Buggy Loop
Member
No date is a problem. Again, peoples waited a long time too for FSR 3 and they delayed even beyond their tentative quarter.
And he says he'll cover it.
What's the problem?
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FSR…how it’s falling behind the others upscale tech.
- Thread starter OverHeat
- Start date
No date is a problem. Again, peoples waited a long time too for FSR 3 and they delayed even beyond their tentative quarter.
And he says he'll cover it.
What's the problem?
Wasn't that for the AI version? I heard rumblings of May/June for 3.1 patches to be done to games in PC.
Considering one of the complaints people on GAF usually have with DF is that they milk certain subjects it feels like this one could've been cooking longer, if 3.1 does drop next month they could've done a more detailed and longer video covering the improvements in all of them instead of this oddly short gloss over.
CamHostage
Member
Ah, that makes sense now where you're getting the idea of an intentional spurning here, since were working off rumors that FSR 3.1 will be out "within a few weeks"...
AMD's announcement said, "AMD FSR 3.1 will be available for developers on GPUOpen in Q2 and will be coming to games later this year. "(Similarly, they listed Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart's FSR 3.1 inclusion "in a game update coming in later this year.") We haven't even gotten to the point yet that it's in the SDK for developers to use, much less having games available to play and test it with. "Later in the year" could technically mean May/June (it's what Q2 means, assuming they're not going by financial calendars, and also assuming it doesn't get delayed,) so I guess we could be surprised with a release sooner than later, but indications are that FSR 3.1 is still a ways away.
AMD FSR 3.1 Announced at GDC 2024, FSR 3 Available and Upcoming in 40 Games
Last September, we unleashed AMD FidelityFX™ Super Resolution 3 (FSR 3)1 on the gaming world, delivering massive FPS improvements in supported games. AMD FSR 3 is the latest version of our cutting-edge open upscaling technology – adding advanced frame generation technology for significant...
Also, unlike DLSS and XeSS, FSR does not allow you to hack the DLL and swap out the officially supported upscaler for the newest release. (...Yet? 3.1 might change that.) The only game officially listed as supporting FSR 3.1 is R&C Rift Apart. (And this is despite the fact that 3.1 was announced in an event co-hosted with Massive to showcase Snowdrop, so I'm not sure what the delay is for adding Avatar to the list or announcing it'll be in Star Wars Outlaw, assuming that's the plan?) FSR 3.0 only has about 20 games officially supporting it, with another dozen+ more announced for it but still un-updated after the 3.0 launch back in September. So the comparison range may end up being slim even when 3.1 does launch.
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Shit if that's true what are they waiting on? The AI stuff yeah since it's a whole different model but the 3.1 update seemed like it was due out a lot sooner.
Buggy Loop
Member
Intel stole (hired) Nvidia's DLSS guru in 2021 btw, Anton Kaplanyan.
www.digitaltrends.com
Can maybe explains their leap in XeSS. Intel just has way more potential money in R&D than AMD. If they just don't drop their hands, they have a chance at #2.
Mastermind Behind Nvidia RTX DLSS Just Got Hired By Intel | Digital Trends
Intel isn't slowing down in the graphics department, and a recent key hire shows a bright future for the division.
www.digitaltrends.com
Can maybe explains their leap in XeSS. Intel just has way more potential money in R&D than AMD. If they just don't drop their hands, they have a chance at #2.
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DeaconOfTheDank
Member
Puscifer
Member
Also despite the stupid "haha" reacts from people here when you say this, but often DLSS upscaling can look better than native which is shocking to say the least.
alucard0712_rus
Member
Why you bashing FSR if it's not using any AI which is the very reason why DLSS is so good? FSR is great on Switch or in VR space for example. Better than other techs by far.
Comparison of FSR with any other non-AI anti-aliasing methods (FXAA, SMAA, TAA or TSR) will be more appropriate.
Comparison of FSR with any other non-AI anti-aliasing methods (FXAA, SMAA, TAA or TSR) will be more appropriate.
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Leonidas
Member
XeSS 1.2 with DP4A (non-AI) has better image quality than FSR2.
AMD should be ashamed, losing even when no-AI cores are used.
alucard0712_rus
Member
And it's slower? What's the overhead?
Leonidas
Member
Glad that all my GPUs since 2018 have allowed me to use my GPUs AI cores for upscaling
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FingerBang
Member
Digital Foundry has announced it will cover FSR 3.1 as soon as it lands. I would understand you being upset if this were DLSS 3.7 vs. FSR2, but it's not. It's a comparison between 3 different technologies that do the same thing. We don't have a date for FSR 3.1.
This is not a DF problem but an AMD problem. Hardware Unboxed has made similar videos, too. AMD should not be defended for doing the bare minimum and then absolutely nothing for 1.5 years. Nvidia gets a lot of shit for being greedy and overpriced and killing the market, but fuck, they deliver. Even Intel, with a nonexistent market, keeps delivering on its tech.
Darkness_Arises
Member
I tried FSR 2 for the first time on R&C Rift Apart on the Steam Deck and it is probably the worst IQ I have ever experienced. I went back to Insomniac's temporal injection that produces a stable slightly blurry image, not covered in dithering artifacts. AMD needs to move quick in this space towards a competent solution.
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Yeah sadly I was under the impression that 3.1 would be out very soon and it's the AI FSR that's coming later this year but to find out it's both is a bit of a slow move especially when they've shown off 3.1 already so what's taking them so long to get it out?
They're killing it in the CPU space, it'd be nice to see some of that fire in their open source research teams.
FingerBang
Member
AMD plays it safe. They're killing it in the CPU space, but you can bet they're holding back since their competition doesn't seem to get their shit together.
