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[TarNaru33]

It's the signals with the NK issue, in which nuclear proliferation will yield benefits in negotiations for denuclearization. More so, to be a regional power, securing the state is equally as important to Iran. That's why short-term it makes sense to at least on mostly large scale to accept the terms (meaning that they for most part are followed), but that's just a delay at best. To secure its position, Iran needs nuclear weapons as well, and it has in a bipolar systems options to use the struggle of power to secure support for it to accomplish so. The only hope was for trade and economic freedom to work its magic as a de-escalator. With how the US allies itself in the Middle East, it was pretty much doomed though.
The deal functioned mostly as a way to keep the nuclear proliferation in the Middle East at bay for a while. Realism is still a principle in international relations to be reckoned with and sanctions aren't something that'll just outright make it irrelevant to follow the principle of power.

We both largely agree that the current Iran nuclear deal is mostly for delaying and giving us a warning to their intentions. That is what it was always about. Delaying it via international agreements is better than just leaving the agreement, which will force Iran to keep striving for nuclear capabilities to protect itself from US.

I disagree with you on the need for nuclear weapons. Iran does not need nuclear weapons to become a serious regional power, because it already is one as the Gulf States are their competitors.

 

[bigedole]

We both largely agree that the current Iran nuclear deal is mostly for delaying and giving us a warning to their intentions. That is what it was always about. Delaying it via international agreements is better than just leaving the agreement, which will force Iran to keep striving for nuclear capabilities to protect itself from US.

I disagree with you on the need for nuclear weapons. Iran does not need nuclear weapons to become a serious regional power, because it already is one as the Gulf States are their competitors.

Iran was already caught lying from the very outset of the deal when they were supposed to reveal the extent of their nuclear knowledge:
Scroll to the bottom to see Netanyahu's presentation directly

There is a lot of doubt that Iran has been faithful to the deal as well:
https://hotair.com/archives/2016/02...n-work-on-parchin-during-and-after-agreement/

The bottom line is that Obama entered into this agreement with an executive order (and this is the only reason Trump can undo it so easily), without the support of even half the members of either the house or the senate. Even Obama expressed misgivings at what we were getting out of the deal, as essentially all we made them do was promise not to pursue nuclear research for 15 years, yet they remain the #1 state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Good for Trump following through on one of his campaign promises that actually makes sense.

EDIT: Adding a link to a Townhall editorial on this situation
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybe...medium=email&utm_campaign=nl_pm&newsletterad=

 

[TarNaru33]

Iran was already caught lying from the very outset of the deal when they were supposed to reveal the extent of their nuclear knowledge:
Scroll to the bottom to see Netanyahu's presentation directly

There is a lot of doubt that Iran has been faithful to the deal as well:
https://hotair.com/archives/2016/02...n-work-on-parchin-during-and-after-agreement/

The bottom line is that Obama entered into this agreement with an executive order (and this is the only reason Trump can undo it so easily), without the support of even half the members of either the house or the senate. Even Obama expressed misgivings at what we were getting out of the deal, as essentially all we made them do was promise not to pursue nuclear research for 15 years, yet they remain the #1 state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Good for Trump following through on one of his campaign promises that actually makes sense.

EDIT: Adding a link to a Townhall editorial on this situation
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybe...medium=email&utm_campaign=nl_pm&newsletterad=

At the bold, I wonder why he felt the only way to pass an Iran nuclear deal solo and not ask the gridlocked Congress for anything.

I don't think anyone believed that Iran wasn't trying to make a bomb or at least have the capability to. The level they were enriching the uranium alone contradicts any statements on not trying to make one especially when we put their ballistic missile tests into the picture. Israel is not as credible a source to get information from regarding Iran, they are firmly into the "bomb Iran" camp.

This deal was difficult to get to. The hardliners in Iran (the ones that control the country) do not even agree to this deal, believing it to give up too much of Iran's sovereignty. Asking for more concessions is unnecessary and risk total collapse of the process as we must take Russia and China into account.

I repeat, the goal of this deal is to give us advanced warning of their intentions and if they did not comply, the sanctions would snap back on immediately and we would start over. Going out of the deal prematurely and alone serves no purpose for U.S. We can't truly stop Iran from obtaining nuclear bombs short of invasion. An air campaign alone is not believed to be enough, it would only push Iranian people into the hands of the hardliners and delay their process, not stop it.

Also I am going to have to disagree with you on state sponsored terrorism, that crown belongs to Saudi Arabia, who spread Wahhabi beliefs without vetting the people they give weapons to. They are one of the reasons ISIS, Al Nusra, and such came to the forefront. Only recently have they been cracking down on it.

 

[Thizz]

The USAF is the deadliest terrorist organization on the planet.

