CrimsonSquall
Member
Tell me u havent played that game without telling me you havent played that gameFF 15
FF 16
Tell me u havent played that game without telling me you havent played that gameFF 15
FF 16
The character designer in FF16 is same as the ones did for FF14.
FF14
FF16
I personally really like the character designs so far.
I don’t hate Nomura’s design but I’m getting tired of every FF design by him. Also this character designs and art direction fits better for medieval fantasy compare to Nomura’s modern futuristic design.I cannot tell you how goddamn refreshing it is to see a Final Fantasy protagonist that doesn't like like a traditional edgy anime character. No overly stylize hair, no overdesigned outfit with 20 belts, no stupid name, no effeminate face, and no teenagers.
It says something about the series where playing a grown ass man with a common name and manly look is groundbreaking. As far as I'm concerned, even though this wasn't the intention, this is an apology for shoving in Vaan as the main character in FFXII when it was supposed to be a character a lot closer to what we see in Clive.
In what sense are they "copying" western franchises? This game looks wildly different from any major western RPG series in pretty much every respect.Except they're not taking risks. They're just copying what western franchises are doing without any thought at all.
And no, settling for anime aesthetics is by not means stopping innovation. If that was the case, I suppose Zelda is not innovating in your books?
My main issue is not with the visuals, to make that clear. I liked the more semi-realistic style of FF12 for that matter, and 16 character design is not bad aside from some questionable emo haircut choices.
Square-Enix execs want more money, and for that they have to appeal to the west.In what sense are they "copying" western franchises? This game looks wildly different from any major western RPG series in pretty much every respect.
The problem with the teenage anime FFs isn't the aesthetic, it's the adolescent storytelling.
I'd much rather Square Enix orient Final Fantasy towards western adults than towards Japanese middle schoolers. At least this way we might get a good game, which the series hasn't seen since 2006. What defined Final Fantasy was never a particular combat system, nor a particular setting, nor a particular quantum of "purity and innocence." Final Fantasy is not Dragon Quest. It has always been willing to experiment with its combat systems, setting, and narrative tone.Square-Enix execs want more money, and for that they have to appeal to the west.
Medieval dark fantasy becomes even more popular in the west with the success of The Witcher 3. Also, not dark fantasy, but medieval, Game of Thrones.
Turn-based won't sell as much. Ditch it.
Embrace action combat and make everything dark and edgy, and market it as "for adult and mature audiences".
"ooooh, yes, now we get gaijin money"
"oooooh now we mature and adult"
"wir u prease be excited and buy our game desu"
Final Fantasy died with Sakaguchi. He had a vision for the franchise.
You can see that in Lost Odyssey. There is some purity and innocence that Square-Enix can't grasp.
That is reserved for creatives only, not business people.
Kinda like Zelda and Miyamoto. He never needed to make Zelda "mature and edgy" in order to sell more.
You can argue that he was inspired by modern trends, but that's the key point -- inspired, not blindly copied without any regard for your own franchise's identity.
The spirit of Zelda is still intact. You can make it different without destroying the franchise's purity.
He knows that. Any good designer/director knows that.
I played my first FF game when I was about 10 years old. I'm now 32. So I'm quite happy the games are now pursuing mature and adult themes, as the fanbase has aged with the series. I lived and worked in Japan for several years and taught kids aged 6-16. They were all playing mobile games, a few Switch, but even then generally not narrative driven games. That market is now completely dead.Except they're not taking risks. They're just copying what western franchises are doing without any thought at all.
And no, settling for anime aesthetics is by not means stopping innovation. If that was the case, I suppose Zelda is not innovating in your books?
My main issue is not with the visuals, to make that clear. I liked the more semi-realistic style of FF12 for that matter, and 16 character design is not bad aside from some questionable emo haircut choices.
While still keeping its identity intact. It was *never* an edgy action RPG.
Same thing for Dragon Quest, all entries are different, but the overall identity and feel remains mostly intact (for now)
It was always tame and implied.
Nothing forced for the sake of looking "adult" and "mature" as it's being marketed for western audiences.
Because they have a deal with Sony. A legal contract. They can't just throw it in the trash.
Also, because it allows them to release the game again on other platforms and charge full release price a second time. Which is what happened with FF15 Windows edition.
I have nothing against their artists. They have a lot of talented people there.
My issue is with the people making decisions. Either they are hacks or they're powerless against their superiors that only care about their investors.
