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[Vergil1992]

The best Xbox feature is system level 120Hz output with LFC. With this even games dropping below 40 won't look like shit with frame doubling.

Sony leave this to devs to decide and as always... most don't give a shit.

Yes, this was something that DF mentioned very frequently before. I suppose that once this is assumed (the largest VRR window on Xbox) it is not necessary to repeat it in each analysis. In any case, I don't think it is very common for PS5 to drop below 48fps. It happens in the video but Tom was intentionally pushing the engine (on both platforms) by raising and lowering the camera to show that the DRS arrives "late" and that is why there are frame drops. In a real scenario these frame drops cannot be easily reproduced.


I was surprised not to see screenshots in this thread that "prove" that DF is lying and actually looks better on PS5 for some hidden reason, or that they are omitting that side by side PS5 has better performance, I guess after a tireless search They haven't found anything. Out of curiosity I have looked at the framerate in identical scenes and in the video they are the same or Xbox has the advantage.

 

[Senua]

DF downplaying PS5 as always

Why is the PS5 so persecuted? I see it spouted so often, almost every DF thread actually. I wonder what DF must have against the PS5, it's very bizzare if so, please inform me Gaffers!

 

[Mister Wolf]

I'm glad developers are figuring out how to make raytraced lighting more performant.

 

[Nydius]

The usual suspects arguing that this means we need yet another round of Pro consoles make me laugh. These consoles (except the Series S) are, in effect, "Pro" version of the last gen "Pro" versions and we're already back to a 30fps world unless you have a VRR display. You know what we're going to get with a new round of "Pro" consoles? A year or two of cross-cross-gen development where the games manage to perform at 60fps on the "Pro" console, but then they'll jack up the visual bells and whistles and we'll be back to 30fps with dynamic resolution scaling and people asking for the next-gen of consoles, somehow thinking that'll fix the issues.

What's the definition of insanity again?

 

[NEbeast]

lol at those resolution

Yet people are saying a pro isn't needed.

 

[Gaiff]

What's the definition of insanity again?

Playing at 30fps.

 

[daninthemix]

The usual suspects arguing that this means we need yet another round of Pro consoles make me laugh. These consoles (except the Series S) are, in effect, "Pro" version of the last gen "Pro" versions and we're already back to a 30fps world unless you have a VRR display. You know what we're going to get with a new round of "Pro" consoles? A year or two of cross-cross-gen development where the games manage to perform at 60fps on the "Pro" console, but then they'll jack up the visual bells and whistles and we'll be back to 30fps with dynamic resolution scaling and people asking for the next-gen of consoles, somehow thinking that'll fix the issues.

What's the definition of insanity again?

Oh come on, it's fun! I personally can't wait for PS5 Pro users to be begging for PS6, and PS6 users to be begging for PS6 Pro, and so on. It's endlessly hilarious. They always think the next box will satisfy. It never does.

 

[Vick]

Why is the PS5 so persecuted? I see it spouted so often, almost every DF thread actually. I wonder what DF must have against the PS5, it's very bizzare if so, please inform me Gaffers!

It's very bizarre indeed. And kind of disgusting, but sadly not far from the usual par for the course for a conclomerate paying people to pretend they're fans online.

HeisenbergFX4 shared proof verified by Mods of Microsoft bribing Digital Foundry staff (except for John, who is supposedly "the least likely to be swayed").
Not surprising many would rather mock fellow gamers from the other side than being upset by the situation though.

 

[Gaiff]

It's very bizarre indeed. And kind of disgusting, but sadly not far from the usual par for the course for a conclomerate paying people to pretend they're fans online.

HeisenbergFX4 shared proof verified by Mods of Microsoft bribing Digital Foundry staff (except for John, who is supposedly "the least likely to be swayed").
Not surprising many would rather mock fellow gamers from the other side than being upset by the situation though.

I remember that thing about Alex being in an anti-PS5 Discord server or something lol. Nothing about bribes though. I do know that Microsoft sponsored DF a few times. As did NVIDIA.

 

[Vick]

I remember that thing about Alex being in an anti-PS5 Discord server or something lol. Nothing about bribes though. I do know that Microsoft sponsored DF a few times. As did NVIDIA.

