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[CamHostage]

One deal, yeah, but it was a humongous deal that was supposed to be a sure banker. I have no idea why the Saudis pulled out since they aren’t hurting for cash at all. Looks like they truly put most of their eggs in one basket.

I don't think people remember that, this time last year, gamers were psyched and shocked by how many games Embracer was making. THQ Nordic would always end their Directs saying that the dozen or so of games just shown were just a fraction of the complete lineup they were working on. And that was just THQ. Embracer had over 200 games in development before they hit financial skids. They were just going and going, betting on it all working out if they just kept bumrushing the market. Maybe it would have if the 2bil had come through? Maybe it was always doomed to fail...

Embracer currently has a whopping 224 game projects in development

Precisely 11,152 developers are working on that mammoth slate, which includes five Lord of the Rings game projects.

www.gamedeveloper.com

 

[CamHostage]

If Embracer goes bankrupt or are in a position of dire financial straits the IPs they own will most likely be auctioned off or sold to other publishers.

...What other publishers?

Look around, who's still doing the volume of brands that publishers used to carry in the PS1/PS2/PS3 days? Activision is down to 1 or 2 brands (plus Blizzard.) Take-2 has maybe 7 active franchises. EA put out 12 games last year, which was an upturn, but 8 of them were annualized/semi-annual sports or racing games. Ubisoft has cut back, as have pretty much all the Japanese publishers. Square Enix sold off the same brands that now we're hoping get bought up in auction by publishers like Square Enix.

I fucking hate Embracer so much, my fav franchise after mass effect. Fuck em I hope they implode for good. Maybe this way someone decent gets the IP.

You have to understand, Embracer was the hope for these brands.

Nobody "decent" is waiting in the wings for a third chance to own franchises that bankrupted or endangered two other publishers.

Embracer built its business on doing things that old-school gamers still thought was a good idea. They bought up tons of IP and became a multi-brand publisher owning many developers (often with IP tied to the studio rather than outright owned by the parent.) They made remakes and new games of franchises people thought they'd never see again. They backed developers who were on the brink, and they reformed studios which had bankrupted themselves, despite some great titles in their portfolios, with either poor financial decisions or bad studio management. Embracer wasn't evil, it was just dumb; it tried to succeed where everybody else had lost their shirts, and went down roads everybody else thought were dead ends. And in better economic eras, sometimes dumb works! But those times aren't now.

...Embracer is making us so mad right now because, in better times, they were the ones trying to make us happy in the good times by buying up and funding all these brands. We probably weren't going to get a new Deus Ex from Square Enix after two sales disappointments previously, but Embracer was like, "Hey, Deux Ex! People like that series, right? Right?" And same with a lot of brands. Embracer made a lot of stuff, and now that they're canceling a lot of stuff, some of that stuff is stuff we would have liked. If it was just We Sing games being canned, we wouldn't care.

Easy solution everyone: DON'T BUY EMBRACER GAMES. This way they'll go bankrupt earlier and all the IP's these morons hold hostage get released faster.

Except those franchises won't be freed, they'll just die.

 

[KXVXII9X]

Damn... Deus Ex: HR is one of the series that molded my taste for atmospheric and immersive games. I believe it was one of my first western RPGs.

A real shame to the team behind these games. I even enjoyed Mankind Divided although I never got to finish it.

I was fearing this would be the fate of the series when it went to Embracer Group. I'm not surprised but a bit gutted. Definitely one of the better series around.

 

[Kadve]

I don’t think you people realize that Embracer seems to be in full survival mode at the moment, and they’d probably be freeing up more than $60 million by scrapping the game this early in development. Cash they need to stay afloat.

Except not really. They are fully profitable and these cuts are done to reduce net debt. Prove to investors that they are fulle capable of functioning even without the Saudi deal.

