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[graywolf323]

https://www.axios.com/2023/12/12/google-antitrust-suit-epic-games

Details: The jury agreed with Epic Games on every question it was asked to consider:

• "[T]hat Google has monopoly power in the Android app distribution markets and in-app billing services markets, that Google did anticompetitive things in those markets, and that Epic was injured by that behavior," per The Verge.
• "[The jury] decided Google has an illegal tie between its Google Play app store and its Google Play Billing payment services, too, and that its distribution agreement, Project Hug, deals with game developers and deals with OEMs were anticompetitive too."

Juries are dumb…

 

[poppabk]

https://www.axios.com/2023/12/12/google-antitrust-suit-epic-games

Details: The jury agreed with Epic Games on every question it was asked to consider:

• "[T]hat Google has monopoly power in the Android app distribution markets and in-app billing services markets, that Google did anticompetitive things in those markets, and that Epic was injured by that behavior," per The Verge.
• "[The jury] decided Google has an illegal tie between its Google Play app store and its Google Play Billing payment services, too, and that its distribution agreement, Project Hug, deals with game developers and deals with OEMs were anticompetitive too."

Juries are dumb…

Looks like Nintendo and Sony are about to join the list of 'going third party'

 

[kikkis]

Only in courts this one can win and apple one lose.

 

[Mr Moose]

Fuck Google but also... Eh? You can have your own store on Android. How about iOS?

Looks like Nintendo and Sony are about to join the list of 'going third party'

Epic already said they are different.

 

[Fake]

Apple next?

 

[ByWatterson]

Epic already said they are different.

What did they say? Epic might back off, but verdicts like this could get other litigants to jump in.

 

[Dorfdad]

Precidense issuing set. If they can get this to stick pending appeals and more court cases trying to overturn this it could be a BIG thing. If this sticks they can use this against apple in another lawsuit.

 

[Mr Moose]

What did they say? Epic might back off, but verdicts like this could get other litigants to jump in.

Epic explains why it hasn't sued Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft over 30% fee | Epic vs Google

Sign up for the GI Daily here to get the biggest news straight to your inbox Epic Games has offered an explanation as t…

www.gamesindustry.biz

 

[poppabk]

Epic already said they are different.

Different for now.

 

[Gallard]

Don't know anything about this case, but was checking /r/gamedev's comments on it, and someone said this:

What caused the ruling is that they offer specific publishers deals with 0-10% rather than the 30% they charge everyone else, including Epic. And the connection of Google Play and Google Billing to allow for that is illegal in the marketplace.

If true, could explain what makes this situation different from Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft.

 

[poodaddy]

Google's horribly corrupt, but Epic is no better, and they've got heavy ties to the CCP. I don't know man, can't say I agree with this one.

 

[Alexios]

If true, could explain what makes this situation different from Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft.

What? All three make special deals like, constantly.

Exclusives here, timed there, console exclusives here, marketing rights there, publishing rights here, marketing costs there, streaming here, subscription there, partnership here, etc., tons of money goes around and most smaller pubs/devs don't have any leverage for anything similar to the big ones.

Still, as the article says we don't know what the judge will ask of Google, Epic didn't ask for damages, the judge said he's not going to try and tell Google what the fees should be, I dunno, we'll see soon enough (and then the ruling will be appealed and won't settle for years anyway).

Android already allows other stores so I guess they could get fined for anti competitive practices against other stores and they have to stop making such deals but otherwise business as usual? No clue.

Juries should be investigated and if anyone has an EGS account with free games retrial

The point is not the deals themselves, but the market share - Google App Store having the biggest market share while paying others not to launch their stores is a different thing from just paying for the deal by a smaller store.

I'm responding to a post referring to deals like Spotify's giving them a different fee % or any other benefits joe average Play Store developer doesn't get to launch their apps on Play Store, nothing to do with store competitors paid to not launch their stores, can you read or nah?

 

[darrylgorn]

But they lost against Apple...

 

[graywolf323]

But they lost against Apple...

Apple wasn’t a jury trial IIRC

 

[poppabk]

Don't know anything about this case, but was checking /r/gamedev's comments on it, and someone said this:

What caused the ruling is that they offer specific publishers deals with 0-10% rather than the 30% they charge everyone else, including Epic. And the connection of Google Play and Google Billing to allow for that is illegal in the marketplace.

If true, could explain what makes this situation different from Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft.

Except we already know that CoD got sweetheart deals from Sony and MS.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

I think they're going to try to get at Apple a second time, if this should stick in Court.

 

[Bernoulli]

Apple next

 

[Ozzie666]

Time for Epic to lay off more people? celebrate the win?
In all honesty, is this win good or bad for gaming, or just going to make Epic richer?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Exclusives here, timed there, console exclusives here, marketing rights there, publishing rights here, marketing costs there, streaming here, subscription there, partnership here, etc., tons of money goes around and most smaller pubs/devs don't have any leverage for anything similar to the big ones.

