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[ByWatterson]

My guy, on planet do you live on where gamedev pays you $100K per month for an employee? Please let me know, I wanna move there. Lmao, cut that by x10, and even that is pushing it, and reserved for states like Cali, NY, WA and WADC. The avg median gamedev salary is $115K in the US.

By your "low-balling it" corrected (it's not) estimates, that $1 million per month per studio with 100 devs, $23 million per month for 23 studios (spread worldwide, without counting in different economies, inflation, avg median income and other factors), and $276 million a year on dev salary costs alone of all their first party.

That rough estimate (not even close to accurate) is very possible for Microsoft, for decades even.

LOL! 230,000,000 per YEAR!

MY BAD. Huge error.

Obviously not that much. However, given how much TLOU and similar games cost, I'd say that low ball of mine is very low. 343, for instance, has at least 300-400 employees.

Anyway, bottom line, if Gamepass was very profitable (not just "sustainable," whatever that means), they'd tell investors. They haven't, so I'm convinced it isn't.

 

[Chukhopops]

Pretty impressive numbers considering the amount of consoles sold.

If MS can really match or get close to the total sub numbers of Sony while selling around half of their machines, then their strategy of pushing PC more has really worked.

I think the announced objective of 1BN from subs per quarter is possible considering how it was a year and a half ago.

 

[FireFly]

Anyway, bottom line, if Gamepass was very profitable (not just "sustainable," whatever that means), they'd tell investors. They haven't, so I'm convinced it isn't.

Your original claim was that: "There's like literally zero chance this is turning a profit right now".

Game Pass isn't expected to be "very profitable" right now because they are funnelling profits into growth. (Which yes, we haven't really seen as of yet)

 

[ByWatterson]

Your original claim was that: "There's like literally zero chance this is turning a profit right now".

Game Pass isn't expected to be "very profitable" right now because they are funelling profits into growth. (Which yes, we haven't really seen as of yet)

Yeah obviously my "zero chance" was based on a huge and awful miscalculation.

So it's possible that there is some profit in some quarters, but recent price increases (and frankly, very significant declines in high-profile, expensive new Gamepass releases) tell me there just isn't enough money coming in.

And hardware sales are declining in many territories this year - there isn't a lot of evidence Gamepass brings in new gamers. Starfield might, but that's a title, not a service.

More broadly, is there any streaming service that is really bringing in lots of profit? I guess Netflix?

 

[Solidsnake_1]

 

[bender]

 

[Gavon West]

LOL! 230,000,000 per YEAR!

MY BAD. Huge error.

Obviously not that much. However, given how much TLOU and similar games cost, I'd say that low ball of mine is very low. 343, for instance, has at least 300-400 employees.

Anyway, bottom line, if Gamepass was very profitable (not just "sustainable," whatever that means), they'd tell investors. They haven't, so I'm convinced it isn't.

Tell me you know fuck all about business without telling me you know fuck all about business....Jesus.

Its not only sustainable but it has to be profitable, too. Investors don't continue to invest in anything but. We know this to be true because GP still exists. You're trying too hard my dude. Plus you aren't factoring in game sells, DLC, skins etc. $230 million a month are incredible numbers. This isnt even factoring in PCGP.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

If MS can really match or get close to the total sub numbers of Sony while selling around half of their machines, then their strategy of pushing PC more has really worked.

If we include Gold and GPU, then their combined 35m of subscribers is a high percentage in comparison to sold consoles. PS+ had like around 50m which is a smaller percentage in comparison to amount of consoles old.

 

[balls of snow]

FTC forgot to redact all this from the ABK case.

'Forgot'

 

[DaGwaphics]

GP isn't free? Everyone isn't paying a $1!

It will be interesting to see how far they can grow the service once they can put forward a steady stream of first-party content, as these results are from a relatively sparse point in time. Specifically, when they can get content releasing throughout the year, that would help them with drop-in/out users if that is something they are seeing.

50m should be on the cards easily, between console and PC.

 

[Interfectum]

It's already a bloodbath. MS nearly giving games away for free and no one is buying Xbox and Game Pass is stagnant. Their only option is to buy enough companies to force people on Game Pass.

They can't go back, they've already devalued the fuck out of their platform so buying games is no longer an option. If GP doesn't work, Xbox is done.