 

[DAHGAMING]

Fuck sake, these Embracer boys are a bunch of cunts, I guess they pump out some real soyboy shit the modern woofters like to play on there shity mobiles, fucking take me back to the 90s- 00s gaming scene coz the recent yrs are just disapointment from pretty much all directions.

 

[KXVXII9X]

I see so much of the last paragraph that it is extremely frustrating to watch. Everyone wants things dirt cheap or pirates. Then they want every game to be 50+ hours and release under 3 years. Then say they want innovation, yet they never buy experimental games on release and undervalue them. Then they wonder why every game is the same all while nitpicking games that do something different.

You can't cancel everything. If the game is nearly finished, canceling it at this point doesn't help you out much. It's canceling games that are earlier in development where you get actual savings.

It's actually a catch 22. A lot of these smaller studios would have gone under by themselves too. Lots of small studios are laying off staff or closing, they just get less attention.

Gamers decry games moving to 70 dollars, but they also don't care about operating costs, meanwhile, they also complain that games take too long to develop, while they don't buy the games that have come out... They also complain that games are too samey, but largely do not reward most games that are innovative or risky.

 

[Phase]

Gamers decry games moving to 70 dollars, but they also don't care about operating costs, meanwhile, they also complain that games take too long to develop, while they don't buy the games that have come out... They also complain that games are too samey, but largely do not reward most games that are innovative or risky.

Studios are to blame for the absurdly expensive and long development times, not gamers. Look at recent explosions of Lethal Company and Palworld. Gamers want fun games. That's it. You don't need to spend 100's of millions to make a game, nor do you need to spend 5+ years making one. This is entirely the fault of AAA studios themselves trying to keep an unsustainable model going, not gamers who're rightfully complaining about the poor decisions being made with IPs they love.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Back in the day, if a company really wanted to they could crank out game fast. M&M PC RPGs as follows. Good games too. They needed some time to transition to s 3D engine later in the 90s, but still cranked them out. Never played M&M X though.

Game companies have to realize you dont have to reinvent the wheel every game or sequel. Just look at all the annual CODs, sports, and at one time Assassin's Creed and NFS games were annual.

Main series
Might and Magic Book One: The Secret of the Inner Sanctum (1986; Apple II, Mac, MS-DOS, Commodore 64, NES, MSX, PC-Engine CD-ROM²)
Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World (1988; Apple II, Amiga, MS-DOS, Commodore 64, Mac, Genesis, Super NES (Europe only), Super Famicom (Japan-only, different from the European Super NES version), MSX)
Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra (1991; MS-DOS, Mac, Amiga, Super NES, Genesis (prototype), Sega CD, PC-Engine Super CD-ROM²)
Might and Magic IV: Clouds of Xeen (1992; MS-DOS, Mac)
Might and Magic V: Darkside of Xeen (1993; MS-DOS, Mac)
Might and Magic: World of Xeen (1994; MS-DOS, Mac)
Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven (1998; Windows)
Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor (1999; Windows)
Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer (2000; Windows)
Might and Magic IX: Writ of Fate (2002; Windows)
Might & Magic X: Legacy (2014; Windows, OS X)

Just like music 'artists' now. Back in the 60's and 70's, most bands released an album or two a year. For example...the whole Beatles discography was produced and released in 7 years. Now that could be 1 or 2 albums for most artists now. Same could go for movies. They used to release a James Bond every year or two. Now is 4-5 years. The time between the last Pierce Brosnan movie, to the next Bond movie (basically the Craig era-- from 2002 to likely 2026).......24 years for only 5 movies.

 

[ProtoByte]

Studios are to blame for the absurdly expensive and long development times, not gamers. Look at recent explosions of Lethal Company and Palworld. Gamers want fun games. That's it. You don't need to spend 100's of millions to make a game, nor do you need to spend 5+ years making one. This is entirely the fault of AAA studios themselves trying to keep an unsustainable model going, not gamers who're rightfully complaining about the poor decisions being made with IPs they love.

What a silly comment. You've named 2 games. 2.