As did Sony, many times.

 

[Fbh]

Shame they couldn't get the performance mode to at least 1080p.
Otherwise seems decent.

The usual suspects arguing that this means we need yet another round of Pro consoles make me laugh. These consoles (except the Series S) are, in effect, "Pro" version of the last gen "Pro" versions and we're already back to a 30fps world unless you have a VRR display. You know what we're going to get with a new round of "Pro" consoles? A year or two of cross-cross-gen development where the games manage to perform at 60fps on the "Pro" console, but then they'll jack up the visual bells and whistles and we'll be back to 30fps with dynamic resolution scaling and people asking for the next-gen of consoles, somehow thinking that'll fix the issues.

What's the definition of insanity again?

I mean yeah, if people wan to see graphical improvements while still getting decent resolutions at 60fps they'll have to periodically upgrade their hardware, specially at this price range.
Also if the Ps5 pro is a decent enough upgrade it should be good for the rest of the gen, because it will all be "cross gen" with the base Ps5. There's no precedent that devs will drop the base Ps5 and develop games exclusively for the Ps5 pro (I'd honestly be dumb to just make a game for a fraction of the Ps5 install base).

 

[Senua]

HeisenbergFX4 shared proof verified by Mods of Microsoft bribing Digital Foundry staff (except for John, who is supposedly "the least likely to be swayed").
Not surprising many would rather mock fellow gamers from the other side than being upset by the situation though.

Now this I gota see

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

You're right - Pro consoles might make it all the way to 1500p instead of 800p

You seem like you are taking a dig at pro consoles, but you are actually making a point. No, making THE point of what PRO consoles are supposed to do.

You see that fidelity mode, which sits at 1200p-1800p, then gets reconstructed to 4K@30fps? On a PS5pro, it would sit at 1440p-1800p, get reconstructed to 4K but this time, at 60fps, And then the performance mode, would sit at 1080p, reconstructed to 4K, and run at over 100fps.

That is the whole point of what a PS5pro would do. And if you know anything about reconstruction, then you know that when working with a higher base rez, and a higher framerate, then the resulting IQ is significantly better and very close (and times even better) to native 4K.

 

[Neo_game]

Just had a quick look at the article and they have not given much info. My guess is Pro should can run this game at 1440P 40fps at least. Not sure why dev did not consider that if 30fps seems stable. 1080P 40fps was probably possible on PS5 and SX.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

There's a good thread over on X from the Tech Director at Massive Entertainment on how they tackled perf on console:

 

[Quixz]

Someone do the summary please, I'm indisposed at the moment.

You had enough time to send this message..

 

[adamsapple]

You had enough time to send this message..

Posting from the shitter ain't the same thing as watching and transcribing a 20 min video

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Why do they have to compare

As did Sony, many times.

And that's the whole bigger issue with DF. They are easily bought. I never thought that they were pro one console over another. It's always been clear tho they lack integrity in general. They are pro developer/publisher in the sense that they often heap too much praise in general while not coming down hard on a dev when the dev does shoddy work. John is actually the worst of the group in this regard.

 

[NEbeast]

The usual suspects arguing that this means we need yet another round of Pro consoles make me laugh. These consoles (except the Series S) are, in effect, "Pro" version of the last gen "Pro" versions and we're already back to a 30fps world unless you have a VRR display. You know what we're going to get with a new round of "Pro" consoles? A year or two of cross-cross-gen development where the games manage to perform at 60fps on the "Pro" console, but then they'll jack up the visual bells and whistles and we'll be back to 30fps with dynamic resolution scaling and people asking for the next-gen of consoles, somehow thinking that'll fix the issues.

What's the definition of insanity again?

"The usual suspects". What the fuck are you talking about? Back to 30 fps? You're talking absolute bollocks. There is no need to piss your pants, you can happily play on your current box of choice. Put the toys back in the pram.

 

[daninthemix]

You seem like you are taking a dig at pro consoles, but you are actually making a point. No, making THE point of what PRO consoles are supposed to do.

You see that fidelity mode, which sits at 1200p-1800p, then gets reconstructed to 4K@30fps? On a PS5pro, it would sit at 1440p-1800p, get reconstructed to 4K but this time, at 60fps, And then the performance mode, would sit at 1080p, reconstructed to 4K, and run at over 100fps.