Since Final Fantasy 13 to be honest. It's not only this game.
The problem is not *only* the combat (although with this one it plays a big part in that), but also all the forced edginess to market it as "mature" for western audiences.
It's as if everything they've been doing during SquareSoft days is suddenly "wrong" and western RPG developers got it right.
They gave up on their product. They're not even trying anymore. Their focusing their efforts on western audiences and trends, and also on what types of games Playstations users play the most.
You say this affects only Final Fantasy, but they've even said they're also gonna make Dragon Quest "mature" and "adult" and also change its combat somewhat.
Yeah that's CGFF 15
FF 16
I don’t get the hate with artstyle, to me it’s art style gives me classic Final Fantasy look.I'd say it's on par but the art style makes it look worse then it is and kinda flat
Sakaguchi himself disagrees with you.Final Fantasy died with Sakaguchi. He had a vision for the franchise.
FFXV didn't happen. Not sure what you're talking about.I’m really liking visuals and characters design this time around, especially compare to what we got with FFXV.
Honestly it just sounds like FF has never been your thing or you’re just not really into it. Perhaps you’ve outgrown the franchise and that’s ok, but you keep shit piling on a game that looks better with each bit of information they have released. They have consistently shown us what the actual game looks like and for the first time in a long time (been playing Final fantasy since the original) this game is hitting all of the right notes.Square-Enix execs want more money, and for that they have to appeal to the west.
Medieval dark fantasy becomes even more popular in the west with the success of The Witcher 3. Also, not dark fantasy, but medieval, Game of Thrones.
Turn-based won't sell as much. Ditch it.
Embrace action combat and make everything dark and edgy, and market it as "for adult and mature audiences".
"ooooh, yes, now we get gaijin money"
"oooooh now we mature and adult"
"wir u prease be excited and buy our game desu"
Final Fantasy died with Sakaguchi. He had a vision for the franchise.
You can see that in Lost Odyssey. There is some purity and innocence that Square-Enix can't grasp.
That is reserved for creatives only, not business people.
Kinda like Zelda and Miyamoto. He never needed to make Zelda "mature and edgy" in order to sell more.
You can argue that he was inspired by modern trends, but that's the key point -- inspired, not blindly copied without any regard for your own franchise's identity.
The spirit of Zelda is still intact. You can make it different without destroying the franchise's purity.
He knows that. Any good designer/director knows that.
I was just reminiscing about FF6 and how its characters act like grown ass adults with functioning brains instead of chatty anime tropes. They didn’t feel the need to cram in some teenage “strong sense of justice” relatable self-insert character. (Although TBH I didn’t mind Vaan so much)It says something about the series where playing a grown ass man with a common name and manly look is groundbreaking. As far as I'm concerned, even though this wasn't the intention, this is an apology for shoving in Vaan as the main character in FFXII when it was supposed to be a character a lot closer to what we see in Clive.
Gooch loves FF14.Sakaguchi himself disagrees with you.
Sakaguchi is obsessed with Creative Business Unit 3 and has been hanging out with Yoshida a LOT. Sorry man, but you are completely out of touch.
Yeah, I follow his Twitter account and he is just outright obsessed. Dude’s living his best life right now.Gooch loves FF14.
Ultimately all business care is money and growth, even if some seem to value a creative vision that you appreciates it is because they think that is going to make more money than going otherwise.Square-Enix execs want more money, and for that they have to appeal to the west.
Medieval dark fantasy becomes even more popular in the west with the success of The Witcher 3. Also, not dark fantasy, but medieval, Game of Thrones.
Turn-based won't sell as much. Ditch it.
Embrace action combat and make everything dark and edgy, and market it as "for adult and mature audiences".
"ooooh, yes, now we get gaijin money"
"oooooh now we mature and adult"
"wir u prease be excited and buy our game desu"
Final Fantasy died with Sakaguchi. He had a vision for the franchise.
You can see that in Lost Odyssey. There is some purity and innocence that Square-Enix can't grasp.
That is reserved for creatives only, not business people.
Kinda like Zelda and Miyamoto. He never needed to make Zelda "mature and edgy" in order to sell more.
You can argue that he was inspired by modern trends, but that's the key point -- inspired, not blindly copied without any regard for your own franchise's identity.
The spirit of Zelda is still intact. You can make it different without destroying the franchise's purity.
He knows that. Any good designer/director knows that.
