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Fighting Games Weekly | June 10-16 | We got new fighting games! And a new Smash Bros!

S

SloaneRisette

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";63754396]WHOA. You just gave me a good idea ^_^[/QUOTE]

You should have all of FGC-GAF be testers for this game.

#BanTheTesters
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
Parallax Scroll said:
I question the integrity of a paid consultant for a game who immediately slams it online. I'll put more trust in what the other guys say.
Click to expand...
Why? Day 1 enthusiasm is more legit than day 30 cynicism? We'll see how the game is when it comes out, but it's more likely than not to be a non-factor in the genre due to both the platform and a variety of other factors. It might be SFxT all over again.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";63754396]WHOA. You just gave me a good idea ^_^[/QUOTE]

But they've already made ST!
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
call_kotaku said:
Why? Day 1 enthusiasm is more legit than day 30 cynicism? We'll see how the game is when it comes out, but it's more likely than not to be a non-factor in the genre due to both the platform and a variety of other factors. It might be SFxT all over again.
Click to expand...

Because it's unprofessional to take a paid gig with someone and then talk shit about their product afterwards. It makes me think he didn't take the job seriously in the first place.
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
Parallax Scroll said:
Because it's unprofessional to take a paid gig with someone and then talk shit about their product afterwards. It makes me think he didn't take the job seriously in the first place.
Click to expand...

That's sort of silly since he still objectively knows more about the game than anyone else who gave impressions, just dismissing them based on what you think of him personally is pretty textbook ad hominem. It's like saying I'm going to disregard everything Art or Max or Justin ever says about fighting games because they were crazy supportive of SFxT before release. MikeZ also didn't break NDA, since I don't think this was recent, and he didn't exactly go out of his way to bash the game, but yes the "no comment" answer should've sufficed.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
E

Edgeward

Member
Now that I have a bigger memory card I can play BB:CS SEX. But isn't this the bad update/version?

And no beef, don't take the low hanging fruit
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
call_kotaku said:
That's sort of silly since he still objectively knows more about the game than anyone else who gave impressions, just dismissing them based on what you think of him personally is pretty textbook ad hominem. It's like saying I'm going to disregard everything Art or Max or Justin ever says about fighting games because they were crazy supportive of SFxT before release. MikeZ also didn't break NDA, since I don't think this was recent, and he didn't exactly go out of his way to bash the game, but yes the "no comment" answer should've sufficed.
Click to expand...
Your original post certainly didn't help things. I went back to listen to the KI segment and he said some of them have made fighting games and definitely didn't call it straight out "broken". He definitely feels it's probably got some bad mechanics, though.

Also, you neglected to mention positive talk. He said more people playing KI would mean more people playing fighting games and that is good for the scene regardless of the game choice.

Edit:
"No comment" should die in a fire. This ultra secretive PR nonsense is the exact kind of talk that has plagued the industry in the first place. It's one of the reasons why indies and outspoken developers have gained more notoriety as of late. No one wants to be treated like an idiot.
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
SolarPowered said:
Your original post certainly didn't help things. I went back to listen to the KI segment and he said some of them have made fighting games and definitely didn't call it straight out "broken". He definitely feels it's probably got some bad mechanics, though.

Also, you neglected to mention positive talk. He said more people playing KI would mean more people playing fighting games and that is good for the scene regardless of the game choice.

Edit:
"No comment" should die in a fire. This ultra secretive PR nonsense is the exact kind of talk that has plagued the industry in the first place. It's one of the reasons why indies and outspoken developers have gained more notoriety as of late. No one wants to be treated like an idiot.
Click to expand...

Yeah I just really quickly wrote down the highlights, I didn't think people would just read my post and not bother listening to the source material.

"No comment" is the only "professional" way he could've conducted himself if he knew the game wasn't up to snuff, because he's not a paid mouthpiece or PR man and shouldn't be expected (or encouraged) to be deceptive. That said it's not like he was proclaiming it from a mountaintop or making the rounds on social media, he simply answered a question from stream chat.

The whole thing has me curious about how a mechanically faulty or non-competitive fighting games would be for the genre in today's environment, though I guess it didn't really affect MKvsDC.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Tear me up Kevo. I think I only won 3 of like 25.

call_kotaku said:
Yeah I just really quickly wrote down the highlights, I didn't think people would just read my post and not bother listening to the source material.

"No comment" is the only "professional" way he could've conducted himself if he knew the game wasn't up to snuff, because he's not a paid mouthpiece or PR man and shouldn't be expected (or encouraged) to be deceptive. That said it's not like he was proclaiming it from a mountaintop or making the rounds on social media, he simply answered a question from stream chat.

The whole thing has me curious about how a mechanically faulty or non-competitive fighting games would be for the genre in today's environment, though I guess it didn't really affect MKvsDC.
Click to expand...
You're on a web forum with a name referencing Kotaku. I don't believe you!
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
call_kotaku said:
The whole thing has me curious about how a mechanically faulty or non-competitive fighting games would be for the genre in today's environment, though I guess it didn't really affect MKvsDC.
Click to expand...
Injustice is doing pretty good for itself while maintaining silly shit like one-side only level transitions and interactables. NRS have been making a killing at this for a minute now.

