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01011001
Banned
for me graphics don't have to improve drastically from this point on.
but I am glad that raytracing is finally coming to the mainstream, since what I want to see is the blemishes of current game graphics to be removed.
raytracing will eventually mean the death of screenspace effects (SS reflections, SS ambient occlusion or even SS shadows in some games), which are... just awful... damn near glitch like looking in many casss.
and more powerful GPUs + modern engines will eventually mean the death of visible pop-in and LOD transitions.
but that's really all I really wanna see drastic improvements on from this point forward. textures are usually really good these days, most of the meshes these days have enough triangles to look convincing... and yeah, that leaves just the annoying bits that I mentioned above
but I am glad that raytracing is finally coming to the mainstream, since what I want to see is the blemishes of current game graphics to be removed.
raytracing will eventually mean the death of screenspace effects (SS reflections, SS ambient occlusion or even SS shadows in some games), which are... just awful... damn near glitch like looking in many casss.
and more powerful GPUs + modern engines will eventually mean the death of visible pop-in and LOD transitions.
but that's really all I really wanna see drastic improvements on from this point forward. textures are usually really good these days, most of the meshes these days have enough triangles to look convincing... and yeah, that leaves just the annoying bits that I mentioned above
Krappadizzle
Member
You're not impressed because we haven't seen very many Ray Traced Global Illumination games. People who think RT is just reflections are not understanding that RT has been a pipe dream because of lighting, not reflections. It's the next graphical leap people are sleeping on. Lighting and A.I. is what this new generation of games need to focus on because things are looking pretty great as they are.
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pixelation
Member
You need new glasses grandpa 
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You need new glasses grandpa
Chew on some tide pods zoomer.
Chiggs
Gold Member
I own a $5,000 dollar PC that is hooked up to an ultra wide 21:9 monitor, but the only game I want to play on it nowadays is the one we all play with each other here on NeoGAF. That’s right, I just want to load up the Gaming forum and see whose feelings got hurt, and then use my imagination to envision what a bunch of crying man-babies look like as they start sulking and sobbing, then run to the kitchen to console themselves with a big-ass bag of Doritos.
Those are the best graphics of them all.
Those are the best graphics of them all.
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4chan is calling
I agree that RT is the next significant visual upgrade. I think AI upscaling will allow developers to have their cake and eat it too.
Alex from DF was right in the Halo Infinite video - lighting hasn’t gotten better, but not good enough. It’s distracting to see characters unnaturally lit in a game.
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Knitted Knight
Banned
Sony exclusives impress me every time one of them releases and I get to play them on a 65 inch TV. Horizon II Forbidden West is guaranteed to be the new visual bar for next-gen. But even Insomniac titles, and the Demon Souls Remake will be lookers. The problem is, majority of third parties are not keeping up and Microsoft isn't doing it either. Nintendo isn't even competiting. So, a handful of Sony exclusives and a handful of third parties are the ones pushing the envelope. If you're outside the Sony ecosystem you won't be exposed to much of that progress. If you game on 1080p monitors on PC, you're out too.
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I think the next visual upgrade is simply more overall horsepower from new consoles and improved art budgets with it. While some people hype dlss 2.0 some industry graphcis engineers have questioned if its much more than color neighborhood clamping etc. which are already currently used. Cannot speak for tlou2 which was criticized chars not fitting with environment, but i havent had any problems of characters sticking out in Modern warfare even though they even boost luminance of characters in multiplayer. Honestly dont think RT is some sort of gamechanger some believe, having reflections on puddles barely changes the entiretity of the scene to look better, and its performance hog to boot with when added to games running on 2013 hardware on 1000 dollar gpu, so its unlikely to scale to next gen triangle budgets let alone, UE5 style micropolygon budgets.
rushbow212
Banned
Honestly improve your graphic card to enhance stability with the game
Krappadizzle
Member
RT is about lighting and not reflections. Reflections are just a nice little boost to what RT brings to the table.