You mean Medieval?I don’t get the hate with artstyle, to me it’s art style gives me classic Final Fantasy look.
To me it’s seems people are just too used to Nomura’s designs.
Nice to see the Gooch is on better terms with the company now. Probably because Yoichi Wada is out of the picture. Would love to see him come back for one last project before he retires for good.Yeah, I follow his Twitter account and he is just outright obsessed. Dude’s living his best life right now.
Hopefully the dev team took some of his feedback seriously for the next expansion; biggest problem with the game right now is that there’s little reason to go back to old zones. Honestly, they should enable XP gain for replaying storymode content, at least at a reduced amount so there’s at least a bit of carrot on the stick. You’d see a lot more people roaming through all the different regions, I think. This would line up perfectly with the graphics revamp, since I know I plan on replaying the entire story from the beginning when it hits.
Oh I almost forgot that… I would like to go back to it on my PS5 !!!This would line up perfectly with the graphics revamp
To me it’s seems people are just too used to Nomura’s designs.
A simple remake or an abomination like 7?FF9 is getting a remake!
We can have them both.
It’s funny you mention this. I remember when FFXI was announced, and JRPG enthusiasts of that era proclaimed that the game looked too western. That Sakaguchi had lost touch with what audiences wanted. They judged the book by its cover.what funnier is they even said stuff like how the only Sakaguchi is the right man for the game but they definitely didnt aware how how his FF looks like back in the day.
even when we look back at jrpg history, western actualy play huge influence to them. Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest for example has huge influence from Dungeon and Dragon, Wizardy and Ultima which is where creator like Yuji Hori and Hironobu Sakaguchi draw inspiration from. it is funny that fans vocally want the series to return to its root but at same time they actually doesnt aware of what the 'roots' is exactly like at first place.It’s funny you mention this. I remember when FFXI was announced, and JRPG enthusiasts of that era proclaimed that the game looked too western. That Sakaguchi had lost touch with what audiences wanted. They judged the book by its cover.
With the Spirits Within movie bombing and FFXI not being a multimillion seller at launch, Square axed Sakaguchi. The irony is that Spirits Within is the reason why Visual Works is in the league they’re in when it comes to cutscene quality, and prior to FFXIV, FFXI ended up being Square Enix’s most profitable Final Fantasy of all time. Funny, how FFXI is commented about in a favorable way these days.
Calling FFXVI an edgy western Game of Thrones wannabe is such a superficial, might I say dumb take on what FFXVI is going for. It’s needlessly cynical. If anything, the game takes clear inspiration from Final Fantasy Tactics, especially given CBU3’s history. The darker themes, emphasis on multiple warring kingdoms in a complex setting with characters caught in between, delivering a medieval fantasy morality tale… even the art director Hiroshi Minagawa is the same!
Sakaguchi famously said that FFIX was his favourite FF. (And Tactics was him building his own personal dream team)CBU3 (Yoshida) will focus on creating on classical FF worlds, FF6, FF9, FF12, FF14.
Gonna try and resist and stick to the base game.the steelbook looks really nice
Except they are really bad at it. Do you really think "adult" and "mature" when you see the FF16 trailer? Dude with emo hair throwing a tantrum on screen all the time?I'd much rather Square Enix orient Final Fantasy towards western adults than towards Japanese middle schoolers
If that was a parameter for quality, then all Nintendo games would suck balls and sales would bomb.At least this way we might get a good game, which the series hasn't seen since 2006.
Ohh, combat was never action oriented though. Which was my point. Different, but the same.What defined Final Fantasy was never a particular combat system, nor a particular setting, nor a particular quantum of "purity and innocence." Final Fantasy is not Dragon Quest. It has always been willing to experiment with its combat systems, setting, and narrative tone.
It was never aimed at children, I have no idea why you think that way. I have no idea why you care so much about it though.Not every series needs to be aimed at children. Sakaguchi's chosen successor to helm FF was Yasumi Matsuno, whose games are notably mature and thematically dark - and Yoshida clearly idolizes Matsuno. Final Fantasy should have grown and matured with its audience instead of remaining trapped in the perpetual adolescence of Yoichi Wada's Square Enix. Better late than never.
Jesus, do you REALLY believe a game needs a narrative to be compelling for adults for it to be successfull? Guess Mario shouldn't be a success then!Nobody has played Zelda for the story in a very long time, and everyone agrees that the story is Breath of the Wild's worst aspect. People play FF for the story, you need to release a game with a narrative that's compelling to actual adults for it to be successful.
