He's flip-flopped on literally everything EXCEPT climate change. Shit is unbelievably infuriating. The one fucking thing he won't suddenly U-turn on is an existential threat.
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Donald Trump is officially the only world leader that denies climate change science
- Thread starter Joe
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He's flip-flopped on literally everything EXCEPT climate change. Shit is unbelievably infuriating. The one fucking thing he won't suddenly U-turn on is an existential threat.
Dude it's so fucked over here. Trump basically ran a campaign of lies and won. No one gives a shit about facts anymore.Serious question, not meant to ridicule anyone: but does all of this come from a lack of proper education in the US?
I'm from the Netherlands, I went to a high school that was officially catholic (a holdover from when the school was founded in the 50s). But even though our school was catholic, religion was never thought in that way in our school. No morning prayers or anything like that (I think the vast majority of students weren't religious, like most of the country actually). What we learned about religion was only limited to a specific class, and that handled all big world religions, their history, their teachings (none of it was treated as truth, nor specifically as false either - just presenting what people of various religions believed with a ton of humanistic philosophy thrown in).
Meanwhile the actual sciences just presented science as what it is - either facts or ruling theories. The idea that concepts like climate change or evolution could be in question were completely foreign to us.
As a result I think, I never really heard anyone - either a political group or a protest group or what have you - deny climate change here, or other weird things like that. It's just not something you do.
(also, things like forbidding gay marriage aren't even a question for even the most far-right political groups as far as I know. It's just not something anyone is seemingly interested in - which in part has to do with the fact that the majority of our population isn't religious so that doesn't factor into it, and that it has been legal since 2001 (I think we were the first?), so everyone is pretty used to it by now - I was hoping that is what would happen in the US as well, but who knows at this point). Same goes for abortion etc.
The other major factor is the mix of religion and state. That's just not done here (something similar to the president saying 'God Bless America', or getting the option to swear on the bible in court would be incredibly ridiculed here). We have religious political parties (particularly a christian one), although the influence of religion there is more guided by their faith - religion isn't really a factor in choosing to vote or not vote for them.
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What I'm trying to ask: is the level of influence of religion in education and the state too big in the US (and is that the fault of these viewpoints staying so strong in the face of actual research), and is that likely to change at all?
Edit: rereading my post I realize it may come across as me bragging about my country and making fun of Americans. Really not my intention. To make it up to you some miserable facts about my people: we have a horribly outdated and incredibly racist tradition called Zwarte Piet with too little people being able to admit that it's disgustingly racist, and we have our own Trump like 80s movie villain politician who wants to ban all muslims and who has actually said he wants to burn every copy of the Koran in the country - and he has an actual reasonably sized following - I'm so scared about the upcoming elections.
I hope that evens it out a bit.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Republican media even trumps educational sources - and then you must consider if the educational sources themselves are flawed in the small towns and cities that are deep red. I mean, I think a few them teach creationism. I mean hell (and thank God I knew better) but I had one teacher in grade school believe that everything on the planet consists of little tiny bugs.
She thankfully did not teach science though.
She thankfully did not teach science though.
They asked 3 people and measured the strength in the tone of their answer.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Lack of proper education, conspiracy-minded conservatives that dominate radio and TV, and purposeful misinformation campaigns by people with a vested interest in oil and coal companies.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
It doesn't help that Texas sets a lot of the curriculum for the rest of the country and their school board is usually batshit bonkers crazy.
Starting to reconsider that first amendment haha.
Maybe we need science to start yelling more. Science should really sound like a 5th grader, who tells it like it is. Man, science really needs to appeal more to poor whites, too establishment for them. etc.
This is actually a bit of a problem here in the Netherlands as well, although it isn't 'research vs. religion' but 'research vs. gut feelings & fear (of foreigners)'. A very vocal, very scary anti-muslim movement happening here right now.