As for mechanically faulty, I think an argument could be made for most fighting games are today. UMvC3 is probably the biggest game with the most problematic mechanics with TACs.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
enzo_gt said:
Injustice is doing pretty good for itself while maintaining silly shit like one-side only level transitions and interactables. NRS have been making a killing at this for a minute now.

As for mechanically faulty, I think an argument could be made for most fighting games are today. UMvC3 is probably the biggest game with the most problematic mechanics with TACs.
Click to expand...
Don't all of the top fighting games have major problems?
Marvel has TACs.
Street Fighter has unblockables.
Injustice has transitions/interactables.
Tekken is 3D.
SFxT has gems.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
call_kotaku said:
Yeah I just really quickly wrote down the highlights, I didn't think people would just read my post and not bother listening to the source material.

"No comment" is the only "professional" way he could've conducted himself if he knew the game wasn't up to snuff, because he's not a paid mouthpiece or PR man and shouldn't be expected (or encouraged) to be deceptive. That said it's not like he was proclaiming it from a mountaintop or making the rounds on social media, he simply answered a question from stream chat.

The whole thing has me curious about how a mechanically faulty or non-competitive fighting games would be for the genre in today's environment, though I guess it didn't really affect MKvsDC.
Click to expand...
Reasonable reponse except the bit in bold. This is GAF, dude. Most of us can barely check OPs and those usually take less than a minute to read. Most of us will take your post as a straight quote lol.

About the PR. Yeah, I really couldn't care less about being "professional" if game devs can be honest and respectful when talking about a game's shortcomings. It helps if they actually know what they hell they're talking about, though. I could live without the talk about current games because people can't handle criticism well regardless of whether or not it is valid/informed.
Karsticles said:
Don't all of the top fighting games have major problems?
Marvel has TACs.
Street Fighter has unblockables.
Injustice has transitions/interactables.
Tekken is 3D.
SFxT has gems.
Click to expand...
Yep

Vanilla Skullgirls had Eldritch buttslams
MK9... well, that game had a lot of problems that required a lot of patching
BlazBlue just kept getting worse and worse until Phantasma hit lol
 
K

kevo_huevo

Member
Karsticles said:
Tear me up Kevo. I think I only won 3 of like 25.
Click to expand...

actually you've improved quite a bit since the last time we played.

a couple things:
sweep really unsafe and i can mash inbetween the two kicks.
when you get me in the corner, i would stay midscreen to 3/4 away at most. control the space and you can utilize guiles gdlk anti airs and pokes.
you started like 80% of the rounds with a sonic boom lol
try to option select crouch tech a bit more, i was landing quite a few tick throws.

really though, you've got a lot of good fundamentals to build on, considering this is just a side game for you. a lot about sf is just learning the matchups (dat deejay vortex), and with guile you don't have to rely too heavily on combos. you can definitely punish with cr.mp xx ex flashkick, i wouldnt worry too much about learning links. honestly crossup lk > cr.lk cr.lk cr.lk is good enough.

i had fun. it was nice to practice my deejay and bipson.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
SolarPowered said:
Vanilla Skullgirls had Eldritch buttslams
MK9... well, that game had a lot of problems that required a lot of patching
BlazBlue just kept getting worse and worse until Phantasma hit lol
Click to expand...
I said top fighting games. :p You know I love Skullgirls, but let's not kid ourselves.

kevo_huevo said:
actually you've improved quite a bit since the last time we played.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

a couple things:
sweep really unsafe and i can mash inbetween the two kicks.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know this, I just do it out of bad habit. I hit you a lot with the second kick, though! Haha.

when you get me in the corner, i would stay midscreen to 3/4 away at most. control the space and you can utilize guiles gdlk anti airs and pokes.
Click to expand...
I really need to work on this. The reversals scare me so much that I'm not aggressive enough.

you started like 80% of the rounds with a sonic boom lol
Click to expand...
Hey, why not right? It never bit me in the ass.

try to option select crouch tech a bit more, i was landing quite a few tick throws.
Click to expand...
What's this?

really though, you've got a lot of good fundamentals to build on, considering this is just a side game for you. a lot about sf is just learning the matchups (dat deejay vortex), and with guile you don't have to rely too heavily on combos. you can definitely punish with cr.mp xx ex flashkick, i wouldnt worry too much about learning links. honestly crossup lk > cr.lk cr.lk cr.lk is good enough.
Click to expand...
Once I started going for the crossup LK, I started doing a lot better. Too much zoning, not enough rushdown, I guess. I'm trying to find the right balance between those. And I know no matchups at all, so that's not good.

i had fun. it was nice to practice my deejay and bipson.
Click to expand...
I started to get frustrated because goddamn, this game does not properly convey jump-ins visually. The character rarely looks like he/she will land where he/she does. I'm just going to start assuming that everything crosses up. :p And flash kick should auto-correct, damn it!
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Karsticles said:
Don't all of the top fighting games have major problems?
Marvel has TACs.
Street Fighter has unblockables.
Injustice has transitions/interactables.
Tekken is 3D.
SFxT has gems.
Click to expand...
Yup. Folks overrate balance in pretty much every regard when it comes to assessing sales potential or appeal too. One of the lesser important things when making a fighting game.