 

[Sanepar]

Nearly $3 billion in revenue per year only on Xbox GP subs. I don't know their overhead, but those are still some crazy numbers.

It is not. You need to pay for games to be there. Revenue is not Profit.

 

[cebri.one]

i can't wait for their netflix moment and raises prices by 30% just to cover cost.

 

[MrTired]

I mea, just look at the ecosystem. Xbox sold less then 80 million consoles in two gens and they are raking 16+ billion in revenue per year

PlayStation sold 160 million consoles in two gens and they are at 25+ billion per year.

I guess they are able to extract more money per customer which is pretty funny since they have "no games."

Well that isn't true when Microsoft last Report said they have over 150 million active users in there ecosystem and yet as you said they generated 16 billion where Playstation reported 108 million active users and they generating 25 + billion. So on a per user basis Playstation is making more.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

It is not. You need to pay for games to be there. Revenue is not Profit.

I never said revenue was profit???

 

[StreetsofBeige]

LOL! 230,000,000 per YEAR!

MY BAD. Huge error.

Obviously not that much. However, given how much TLOU and similar games cost, I'd say that low ball of mine is very low. 343, for instance, has at least 300-400 employees.

Anyway, bottom line, if Gamepass was very profitable (not just "sustainable," whatever that means), they'd tell investors. They haven't, so I'm convinced it isn't.

And going your logic PS sub plans aren’t sustainable or profitable either. Sony stated that won’t be disclosing sub count anymore going forward.

Wow. Who knew Sony was losing huge money in sub plans.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It is not. You need to pay for games to be there. Revenue is not Profit.

Pretty sure MS can pay for anything when the company makes $60 billion profit per year. The overall company has the money not per division.

It’s like PS3 lost tons of money for Sony. Covered by other divisions as there’s one balance sheet.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Finally real numbers

Dat Disney+ flex.

 

[ByWatterson]

And going your logic PS sub plans aren’t sustainable or profitable either. Sony stated that won’t be disclosing sub count anymore going forward.

Wow. Who knew Sony was losing huge money in sub plans.

I mean it might not be! Which is probably why:

1. Sony doesn't put its first-party titles in there day-and-date. They need those game sales;
2. They rarely put anything in there day-and-date, so it's mostly exactly as advertised: a game catalog. Older titles getting a little extra revenue boost; and
3. They don't emphasize it much in advertising.

But yeah, I doubt the game catalog portion of PS+ is very profitable at all. I expect Essential is, since it's just printing money for stuff that isn't that expensive to provide, like cloud saves and online play. The monthly titles surely come at a pittance. The higher tiers are more expensive to provide and I'm guessing don't make much money and serve only as an answer to Gamepass.

 

[lefty1117]

If I only had a xbox console I would be a fool to not have GP at this point. It's what I recommend to anyone that is buying a console. I'd suggest PS+ too if it's on a playstation

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Big money!

 

[Riky]

GP isn't free? Everyone isn't paying a $1!

It will be interesting to see how far they can grow the service once they can put forward a steady stream of first-party content, as these results are from a relatively sparse point in time. Specifically, when they can get content releasing throughout the year, that would help them with drop-in/out users if that is something they are seeing.

50m should be on the cards easily, between console and PC.

The truth has squashed a lot of agenda driven narratives, these are stellar figures and the huge line up of first party games now coming is only going to grow these numbers.
So when Spencer said they were profitable now he could see the potential.

 

[DrFigs]

The truth has squashed a lot of agenda driven narratives, these are stellar figures and the huge line up of first party games now coming is only going to grow these numbers.
So when Spencer said they were profitable now he could see the potential.

it was always kind of a bad argument that people only pay a dollar for gamepass. but i don't see how the narrative that gamepass is not profitable or sustainable is countered by the leaks. seems like internally there's some concern about a lack of growth.

 

[mckmas8808]

If MS can really match or get close to the total sub numbers of Sony while selling around half of their machines, then their strategy of pushing PC more has really worked.

I think the announced objective of 1BN from subs per quarter is possible considering how it was a year and a half ago.

A report came out recently that stated all subscription models are slowing down growth-wise. I'd be surprised to see MS go from 25 million GP subs to 50 million this generation.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

The truth has squashed a lot of agenda driven narratives, these are stellar figures and the huge line up of first party games now coming is only going to grow these numbers.
So when Spencer I said they were profitable now I could see the potential.