The far-right party representing this has been losing power these last couple of years, but after Brexit and Trump I'm very scared what will happen with the elections next year. Like Trump, Wilders (the leader of that party) aims for headlines with very controversial statements, with little to no actual policy plans and a completely inability to work together with other political parties.
Doesn't the Dutch system work against this, though? There's simply no way for him to ever hold a majority, is there?
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Woah, I'm legitimately surprised Canada is high as it is.It's also one of the countries where climate change denial is the most prevalent:
No there isn't. Even if he somehow would be elected as prime minister (which isn't likely at all, but who knows these days) he wouldn't be able to work together with anyone, and the cabinet would fall, leading to re-elections. It has happened numerous times in the past.
The issue is the mass separation of education. The masses are so uneducated and ignorant to basic scientific principles it's impossible to convince them. The lowest common denominator really needs to be raised. The follow the herd mentality is astounding.
Thank God. As a Belgian (who doesn't live there anymore) we have our own Vlaams Belang crazies and the longer they stay fringe the better.
The federal government writing educational policy sounds like a great idea, until we get people like Ben Carson heading the Dept. of Education. I really don't know what an appropriate answer is in the states. I only see the divide getting worse between rural and urban.
EDIT: Oh hey I'm a member now, cool. Can't wait to blow the privilege on some thread backfire.
China and India has more people than the rest of the world, so of course their bars would be wider moran.
They probably made the thing in powerpoint, I've tried dragging things to get them the exact same size - it's impossible (I have since learned better ways)
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Facts and experts are almost looked down upon. Anti-intellectualism is in full force - anyone with a clue is dismissed as an 'elite' and the idiots rule.
More_Badass
Member
I can only speak for myself, but when I try to offer evidence of climate change to my dad, his reaction tends to be that studies and people can be biased, and you can't just believe it because people tell you it's true, need to think for yourself.
He also watches Fox and listens to a conservative news host, so he constantly hears how climate change is just a hoax enforced by a corrupt EPA who just want to smother businesses with over-regulation. And China
Audioboxer
Member
Donald Trump is officially the only world leader who is Donald Trump.
That's embarrassing enough. This is just the gravy.
That's embarrassing enough. This is just the gravy.
chromatic9
Member
It's not so surprising when you can have Reagan and Arnie elected. Looks like more of a figurehead. Trump is going to pass it on to others and just call a few of the shots.
It's also one of the countries where climate change denial is the most prevalent:
It's interesting seeing how much that has to do with just basic ignorance as to where you live.
For example, taking just weather into account, if you were to tell someone who's been living their entire life in a place like Ohio with fresh air, they might not be as inclined to believe you as much as someone who has been living in downtown LA all their life.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
I read someone on FB this morning saying the same thing - in response to an article about the right-wing government (Abbott in particular) in Australia being biased against climate change evidence. All these people posted saying it's a hoax and scientists are all 'paid off' (by who, they didn't elaborate). Our own government even commissioned a task force to investigate wind farms for causing health issues ( I understand this, they're all dodgy coal industry backers)
Why would anyone be against getting rid of coal burning etc and moving towards cheaper, more sustainable energy anyway? I don't understand it. I understand dodgy government people slagging off renewables because they have fossil fuel industry supporters but why the general public?
Just supports what I already think - people disregard experts/scientists and 'think for themselves' against all evidence to the contrary because reasons.
More_Badass
Member
To be fair, Arnie is probably more accomplished than Trump in the sense that Trump had an advantage at the start and Arnie didn't
More_Badass
Member
The most frustrating part about that highlighted part is the radio show host uses the most ridiculous "evidence" to support why scientists are frauds
The host Mark Levin loves bringing up this clearly completely legit petition that 31,000 scientists signed saying that there was no link between humans and climate change. Because if those scientists agree, the rest who don't are all obviously just frauds, zealots, and climate "detruthers"
Of course only 9.000 of those had doctorates in any field, and only 200 were actually climate scientists. And the petition wasn't for agreeing that there was no link at all, but that human emissions wouldn't cause catastrophic change. So if you think it would cause change, but not "catastrophic" change, you might still sign.