Palworld and Lethal Company do not dictate the expertise, time, effort and money that can or should be put into different games.

Plenty of "fun" games have come out without getting enough success to thrive on. You're in a Deus Ex thread (not a very expensive series btw) and you're seriously going to argue that people don't put their money where their mouths are in regards to this IP?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Too bad Embracer didn't save some money to make those games.

They did. They have half a billion dollars cash on hand as of September. They planned on having more investment funding coming in and that fell through.

That shortfall has resulted in them being over extended by a large sum and like any entity whose expenses outweigh their income, they've had to tighten their belt.

I never believed in Embracer, but people pretending like they were simply stupid are entirely naive about how business works. They took a large gamble based on what they understood to be the case at a certain time and things changed very quickly on them.

Global inflation and increased interest rates. The fed didn't really start to get that aggressive until after they bought Crystal Dynamics and Eidos. That's why they went out for Saudi investment because the Saudis are looking to invest in non-oil businesses right now. Saudis invested 1 billion in Embracer in June of 2022 after rates started going up and after the crystal dynamics and eidos purchase.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

...What other publishers?

Look around, who's still doing the volume of brands that publishers used to carry in the PS1/PS2/PS3 days? Activision is down to 1 or 2 brands (plus Blizzard.) Take-2 has maybe 7 active franchises. EA put out 12 games last year, which was an upturn, but 8 of them were annualized/semi-annual sports or racing games. Ubisoft has cut back, as have pretty much all the Japanese publishers. Square Enix sold off the same brands that now we're hoping get bought up in auction by publishers like Square Enix.



You have to understand, Embracer was the hope for these brands.

Nobody "decent" is waiting in the wings for a third chance to own franchises that bankrupted or endangered two other publishers.

Embracer built its business on doing things that old-school gamers still thought was a good idea. They bought up tons of IP and became a multi-brand publisher owning many developers (often with IP tied to the studio rather than outright owned by the parent.) They made remakes and new games of franchises people thought they'd never see again. They backed developers who were on the brink, and they reformed studios which had bankrupted themselves, despite some great titles in their portfolios, with either poor financial decisions or bad studio management. Embracer wasn't evil, it was just dumb; it tried to succeed where everybody else had lost their shirts, and went down roads everybody else thought were dead ends.

...Embracer is making us so mad right now because, in better times, they were the ones trying to make us happy in the good times by buying up and funding all these brands. We probably weren't going to get a new Deus Ex from Square Enix after two sales disappointments previously, but Embracer was like, "Hey, Deux Ex! People like that series, right? Right?" And same with a lot of brands. Embracer made a lot of stuff, and now that they're canceling a lot of stuff, some of that stuff is stuff we would have liked. If it was just We Sing games being canned, we wouldn't care.



Except those franchises won't be freed, they'll just die.

Tencent has deep pockets. Maybe they'd buy up a bunch of IPs. They always seem to dabble buying up portions of companies. But for Sony, MS, Nintendo, Amazon etc... Embracer has so many mid tier and noname studios under their belt I dont see the big guys collectively buying up like 50+ indie studios. I think Embracer's master list of studios across their publishing arms is like 100 studios.

 

[Killer8]

I wish Microsoft would've bought up the remnants of Eidos and Crystal Dynamics. I think they'd have fared much better under Xbox than Embracer, who paid a mere $300 million for the studios. Deus Ex, as a first person cyberpunk game, would fit very well in the Xbox stable of IPs. Crystal Dynamics are already co-developing Perfect Dark with The Initiative so would make sense to fully integrate the studio into MS. Rise of the Tomb Raider was also a timed Xbox One exclusive back in the day, so there is a historical relationship between the companies. It seems like a bargain compared to spending $69 billion to own IP they're going to release on other platforms anyway.

