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[Drinky Crow]

krypt, the next post you make where you fail to address an argument and instead focus on the poster will net you a week off.

WARNING.

 

[Belfast]

If you were perceptive you'd see they don't line up.

And neither do your arguments!

ZING!

 

[HyperionX]

actually, having 4 pinouts there doesn't mean there are only 16 levels of sensitivity...

oh, and the xbox doesn't have 16 levels either...

the conclusions you draw from the pic are wild and speculative...

My conclusions are supported by experimental data: http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/ridgeracer/preview_6114902.html

The control disc takes some getting used to, but it's also an acceptable control method. It feels roughly like an analog stick, but there's a slightly wider dead zone than you'd expect, and it's also a little difficult to get very slight turns out of it. Still, since you'll usually be wildly breaking loose around turns, subtle motions aren't exactly required to succeed.

 

[boredJonathan]

Is this thread gonna be locked before reaching page 2? Most likely

Dear god I only wish...

My two cents? Like anyone cares in the first place but, I picked up a DS a few days after it came out. I fell victim to my geek nature and the desire to have it now, despite the fact that I really didn't want to replay Mario 64 again. Well I was pleasantly suprised, Mario 64 was pretty fun and the whole touch screen thing didn't seem entirely worthless. Plus my GBA games look gorgeous on it.

Then the official PSP Japan launch thread pops up, (BTW great job on that Ami), and I was seriously floored. I had been interested, but hardly folowing the system. The launch line up alone makes it the better system if you ask me. I by my handhelds for games. The PSP has 4 to 5 games coming out within the first fucking month of release that I would gladly drop money on. The DS? Well.. WarioWare should be coming out sometime right? Minish Cap will be fun on it..

Get my point? (And it must be said.. the PSP is dead sexy. That picture of the three PSPs playing right next to a DS is really all the proof I needed.)

 

[monkeyrun]

MINI-GAMES!!!!11111

It's the new GAF jaded gamer fad! What's next -- virtual puppies? awkwardly scribbling out text messages to folks within earshot?

How long until some of you folks just admit that you've been loathing gaming ever since the Nintendo brand name began its slow, steady slide into cultural irrelevance?

"come on, nintendo, we need something new that we can really call our own! we've been deprived of our sense of subculture superiority for far too long! go ds!"

lol .. when will you admit that you are a dumb ass ?

 

[ferricide]

planet tedious fandom meets planet tedious hate.

come on, drinky, you're a smart guy. shouldn't you get your kicks from hunting ducks that don't sit still?

the DS will have some lovely games. if you hate animal crossing, well, that's well and good, but it's going to provide me with barrels of fun, i'll wager. but that's not really what this is about, right? it's about kicking nintendo fans because they're bloody annoying.

and since the PSP is immersive sexiness in a sleek little package, and has all of the inevitability of quality software that PS2 did after PS1 ate the world. and has a vastly improved launch lineup to boot, that makes it a very easy job to do.

hrmmm.

 

[DDayton]

The really interesting comparison that hasn't been made yet is between prior hardware launches and the DS/PSP launch. This is the first time, in my knowledge, that Nintendo and Sony released new systems at about the same time. The Playstation definately got an edge by being released so much earlier than the N64... the PS2 was going to sell well anyway, but an early launch also guaranteed success. This time, though, it will be system versus system.

 

[Belfast]

lol .. when will you admit that you are a dumb ass ?

Perhaps you'd better run, monkey. I'm tempted to do something, but I think I'll let Drinky handle it since he's the one you attempted to insult.

 

[Amir0x]

Then the official PSP Japan launch thread pops up, (BTW great job on that Ami), and I was seriously floored. I had been interested, but hardly folowing the system. The launch line up alone makes it the better system if you ask me. I by my handhelds for games. The PSP has 4 to 5 games coming out within the first fucking month of release that I would gladly drop money on. The DS? Well.. WarioWare should be coming out sometime right? Minish Cap will be fun on it..

Thanks! I actually like making those things. I put a few hours of research into it and get to lay it out all pretty like... it's very satisfying

Anyway, I think the DS line up is going to improve in the future. As for which line up is better... well... I guess that all depends on how good the launch titles actually end up being for PSP. There's quite a few games that have lots of potential, but it's all about living up to it.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

The Xbox touchpad has 16 possible directions I believe, so it's just an touch-"nub" equivalent to an Xbox controller but harder to control. For all intent and purposes the PSP has no analog control method either, so you can complain all you want about the touchscreen, but in the end it's still something versus nothing.