In the GPU department, they don't intend to disrupt the market, and the 7000 series proved that. The terrible naming convention (seriously, 7900xtx, 7900xt, and 7800xt now using N32?), the pricing, and the copy-paste of technologies show they have no intention of being market leaders and are happy to follow. After all, they have guaranteed income from putting their chips in basically everything, from consoles to cars. Let's not forget the AI craze. If anything disruptive comes out of them, it will be a side-effect of all they do outside of gaming, not because they care.
mrcroket
Member
DP4A IS AI-powered but with a less accurate model using shader cores.
winjer
Gold Member
Truth be told, it's kinda of the opposite.
In PD4A mode, XeSS runs in 16 bit precision mode. So it's more accurate, but it's also a lot slower.
IN XMX mode, it will run in lower precision modes, like int8 and int4.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I just want all three to be good so we don't have anymore stupid functional monopolies.
mrcroket
Member
Maybe I'm wrong but if I remember correctly, intel used the XeSS model in 24bit integer PD4A to "emulate" the AI model, which doesn't need as much precision. Which forces Intel to make a less "accurate" (or more simplified) AI model for the PD4A model, so that performance doesn't go down the drain as opposed to using XMX, where you have dedicated AI processing units (less accurate but more suited to the task).
winjer
Gold Member
Why would an AI model use 24bit precision.
That is a waste of resources. Even DLSS is using 4 and 8 bit precision.
mrcroket
Member
Not the AI model but the gpu.
"Editors are claiming the XeSS DP4a is not designed to support all graphics cards but are instead emulated with 24-bit integers."
https://www.epicdope.com/check-out-intel-s-xess-dp4a-performance-on-amd-nvidia-gpus/
Kenpachii
Member
Reason why people on PC always moved to Nvidia even if the gpu's are inferior towards what AMD offers in performance/price for the simple reason software just works and gets updated all the time to stay valid.
AMD is notorious in supporting stuff way to late when it doesn't matter anymore, or just dropping it and never looking at it anymore. It's always "future" with them.
Hell i bet sony got so frustrated themselves they decided to just make there own version with there new playstation, i bet the new AI fsr is going to be a copy of sony's effort lol but worse somehow.
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winjer
Gold Member
The SDK for XeSSS says it's using FP16 in the DP4A mode.
mrcroket
Member
Well, that makes sense.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Input resolutions.
By less accurate I assumed he meant the model was less complex, so had fewer parameters, not that the precision of the inference was lower. See page 9 of the below slides:
winjer
Gold Member
The term would not be less accurate, since FP16 is more accurate than Int8 or Int4.
Rather, with fewer neuros, inputs, biases. So fewer calculations per pixel.
The curious thing, is that RDNA2 does support FP16, but also UINT8 and 4.
So when AMD does release FSR with ML, it will probably run better than the DP4A version if XeSS.
Isn't it? The thumbnail of the video says it is.
They both released on the same day I believe, sites just covered XeSS a day late.
The updates were definitely worth a look but I simply think the "vs" framing of the video is uncalled for. It would be like doing a "PS4 vs XB1 vs Wii" video with nintendos next machine just around the corner. Even if the next update isn't the best in the world they could have covered the other two updates without trying to pit them against the old version just yet like this:
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FingerBang
Member
I don't think their software support is bad. They are at least better than they used to be and FSR 3 is a solid alternative to DLSS3 that doesn't require specific hardware. It just pisses me off they have been reactive more than proactive. They seem to simply have not interest in beating the competition
There's XeSS as well; it's a three-way comparison since the other two have been updated.
So what you were saying is that you see an issue if it was "DLSS 3.7 vs FSR2" but not "DLSS 3.7 vs XeSS 1.3 vs FSR2". Not sure I follow but Ok, it's not a big deal.
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MrTroubleMaker
Member
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The "vs." in the title is for clickbait. The video is just comparing the three technologies in some scenes where improvements have been made.
It has a chart in the vid too but yeah. That clickbait has caused this thread disparaging FSR as way behind in upscale tech (based on old FSR2) even though FSR3 is releasing soon enough.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
You already knew about manually forcing preset e?
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Shadowstar39
Member
Yep. I'll say it again, this gen isn't ready for 4k. Shit we couldn't do 1080p 60 for most of last gen (only in the start with some AAA and indies was that a thing in the ps4/bone era).
Games still look gorgeous at 1080p. If rendered at 1440p and down-sampled they look real sharp, but so does a good AA method at 1080p.
We also don't have the storage reqs for large libraries of games using 4k assets. Seriously it should of been 1080p /1440p with 60fps, upscaled to 4k for those who have the hardware. Instead they go 4k with 30 or lower fps.
Why - to sell monitors and TVs.
Doing this means they don't push graphics as hard. If we were at 1080p or 1440p there would be way more leeway for more graphic effects and less performance issues.
Just my 2cents. 4k wasn't ready should of been 1440p and next gen 4k.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Preset E was released like a week ago and is the new default for any games that have come out in that space.
What games did you change the Preset to E for?
Any games that released before Preset E that didnt get an update would still be defaulting to Preset D or C for quality.
Do you scour the dlls and do back and forth checks every time a new DLL is released?
<--Just plugs in new DLLs whenever they come out without actually checking what they are doing, literally never forced a preset manually, so now I know.
Only manual editing ive done is with DLSSTweaks to force DLAA in games that dont support it.
Leonidas
Member
New versions of DLSS and XeSS recently released so it was nice to see the changes, I also learned of the DLSS mod where you can force higher quality in games which don't have it in their options menu...