China does care?
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Man, too bad I'm gonna be dead when the films of USA being the villain start.
I imagine it's a lot tougher to deny humans can have an effect on stuff like this when you have air problems and such like China does as well
They've done lots of studies. Climate change denialism has less to do with education, and more to do with political beliefs. The republican party doesn't believe in climate change, so neither do republicans, by in large.Serious question, not meant to ridicule anyone: but does all of this come from a lack of proper education in the US?
I'm from the Netherlands, I went to a high school that was officially catholic (a holdover from when the school was founded in the 50s). But even though our school was catholic, religion was never thought in that way in our school. No morning prayers or anything like that (I think the vast majority of students weren't religious, like most of the country actually). What we learned about religion was only limited to a specific class, and that handled all big world religions, their history, their teachings (none of it was treated as truth, nor specifically as false either - just presenting what people of various religions believed with a ton of humanistic philosophy thrown in).
Meanwhile the actual sciences just presented science as what it is - either facts or ruling theories. The idea that concepts like climate change or evolution could be in question were completely foreign to us.
As a result I think, I never really heard anyone - either a political group or a protest group or what have you - deny climate change here, or other weird things like that. It's just not something you do.
(also, things like forbidding gay marriage aren't even a question for even the most far-right political groups as far as I know. It's just not something anyone is seemingly interested in - which in part has to do with the fact that the majority of our population isn't religious so that doesn't factor into it, and that it has been legal since 2001 (I think we were the first?), so everyone is pretty used to it by now - I was hoping that is what would happen in the US as well, but who knows at this point). Same goes for abortion etc.
The other major factor is the mix of religion and state. That's just not done here (something similar to the president saying 'God Bless America', or getting the option to swear on the bible in court would be incredibly ridiculed here). We have religious political parties (particularly a christian one), although the influence of religion there is more guided by their faith - religion isn't really a factor in choosing to vote or not vote for them.
---
What I'm trying to ask: is the level of influence of religion in education and the state too big in the US (and is that the fault of these viewpoints staying so strong in the face of actual research), and is that likely to change at all?
Edit: rereading my post I realize it may come across as me bragging about my country and making fun of Americans. Really not my intention. To make it up to you some miserable facts about my people: we have a horribly outdated and incredibly racist tradition called Zwarte Piet with too little people being able to admit that it's disgustingly racist, and we have our own Trump like 80s movie villain politician who wants to ban all muslims and who has actually said he wants to burn every copy of the Koran in the country - and he has an actual reasonably sized following - I'm so scared about the upcoming elections
I hope that evens it out a bit.
Here's a reading of a scientific paper explaining just what I said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLYT54q9gEQ&ab_channel=C0nc0rdance
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
None of it really makes sense anyway - these people who cry 'hoax' are distrustful of authority/government anyway yet blindly follow Republicans and their beliefs. Bizarre.
I guess similar to Trump supporters - cry 'corruption' then turn a blind eye to it.
Username1198
Member
I've already started saving bottle caps.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Yup. Republican media is a ridiculous monster in the US.
Serious question, not meant to ridicule anyone: but does all of this come from a lack of proper education in the US?
I'm from the Netherlands, I went to a high school that was officially catholic (a holdover from when the school was founded in the 50s). But even though our school was catholic, religion was never thought in that way in our school. No morning prayers or anything like that (I think the vast majority of students weren't religious, like most of the country actually). What we learned about religion was only limited to a specific class, and that handled all big world religions, their history, their teachings (none of it was treated as truth, nor specifically as false either - just presenting what people of various religions believed with a ton of humanistic philosophy thrown in).
Meanwhile the actual sciences just presented science as what it is - either facts or ruling theories. The idea that concepts like climate change or evolution could be in question were completely foreign to us.