I've seen analog control via PSP videos. It may be a nub, but it's an ANALOG NUB. Ridge Racer shows and has proven it. That marbles game (I cannot remember the name at this second) depends on it.

My opinion is that the touchscreen will allow for the playing of FPS's far, far superior on a DS than on a PSP, making it a lot more popular in western markets than the PSP. The use of RTS games could hypothetically open up totally new sectors of the market (e.g. S. Korea). A port of Starcraft and a bunch of other RTSs gives the DS a much wider selection of potential killer apps than the PSP could hope to obtain. Plus it has every game the GBA has. On the other hand, I'm of the opinion that the PSP will get little other than ports since it has nothing worthwhile to offer over the PS2 except being portable, and in some cases less since it has no real analog control method.

That won't make it popular in western markets when the DS will only be getting FPS' that are equivalent to the ones we were playing pre-Duke Nukem 3D. *Ahem*METROID*Ahem* and I felt it was pretty unconfortable. It will probably be better than the PSP's to a certain degree. Not as marked as you make it seem, however. The PSP FPS' could employ the same control set-up as the Dreamcast did before it. I've heard nor seen any mention of Starcraft DS, so I assume it was made up to try and assert your point. Aside that, PORTS of RTS' won't help any situation. The PSP will have just as much ported content as the DS, hopefully less since Sony doesn't seemed as focused to just port over old content like Nintendo is. And even so, ports of CURRENT GAMES to me is more acceptable than ports of 8+ year old games. And again, the PSP has true analog.

Sony is out of it's league here IMO. Unlike Microsoft, who's Xbox offered Internet gaming and a HD alongside better graphics relative to the PS2 (and of course Halo as well ), the PSP only offers better graphics over the DS, and less control and battery life to boot, and apparently no killer apps. While graphics certain will draw its converts, it alone, as Xbox has demostrated, means nothing in the big picture.

The PSP has internet as well. Vampire Chronicle. It also has storage. Memory stick. The PSP offers vastly better graphics than the DS, larger than the PS2->Xbox leap. The PSP seems to have more mainstream appeal games than the DS at this point. The PSP also offers a HUGE new thing in portables: Portable videos. While it isn't exactly new, this is the first time it's been effectively integrated into a made-for-massmarket product. It could have "PS2 with DVD playback" vibe with it.

Yes, of course the PSP also offers movies and mp3 playback. But you'll have to buy those movies (brand new media means buying a PSP copy of everything you may already have), and with a highly limited potential market I see virtually no movies at all unless the PSP takes off, which I don't see either. Audio playback is a joke: memory cards are expensive as hell with a 1GB memory card costing hundreds, versus a Ipod or even one of those cheap Ipod clones it's much too expensive. Only games matter in the end, and PSP isn't delievering there, and has less capability to do so over the DS. In short isn't appealing other than being good to look at despite what all you PSP supporters say. People, at least me, won't buy a gaming device merely because it looks good, instead they buy what they feel will entertain them, and that appears to be the DS.

You have to buy the memory stick if you don't get the combo pack, and that's it. You can encode movies to MP4 and play them back on your PSP as you please. You're not forced to buy UMD disks. Also, if your computer has wireless or you have a USB cable, aren't you going to be able to stream content such as videos and music to your PSP? Audio playback is better than the DS', since the DS has tinny speakers, and limited Audio processing. With the PSP you're actually getting Audio playback, and you aren't forced at gunpoint to use the PSP speaker (which is of some good quality). The PSP combo pack comes with earbuds. The PSP is said by many to have the franchises that the mainstream crowd will look at and become excited by. Yes the PSP looks good, but it also seems to have much more effective marketing than whatever faux market force Nintendo is pulling with the DS. Sporadic "Touching is good" commercials and the ambiguous and cheap design of the unit. Even Sony's Ipod clone got better marketing.

 

[drohne]

anyway, in response to the topic, i'm going to say no. the ds hasn't won already. it's a nine inning game and no one can say where the cards will fall. both systems have good games. ds may look like it has all its ducks in a row, but that bubble could pop at any moment. the real winner here is the gamer.

 

[ferricide]

anyway, in response to the topic, i'm going to say no. the ds hasn't won already. it's a nine inning game and no one can say where the cards will fall. both systems have good games. ds may look like it has all its ducks in a row, but that bubble could pop at any moment. the real winner here is the gamer.

stop being levelheaded and positive. i think this post is banworthy.