The point is not the deals themselves, but the market share - Google App Store having the biggest market share while paying others not to launch their stores is a different thing from just paying for the deal by a smaller store.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

LMFAO how the actual fuck did Google find a way to lose this case when Apple won and Apple's policies are much more restrictive than Google's? That is one amazing fuckup on Google's part...

...actually, never mind. You can always expect Google to fuck up. I owned a Pixel once, I know.

 

[Three]

LMFAO how the actual fuck did Google find a way to lose this case when Apple won and Apple's policies are much more restrictive than Google's? That is one amazing fuckup on Google's part...

...actually, never mind. You can always expect Google to fuck up. I owned a Pixel once, I know.

It's a jury trial in this one so Joe public voted. It will likely go to another court. Having said that, the jury was absolutely right to call out product tying between Google Play store and Google billing services and I'm not sure if Apple do that too. I just don't see how that is anticompetitive for Epic specifically since they just get a better rate. Unless they have their own billing services or were just upset they didn't have access to the users billing information since it's hidden from app developers.

 

[PuppetMaster]

I said wow!

 

[Ar¢tos]

What? All three make special deals like, constantly.

Exclusives here, timed there, console exclusives here, marketing rights there, publishing rights here, marketing costs there, streaming here, subscription there, partnership here, etc., tons of money goes around and most smaller pubs/devs don't have any leverage for anything similar to the big ones.

Still, as the article says we don't know what the judge will ask of Google, Epic didn't ask for damages, the judge said he's not going to try and tell Google what the fees should be, I dunno, we'll see soon enough (and then the ruling will be appealed and won't settle for years anyway).

Android already allows other stores so I guess they could get fined for anti competitive practices against other stores and they have to stop making such deals but otherwise business as usual? No clue.

Juries should be investigated and if anyone has an EGS account with free games retrial


I'm responding to a post referring to deals like Spotify's giving them a different fee % or any other benefits joe average Play Store developer doesn't get to launch their apps on Play Store, nothing to do with store competitors paid to not launch their stores, can you read or nah?

Do you think the wording on those deals says straight away pay for exclusivity or timed exclusivity?
They don't...

 

[Bernoulli]

It's a jury trial in this one so Joe public voted. It will likely go to another court. Having said that, the jury was absolutely right to call out product tying between Google Play store and Google billing services and I'm not sure if Apple do that too. I just don't see how that is anticompetitive for Epic specifically since they just get a better rate. Unless they have their own billing services or were just upset they didn't have access to the users billing information since it's hidden from app developers.

They have their own billing and they don't get better rates, but others get it

 

[DaGwaphics]

Will be interesting to see what the proposed resolution will be.

 

[AJUMP23]

What I am trying to figure out is how they lose apple and win google. They seem like the same case.

 

[Fbh]

What I am tryin to figure out is how they lose apple and win google. They seem like the same case.

Yeah I don't get this either.
If anything Apple holds a much tighter leash around iOS than Google does with Android.
Android does allow for other stores and installing apps downloaded from other places is simple and easy.

I mean I get it's really hard to establish yourself as an alternative because the google play store is the default store pre-installed on all android devices and 99% of people won't bother looking for and downloading an alternative. But it's still not as restrictive as iOs.

 

[AJUMP23]

Yeah I don't get this either.
If anything Apple holds a much tighter leash around iOS than Google does with Android.
Android does allow for other stores and installing apps downloaded from other places is simple and easy.

I mean I get it's really hard to establish yourself as an alternative because the google play store is the default store pre-installed on all android devices and 99% of people won't bother looking for and downloading an alternative. But it's still not as restrictive as iOs.

Android will let you side load stuff. Apple is extremely restrictive with their OS.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

What I am trying to figure out is how they lose apple and win google. They seem like the same case.

Google had two main problems (that Apple did not have)

• It was confirmed that they actually pay the companies not to create other stores
• They delete their conversation history

Both of that (especially the second) did not do them any favors and contributed to this loss.

 

[calistan]

I think they're going to try to get at Apple a second time, if this should stick in Court.

Apple was a judge's verdict, and they also lost an appeal, so that is basically done in the US unless any new evidence comes to light. This was a jury, which is 12 bored people who probably wanted to be out of there as quickly as possible - hence a unanimous verdict in a couple of hours. Google said it's appealing anyway.

I hope Epic applies the same principles as they expect from Google, and gives me an alternative store where I can purchase Alan Wake 2 and Dead Island 2 - I'd have bought both of those by now if they hadn't been locked up by Epic.

 

[Embearded]

Why are we using a jury for such cases?
Did they come from a related field?

 

[Spyxos]

Can someone explain to me why Epic won against Google but lost to Apple, who do exactly the same thing?

 

[poppabk]

Can someone explain to me why Epic won against Google but lost to Apple, who do exactly the same thing?

Jury versus judge

 

[Spyxos]

Jury versus judge

I am not familiar with the American court system. What are the differences? Judge somehow sounds more important. We don't have jury around here.