 

[CamHostage]

Tencent has deep pockets. Maybe they'd buy up a bunch of IPs. They always seem to dabble buying up portions of companies. But for Sony, MS, Nintendo, Amazon etc... Embracer has so many mid tier and noname studios under their belt I dont see the big guys collectively buying up like 50+ indie studios. I think Embracer's master list of studios across their publishing arms is like 100 studios.

...Let's not wish for Tencent to save us.

But also, Tencent didn't fill those deep pockets by being stupid. They don't try to make million-making sellers in a billions-driven market, and they don't make old-school single-player games in a GAAS/MTX market.

(Also, Tencent can barely get a Metal Slug out four years later, I really don't think their heart would be in it to fast-track Deux Ex or other Embracer brands.)

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

What does his opinion on Suicide squad have to do with his belief that terminating the WIP Deus Ex was a sound business decision for a near bankrupt publisher to make?

Was he incorrect about the recent games in the franchise not selling very well?

Are you guys the same person or some other equally retarded shit?

 

[Mr Hyde]

What other publishers?

Look around, who's still doing the volume of brands that publishers used to carry in the PS1/PS2/PS3 days? Activision is down to 1 or 2 brands (plus Blizzard.) Take-2 has maybe 7 active franchises. EA put out 12 games last year, which was an upturn, but 8 of them were annualized/semi-annual sports or racing games. Ubisoft has cut back, as have pretty much all the Japanese publishers. Square Enix sold off the same brands that now we're hoping get bought up in auction by publishers like Square Enix.

You make a good point. Most of the IPs Embracer owns are fueled by nostalgia, and Embracer probably thought they could capitalize on that seeing that excitement and talk around those IPs still existed. But SE knew first hand many of those IPs were dead in the water, and sold them off dirt cheap. And Embracer are now scrambling to stay afloat as a publisher and sheds dead weight.

I still think their strategy of buying up properties and studios are irresponsible though. And as far as IPs goes, once they acquired them they've should at least given them a shot, maybe reinventing and tried different things where SE and other publishers failed and see if they could capitalize on the good will and nostalgia of said IPs. I do think many of the franchises under their belt still have some gas left in the tank. They tried with Saints Row, but instead of making it fresh and exciting, they fucked around and found out, and now their house of cards are crumbling.

 

[Camreezie]

Eat shit Embracer

 

[RoadHazard]

Embracer is a shameful disgrace, as a Swede I'm sorry they exist.

Edit: I guess there are also more nuanced ways to look at this as some people in this thread have demonstrated.

 

[Phase]

What a silly comment. You've named 2 games. 2.

Palworld and Lethal Company do not dictate the expertise, time, effort and money that can or should be put into different games.

Plenty of "fun" games have come out without getting enough success to thrive on. You're in a Deus Ex thread (not a very expensive series btw) and you're seriously going to argue that people don't put their money where their mouths are in regards to this IP?

I don't get your post as it's not even addressing the point I was making. I was saying it's the studios' fault for having 5+ year dev times and bloated budgets, and that gamers have a right to decry the move to a $70 standard because the bloated budgets and dev time hasn't correlated with a better product in their eyes.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

It wasn’t gonna sell shit, so good work.

 

[RAIDEN1]

For the foreseeable future, Cyberpunk will be the closest we get to a proper new installment into Deus Ex, the only way now for it to be back is if fans of the franchise somehow banded together and decide to take it on....even if it looks totally remote right now..a new studio would have to be formed, or maybe the studio who did Robocop could take it on..but in any case probably the most disappointing gaming news of 2024.....

 

[lh032]

Microsoft should buy Embracer.

we dont need more layoffs.

 

[Ozriel]

Are you guys the same person or some other equally retarded shit?

Eh. It’s a common sense comment. You wouldn’t understand

 

[Svejk]

This is bullshit... They green light Avengers trash, but cancel Deus Ex? Fuck them.

If someone could compile a list of what games/studios they own, it would make it easier for me to not support them in anyway.

 

[CamHostage]

I still think their strategy of buying up properties and studios are irresponsible though.