You guys keep repeating the same "mature" crap, as if that never happened in past Final Fantasies.I played my first FF game when I was about 10 years old. I'm now 32. So I'm quite happy the games are now pursuing mature and adult themes, as the fanbase has aged with the series. I lived and worked in Japan for several years and taught kids aged 6-16. They were all playing mobile games, a few Switch, but even then generally not narrative driven games. That market is now completely dead.
Kids and teens in the West now tend to gravitate towards online games like Fortnite and Minecraft.
Ultimately it sounds like FF and soon DQ won't be for you anymore as they look to cater to many of their existing fans who have matured with the series and also appeal to new ones, so you may as well move on and play some different games.
It's important to realize that it's possible to keep a balance between both.Ultimately all business care is money and growth, even if some seem to value a creative vision that you appreciates it is because they think that is going to make more money than going otherwise.
If hypothetically R18 anime hentai is going to give results and double a business' profit + growth without consequence all big players in the industry are going to make them.
This game gonna be phenomenal
I was just reminiscing about FF6 and how its characters act like grown ass adults with functioning brains instead of chatty anime tropes. They didn’t feel the need to cram in some teenage “strong sense of justice” relatable self-insert character. (Although TBH I didn’t mind Vaan so much)
I've come to appreciate FF12 alot over the years. The opening movie is also quite stunning and I didn't appreciate it at the time.There was nothing wrong with Vaan. He simply didn't have much plot after the first few hours in the game, but I think most criticism was aimed at his design. He didn't whine much, yeah, he was rightfully pissed off a the world because his brother was killed by politics. But there were some things about him I appreciated, he lashed out at Basch, which makes sense as he looks identical to the killer and was framed at first. But Vaan eventually dropped that grudge. Then he also dropped his cliche I wanna be a sky pirate act, as it was simply an excuse for him to escape reality.
I think what worked is that he was the spectator we controlled in towns, the actual leads (like Ashe) were viewed from his POV. It was something different. You could completely drop him from the party if desired.
I think Vaan was one of the best FF leads, if you can call him a lead. Because he wasn't a typical anime daddy issues kid. FFXII is my favourite FF and while I can see its issues with story and character building tacking a back seat later on, it wasn't a boring mess of stupid anime dialogues.
I've come to appreciate FF12 alot over the years. The opening movie is also quite stunning and I didn't appreciate it at the time.
Yeah I thought he was decent. He has a good reason to hate the empire. He has nothing to lose. He has the balls to sneak in to the palace and steal the Sun stone out from under Vayne’s nose just out of spite. It makes sense why someone like Balthier would see his potential and take him along. And he also serves to remindAshe and Basch of what they’re fighting for.There was nothing wrong with Vaan. He simply didn't have much plot after the first few hours in the game, but I think most criticism was aimed at his design. He didn't whine much, yeah, he was rightfully pissed off a the world because his brother was killed by politics. But there were some things about him I appreciated, he lashed out at Basch, which makes sense as he looks identical to the killer and was framed at first. But Vaan eventually dropped that grudge. Then he also dropped his cliche I wanna be a sky pirate act, as it was simply an excuse for him to escape reality.
I think what worked is that he was the spectator we controlled in towns, the actual leads (like Ashe) were viewed from his POV. It was something different. You could completely drop him from the party if desired.
I think Vaan was one of the best FF leads, if you can call him a lead. Because he wasn't a typical anime daddy issues kid. FFXII is my favourite FF and while I can see its issues with story and character building tacking a back seat later on, it wasn't a boring mess of stupid anime dialogues.
I think this my third time seeing trailers from this videogame and I agree. The level of detail is bad.Some stuff look cool, and I don't have anything against the game itself, it might end up really good, but I'm always super confused by people impressions on the graphics.
I don't see what's so amazing about it, but like, at all, I think that even FF XV looked better, so it's quite confusing when people talk about how fantastic the graphics are.
Again, that's not necesarily a problem, the game can be great without insane graphics, but it's just something that confuses me because it seems like I'm not seeing the same game as others somehow.
But for all that, Vaan is…. Kinda bland, and not the kind of character I get excited about playing as in a video game. Can’t help but wonder what XII could’ve been like if they hadn’t crammed him and Penelo into it.