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[8BiTw0LF]

Don't bite the hand that feeds you

 

[GHG]

You're right, the reasonable answer is that there must be a global cabal of hired enforcers out there who were paid fortunes to make sure Starfield is seen in a positive light.

That's why the two largest gaming publications in the world gave it a 7.

Not sure what you're talking about.

When I said "game" I was NOT about Starfield at all. It is about other, unrelated games. You took this to mean Starfield but it is absolutely NOT related to Starfield.

Spoiler

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Fact is, there is mod that enables both dlss2 and dlss3 aka frame generation in starfield, so it wasnt some rocket science and matter of budget to implement it, just lack of will, and guess what, that lack of will had to came from somewhere, and it defo didnt come from the dev team since they know very well nvidia has 80% of marketshare atm, so lets just use logic, like famous detective did



Then the answer is pretty clear who didnt want dlss2/3 in starfield, and for what reasons, nuff said.
Here quick comparision native vs dlss2 vs dlss3, gainz are immense

Seriously, it should be obvious to anybody with half a brain that this is what’s going on. How stupid do you have to be in order to believe that Bethesda just independently decided to exclude DLSS and that it wasn’t due to whatever marketing cross-promotion deal they have with AMD?

 

[Denton]

So in a direct talking about Starfield, he talked about DLSS not being implemented because of agreements with AMD, but it has nothing to do with Starfield ?

I reiterate, the dude is shitting his pants (like he was during covid, posting everyday about his fear to die of Covid and his anxiety about it).

Do you have like, zero awareness of a thing called nuance?
You can have a podcast about a topic, and in that podcast, talk about things that are indirectly related to said topic, while not being exactly about that topic.

 

[poppabk]

'Does not and will not and never has....'

"He admits that — in general......

But Azor says that — in general ....

Do none of you know how to read bullshit PR?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

AMD sucks TBH, they aren't a real competitor to Nvidia, all they do is hold PC gaming back by denying the majority of PC gamers access to technology their Nvidia cards support

 

[SenkiDala]

Do you have like, zero awareness of a thing called nuance?
You can have a podcast about a topic, and in that podcast, talk about things that are indirectly related to said topic, while not being exactly about that topic.

Well then when you post on a social network about it, on your own name, as a professional, you bring some context and explain what you're talking about. It's not like he isn't used to post online like a 70s sitcom star who's starting internet, he's using those tools all day long.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Fact is, there is mod that enables both dlss2 and dlss3 aka frame generation in starfield, so it wasnt some rocket science and matter of budget to implement it, just lack of will, and guess what, that lack of will had to came from somewhere, and it defo didnt come from the dev team since they know very well nvidia has 80% of marketshare atm, so lets just use logic, like famous detective did



Then the answer is pretty clear who didnt want dlss2/3 in starfield, and for what reasons, nuff said.
Here quick comparision native vs dlss2 vs dlss3, gainz are immense

Looks like puredark is getting my 5 bucks

 

[rsouzadk]

AMD sucks at gpus and locks better vfx tech to be used by gpus, what a surprise.

 

[SmokedMeat]

AMD sucks TBH, they aren't a real competitor to Nvidia, all they do is hold PC gaming back by denying the majority of PC gamers access to technology their Nvidia cards support

AMD’s certainly in the wrong, but claiming they’re holding PC back, while defending Nvidia who makes everything proprietary to their cards only is a joke.

Nvidia sucks just as much.

 

[unclbenn]

I get that this is a shitty practice but we know GPU companies have been doing this since they started to bundle games with their cards. What's so shocking about this partnership? Is it because alot of people with Nvidia GPUs are butthurt because they can't take an L?

 

[Denton]

Well then when you post on a social network about it, on your own name, as a professional, you bring some context and explain what you're talking about. It's not like he isn't used to post online like a 70s sitcom star who's starting internet, he's using those tools all day long.

...and that is exactly what he did after he realized his post was being misconstrued

 

[acm2000]

dlss3 frame generation? just turn on motion smoothing on your tv, job done.

/s

although not really, its basically doing the same thing but using AI

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I heard Phil knocked on his door before he deleted the tweet

 

[BennyBlanco]

MS just keeps stepping on rakes. The PC version will likely sell the most because of gamepass. Let’s take a small pile of money from a GPU manufacturer with like 4% market share to actively make our game shittier. How much could this deal possibly be worth?