Irresponsible like Microsoft buying up two different active multiplatform publishers to add brands to its game portfolio (and subscription service) of titles already available on its platform? Irresponsible like Disney buying Marvel and Lucasfilm and all of Fox for just its streaming service, then having to restructure its streaming plan because streaming subs never added up to enough? Irresponsible like Warner Bros merging and unmerging with other massive studios so many times, it's hard to even know what the studio is named now?

Irresponsible buying pays off if you get the money rolling in to justify and enjoy being that big. But if the bubble bursts, you've got a lot of responsibilities to worry about.

And as far as IPs goes, once they acquired them they've should at least given them a shot, maybe reinventing and tried different things where SE and other publishers failed and see if they could capitalize on the good will and nostalgia of said IPs.

They gave them a shot. They were making Deux Ex, and over 220 other games, before the financial restructuring following the crash. And THQ put out remasters of DarkStalkers and Kingdoms of Amalur and Red Faction Guerrilla and Legend of Kay and Baja: Edge of Control and Risen and Destroy All Humans and Spellforce 3 and Titan Quest and Spongebob Bikini Bottom, plus new Darksiders and Jagged Alliance 3 and Trine 5 and SpongeBob SquarePants: The Cosmic Shake and SuperPower 3 and AEW Fight Forever and MX vs. ATV Legends: Supercross World Tour and Way of the Hunter Monster Jam: Steel Titans 2 and Desperados 3...

They were doing it. They were capitalizing. Then, they ran out of capital...

 

[balls of snow]

Fuck this. Fuck you Embracer.

 

[crunchyBiscuits]

Dammit man! This sucks

 

[Mr Hyde]

Irresponsible like Microsoft buying up two different active multiplatform publishers to add brands to its game portfolio (and subscription service) of titles already available on its platform? Irresponsible like Disney buying Marvel and Lucasfilm and all of Fox for just its streaming service? Irresponsible like Warner Bros merging and unmerging with other massive studios so many times, it's hard to even know what the studio is named now?

Irresponsible buying pays off if you get the money rolling in to justify and enjoy being that big. But if the bubble bursts, you've got a lot of responsibilities to worry about

Yes, consolidation rarely brings any innovation or new ideas to the table. You're mentioning Disney and wee se how well off they are now with Star Wars and Marvel. These companies grows too big and too fast and suddenly they're like, oops, we fucked up, resulting in mass lay offs, franchises that grow stale and with it, disappointing box office and upset fans. It's just a shit show all around. Fuck these mega corps buying up everything and ruining it with their shitty corporate culture.

They gave them a shot. They were making Deux Ex, and over 220 other games, before the financial restructuring following the crash. And THQ put out remasters of DarkStalkers and Kingdoms of Amalur and Red Faction Guerrilla and Legend of Kay and Baja: Edge of Control and Risen and Destroy All Humans and Spellforce 3 and Titan Quest and Spongebob Bikini Bottom, plus new Darksiders and Jagged Alliance 3 and Trine 5 and SpongeBob SquarePants: The Cosmic Shake and SuperPower 3 and AEW Fight Forever and MX vs. ATV Legends: Supercross World Tour and Way of the Hunter Monster Jam: Steel Titans 2 and Desperados 3...

Gimme a break. They didn't try. Half of those you listed are remasters, and while that is cool and all, I'm talking about bringing new ideas to the table, reinventing the franchises and capitalize off that. Deus Ex didn't even get off the ground before it got cancelled. That's not trying. That's just mismanagement. Which brings me to my first response about consolidation. It fucks up the industry and we can see it here in full swing. The bubble has burst and now it's just full survival mode for many of these developers getting shit canned by greedy corporations.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Da Ffff just sell these IP's.
Quit killing them.

 

[BlueLyria]

This is bullshit... They green light Avengers trash, but cancel Deus Ex? Fuck them.

If someone could compile a list of what games/studios they own, it would make it easier for me to not support them in anyway.