Humdinger
Member
One of the things that bored me about hanging out on an Xbox-centric forum was how they would constantly focus on technical specifications, pixel counts, and graphical niceties. There was hardly any talk about, you know, games. Everything was tech, specs, resolution, blah blah blah. It drained my enthusiasm for the hobby. Listening to all that tech/rez talk dried up my enjoyment of gaming.
TheMay30thMan
Member
Battlefield 3 made my jaw drop when it was revealed. Haven’t been awed by anything since.
TheDrunkenMerchant
Member
I grew up in the NES days as well. My opinion is: I don't understand anything past 1080p tbh. I'm still happy with 720p though I know most will disagree. I'm also one of those supposed "crazy people" who think 60 FPS looks too fast and awkward. I prefer a steady 30 FPS over anything (though I think you should have the option to choose between the two).
I'd rather Final Fantasy VII: Remake (Part 2) come out sooner as it was than wait 8 years and have a bunch of workers crunched to have every nail 3D rendered within every building. Just make the game fun and the script well written.
I'd rather Final Fantasy VII: Remake (Part 2) come out sooner as it was than wait 8 years and have a bunch of workers crunched to have every nail 3D rendered within every building. Just make the game fun and the script well written.
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Justin9mm
Member
Well you are gaming in I assume 1080p and don't know any better so I'm not surprised you have come to this conclusion.
Don’t know any better? Do tell.
Depending on viewing distance, 1080P/720P can be fine. If you’re playing up close on a monitor then it could be an issue.
If you’re playing retro or retro-style games, then resolution means very little.
Justin9mm
Member
Really, there is a lot more going on at 4K resolution. I'm not sure why this needs to be explained? You said you are underwhelmed by the graphics hype. The difference in graphic quality from 1080p to 4K is night and day.. Viewing distance is only one variable in this argument. You'd have to be sitting really really really far away and have a very tiny TV to not see the difference.
The experience playing a game in 4K and 1080p are nowhere near the same.
It's like saying there is no difference in experience between TV speakers and external stereo speakers. You can hear a clear difference in quality, 1080p and 4K you can see a clear difference in picture quality and its quite impressive, especially with proper HDR implementation on a HDR TV. HDR is not a gimmick.
If you did know better you would see this and not need it explained to you. Your argument of basically playing only in 1080p and then saying you are underwhelmed by the current graphics this generation makes no sense at all.
Did I ever say there was no difference in resolutions above 1080P?
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MrFunSocks
Banned
I prefer 60fps over graphics. I prefer gameplay over graphics. I don’t care about animations and facial expressions and being able to see individual pores on people’s skin if it doesn’t directly make the gameplay better. I’be been an avid gamer since the Atari 2800 so graphics don’t need to be mind blowing for me.
Seeing people on here now call for Halo Infinite to go back down to 30fps blows my mind. It shouldn’t though, since most on here seem to prefer their games more on the cinematic side.
Nothing I’ve seen from next gen on either side wowed me graphically. Nothing at all. Just looked like this gen with the effects and resolution dialled up to 11. I was hoping for more, but I guess the main leap this generation will be in CPU and loading times. Both those affect gameplay so I’m ok with it.
My favourite games this gen are titanfall and PUBG, both of which priority’s gameplay over everything else.
Seeing people on here now call for Halo Infinite to go back down to 30fps blows my mind. It shouldn’t though, since most on here seem to prefer their games more on the cinematic side.
Nothing I’ve seen from next gen on either side wowed me graphically. Nothing at all. Just looked like this gen with the effects and resolution dialled up to 11. I was hoping for more, but I guess the main leap this generation will be in CPU and loading times. Both those affect gameplay so I’m ok with it.
My favourite games this gen are titanfall and PUBG, both of which priority’s gameplay over everything else.
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Justin9mm
Member
What you said was that you only game on a HDTV from 2011 and then you said that you are underwhelmed by the graphics hype.