 

[SlimySnake]

I heard Phil knocked on his door before he deleted the tweet

i like how he was hanging out with both Phil and Todd Howard and didnt bother to ask them a simple question like, 'hey you had $80 billion to spend on cod and bethesda, why did you need to beg AMD for a sponsorship?'

 

[bender]

i like how he was hanging out with both Phil and Todd Howard and didnt bother to ask them a simple question like, 'hey you had $80 billion to spend on cod and bethesda, why did you need to beg AMD for a sponsorship?'

Maybe that question answers itself.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I get that this is a shitty practice but we know GPU companies have been doing this since they started to bundle games with their cards. What's so shocking about this partnership? Is it because alot of people with Nvidia GPUs are butthurt because they can't take an L?

Have they? There have been plenty of times when AMD/Nvidia paid devs to support some exclusive feature of theirs. I don’t know of any time where they paid to NOT include a competitor’s tech.

 

[acm2000]

MS just keeps stepping on rakes. The PC version will likely sell the most because of gamepass. Let’s take a small pile of money from a GPU manufacturer with like 4% market share to actively make our game shittier. How much could this deal possibly be worth?

and yet millions of people are playing the premium edition quite happily already, zero fucks given about what a vocal minority are crying over.

 

[Elysium44]

I get that this is a shitty practice but we know GPU companies have been doing this since they started to bundle games with their cards. What's so shocking about this partnership? Is it because alot of people with Nvidia GPUs are butthurt because they can't take an L?

The vast majority of gamers have nvidia GPUs, and the game runs much worse on them than it ought to. Attacking them for being unhappy sounds like victim blaming. It's completely self-defeating from Bethesda / Microsoft to alienate the majority of the PC market.

 

[BennyBlanco]

and yet millions of people are playing the premium edition quite happily already, zero fucks given about what a vocal minority are crying over.

I am also playing and enjoying Starfield. And it runs fine on my PC. The people getting the shaft are the people on 2080s, etc who could be playing this with much better framerates and arbitrarily can’t because of a dumb business deal. So either wait for a DLSS patch that we don’t even know will ever come, or pay for a mod (LOL).

 

[acm2000]

I am also playing and enjoying Starfield. And it runs fine on my PC. The people getting the shaft are the people on 2080s, etc who could be playing this with much better framerates and arbitrarily can’t because of a dumb business deal. So either wait for a DLSS patch that we don’t even know will ever come, or pay for a mod (LOL).

dlss 2 is free, 3 just adds fake frames

 

[Reallink]

I was reliably informed by internet experts on the internet that AMD does not do this, and that they just decided to let this negative PR shitstorm circulate for 2 months as they coached a mouthpiece on how to doublespeak his way around this specific question and lie by omission. Now I'm going to post that AMD sponsorship chart where the only games that have DLSS are the ones under a Sony exclusivity contract. Look how smart I am.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I am also playing and enjoying Starfield. And it runs fine on my PC. The people getting the shaft are the people on 2080s, etc who could be playing this with much better framerates and arbitrarily can’t because of a dumb business deal. So either wait for a DLSS patch that we don’t even know will ever come, or pay for a mod (LOL).

To be fair the DLSS 2.0 mod is free.

But yeah fuck amd.

 

[unclbenn]

The vast majority of gamers have nvidia GPUs, and the game runs much worse on them than it ought to. Attacking them for being unhappy sounds like victim blaming. It's completely self-defeating from Bethesda / Microsoft to alienate the majority of the PC market.

Well what about games that support dlss but not fsr? Why does that exist?

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Fact is, there is mod that enables both dlss2 and dlss3 aka frame generation in starfield, so it wasnt some rocket science and matter of budget to implement it, just lack of will, and guess what, that lack of will had to came from somewhere, and it defo didnt come from the dev team since they know very well nvidia has 80% of marketshare atm, so lets just use logic, like famous detective did



Then the answer is pretty clear who didnt want dlss2/3 in starfield, and for what reasons, nuff said.
Here quick comparision native vs dlss2 vs dlss3, gainz are immense

Feck. I need DLSS on my 3080

 

[hinch7]

It was obvious when games like Godfall and other AMD sponsored titles didn't include it and still exclude it to this day. Godfall iirc was used a marketing push for FSR.

Other titles to push Fidelity FX were (source Windows Central)

• The Riftbreaker
• Terminator: Resistance
• Kingshunt
• Evil Genius 2: World Domination
• 22 Racing Series
• Anno 1800

Wouldn't be surprised if most of the above blocked DLSS with a deal. Pretty crappy move tbh. I mean.. I wouldn't but it past them to block Starfield from DLSS and then AMD turned around and changed it, after people started kicking up a fuss online.