Wrong publisher, Avengers was Square Enix I think?
Still a dumb fucking move to greenlight Avengers but not Dude Sex 3

 

[Dazraell]

Wrong publisher, Avengers was Square Enix I think?
Still a dumb fucking move to greenlight Avengers but not Dude Sex 3

I got something even more grim. Some rumors says that Deus Ex: Mankind Divided was originally meant to be a much larger game, but Square Enix Europe decided to split it into two parts. That's why the game ended so abruptly. The weak reception let to the sequel being canned

 

[Barakov]

Source

Official statement:

Now this actually makes me angry.

 

[balls of snow]

What hope do you think that new ip is gonna have when you let go of 97 people. You think morale is gonna be super high after that shit.
Fuck im mad.

 

[CamHostage]

Gimme a break. They didn't try. Half of those you listed are remasters, and while that is cool and all, I'm talking about bringing new ideas to the table, reinventing the franchises and capitalize off that. Deus Ex didn't even get off the ground before it got cancelled. That's not trying.

And the other 2/3s (and more that I didn't list) were not remasters. That was one of the THQ approaches: remaster the popular original games, get a start-up studio started on the brand, then make original sequels (and in the case of Darkstalkers and maybe others I can't remember, also spin-offs) after the brand is re-established and the team is up to speed.

As far as bringing new ideas to the table... you're typing that, but I don't see that being what you're saying across various posts. You're asking for sequels and reinstated franchises, products which as you said "capitalize on the good will and nostalgia of said IPs." You're saying you want more of what you liked before (and in the case of Saints Row, you want none of whatever new "fucked around and found out" ideas you personally didn't agree with, just plain Saints Row and more of it, please.) We know nothing about this Deus Ex project other than that it got canceled, so try not to jump to the hyped conclusion that it would have been "bringing new ideas to the table" and "reinventing the franchises" since we have no idea if this studio, in this day and age, on an Embracer budget, while at the same time supposedly contracting staff out to Microsoft to help on Fable, no idea if they were capable of.

THQ and old brands from the '000s and '010s (or older) aren't where I'd expect "new ideas" and "reinvention" to flower. It happens, and it's great when it does, but it's not really what this thread is about. This is about the four-game (and multi-spinoff) Deus Ex franchise not getting a long-awaited and much-anticipated Part 5.

Which brings me to my first response about consolidation. It fucks up the industry and we can see it here in full swing. The bubble has burst and now it's just full survival mode for many of these developers getting shit canned by greedy corporations.

Eh, it can... but I guess we'll never know what the unconsolidated market would have been if the consolidation bubble hadn't been so virulent. Many of these studios suffered severe financial strain or actually closed for a time before Embracer bought them up (some sold because Embracer was working well at the time and they got a good deal to rise along with them, but many of the names on the Embracer roster were rescued.)

I have some concern and level of disdain for industry consolidation being so rampant in that era (too many people were celebrating mondo mergers by saying they'd get Activision games free on Game Pass now or there would be more characters to cross over in Multiversus, and that was a very dark bright-side view IMO, especially in hindsight now...), but it's always been the way of the market for companies to come together and then sluff off fat and then new companies start up from either a dislike of the conglomeration or having been sluffed off or just an independent spirit, and the cycle continues. Some good things have come from companies getting very big and being able to finance huge endeavors. And the indie life or singular publisher-driven business hasn't been without horror stories.

...If Embracer had blithely continued on its path as it had since 2013 and just put out more and more of the stuff they've been doing (including original IP, remasters, and sequel revivals,) I'm not sure what bad could have been said about its consolidation approach? Games were being made, studios were keeping people employed, and Embracer kept embracing brands and brand-makers that were out in the cold.
Everything was more or less fine, until it wasn't.

 

[What A Shame...]