That makes no sense at all, your post is very confusing and a bit contradictory because although there is a difference between graphics quality and resolution quality, your post seems to refer to resolution. But you are not even gaming in 4K and there is a lot more going on in the graphics department at that resolution so how can you say you are underwhelmed if you have no experience with it?
alabtrosMyster
Banned
After seeing years of consoles getting games that run really bad as the norm (constant drops below 30fps, or never touching 60 in games that target it)... at very low resolutions (sub 720p in many ps360 titles, ) and details so low that you did not need to even look for the differences between consoles and a decently specced PC, that has been the case since the dawn of 3D gaming... Only now the differences are still quite subtle late in the generation, it makes it harder to get overly excited about double FPS.
I’ve seen gaming on a 4K television. HDR is nice too, but it’s not enough for me to upgrade my TV
Why do you care what I like or not?
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MrFunSocks
Banned
People also don’t realise that lighting affects pretty much everything about the games graphics too, as evidenced by the Infinite threads where people say things like “lighting won’t fix those textures!” when it actually can.
Global illumination + PBR + Ray Tracing + photogrammetry for most games is the dream.
Justin9mm
Member
You've seen gaming on a 4K TV.. Well that's not really the same thing.I’ve seen gaming on a 4K television. HDR is nice too, but it’s not enough for me to upgrade my TV
Why do you care what I like or not?
I don't care what you like or don't like.
Putting it nicely to you does not work so.. here it is.. Your opinion is uneducated and therefore invalid. You have no idea what you are talking about and I think you don't really understand graphics at all.
Ok, I get it. 4Chan wasn’t doing it for you.
Rikkori
Member
Get yourself a high powered rig and sit down in front of this and play some new fancy shmancy titles with insane rendering capabilities (eg RDR2, FS2020, The Division 2, Control RTX, Death Stranding 8K DLSS) then come back and tell us how not impressed you are with graphics progress.
Until then it sounds too much like
Until then it sounds too much like
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Get yourself a high powered rig and sit down in front of this and play some new fancy shmancy titles with insane rendering capabilities (eg RDR2, FS2020, The Division 2, Control RTX, Death Stranding 8K DLSS) then come back and tell us how not impressed you are with graphics progress.
Until then it sounds too much like
Sir, I am humbled.
Tschumi
Member
I distinctly remember a time, i dunno, 2005-2015, maybe earlier, when "Graphics aren't everything" was a much more widespread stance. Or at least, more topical.
Look at the xBox reveal.. everyone, even it seems the most well-reacted and outspoken veterans of the forum, gleefully indulged in what, ten years ago, would surely have been called shallow arguments over visuals. I mean, very few of the posts i remember on those Halo Infinite threads said "you guys are being shallow, gameplay is more important than Graphics", like i would have expected a decade ago.
I'm not trying to sound aloof - i also just harped about graphics (until a week or so ago when i wrote a thread about trying to be positive and the Infinite reveal trailer) but what I'm trying to touch on here is this phenomenon of shifting standards, and a dying brand of gamer hipsterism, over the last half decade or so.
I think games just look so good these days that it is allowed to be part of the overall experience a lot more than in the past.
--
OP: i am a retro gamer. I play modern games, but never on release. However,i feel like it might be time for me to go for a PS5, and so my current stance will soon mean little.
I am currently happy to play at 1080 because my laptop can play any game - death stranding for instance - at high settings, so long as i keep it to 1080 with anything my graphics card can't do switched off.
Look at the xBox reveal.. everyone, even it seems the most well-reacted and outspoken veterans of the forum, gleefully indulged in what, ten years ago, would surely have been called shallow arguments over visuals. I mean, very few of the posts i remember on those Halo Infinite threads said "you guys are being shallow, gameplay is more important than Graphics", like i would have expected a decade ago.