 

[violence]

....we need AMD.. *Looks away*

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

AMD!

and MS

 

[ZehDon]

If FSR2 was actually worthwhile, I probably wouldn't complain all that much about exclusivity deals. But FSR2 looks like trash in motion in every game I've tried it on, while DLSS2 looks fantastic every time. Being restricted to a worse solution because AMD can't make better hardware and solutions is some old-hat 90s Microsoft anti-consumer bullshit that just makes me dislike AMD.

 

[Buggy Loop]

AMD’s certainly in the wrong, but claiming they’re holding PC back, while defending Nvidia who makes everything proprietary to their cards only is a joke.

Nvidia sucks just as much.

I can't imagine what the GPU tech world would be today without Nvidia pushing hard. Can you? AMD is reactionary, far cry from early ATI, which to remind peoples, they invented freaking tessellation in 2001, only to complain Nvidia was better at it later on when AMD purchased them.

I was ATI / AMD for 20 years or so. Their attitude became that of a loser and it pissed me off. All this gameworks drama, i was on AMD side during all that and it still convinced me to go Pascal in 2016. Because AMD has only AMD to blame in all this. I already detailed a shitload of it in previous threads so i'm not going there, but they have a shit attitude. They used to have an engineer in the top 100 studios in mid 2000's, they had mantle to leverage console→PC ports with little to no man hours. They shit the bed. They fired most of the team. They saw microsoft react to DX12 and they just didn't leverage any advantage of all this development. They basically let Nvidia run away with DX11 gameworks, freely.

Nvidia's not sitting on their laurels like Intel did with market share domination, they continue to pour in HUGE R&D budgets and they're actually getting ahead at a speedier rate than everyone anticipated with the the likes of Cyberpunk 2077 path tracing.

So it's "proprietary", but all of it is implemented in games via the hardware agnostic API. So it's on the supplier side to figure out what to do with these API calls. Basically a compiler that is and was present for both vendors since the dawn of GPU graphics. It's just that never in GPU history has features started to make games look so differently between vendors, ever. Upscaler differences are cute comparisons and i can let it slip if somebody doesn't spot the difference. But we're getting into the denoisers now and totally different approaches with the ray reconstruction, NOW games don't even look like they came from the same pipeline. I can't recall a time in my >25 years owning GPUs where this happened for a same API.

But let's go for the idea, what would even happen that Nvidia makes DLSS all GPU? They're tailored to their hardware tensor cores and pipeline. All indications would be that they would have to downgrade the quality to satisfy everyone, just like AMD and Intel did. Why do we aim for the bottom of the barrel? That's not how to advance.

What I'm getting it is that, Nvidia has actually raised up their market share by proprietary tech that they've invested millions in. Why wouldn't they? I can't think of any business model where companies openly share secrets for shit and giggles. We're not talking about some lone dude making a .zip archiver open source here.

Wouldn't AMD benefit from actually making FSR the best they can on their cards, exclusively? Because what's the business case here for FSR anyway? Its biggest GPU market is not even AMD, it's Nvidia GTX cards, and while that makes a bunch of peoples happy that they don't have to upgrade their 1060 to play Starfield at FSR ultra performance at 1080p, a pixel soup basically, they're not upgrading, are they buying AMD if they upgrade? Seems not, market share keeps shrinking. So I'm dumbfounded at the business case of FSR for every cards.

It's "open source"! I tell ya what, open source in the software business is the "I'm vegan" level of annoying. Nobody gives a fuck, nobody. Where are the FSR branching paths from all the interest in FSR code? It's nowhere. We're asking devs that barely make it to the finish line with a working product on PC, that they have their games fixed within 24-48 hours by script kiddies, to actually open the source code and understand what's going on in these upscalers? Doesn't seem to happen. I don't believe it. Devs use the SDK, they use the UE plugin, voila. They have no interest of opening that shit box.

I really don't think the "good guy" AMD with open source bullcrap is working. It's just not, the numbers don't lie. Their marketshare is evaporating.

Should we be pissed that Microsoft didn't think of making a default ML upscaler in DX12? Probably actually. This is the result. The denoisers, upscalers, ML are basically on vendor's shoulders. We were supposed to move away from DX11 like GPU vendor attachments, leave everything to devs and here we are again, back to square one.