That is the whole point of what a PS5pro would do. And if you know anything about reconstruction, then you know that when working with a higher base rez, and a higher framerate, then the resulting IQ is significantly better and very close (and times even better) to native 4K.

Oh I know - actually 1440p internal is fine. I use DLSS Quality which is just that.

 

[King Dazzar]

Unacceptable 60fps mode for me. Glad I never bought it and I wont even touch this on a sale now. Even if you get past the frankly shite unstable frame rate variance, you're looking at an awfully low res upscale. And that's before we even get to the debate about the gameplay itself. I hope they do better for FC7.

 

[DenchDeckard]

They need to fix the xbox fsr2 issue and hotcbong then it will be the best version but until then, it's a win to ps5.

 

[Vergil1992]

They need to fix the xbox fsr2 issue and hotcbong then it will be the best version but until then, it's a win to ps5.

I don't think there is any absolute victory here. Xbox has additional problems, such as additional FSR artifacts (on static objects and with the camera still lol) and spot stuttering, but we also can't forget that DF says that PS5 renders at a lower resolution in quality mode "clearly". ". They also leave the door open for there to also be resolution differences in performance mode, but it has not been as clear to them as in quality mode.

But as a summary, a game with the same graphics and performance settings, which on a platform has a higher resolution but very occasional stuttering and seems to have more artifacts due to a bug... I think it is a matter of user preferences. Personally, in this game I wouldn't care about the platform, honestly. When it comes down to it, I think they are differences that are impossible to see without having both systems side by side, and even then you would probably need to be very close or zoom in, both because of the artifacts and because of the PS5's resolution deficit.

Right now I think it could be considered a technical tie. It would be good to know how much difference in resolution there really is, because it is not the same that in XSX it works at a 5-10% higher resolution than at 15-20%. If the problem is resolved on Xbox, the victory would be for Xbox. Right now, I think it's more of a matter of personal choice. However, Xbox problems are usually solved, but resolution differences rarely change. It is a point that must be taken into account. It is much more likely that if the game is followed up, the Xbox problems will be fixed, but the resolution difference will not.

I would like to see VG Tech's analysis, the resolution data is probably much more accurate.

 

[playsaves3]

You seem like you are taking a dig at pro consoles, but you are actually making a point. No, making THE point of what PRO consoles are supposed to do.

You see that fidelity mode, which sits at 1200p-1800p, then gets reconstructed to 4K@30fps? On a PS5pro, it would sit at 1440p-1800p, get reconstructed to 4K but this time, at 60fps, And then the performance mode, would sit at 1080p, reconstructed to 4K, and run at over 100fps.

That is the whole point of what a PS5pro would do. And if you know anything about reconstruction, then you know that when working with a higher base rez, and a higher framerate, then the resulting IQ is significantly better and very close (and times even better) to native 4K.

I actually think if the pro has the specs I’m hoping for it could do a straight 1800p 60 (possibly introduce the rt shadows from the pc cause of the much better rt hardware) and you have something good.

 

[playsaves3]

Just had a quick look at the article and they have not given much info. My guess is Pro should can run this game at 1440P 40fps at least. Not sure why dev did not consider that if 30fps seems stable. 1080P 40fps was probably possible on PS5 and SX.

I think this is super conservative especially considering this is pushing rt where the pro is focusing on i expect at least 1440p 60 possibly 1800p 60

 

[Physiognomonics]

They need to fix the xbox fsr2 issue and hotcbong then it will be the best version but until then, it's a win to ps5.

FSR2 is not in issue, it's just being used more aggressively with a more 'performance' setting than on PS5. Setting is even worse on XSS.

 

[SKYF@ll]

Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora - the big developer tech interview​

Digital Foundry's Alex Battaglia interviews Massive's Nikolay Stefanov and Oleksandr Koshlo about Avatar: Frontiers of …

www.eurogamer.net

"We use native hardware features like primitive shading and mesh shading to then render them on screen." *consoles
"We decided against that at some point, as the technology is fresh and there's a certain challenge in supporting the variety of GPUs and hardware available on PC."
"So for now, we went with the simpler path of fully supporting it first on consoles."