 

[Timbuktu]

Isn't it possible that the GBA SP will outsell both DS and PSP for quite a while still?

Edit: For reference. November NPD

Hardware

PS2: 694K (all SKUs including bundles)
XBX: 746K (all SKUs including bundles)
NDS: 479K
GBA: 1,323K (all colors/bundles)
NGC: 350K (all colors/bundles)

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Isn't it possible that the GBA SP will outsell both DS and PSP for quite a while still?

I'm betting on it, analysts are betting on it. Nintendo has raised their output of GBAs over last year, so they're most likely betting on it too.

 

[Argyle]

This is the underlining hardware behind the analog "nub" of the PSP. As you can see, there's only 4 communication ports to it. That means 2^4 = 16 possible outputs it can produce, or 16 different directions of movement (and apparently the degree of movement isn't measured from the reports I've read). Since a regular touchpad has 8 possible directions, that makes the analog nub just a touchpad with twice the number of buttons. The Xbox touchpad has 16 possible directions I believe, so it's just an touch-"nub" equivalent to an Xbox controller but harder to control. For all intent and purposes the PSP has no analog control method either, so you can complain all you want about the touchscreen, but in the end it's still something versus nothing.

This is the stupidest thing I've read all day.

Take a look at a PC joystick or Xbox pad, look at the four pins on the USB connector, and try and tell me that somehow the four pins means 16 possible outputs again.

(Hint: What does the S in USB stand for?)

 

[luxsol]

I lived with an analogue stick and face buttons to control Goldeneye and Perfect Dark.

But anyone who's serious about an FPS in the first place already has a PC. FPS games are about immersion and I can't imagine anyone salivating to play them on a liliputian screen with odd lighting and a bastardized sound system. How do you fathom that the promise of an FPS would necessarily be a selling point for a handheld system?

I lived with analog sticks too with those games. I loved Turok's control scheme the best (perfected FPS controls on console, IMO). I started playing on FPS on PC and fell in love with them on N64 (hated the way FPS controlled on PC). It wasn't until Q3A came out that i started to like PC FPS again. The controls on PC FPS had improved so much since i last played them and seeing two analog sticks to move and shoot seemed retarded to me (considering Turok's controls were perfect). I had been using my wacom tablet (stylus!) for strategy games on my computers, so I was completely comfortable using a stylus with FPS.

My favorite FPS is RTCW, and i play it on a friggin Mac that has a Geforce2 card in it. An ugly game compared to Half Life 2 which runs on my 3ghz PC using a Geforce 6800 card. I've also played Enemy Territory on it, but even that can't help me from coming back to RTCW on my Mac (I'm a damn addict!). Graphics doesn't make the game immersive and fun, but it helps.

So to me, the NDS will offer what I love and is ahead of console FPSs. Doesn't matter if the graphics are crap or if the screen is small, because in FPS the most important thing is having fun and accurate controls. Big or small screen, beautiful graphics or ugly graphics, it doesn't matter in any game, because if the game is fun you will focus on the game and be immersed. If there are problems with controls, however, it will be harder to focus on the game. Hopefully, there will be many FPS that take advantage of the NDS.

As I said in another thread, I hope Nintendo uses connectivity with the NDS or at least has a stylus option in the next generation, so that I can have perfect control with console FPS.

 

[JackFrost2012]

(Hint: What does the S in USB stand for?)

It's Universal Sixteeninput Bus, right?

 

[JavyOO7]

I just see the DS as a time for Nintendo to shine. Here's hoping to software that blows me away in the near future.

I'm enjoying the DS too, the touch screen and the dual screens might be a gimmick but it's something that's hit me the right way. Playing Mr Driller / Mario 64 DS yesterday only gave me hope that developers will bite the bullet and bring some interesting stuff to the system. Can't wait.

 

[gamergirly]

Universal Serial Bus

 

[Deg]

Metroid is the wrong name to use for a fps.

Nintendo should let Retro create a new fps franchise.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Basically with the NDS, Nintendo have thrown out a stopgap that will cause them difficulties later on. They pretty much handed Sony a good chunk of the handheld market on a silver platter. If the Japanese reception is anything to go buy (and lets face why wouldn't it be) then interest in the PSP will steamroll interest in the NDS (all this 'Nintendo up shipments is just PR-gumpf, you can't just turn around and in a fortnight produce larger quantities, it was planned all along).