 

[Unknown Quantity]

It's funny to see leftists that hate Trump to their guts freaking out over this deal with a country that, let's put it mildly, goes against EVERYTHING single thing they defend. Iran is much worse than Trump, but yet here we are.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/09/iranian-hardliners-rejoice-over-us-nuclear-deal-exit

"Hardliners in Iran are rejoicing at Donald Trump’s decision to unilaterally pull the US out of the 2015 nuclear deal and reimpose economic sanctions, and seizing on an opportunity to consolidate their power over reformists who championed the pact."
"The commander of Iran’s powerful Revolutionary Guards “congratulated” the nation on the US exit from the deal. According to the semi-official Fars news agency, the commander, Mohammad Ali Jafari said: “I congratulate and take into a good deed the vicious withdrawal of the US from JCPOA, which was not credible even before the withdrawal … It was proved once more that US isn’t trustworthy in regards its commitments.”

Commitment to regime change... Done. US international credibility imo at an all-time low, his commitment to dismantling Obama's work is making y'all look like untrustworthy corrupt idiots and Europe is not happy either, America first though, right? Enjoy the swamp.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tect-european-firms-from-us-sanctions-on-iran
"The European Union has moved to protect the 2015 Iran nuclear agreement by vowing to take steps to immunise European firms doing business with Tehran from any US sanctions."

 

[DonJimbo]

When The Mullah regime gets overthrown The IMPERIAL STATE OF IRAN will revive and iran will get the government it deserves

 

[Vicetrailia]

Oh hey, the nutjob far right of Iran are calling for death to America. News at 11.

Get your war machine stocks, and watch gas prices .

 

[Unknown Quantity]

The US is giving more fuel to the regime, isolation means they stay in power and can cull resistance, but hey, after putting so much money in the military in that last budget, them rockets need to go somewhere.
Rising oil prices benefit Saudi the most here, so great job by Trump.

 

[mckmas8808]

Oh hey, the nutjob far right of Iran are calling for death to America. News at 11.

Get your war machine stocks, and watch gas prices .

The bolded is what pisses me off too. Direct effect will be felt here.

 

[Mohonky]

Americans pay fuck all for gas prices, you guys wail about it when it's half the price other nations pay.

 

[cryptoadam]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/09/iranian-hardliners-rejoice-over-us-nuclear-deal-exit

"Hardliners in Iran are rejoicing at Donald Trump’s decision to unilaterally pull the US out of the 2015 nuclear deal and reimpose economic sanctions, and seizing on an opportunity to consolidate their power over reformists who championed the pact."
"The commander of Iran’s powerful Revolutionary Guards “congratulated” the nation on the US exit from the deal. According to the semi-official Fars news agency, the commander, Mohammad Ali Jafari said: “I congratulate and take into a good deed the vicious withdrawal of the US from JCPOA, which was not credible even before the withdrawal … It was proved once more that US isn’t trustworthy in regards its commitments.”

Commitment to regime change... Done. US international credibility imo at an all-time low, his commitment to dismantling Obama's work is making y'all look like untrustworthy corrupt idiots and Europe is not happy either, America first though, right? Enjoy the swamp.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tect-european-firms-from-us-sanctions-on-iran
"The European Union has moved to protect the 2015 Iran nuclear agreement by vowing to take steps to immunise European firms doing business with Tehran from any US sanctions."

There you go the EU doesn't want to get off the Iran gravy train. They don't care about the nuclear deal they just want to be able to profit off Iran. Much like we saw recently with German companies still selling to Syria.

Good for the EU to put greed up front.

 

[Unknown Quantity]

There you go the EU doesn't want to get off the Iran gravy train. They don't care about the nuclear deal they just want to be able to profit off Iran. Much like we saw recently with German companies still selling to Syria.

Good for the EU to put greed up front.

The deal that keeps nuclear inspectors in the country and stops nuclear enrichment to warhead level is a gravy train I'd board.

 

[cryptoadam]

The deal that keeps nuclear inspectors in the country and stops nuclear enrichment to warhead level is a gravy train I'd board.

My point was more that the EU doesn't care about all that they care about Iran money and even if Iran wasn't complying they would care more about the money.

I don't know if pulling out was good or bad. What I do know is that Iran is one of the worlds biggest sponsers of terror. The regime is a fanatical theocratic and tyranical. they are destabilizing the mideast. They effectivly control Lebanon with Hezbolla. They have split the OPT in two and with Hamas have turned Gaza into a hell hole. They are transferring Shia into Syria to replace the Sunni's they are helping Assad gas and ethnically cleanse. They are ethinically cleansing their own Arab population, execute gays, force their women to wear head scarves. They already used child soldiers to kill 500000 Iraqis, and are rumored to be using them again in Syria. They are arming Houthi rebels in Yemen. Iran is basically the state that is destabilizing the mid east meanwhile surrounding Israel and being the most antisemetic country in the world.

Doesn't mean I 100% support pulling out of the deal, but I never thought it was a good one in the first place. There should of maybe been a renegotiation to toughen it up. But sanctioning Iran and limiting the money it can spend on its war machine might not be the worst idea, just ask Syrians.