 

[Vergil1992]

FSR2 is not in issue, it's just being used more aggressively with a more 'performance' setting than on PS5. Setting is even worse on XSS.

I do not think it's that. If it were a more aggressive FSR, the pixel count would be lower. But DF says the opposite, the internal resolution is usually higher on XSX in quality mode and probably in performance mode as well. The problem persists on Xbox in both performance mode and quality mode, and without a doubt in quality mode its resolution will be much higher than that of the PS5 in performance mode, which also does not have this problem. The PS5 version in performance mode looks much blurrier than the XSX in quality mode and clearly has a lower resolution, however, it is free of these object artifacts. If in performance mode the XSX had those artifacts and the PS5 (in the same mode) did not, I might consider that your point is correct. But the moment the problem persists on Xbox in quality mode (and PS5 does not have it in its performance mode) for me your point is completely discarded. For that, the XSX would have to have a lower internal resolution in quality mode than the PS5 in performance mode. And we both know that's not the case here.

Furthermore, such erratic behavior of artifacts on inanimate objects is not at all common in FSR. I think it's just a bug in the implementation.

 

[Jose92]

This game is the definition of overhyped graphics, to me it looks average at best. Yes the foliage is interactable and very dense but everything else looks average.

 

[Denton]

This game is the definition of overhyped graphics, to me it looks average at best. Yes the foliage is interactable and very dense but everything else looks average.

Lighting RTGI looks great as well, as do weather effects. Being able to fly above the clouds during thunderstorm and watching the clouds from above is cool.
I hate some aspects of this game (terrible writing and copypaste design everywhere) but graphics sure ain't one of them.

 

[Thirty7ven]

The praise for the game is so funny to me, sure some of the foliage shots look amazing, but that's it.

 

[DenchDeckard]

The praise for the game is so funny to me, sure some of the foliage shots look amazing, but that's it.

Supposedly it looks insane on pc maxed out.

I'll find out over Xmas once I redeem my free code.

 

[SlimySnake]

The praise for the game is so funny to me, sure some of the foliage shots look amazing, but that's it.

Nah, everything about the game looks amazing.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

I'm pleasantly surprised how good this game looks on my 3060 Ti even on my LG C2.

The praise for the game is so funny to me, sure some of the foliage shots look amazing, but that's it.

Really? This looks better then the vast majority of games.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I'm pleasantly surprised how good this game looks on my 3060 Ti even on my LG C2.


Really? This looks better then the vast majority of games.

Every time characters are up close it looks average.

 

[Denton]

Every time characters are up close it looks average.

they're fucking smurfs, what do you expect

 

[Cacadookie]

The type of biomes I dreamed of for Halo Infinite. Keep on dreaming on.

 

[Darsxx82]

Sorry for the bump.

But I find it interesting because of what it could mean.

A patch for Avatar is released tomorrow with quite a few improvements.

The main one is the implementation of FSR 3 on both PC and consoles. Fixes artifact issues on XSeries. It's the first time on console I think.

And the inclusion of a new option to calibrate a new type of Motion Blur that will also be included in performance mode. Motion aiming on DS and reduce popping.

In addition, many bugs and general refinements are fixed.

Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora - Title Update 3 & 3.1

Title Update 3 will be deployed February 29th at 9 AM UTC. Read a detailed list of fixes and adjustments that are coming with this patch.

www.ubisoft.com

• [All Platforms]Improved AMD FidelityFX™ Super Resolution 3 (FSR3) artefacts
  • [PC/PS5]Motion Aiming with the DualSense controller.
  • [Xbox Series S/X] Improved FSR3 artefacts/flickers.
  • [Xbox Series S/X, PS5] Added a motion blur option for the 'Performance' graphics mode

 

[JackMcGunns]

Series S haters have exited the thread.

 

[Mr Moose]

Series S haters have exited the thread.

Did it become the best version?

Sorry for the bump.

But I find it interesting because of what it could mean.

A patch for Avatar is released tomorrow with quite a few improvements.

The main one is the implementation of FSR 3 on both PC and consoles. Fixes artifact issues on XSeries. It's the first time on console I think.