 

[lmimmfn]

AMD advancing PC gaming.....Oh wait.

AMD the gfx equivalent of Epic Game Store

 

[shamoomoo]

I can't imagine what the GPU tech world would be today without Nvidia pushing hard. Can you? AMD is reactionary, far cry from early ATI, which to remind peoples, they invented freaking tessellation in 2001, only to complain Nvidia was better at it later on when AMD purchased them.

I was ATI / AMD for 20 years or so. Their attitude became that of a loser and it pissed me off. All this gameworks drama, i was on AMD side during all that and it still convinced me to go Pascal in 2016. Because AMD has only AMD to blame in all this. I already detailed a shitload of it in previous threads so i'm not going there, but they have a shit attitude. They used to have an engineer in the top 100 studios in mid 2000's, they had mantle to leverage console→PC ports with little to no man hours. They shit the bed. They fired most of the team. They saw microsoft react to DX12 and they just didn't leverage any advantage of all this development. They basically let Nvidia run away with DX11 gameworks, freely.

Nvidia's not sitting on their laurels like Intel did with market share domination, they continue to pour in HUGE R&D budgets and they're actually getting ahead at a speedier rate than everyone anticipated with the the likes of Cyberpunk 2077 path tracing.

So it's "proprietary", but all of it is implemented in games via the hardware agnostic API. So it's on the supplier side to figure out what to do with these API calls. Basically a compiler that is and was present for both vendors since the dawn of GPU graphics. It's just that never in GPU history has features started to make games look so differently between vendors, ever. Upscaler differences are cute comparisons and i can let it slip if somebody doesn't spot the difference. But we're getting into the denoisers now and totally different approaches with the ray reconstruction, NOW games don't even look like they came from the same pipeline. I can't recall a time in my >25 years owning GPUs where this happened for a same API.

But let's go for the idea, what would even happen that Nvidia makes DLSS all GPU? They're tailored to their hardware tensor cores and pipeline. All indications would be that they would have to downgrade the quality to satisfy everyone, just like AMD and Intel did. Why do we aim for the bottom of the barrel? That's not how to advance.

What I'm getting it is that, Nvidia has actually raised up their market share by proprietary tech that they've invested millions in. Why wouldn't they? I can't think of any business model where companies openly share secrets for shit and giggles. We're not talking about some lone dude making a .zip archiver open source here.

Wouldn't AMD benefit from actually making FSR the best they can on their cards, exclusively? Because what's the business case here for FSR anyway? Its biggest GPU market is not even AMD, it's Nvidia GTX cards, and while that makes a bunch of peoples happy that they don't have to upgrade their 1060 to play Starfield at FSR ultra performance at 1080p, a pixel soup basically, they're not upgrading, are they buying AMD if they upgrade? Seems not, market share keeps shrinking. So I'm dumbfounded at the business case of FSR for every cards.

It's "open source"! I tell ya what, open source in the software business is the "I'm vegan" level of annoying. Nobody gives a fuck, nobody. Where are the FSR branching paths from all the interest in FSR code? It's nowhere. We're asking devs that barely make it to the finish line with a working product on PC, that they have their games fixed within 24-48 hours by script kiddies, to actually open the source code and understand what's going on in these upscalers? Doesn't seem to happen. I don't believe it. Devs use the SDK, they use the UE plugin, voila. They have no interest of opening that shit box.

I really don't think the "good guy" AMD with open source bullcrap is working. It's just not, the numbers don't lie. Their marketshare is evaporating.

Should we be pissed that Microsoft didn't think of making a default ML upscaler in DX12? Probably actually. This is the result. The denoisers, upscalers, ML are basically on vendor's shoulders. We were supposed to move away from DX11 like GPU vendor attachments, leave everything to devs and here we are again, back to square one.

Ray tracing existed before Nvidia put an asic on their GPUs to make hybrid ray tracing practical. DLSS could've been like FSR on previous Gen GPUs and could've been accelerate with tensor cores to improve quality like DLSS now. Also,it wasn't until Turing where there was a significant departure on GPUs being used differently in gaming, everything else was just iterative.

 

[StereoVsn]

He didn't say it isn't about Starfield either, I guess he either doesn't know or doesn't want to say. He deleted the original tweet so fast he must have been worried about the consequences.

Also:




He seems a bit too easily pleased that it's all good because we can download a third party mod to make the game work well, surely a AAA game years in development from a two trillion dollar company ought to run well by default, not needing mods which the vast majority of people will never think or know how to use?