 

[mercenar1e]

There you go the EU doesn't want to get off the Iran gravy train. They don't care about the nuclear deal they just want to be able to profit off Iran. Much like we saw recently with German companies still selling to Syria.

Good for the EU to put greed up front.

Iran has been complying with the terms of the agreement. It’s a fact that’s widely accepted by every country’s intelligence services.

 

[DasPenguin]

My point was more that the EU doesn't care about all that they care about Iran money and even if Iran wasn't complying they would care more about the money.

I don't know if pulling out was good or bad. What I do know is that Iran is one of the worlds biggest sponsers of terror. The regime is a fanatical theocratic and tyranical. they are destabilizing the mideast. They effectivly control Lebanon with Hezbolla. They have split the OPT in two and with Hamas have turned Gaza into a hell hole. They are transferring Shia into Syria to replace the Sunni's they are helping Assad gas and ethnically cleanse. They are ethinically cleansing their own Arab population, execute gays, force their women to wear head scarves. They already used child soldiers to kill 500000 Iraqis, and are rumored to be using them again in Syria. They are arming Houthi rebels in Yemen. Iran is basically the state that is destabilizing the mid east meanwhile surrounding Israel and being the most antisemetic country in the world.

Doesn't mean I 100% support pulling out of the deal, but I never thought it was a good one in the first place. There should of maybe been a renegotiation to toughen it up. But sanctioning Iran and limiting the money it can spend on its war machine might not be the worst idea, just ask Syrians.

I'm curious, on what exactly do you base your first argument on? I'm guessing on a whole lot of nothing.

Second point: it was bad. Same people who are calling for Trump to get a Nobel conveniently ignore the fact that he just broke a deal that had only been in place for a little while. I'm sure that sends a positive message to all the other countries. But bringing unrest to Middle East is the true America's game, and they really are good at it. Unfortunately in this case good means bad.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Turns out Iran was fully complying with the deal. Trump is chaotic.

 

[TheShadowLord]

Turns out Iran was fully complying with the deal. Trump is chaotic.

source?

 

[mercenar1e]

source?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...withdrew-us-iran-nuclear-deal-heres-what-you/

Was Iran in compliance?
The deal restricted certain Iranian nuclear activities for periods between 10 to 25 years, and allowed for more intrusive, permanent monitoring. It also forbid Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons in the future. (You can read more details here.)

We previously found that Iran had largely complied with the deal, and many experts praised the pact for keeping nuclear weapons out of the hands of Tehran.

Over the 28 months the deal has been in effect, the International Atomic Energy Agency, the foremost authority on the matter, said it found Iran committed no violations — aside from some minor infractions that were rectified.

Did Iran get billions from the deal?
Trump said the deal handed the regime "many billions of dollars, some of it in actual cash. A great embarrassment to me as a citizen and to all citizens of the United States."

The deal released Iranian assets frozen under a variety of sanctions. The key point is that these assets, whether they were cash in the bank, real estate or something else, belonged to Iran in the first place.

The United States did deliver about $1.7 billion in cash to Iran. That represented $400 million plus interest that Iran had paid the United States before the Iranian revolution in 1979 for military hardware that was never delivered.

The total value worldwide of freed Iranian assets was about $56 billion, according to a 2015 estimate from the U.S. Treasury Department.

He backed out of the deal based on old intelligence from 2008 (the international community already knew about this before signing the deal with Iran) that Israels Netanyahu presented as new information a week before Trumps decision. He is very easy to manipulate.

 

[cryptoadam]

I'm curious, on what exactly do you base your first argument on? I'm guessing on a whole lot of nothing.

"The European Union has moved to protect the 2015 Iran nuclear agreement by vowing to take steps to immunise European firms doing business with Tehran from any US sanctions."

Its right there in their own quote. immunising their firms is of the upmost importance to them.

Germany has already sold weapons to Iran/Syria

https://www.jpost.com/International...ran-for-use-in-Syrian-chemical-attacks-540760

as of has Eastern Europe

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-europe-middle-east-revealed-arms-trade-syria

Second point: it was bad. Same people who are calling for Trump to get a Nobel conveniently ignore the fact that he just broke a deal that had only been in place for a little while. I'm sure that sends a positive message to all the other countries. But bringing unrest to Middle East is the true America's game, and they really are good at it. Unfortunately in this case good means bad.

The ME is already in unrest. I am not American so I don't care to blame/not blame US in ME. I don't trust Iran as far as I can throw them. I don't have an issue with sanctions on Iran. And Iran is bringing just as much unrest to the ME as the USA. Iran isn't the friend and defender of the Arab people.

 

[mckmas8808]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...withdrew-us-iran-nuclear-deal-heres-what-you/





He backed out of the deal based on old intelligence from 2008 (the international community already knew about this before signing the deal with Iran) that Israels Netanyahu presented as new information a week before Trumps decision. He is very easy to manipulate.

WOW!!!!!!!! This is bad.