I got something even more grim. Some rumors says that Deus Ex: Mankind Divided was originally meant to be a much larger game, but Square Enix Europe decided to split it into two parts. That's why the game ended so abruptly. The weak reception let to the sequel being canned

When I hear shit like this it almost makes the cancellation feel like a blessing in disguise. Can't imagine how many parts the original Deus Ex would've been split in to if it had been released in 2024.

 

[Madflavor]

You don't understand. It's not just about buying a studio. You have to fund the studio. 273 employees across 3 studios. The fixed expenses related to operating costs are high here.

You're probably looking at 30-40 million dollars a year to operate Crystal Dynamics. Over the course of 5 years, that is 150-200 million dollars.

Restructuring studios is not uncommon, in fact it just happened with Activision Blizzard. I don't know where you pulled those exact figures from, but whatever.

Rise of the Tomb Raider didn't sell 12 million copies at full price. If we assume an average price of 35 dollars that's 420 million dollars in revenue, but then you have to account for development costs (~150 million) as I said, platform/retail cost (126 million), marketing and publishing (at least 10 million), and then taxes (even assuming a 21% (88 million)... that all adds up to 46 milion in profit, ignoring any other expenses and being super conservative on some of these figures.

I know it didn't sell 12 million copies at full price, but you implied Tomb Raider is not a strong IP, which it is. The Reboot Trilogy sold 38 million lifetime sales which is a perfectly respectable number, and it accounts for 43% of the sales for the entire franchise, so there's no indication that overall interest in the franchise was dying. Now if their net gain from that was minimal, IF it was minimal, then that's more of an issue of how they budgeted these games. Furthermore it was reported that Microsoft spent $100 million dollars for that exclusivity deal for Rise of the Tomb Raider.

And as I mentioned before their games have reviewed worse and worse and sold worse and worse since then, while their costs have only gone up.

Couple of things here. First off reviewing worse is just outright not true. Both Xbox versions of TR13 and Rise sit at an 86 on Metacritic, with Rise having 30+ more reviews than TR13. But on Open Critic, TR13 has an 85 and Rise has an 86, and also has way more reviews. Shadow, which was the latest game did review worse than the previous two games, but the notion that the recent trilogy of Tomb Raider games reviewed worse and worse, is simply not true.

Secondly let's be careful about using declining sales figures as proof that interest was waning, because there are a number of factors that contributed to why this was. First is that Tomb Raider 2013 was heavily marketed, way more so than Rise of the Tomb Raider. It was a big budget reboot of an iconic franchise. It was even on Conan O'Brian leading up to release. That game was being shown everywhere. It also has a 2.5 year head start on Rise, which definitely contributes to having more lifetime sales than Rise, which I believe is around 2-3 million. Third, while they made a huge profit off of Microsoft's exclusivity deal, that potentially may not have helped with it's first year total sales figures due to the game being released on the PS4 11 months later, long enough for some people to forget it existed.

Somehow people think you buy a studio and that's the end of the cost. The reality is that Crystal Dynamics is almost certainly a net negative which is why Square Enix was just happy to sell them and get any sort of profit rather than layoff the staff and have to pay them severance and get nothing.

No it's not. That completely depends on how they would restructure CD upon acquisition, and how they budget their games moving forward. Tomb Raider is certainly a strong and recognizable enough IP to profit off of.

You mention Tomb Raider but fail to understand that Crystal Dynamics doesn't own it. Embracer sold it to Amazon.

No they leased the rights to Amazon. Amazon doesn't have full ownership of Tomb Raider.

 

[Dazraell]

When I hear shit like this it almost makes the cancellation feel like a blessing in disguise. Can't imagine how many parts the original Deus Ex would've been split in to if it had been released in 2024.

The whole thing was even more bizarre. These are just past rumors, but apparently Square was worried the game development might take too long so they decided to go with splitting MD to two parts. Some time later the same execs started worrying the game might have not enough content, so they created that shitty Breach mode instead

 

[FullMetalx117]

Damn...would've loved to have seen Deus Ex in current gen form

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Restructuring studios is not uncommon, in fact it just happened with Activision Blizzard. I don't know where you pulled those exact figures from, but whatever.