Oh and unblockables definitely sterilized SF much more than TACs somehow. Just amplifies Matchup Fighter 4 into something worse.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
enzo_gt said:
Yup. Folks overrate balance in pretty much every regard when it comes to assessing sales potential or appeal too. One of the lesser important things when making a fighting game.

Oh and unblockables definitely sterilized SF much more than TACs somehow. Jjust amplifies Matchup Fighter 4 into something worse.
Click to expand...
Clockw0rk once said the primary factor in a FG's success is playability. I like that thought.

SolarPowered said:
I missed that.

What I'm curious about is your metric for a "top" fighting game.
Click to expand...
I was going by current top tournament turnouts. I don't know why I put SFxT in there.
 
L

LordJim

Member
Karsticles said:
Don't all of the top fighting games have major problems?
Marvel has TACs.
Street Fighter has unblockables.
Injustice has transitions/interactables.
Tekken is 3D.
SFxT has gems.
Click to expand...

SFxT uses the presets, so for tourney play, it's a non-existent problem. It is usually the fighter with 4th highest turnout in majors too.
Also, poor 3D fighters cannot get a break ever
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Karsticles said:
Clockw0rk once said the primary factor in a FG's success is playability. I like that thought.

I was going by current top tournament turnouts. I don't know why I put SFxT in there.
Click to expand...
I think that's a good metric that sorta encompasses a lot. I'd use approachability as another way to say it.

Also SFxTK is still one of the more entered games, around or just below TTT2. More than anime games anyways.

LordJim said:
SFxT uses the presets, so for tourney play, it's a non-existent problem.
Also, poor 3d games cannot get a break ever
Click to expand...
It's more of a problem in the game design. The entire gem system was a squandered opportunity because of how it was implemented. SFxTK's mechanics in general are sort of a desperate attempt to differentiate the game from SF4 and Marvel. They really threw shit at the wall to see what'd stick and introduced stuff first and figured out how it'd work afterwards.
 
L

LordJim

Member
enzo_gt said:
SFxTK's mechanics in general are sort of a desperate attempt to differentiate the game from SF4 and Marvel. They really threw shit at the wall to see what'd stick and introduced stuff first and figured out how it'd work afterwards.
Click to expand...
Vanilla SFxT in general could be mostly described as 'no fucking finetuning'.
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
SolarPowered said:
Reasonable reponse except the bit in bold. This is GAF, dude. Most of us can barely check OPs and those usually take less than a minute to read. Most of us will take your post as a straight quote lol.

About the PR. Yeah, I really couldn't care less about being "professional" if game devs can be honest and respectful when talking about a game's shortcomings. It helps if they actually know what they hell they're talking about, though. I could live without the talk about current games because people can't handle criticism well regardless of whether or not it is valid/informed.
Click to expand...
I figured since he spoke on it for only around 5 minutes people wouldn't just take my word for it, but live and learn I guess.

Karsticles said:
Don't all of the top fighting games have major problems?
Marvel has TACs.
Street Fighter has unblockables.
Injustice has transitions/interactables.
Tekken is 3D.
SFxT has gems.
Click to expand...

I meant that the game is so busted that it's impossible to play it with any intention of winning, or only playable when purposely choosing not to leverage game knowledge, because of how the mechanics devolve. I don't mean stuff that's in the game which the developers didn't intend, which is basically every game. Sort of like the weird stuff in DOA but more extreme.

I'm just sort of curious how a game that's busted on the scale of the original KI would fare in today's environment. I don't know if people's expectations have changed or if a game actually needs to be functional at all levels of play. Like, how many block infinites is someone going to endure on a F2P online game?
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
ChrisG deserves the evo win. He picked a super cheap team that some people are calling the best team in the game. But no one can play the team anywhere near as well as he plays it.

Did anyone read the comic The Savage Dragon? It was an early Image comic.

ahTmW1q.jpg


The savage dragon was a cop who had a gun that only he could fire, because the recoil was so great.

That's ChrisG with his Morrigan team.
 
A

alstein

Member
call_kotaku said:
I'm just sort of curious how a game that's busted on the scale of the original KI would fare in today's environment. I don't know if people's expectations have changed or if a game actually needs to be functional at all levels of play. Like, how many block infinites is someone going to endure on a F2P online game?
Click to expand...

The kusoge-type games would flop. Unless they had Marvel in the title.

The more respectable games like 3S/CVS2 would be patched. Without patching they'd be dead really quickly as they're very broken by today's standards.

kirblar said:
Gives me the impression he gave his impressions/advice and was pretty much ignored.
Click to expand...

He might have felt he was asked in just so they say he consulted on it, that might be why he did what he did. A little different than the time Sirlin put Udon and Backbone on blast.
 
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