremely niche game (Nier) that has been made by a shoestring budget (and in less than 2 years) has to sell to be impressive, compared to one of the biggest franchises in gaming industry today, that had an entirely new engine built (with a new impressive rendering tech) for it and had more than 700 people credit for its development.
.

How do you know how much Nier cost? (none of us do) and the likes of Nioh have been in production since the PS2 and for all this talk of 700 staff how many of those staff worked only on RE 7. A lot Japanese corps have lines and so have staff that are able to work on multiple projects at the same time, never mind a lot of the RE 7 staff were outsourced.

The bias on this board is bonkers somtimes. RE 7 is a sales disaster, so is Forza Horizon III, Halo V, but games like Yakuza, Nier, Nioh are success stories and so is Horizon Zero Dawn, Which its self had huge staff working on it and lots of outsourcing is a hit despite is selling less than Halo V and just as much as RE 7

Yakuza 0 is the best game in the series and for the first time in a very long time, the series got some good marketing so people actually knew what the hell it was

I'll say Yakuza 2 is the better game myself and Yakuza is a series that hasn't grown its user base since the 2nd game. The series can barely sell close to a million units per title even though its got hundreds of staff working on it and its meant to be one SEGA's biggest IP
 

Sayad

Member
Not true. More like 20% and mostly graphics.

It's what they claimed. Going by the credits Capcom seemed to mostly do supervisory work + art though.
SFV lead roles are mostly Capcom, game director, battle director, lead artists and animators are mostly Capcom, but the bulk of the labor work is outsourced to Dimps and some other none Japanese companies, some of it is even outsourced to free lancers.

For MvCI, according to Capcom it's the first in house fighting game they made in about 10 years, but then again, about ~70% of the game's animation is taken from MvC3 which was outsourced! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
How do you know how much Nier cost? (none of us do) and the likes of Nioh have been in production since the PS2 and for all this talk of 700 staff how many of those staff worked only on RE 7. A lot Japanese corps have lines and so have staff that are able to work on multiple projects at the same time, never mind a lot of the RE 7 staff were outsourced.

The bias on this board is bonkers somtimes. RE 7 is a sales disaster, so is Forza Horizon III, Halo V, but games like Yakuza, Nier, Nioh are success stories and so is Horizon Zero Dawn, Which its self had huge staff working on it and lots of outsourcing is a hit despite is selling less than Halo V and just as much as RE 7
Because Yoko Taro himself said that they didn't even had enough budget to make any DLC for the game. They had to rip off assets from OG Nier on PS3, to even make that one DLC that they released a few months ago.

Again, you are ignoring the context and just seeing conspiracy theories. Yakuza and Nier both have been said to be very successful games, by the devs themselves and anyone who actually follows Drakengard and Yakuza series, will know that's true. Whereas recent mainline RE games have sold more than 5 million copies and Capcom expected RE7 to sell 4 million by the end of March 2017 and wants it to sell more than 5 million copies by March 2018.

You seem to have this wrong notion that selling 3 million copies, means that the game is doing great no matter what was its development cost. Well, you might wanna tell that to Square Enix, cause TR 2013 sold 3.4 million copies when it was released, yet not only SE was disappointed, but they actually reported extraordinary loss from TR and other SE games at the time for not meeting their sales expectations.

Like I said, you can't take a number and say that it is good or bad for any and every game.

I'll say Yakuza 2 is the better game myself and Yakuza is a series that hasn't grown its user base since the 2nd game. The series can barely sell close to a million units per title even though its got hundreds of staff working on it and its meant to be one SEGA's biggest IP
Yakuza games are not that expensive to make. They don't need to sell 1 million copies to be profitable, since the RGG studio members are masters of reusing assets and working on a budget. In the past 12 years since the series was first created, SEGA has released 13 mainline and spin-off Yakuza/RGG games, and is planning to release 2 more next year. You don't release 13 games over the course of 12 years (15 in 13 years), if you are not making profit.

Again, you cannot compare Yakuza to big name games like RE and say that people are being hypocrites by saying that Yakuza is doing well, but RE needs to sell more.

Also you got some nice dodging skill there. Like I said, Yakuza 0 is the best selling Yakuza game in the west. So, stop acting like Yakuza 2 was the peak for the series from a commercial point of view.
 