Yep, it's BS. Official support should be demanded. This is a ridiculous situation when you have to rely on 3ed party mods for basic functionality.

Plus, DLSS 3 version will be on a paid sub.

 

[Rea]

If AMD can block Dlss on other games why not for Starfield?
It really obvious.
Wtf

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Honestly, who gives a shit about Starfield in this case when the point is about games in general being blocked in a state where DLSS is present due to creative choices or these stupid back door deals.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

“Had to remove it due to sponsorship” doesn’t necessarily mean “ordered to remove it by AMD”.

It could very easily go like this: AMD makes a deal with a publisher to pay then $x,000 if phone-home metrics report >50/75/90/whatever% of users are running the game with FSR. The easiest way to guarantee this is by not having DLSS, the alternative being running a crippled implementation of DLSS that would get them strung up on social media. Then, when devs try to implement DLSS, publishers bosses come along and say “nah, get rid of that.”

At least, that’s the way I’d run it if I were AMD and wanted to keep my hands relatively clean. They are not making any demands, but the outcome is still the same while AMD remains free to say “yes, money changes hands, but there’s nothing stopping them from….” blah, blah, blah.

 

[Elysium44]

Well what about games that support dlss but not fsr? Why does that exist?

We know what isn't the reason: nvidia have categorically said it isn't because of them.

 

[BouncyFrag]

I have no idea what any of this means.

 

[phaedrus]

I have no idea what any of this means.

Just the usual PCMasterrace GPUcard warring.

 

[Barakov]

Just the usual PCMasterrace GPUcard warring.

 

[Leonidas]

So its true. I've long suspected this was the case.

Shame on AMD for holding back PC gaming

 

[skneogaf]

Resident evil 4 remake

 

[dEvAnGeL]

Fact is, there is mod that enables both dlss2 and dlss3 aka frame generation in starfield, so it wasnt some rocket science and matter of budget to implement it, just lack of will, and guess what, that lack of will had to came from somewhere, and it defo didnt come from the dev team since they know very well nvidia has 80% of marketshare atm, so lets just use logic, like famous detective did



Then the answer is pretty clear who didnt want dlss2/3 in starfield, and for what reasons, nuff said.
Here quick comparision native vs dlss2 vs dlss3, gainz are immense

Shouldnt render resolution scale be at 100% for it to be native? In the video it is lowered to 67%.

 

[PeteBull]

Shouldnt render resolution scale be at 100% for it to be native? In the video it is lowered to 67%.

The 67% is what fsr/dlss scales from, to 4k, so actual native is 1440p there, with 4k native, at current gimped nvidia drivers for their gpu(visibly below 7900xtx, just few % above 750$ 7900xt lol), i think 4090 would be around 50fps in that area in true native 4k, 67% scaling on both axis is 1440p.

Here HU did gpu benchmarks so u can see current state of performance timestamped for 1440p ultra, right after u got 4k ultra

 

[supernova8]

-John makes a post on X about DLSS(I assume)
-Someone makes a response about him being a journalist and possible false information
-John clarifies that he's not really an investigative journalist and instead just heard it from a few devs
-John deletes original post(?)
-Somehow, people interpret this as he is talking about Starfield(possibly due to poor wording)
-John says this isn't even about Starfield
-People think MS got to him because of this mix up.

If he has received information from developers (that he has vetted and knows they're aren't imposters) who agreed to provide said information on the condition of anonymity then the whole "tell us your sources or it didn't happen" is silly anyway. Journalists rarely reveal their sources otherwise they wouldn't have sources for very long.

All you can really do is take note of what he's saying and then compare it with whatever comes out as the truth.

 

[supernova8]

Nvidia locking a lot of features over the years from AMD users cause they want.

AMD locking Nvidia DLSS from some game.

Bonus:

True but Nvidia has already made it clear you need an Nvidia card (RTX for DLSS 2.. RTX 4000 for DLSS3) for their technologies, whereas AMD seems to be locking DLSS out of games and then either denying it or being super shady with their PR responses.

 

[Kamina]

I have no idea what any of this means.

Many game not run well.
Many Game-makers no have access to big juju to make game run well.
Wizards who make big juju promise use only to other game-makers.

 

[unclbenn]

Many game not run well.
Many Game-makers no have access to big juju to make game run well.
Wizards who make big juju promise use only to other game-makers.

Unga bunga