As a result I think, I never really heard anyone - either a political group or a protest group or what have you - deny climate change here, or other weird things like that. It's just not something you do.
(also, things like forbidding gay marriage aren't even a question for even the most far-right political groups as far as I know. It's just not something anyone is seemingly interested in - which in part has to do with the fact that the majority of our population isn't religious so that doesn't factor into it, and that it has been legal since 2001 (I think we were the first?), so everyone is pretty used to it by now - I was hoping that is what would happen in the US as well, but who knows at this point). Same goes for abortion etc.
The other major factor is the mix of religion and state. That's just not done here (something similar to the president saying 'God Bless America', or getting the option to swear on the bible in court would be incredibly ridiculed here). We have religious political parties (particularly a christian one), although the influence of religion there is more guided by their faith - religion isn't really a factor in choosing to vote or not vote for them.
---
What I'm trying to ask: is the level of influence of religion in education and the state too big in the US (and is that the fault of these viewpoints staying so strong in the face of actual research), and is that likely to change at all?
Edit: rereading my post I realize it may come across as me bragging about my country and making fun of Americans. Really not my intention. To make it up to you some miserable facts about my people: we have a horribly outdated and incredibly racist tradition called Zwarte Piet with too little people being able to admit that it's disgustingly racist, and we have our own Trump like 80s movie villain politician who wants to ban all muslims and who has actually said he wants to burn every copy of the Koran in the country - and he has an actual reasonably sized following - I'm so scared about the upcoming elections
I hope that evens it out a bit.
Its mostly our media machine that has grown out of control. Somewhere along the way, it became okay to chase ratings and host sensational content in the interest of making a buck. The news used to be a loss leader and journalists used to be a respected profession that held themselves to a high standard. Now none of that matters and its all about making money.
Money in general has just gotten out of control in our country. Rich corporations and other parties can spend tons of money to create astroturf campaigns that do the legwork it takes to convince people that something like net neutrality is actually in fact President Obama trying to take away your internet. Of course that couldn't be farther from the truth, but the dollar is running so rampantly in our country that this kind of thing happens all over the place and instead of putting people in prison for it, we're just letting it get worse. Lobbyists are thrown at our lawmakers and money ends up driving everything.
People here can feel a boot on their neck, but when they ask who's boot it is, they get a hundred different answers and typically the loudest voice tends to be the one they believe.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Man, Great Britain is really good at trying to be US Jr. and always coming up short.It's also one of the countries where climate change denial is the most prevalent:
Lamel
Banned
It's also one of the countries where climate change denial is the most prevalent:
God damn we have been fed some fucked up propaganda in the states.
Oklahoma is now the earthquake capital of the world. Look at this mess.
Every scientist and environmentalist was telling our state leaders this was happening, but they went into denial mode because it would effect jobs in the gas and oil industry. By the time they accepted the truth it was too late and we're told now the damage is irreversible.
Now imagine this on a global scale. Oklahoma is only going to get worse, and it's because our leaders - throwing snowballs and everything - denied our impact on the world despite universal scientific arguments cautioning us.
So when you think Trump is bad, and he is, remember that we have senators like the ones in Oklahoma who deny climate change solely based on a statement in the Bible that there will always be seasons and harvests and sunrises, so they deny we're screwing up the planet based solely on that.
And now they control all three branches of government.
It's too late to reverse course in Oklahoma. Stand up to this NOW. There literally may not be a second chance.
:lol
jack_package_200
Banned
The words "Donald Trump" and "world leader" make me want to drink bleach. Thanks rural america.
Anyway, hopefully the sane european countries and China can bully Donald into staying with previous climate change agreements.
Anyway, hopefully the sane european countries and China can bully Donald into staying with previous climate change agreements.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Guys, this is getting a bit embarrassing for the greatest country in the world.
jack_package_200
Banned
We sure as shit are not the greatest country in the world. We probably never were.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
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