However the NDS has been successful enough that it's not going to be easy for Nintendo to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never existed and then save themselves with a PSP equally/beating GBA2. The GBA2 will now be expected to continue the dual screens, the touch screen and mic, or otherwise appear to be a retreating step. Throw that into a machine that has to be comparable to PSP in power, screen quality and battery life and you have a recipe for either an expensive handheld or a long wait during which Sony can solidify a position in the handheld and start preparing the PSP2.

 

[Che]

krypt, the next post you make where you fail to address an argument and instead focus on the poster will net you a week off.

WARNING.

There we go ladies and gentlemen. Not only he trolls all the time now he threatens other members with ban cos they can't stand his trolling posts. GAF has hit a new low!

That will possibly get me banned sooner or later since I'll be in your hit list but damn it's a worth it since, DC, you give this forum a bad name.

 

[Pimpwerx]

My conclusions are supported by experimental data: http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/ridgeracer/preview_6114902.html

Hardly. The number of pins means nothing as you could produce 360 degrees of analog contol with just 4 reference points. Think of a coordinate plane with x/y-axis. You simply measure movement along each axis, and voila, you've got the potential for analog control, and REAL analog. I would be suprised if Sony made an analog nub that wasn't truly analog. It's not really rocket science. PEACE.

 

[teiresias]

So according to HyperionX the board I just finished designing this week isn't going to work at all. I mean, my data connection to the analog-to-digital converter is only 3-pins, but somehow I expect to be able to pass 16-bit samples over that thing at a rate of 800k samples per second - however am I supposed to do that??!!??!!??!! :lol :lol :lol There isn't a rolleyes big enough for that post.

 

[krypt0nian]

There we go ladies and gentlemen. Not only he trolls all the time now he threatens other members with ban cos they can't stand his trolling posts. GAF has hit a new low!

That will possibly get me banned sooner or later since I'll be in your hit list but damn it's a worth it since, DC, you give this forum a bad name.

That's all he has in the end. Changing tags and banning when he tires of trolling without substance.

Ban me. Use your all mighty powers. In the end I still carried on a discyussion without namecalling or insulting others opinions. Truly sad that you cannot do the same. Sorry if my ideas and viewpoint is "retarded" or "rambling"

Guess I'll go get me a board and ban people </hyuck>

I post point after point, and you use the tactic of saying the points are retarded. Nicely handled.

If you cannot carry on an arguement on a silly msg board, you may not want to deter from your "trolling is a social experiment" joke character stance.


</awaits petty ego ban>


ON TOPIC: This will all come down to games for any real gamer. And since we've seen only the tip of the iceberg with both launches, no one can predict anything about innovation, etc. The Dreamcast was by all accounts a miserable failure, yet it takes nothing away from the fun people had while it was here. Even if the DS fails in the same way and ends up in the foretold bargin bin, it will still be the biggest chance anyone's taken in this industry in years. And this industry needs change like there's no tomorrow.

Which is all I've asserted this whole thread all the while being harrassed by Drinky and Drohne with mindless "Mini-Games!!!!11!!!!" rhetoric.

 

[COCKLES]

Look at this way, by the time the PSP will have 500k units the DS will have around 2.8M. By the time the PSP will have a million, the DS should be in the neighborhood of 5M (assume PSP sells 1M by March 2005 by which the DS will have 5M). This is the strongest launch for Nintendo of any console or handheld AFAIK. It seems to me that the DS is clearly on the path of being the GBA replacement, which if that is the case will mean that they'll sell a gazillion DSes, especially if they make a price cut to $100 sometimes next year. If that is the case then I predict that:

end of 2005:
DS: 10-15 million
PSP: 3-5 million

end of 2006:
DS: 35-45 million
PSP: 10-15 million

end of 2007:
DS: 65-75 million
PSP: 20-25 million

These sales numbers are vaguely in line with the GBA/GBASP for the DS, which would in fact be somewhat conservative seeing how the DS launch is better than the GBA launch. I'm just guessing for the PSP though. After that, around the 2007-2008 timeframe, DS2/GBA2 comes out killing any long term chance for the PSP to take off.

So judging by it's strong launch, ability to replace the GBA with its backwards compatibility, and strong Nintendo dominance in the handheld market I claim that the DS has already won. Any opinions?

Juniors....gotta love 'em.

 

[Drinky Crow]

No, you done nothing but whine specifically about me and other posters who mock the DS. You haven't made any "points" save that you think some of us have an agenda and you've tried to spin it into relevance, failing to discuss ANY SINGLE ONE of the issues brought up -- that the touch screen really isn't any sort of significant innovation, and that none of the currently available games bear out this promise of revolution. All you've done is breathily squeal that "Drinky Crow is just trolling again!" -- which serves fuck-all in this particular discussion. It's either obvious that I'm "trolling", or it isn't, and the meta-commentary is not only disingenuous, it derails the discussion for no purpose save your crazy sense of videogaming forum justice.