I'm not trying to sound aloof - i also just harped about graphics (until a week or so ago when i wrote a thread about trying to be positive and the Infinite reveal trailer) but what I'm trying to touch on here is this phenomenon of shifting standards, and a dying brand of gamer hipsterism, over the last half decade or so.
I think games just look so good these days that it is allowed to be part of the overall experience a lot more than in the past.
--
OP: i am a retro gamer. I play modern games, but never on release. However,i feel like it might be time for me to go for a PS5, and so my current stance will soon mean little.
I am currently happy to play at 1080 because my laptop can play any game - death stranding for instance - at high settings, so long as i keep it to 1080 with anything my graphics card can't do switched off.
Your favourite game is PUBG.
You are happy with Halos a current visuals.
You’re used to Atari 2800 visuals, so you don’t care about graphics.
You also find next gen Graphics underwhelming?
Phrixotrichus
Banned
Once you see the limitations and flaws in todays graphics and scope you can`t "unsee" them and I´m the kind of person that gets more and more bothered by that the more I see it.
I want new tech...bad.
I want new tech...bad.
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anothertech
Member
I'm a graphics whore. If it doesn't stun me with visual fidelity and iq then I scoff.
That said, art direction may be the most important aspect to visuals in games these days.
That said, art direction may be the most important aspect to visuals in games these days.
sobaka770
Banned
In terms of visual presentation at this tech point we almost always run into art >>> graphics.
The extra power is useful to make it easier to focus just on art and not get stuck on technical issues to make things work but especially current gen most games with colourful, artsy, cartoony graphics are looking above and beyond some of the more technically advanced realistic titles.
Sometimes tech is a detriment if the art team is not up to par or it conflicts with basic gameplay needs. Some older 2d titles look better than 3d (Worms?). Total War maps were imo better when clean and zoomed out circa Medieval 2 rather than detailed zoomed in garbage of Warhammer. Cleanliness, visibility, simplicity are undervalued in modern designs.
That being said the games from PS2 era and even PS3 era outside of remasters look rough and there are almost universally better gaming experiences current gen never to look back.
The extra power is useful to make it easier to focus just on art and not get stuck on technical issues to make things work but especially current gen most games with colourful, artsy, cartoony graphics are looking above and beyond some of the more technically advanced realistic titles.
Sometimes tech is a detriment if the art team is not up to par or it conflicts with basic gameplay needs. Some older 2d titles look better than 3d (Worms?). Total War maps were imo better when clean and zoomed out circa Medieval 2 rather than detailed zoomed in garbage of Warhammer. Cleanliness, visibility, simplicity are undervalued in modern designs.
That being said the games from PS2 era and even PS3 era outside of remasters look rough and there are almost universally better gaming experiences current gen never to look back.
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Stiflers Mom
Banned
Same here.
I don't see anything wowing me anymore.
When you grew up in the eighties and went from this:
to this in 6 years:
.. you are less than impressed by next gen consoles this time around.
I don't see anything wowing me anymore.
When you grew up in the eighties and went from this:
to this in 6 years:
.. you are less than impressed by next gen consoles this time around.
93xfan
Banned
I started gaming in the NES era as well. I was blown away by Donkey Kong Country, Mortal Kombat (Arcade), Sonic Adventure, Mario 64, Metal Gear Solid 2, etc.
You’d think I’d grow tired of looking forward to graphical improvements, but after looking at Flight Sim 2020, I’m reminded I’m still a graphics whore. With that said, I still really appreciate the graphics in games like Mario Kart 8 and even some OG Xbox games like Ninja Gaiden.
You’d think I’d grow tired of looking forward to graphical improvements, but after looking at Flight Sim 2020, I’m reminded I’m still a graphics whore. With that said, I still really appreciate the graphics in games like Mario Kart 8 and even some OG Xbox games like Ninja Gaiden.