And the inclusion of a new option to calibrate a new type of Motion Blur that will also be included in performance mode. Motion aiming on DS and reduce popping.

In addition, many bugs and general refinements are fixed.

Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora - Title Update 3 & 3.1

Title Update 3 will be deployed February 29th at 9 AM UTC. Read a detailed list of fixes and adjustments that are coming with this patch.

www.ubisoft.com

• [All Platforms]Improved AMD FidelityFX™ Super Resolution 3 (FSR3) artefacts
  • [PC/PS5]Motion Aiming with the DualSense controller.
  • [Xbox Series S/X] Improved FSR3 artefacts/flickers.
  • [Xbox Series S/X, PS5] Added a motion blur option for the 'Performance' graphics mode

Did it use FSR 3 before? It was 2 before right?

 

[Darsxx82]

Did it become the best version?
Did it use FSR 3 before? It was 2 before right?

Yes, at least according to Alex who also interviewed developers....

The fact is that it is curious and I don't think it is a coincidence..... A patch for ROBOCOP has just been released and it adds an "AMD FRAME GENERATION" toggle on consoles.....

(It has also solved the "bug" of ground textures in XSX and raised the resolution in quality mode although I don't know if this already happened in another previous patch)

Is it a sign that games with FSR 3 and frame gen in consoles are starting to come out?

 

[adamsapple]

huh? they added FSR3 to the console version? Interesting. Any performance comparison videos online?

 

[Darsxx82]

huh? they added FSR3 to the console version? Interesting. Any performance comparison videos online?

Patch is for tomorrow.

 

[Mr Moose]

Patch is for tomorrow.

I am hoping games that used FSR 1 get updated.
Doesn't Forspoken, FFXVI and Ghostwire use that?

 

[Darsxx82]

I am hoping games that used FSR 1 get updated.
Doesn't Forspoken, FFXVI and Ghostwire use that?

Yes, and Tekken 8 also??
It is clear that everything depends on the willingness of each Studio to update. But if FSR3 has been possible in a game like Avatar, I don't think there will be a problem in other games.

From here, the interesting thing would be an analysis of DF to draw conclusions about its results on consoles.

 

[adamsapple]

Patch is for tomorrow.

Interesting.

The Immortals of Aveum devs were talking about adding FSR3 to console months ago, but I guess half the team being gutted put that on the backburner. It'll be interesting to see this developers implementation.

 

[JimboJones]

I think it's a branding issue, unless they refer specifically to FSR 3 Frame Generation it's probably just talking about the image reconstruction.

 

[Zuzu]

Lighting RTGI looks great as well, as do weather effects. Being able to fly above the clouds during thunderstorm and watching the clouds from above is cool.
I hate some aspects of this game (terrible writing and copypaste design everywhere) but graphics sure ain't one of them.

Those are beautiful graphics. Wow...

 

[Rockman33]

I dont find the gameplay very fun unfortunately as I really wanted to like it more. But god damn does the game look incredible. The IQ at 60 fps for this type of game is probably one of the best there is.

 

[Zathalus]

Sorry for the bump.

But I find it interesting because of what it could mean.

A patch for Avatar is released tomorrow with quite a few improvements.

The main one is the implementation of FSR 3 on both PC and consoles. Fixes artifact issues on XSeries. It's the first time on console I think.

And the inclusion of a new option to calibrate a new type of Motion Blur that will also be included in performance mode. Motion aiming on DS and reduce popping.

In addition, many bugs and general refinements are fixed.

Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora - Title Update 3 & 3.1

Title Update 3 will be deployed February 29th at 9 AM UTC. Read a detailed list of fixes and adjustments that are coming with this patch.

www.ubisoft.com

• [All Platforms]Improved AMD FidelityFX™ Super Resolution 3 (FSR3) artefacts
  • [PC/PS5]Motion Aiming with the DualSense controller.
  • [Xbox Series S/X] Improved FSR3 artefacts/flickers.
  • [Xbox Series S/X, PS5] Added a motion blur option for the 'Performance' graphics mode

I think the current implementation was called FSR3 already. The console versions just don't use frame generation. Like you can have DLSS 3 and not have frame generation enabled either.