Xe4

Banned
It looked really good, but always felt like it was Capcom trying to ape Dark Souls to me. Unless the team was really into it, I don't think it was too much of a loss either way. Their engine being dead is a much bigger deal in any case.
D&D might have made them more visible, but they certainly didn't create the trend.

sleeping-beauty-dragon.jpg




Damn Japanese dragons!

... I should really watch Sleeping Beauty again soon. I forget how good that shit looks sometimes.
 
The fact that they made a completely new engine for RE7, pretty much confirms that Panta Rhei is dead.

This confirms nothing. Square-Enix clearly stated they had so many issues with their Luminous Engine and spent 10 years to do FFXV. They ditched it and replaced it with UE4 for their other games but still FFXV was reelased with Luminous Engine.
Panta Rhei when first showcased was meant to work on PS4 with the exclusive Deep Down. It was part of the PS4 reveal and TGS shows for both Capcom and Sony. I don't think this was canceled forever. Put on Hold maybe but not abandoned. PS4 is the only console yet to not have gotten an exclusive game from Capcom (even timed). I am pretty sure this engine will see the light again with the PS4 exclusive DMC5.
 
Reaaallyy??

Remake HD -- K2
RE Zero HD -- Tose
Revelations 1 & 2 -- Tose
Umbrella Corps -- K2
Monster Hunter Stories -- Marvelous
Mega Man Legacy Collection -- Digital Eclipse
The Disney Afternoon Collection -- Digital Eclipse
Mega Man Legacy Collection 2 -- Now Production and Bullets Co., Ltd
Street Fighter 5 -- Dimps
Marvel vs Capcom Infinite -- unconfirmed, but i'm pretty sure 8ing is behind it

8ing is not behind mvci and most of sfv is being made at capcom iirc
 

Gen X

Trust no one. Eat steaks.
Dig deep into your archives Capcom and give some old games the "Reloaded" treatment. *coughforgottenworldscough*
 
At least we agree that your initial claim "they couldn't do it" was wrong. Your new version "sure they did it, but they couldn't in a released product" isn't well-justified, though. There's no way you can know this. There's any number of possible non-technical reasons the game disappeared (maybe it just wasn't fun, etc.). And even if the cause was that Panta Rhei was a bad engine, that still doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't achieve the target at all.

We still do not know the technical specs of teh PS4 60fps footage they did have at one point playable (beyond the fact that it was 1280X720 and mainly 60 fps). I am not sure if the voxel fluid simulations from the original demo for the dragon fire were maintained, or if they were using voxel-based indirect specular lighting in that playable PS4 demo like the original "PC" demo had.

I would just like to see Phanta Rei one day for technical purposes.
 

MrCarter

Member
Reaaallyy??

Remake HD -- K2
RE Zero HD -- Tose
Revelations 1 & 2 -- Tose
Umbrella Corps -- K2
Monster Hunter Stories -- Marvelous
Mega Man Legacy Collection -- Digital Eclipse
The Disney Afternoon Collection -- Digital Eclipse
Mega Man Legacy Collection 2 -- Now Production and Bullets Co., Ltd
Street Fighter 5 -- Dimps
Marvel vs Capcom Infinite -- unconfirmed, but i'm pretty sure 8ing is behind it

RE7 - in-house
Monster Hunter World - in-house
MvCi - Apparently done by the XvsSF developers so in-house.
SFV - 60-70% of the staff are from Capcom and the rest was dimps I believe. There is a quote from Polygon below citing this.

For Street Fighter 4, Capcom hired Dimps, the long-running independent studio run by Street Fighter 1 creator Takashi Nishiyama, to handle the bulk of the game’s development, with Capcom Japan overseeing the game and providing support. For Street Fighter 5, the ratio flipped, with Capcom Japan accounting for about 60-70% of the staff, in part because the scale of the project required more people. "It was a complete shift," says Ono.

https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/2/12/10872572/street-fighter-5-annotated-gallery

Although most of their development is now in-house that of course didn't mean they don't out source character models, stages, textures etc to other independent companies. It's pretty common in this industry.
 

nded

Member
Capcom's approach to entering the AAA market is pretty weird.

Instead of having AAA development and marketing budgets they just keep making solid A/B-tier games with barely any promotion and the occasional bizarre cost-cutting measure then mothballing franchises when they don't spontaneously generate blockbuster sales.
 
Top Bottom