Fixed, didn't want you to blow your cover.

 

[Riky]

it was always kind of a bad argument that people only pay a dollar for gamepass. but i don't see how the narrative that gamepass is not profitable or sustainable is countered by the leaks. seems like internally there's some concern about a lack of growth.

We know the Xbox division is profitable, growth comes from content and we will see what Starfield does to impact that with the flow of first party games now coming to fruition, some sub services are declining after all.
Something that literally turns over billions a year in subscription money is not going away.

 

[DrFigs]

We know the Xbox division is profitable, growth comes from content and we will see what Starfield does to impact that with the flow of first party games now coming to fruition, some sub services are declining after all.
Something that literally turns over billions a year in subscription money is not going away.

surely selling games also turns over billions in a year and that seems to be going away for microsoft

 

[Riky]

surely selling games also turns over billions in a year and that seems to be going away for microsoft

Seemed to sell well on Steam and hit the charts too, so they have both. Plus all the Gamepass owners who upgraded for early access. Three sources of revenue.

 

[Chukhopops]

A report came out recently that stated all subscription models are slowing down growth-wise. I'd be surprised to see MS go from 25 million GP subs to 50 million this generation.

The slide that leaked showed GP at 21.9M and XBLGold at 11.7M for a total of 33M and that was over a year ago.

PSPlus is at 45M all tiers combined, or at least that was the last known number. I think it’s possible that both will be close to each other in 4 years depending on PC growth. It may not happen of course.

 

[mejin]

We know the Xbox division is profitable, growth comes from content and we will see what Starfield does to impact that with the flow of first party games now coming to fruition, some sub services are declining after all.
Something that literally turns over billions a year in subscription money is not going away.

We do?

 

[Gambit2483]

As assuming PC subscribers do a lot of in and out depending on game releasing. Consoles are useless without gamepass so they are steady users.

Maybe that's the problem. Gamepass is great sure but 360 didn't have Gamepass and that wasn't useless. Sony nor Nintendo have a Gamepass equivalent and their respective consoles sure as heck aren't useless.

The subscription model isn't really sustainable and could lead to lower quality "Gamepass games" and yet the thought is that without it, the console is "useless"...MS' biggest problem is releasing high quality games that consumers would actually purchase physically or digitally.

 

[Gaiff]

This simply takes away the narrative when comparing Extra+Premium vs GP subbies.

Essentially saying it's not fair to compare since GP was also on PC. PC isn't doing much for them, yet.



Correct, although PC will continue to slowly grow regardless due to how much untapped potential there is.

Damn, why was octiny banned?

 

[F0rneus]

Damn, why was octiny banned?

I don't think it was necessarily because of that post. It's the long history on continually shitting on everything Playstation and praising Game Pass in almost every post that probably did him in.

We have a lot of XBox fans and Game Pass users on here and they aren't banned. It's ok to have a strong opinion but repeating it over and over, and being a dick about it, shall get you banhammered.

 

[havoc00]

The best value in gaming

 

[DeepEnigma]

The best value in gaming

You have earned yourself +10 Microsoft Rewards™ points that can be redeemed for gift cards, cash donations to causes you care about, and more! Visit our Rewards Points website for more details.

 

[havoc00]

You have earned yourself +10 Microsoft Rewards™ points that can be redeemed for gift cards, cash donations to causes you care about, and more! Visit our Rewards Points website for more details.

Gamepass has already saved me so much money this year already

 

[DeepEnigma]

Gamepass has already saved me so much money this year already

Xbox knows me really well

 

[Shubh_C63]

Mostly users will hit a saturation by now as they had said.
And god knows how much MS must be throwing at Devs to keep their games on GP.

Starfield is an amazing first step. Well they had to have that first step into the new generation sometime eventually. Lets wait for the 2nd one now.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

FTC forgot to redact all this from the ABK case.

Nope. MS provided the wrong link to a folder with unredacted files, instead of the link to the redacted ones.

Then, of course, all this hilarity ensued.

 

[Flutta]

The best value in gaming

 

[havoc00]

Facts are the facts Jack

 

[K' Dash]

Mark my words this netflixication of games 1 day would fuck us all in the ass.
Sony just gave us a hint of this by increasing prices by 20 dollars.

As long as we keep Nintendo as it is, the rest can burn to the ground for all I care.