I know it didn't sell 12 million copies at full price, but you implied Tomb Raider is not a strong IP, which it is. The Reboot Trilogy sold 38 million lifetime sales which is a perfectly respectable number, and it accounts for 43% of the sales for the entire franchise, so there's no indication that overall interest in the franchise was dying. Now if their net gain from that was minimal, IF it was minimal, then that's more of an issue of how they budgeted these games. Furthermore it was reported that Microsoft spent $100 million dollars for that exclusivity deal for Rise of the Tomb Raider.


Couple of things here. First off reviewing worse is just outright not true. Both Xbox versions of TR13 and Rise sit at an 86 on Metacritic, with Rise having 30+ more reviews than TR13. But on Open Critic, TR13 has an 85 and Rise has an 86, and also has way more reviews. Shadow, which was the latest game did review worse than the previous two games, but the notion that the recent trilogy of Tomb Raider games reviewed worse and worse, is simply not true.

Secondly let's be careful about using declining sales figures as proof that interest was waning, because there are a number of factors that contributed to why this was. First is that Tomb Raider 2013 was heavily marketed, way more so than Rise of the Tomb Raider. It was a big budget reboot of an iconic franchise. It was even on Conan O'Brian leading up to release. That game was being shown everywhere. It also has a 2.5 year head start on Rise, which definitely contributes to having more lifetime sales than Rise, which I believe is around 2-3 million. Third, while they made a huge profit off of Microsoft's exclusivity deal, that potentially may not have helped with it's first year total sales figures due to the game being released on the PS4 11 months later, long enough for some people to forget it existed.



No it's not. That completely depends on how they would restructure CD upon acquisition, and how they budget their games moving forward. Tomb Raider is certainly a strong and recognizable enough IP to profit off of.



No they leased the rights to Amazon. Amazon doesn't have full ownership of Tomb Raider.

CD never owned TR.

 

[Solarstrike]

Valve should buy the IP

 

[Arsic]

Call up Phil.

 

[Madflavor]

CD never owned TR.

Correct but they've been developing the series the longest so I trust them to continue on with it, because for the most part they've done a pretty good job. If not, then hopefully someone acquires the IP if Embracer does go under.

 

[hybrid_birth]

 

[Brigandier]

I never asked for this....

This company is a total sham.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

...Let's not wish for Tencent to save us.

But also, Tencent didn't fill those deep pockets by being stupid. They don't try to make million-making sellers in a billions-driven market, and they don't make old-school single-player games in a GAAS/MTX market.

(Also, Tencent can barely get a Metal Slug out four years later, I really don't think their heart would be in it to fast-track Deux Ex or other Embracer brands.)

And back in the day Neo Geo Metal Slug games came out every two years. Modern day gaming is messed up in terms of budgets and timeliness.

 

[graywolf323]

Valve should buy the IP

how would that help? we need to complete the Adam Jensen trilogy and Valve doesn’t know how to count to 3

 

[R6Rider]

 

[Unknown Soldier]

So many knifes on the back for a group called Embracer...

You have to get pretty close to them before you can knife them. All part of the master plan...

 

[kiphalfton]

What a silly comment. You've named 2 games. 2.

Palworld and Lethal Company do not dictate the expertise, time, effort and money that can or should be put into different games.

Plenty of "fun" games have come out without getting enough success to thrive on. You're in a Deus Ex thread (not a very expensive series btw) and you're seriously going to argue that people don't put their money where their mouths are in regards to this IP?

Grill dude for listing 2 games... proceeds to list one game.

 

[adamsapple]

 

[BacklashWave534]

Everyone was so excited about the purchases and mergers. So far we have lost Time Splitters 3, Elex 3, Deus Ex and many more just from Embracer. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of layoffs on the Microsoft side. This is why mergers and acquisitions suck.