Nickolaidas
Member
Video games reached the same level that cinema has reached a decade ago. I am simply not impressed at all with CGI graphics in movies. Not at all. Sure, the interaction between actors and CGI may look more interactive and believable, but I stopped having that WOW! factor I had when I watched the cave troll burst through the room the fellowship had barricaded themselves into in the LotR - Fellowship of the Ring. CGI reached a point where they look like real life. We have CGI mimicking real life actors and we can barely see the difference. You just can't surpass that, visually.
Same thing with video games - at least in terms of models. The difference between PS2 and PS3 is nowhere near as large as the difference between PS4 and PS5 (and you can see that when you compare Spider-Man to Miles Morales shots - sure, you can spot a difference, but it's not mind blowing and it's not able to make you WOW!! THAT LOOKS SO MUCH BETTER OMFG!!!)
However, there are other segments that video games can still improve a lot. That is detail in the environment, movement, animation, A.I. scripts, frame rate ... this is why Demon's Souls looks so much better than Dark Souls III than Miles Morales looks better than Spider-Man, because Demon's Souls shows a lot more detailed environment in comparison with Dark Souls III)
Pretty soon, it will mostly be art style and bestiary choices that will make or break a game visually for me.
Same thing with video games - at least in terms of models. The difference between PS2 and PS3 is nowhere near as large as the difference between PS4 and PS5 (and you can see that when you compare Spider-Man to Miles Morales shots - sure, you can spot a difference, but it's not mind blowing and it's not able to make you WOW!! THAT LOOKS SO MUCH BETTER OMFG!!!)
However, there are other segments that video games can still improve a lot. That is detail in the environment, movement, animation, A.I. scripts, frame rate ... this is why Demon's Souls looks so much better than Dark Souls III than Miles Morales looks better than Spider-Man, because Demon's Souls shows a lot more detailed environment in comparison with Dark Souls III)
Pretty soon, it will mostly be art style and bestiary choices that will make or break a game visually for me.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Yes, because nothing I’ve seen looks significantly different to games this gen. I don’t care, I’ll still be buying a next gen console or 2, but that’s my opinion. Is there something wrong with that?Your favourite game is PUBG.
You are happy with Halos a current visuals.
You’re used to Atari 2800 visuals, so you don’t care about graphics.
You also find next gen Graphics underwhelming?
CrysisFreak
Banned
Only amateurs and casuals think we have reached diminishing returns when it comes to videogame graphics.
We really haven't.
Look at current-gen games, with the exception of RDR2, they only look good in the area 50 meters around the player, outside of that they're awful.
AC Odyssey's landscape looks like low poly trash at times, Crew 2's LOD system collapses like a noodle when you switch to a plane, Horizon's LOD transitions are super obvious when you look at stuff that's further away, Bloodborne is a blurry aliased mess, Nioh needs to sacrifice a lot for 60 fps (but it still looks good imho, relatively), and so on.
Now look at Demon's Souls Remake or Horizon 2 screenshots. They are fucking PRISTINE.
It is hard for you to quantify the next-gen jump without playing it yourself, but I know that right now there's still a lot of room for improvement. And what we've seen so far is just the beginning tbh.
We really haven't.
Look at current-gen games, with the exception of RDR2, they only look good in the area 50 meters around the player, outside of that they're awful.
AC Odyssey's landscape looks like low poly trash at times, Crew 2's LOD system collapses like a noodle when you switch to a plane, Horizon's LOD transitions are super obvious when you look at stuff that's further away, Bloodborne is a blurry aliased mess, Nioh needs to sacrifice a lot for 60 fps (but it still looks good imho, relatively), and so on.
Now look at Demon's Souls Remake or Horizon 2 screenshots. They are fucking PRISTINE.
It is hard for you to quantify the next-gen jump without playing it yourself, but I know that right now there's still a lot of room for improvement. And what we've seen so far is just the beginning tbh.
CrysisFreak
Banned
Do you really think next-gen consoles will give you RT GI? Please. You'll get RT reflections at quarter resolution at best.