Again, if you bring up posting personalities in lieu of an argument again, you can shuffle on off to Opa Ages, where they'll be glad to discuss my personality with you.

And this industry needs change like there's no tomorrow.

Theatrics aside, why's that?

 

[Drinky Crow]

That will possibly get me banned sooner or later since I'll be in your hit list but damn it's a worth it since, DC, you give this forum a bad name.

Well, I see you've brought your little cross to the mount -- just say the word, and I'll hammer in the nails.

 

[Firest0rm]

If Japan is any indication...

DS launch:

PSP launch:

Seriously, I believe does not DS stand a chance against PSP in US and Euro markets. When put side-by-side PSP appeals a lot more to westerners.

Funny. So what about the pics of the others stores that had people lining up.

 

[Deg]

The sales will make for interesting reading

 

[Cathcart]

The GBA2 will now be expected to continue the dual screens, the touch screen and mic, or otherwise appear to be a retreating step.

Nah, I think it's clear that Nintendo is going to do their own thing regardless of what people expect them to. Besides, the DS is not a GameBoy so GameBoy 2 has no reason to inherit from the DS (though I'd expect the wireless play to carry over).

As for who will win, I will. I'm getting them both and playing all of the good games. Maybe one or the other will have more good games, but who cares? I'LL PLAY THEM ALL! Meanwhile you guys go make a billion 20 page threads about them. Maybe you'll give Drinky an ulcer. Have fun!

 

[Smiles and Cries]

DS has won until I get my PSP next year...

Animal Crossing and some other titles may keep my DS closer to the PSP for me

 

[Spike]

anyway, in response to the topic, i'm going to say no. the ds hasn't won already. it's a nine inning game and no one can say where the cards will fall. both systems have good games. ds may look like it has all its ducks in a row, but that bubble could pop at any moment. the real winner here is the gamer.

I just can't believe that drohne posted this. Who hijacked his account?!?!

I agree 110%.

 

[Cubsfan23]

These type of threads are pointless unless somebody bookmarks them.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Is Nintendo making money on DS hardware? YES!
Did Nintendo DS prevent PSP from coming to market unchallenged? YES!
Did Nintendo DS force Sony to pretty much take heavier losses on PSP upfront? YES!
Did Nintendo make a portable that was more durable, cheaper and with better battery life (things that REALLY matter for a portable)? YES!
Is Nintendo DS cheaper to make games for? YES!
Does Nintendo DS offer things PSP does not? YES!
Did Nintendo DS launch before PSP without cannibalizing Nintendo's existing cash cow (GBA)? YES!
Will GBA probably continue to kick any other portable's ass in sales going into next year? YES!
Is Nintendo DS ultimatly helping Nintendo's overall image? YES!
Does Nintendo actually have room to start a price war with PSP? YES!
By the time PSP hits any kind of stride, will Nintendo have an even more powerful, capable, durable, cheaper & better battery life GameBoy ready to compete? YES!

Mission accomplished IMO.

 

[Monk]

Is Nintendo making money on DS hardware? YES!
Did Nintendo DS prevent PSP from coming to market unchallenged? YES!
Did Nintendo DS force Sony to pretty much take heavier losses on PSP upfront? YES!
Did Nintendo make a portable that was more durable, cheaper and with better battery life (things that REALLY matter for a portable)? YES!
Is Nintendo DS cheaper to make games for? YES!
Does Nintendo DS offer things PSP does not? YES!
Did Nintendo DS launch before PSP without cannibalizing Nintendo's existing cash cow (GBA)? YES!
Will GBA probably continue to kick any other portable's ass in sales going into next year? YES!
Is Nintendo DS ultimatly helping Nintendo's overall image? YES!
Does Nintendo actually have room to start a price war with PSP? YES!
By the time PSP hits any kind of stride, will Nintendo have an even more powerful, capable, durable, cheaper & better battery life GameBoy ready to compete? YES!
Am I am idiot? YES!

Mission accomplished IMO.

Sigh.

 

[Hardknock]

Is Nintendo making money on DS hardware? YES!
Did Nintendo DS prevent PSP from coming to market unchallenged? YES!
Did Nintendo DS force Sony to pretty much take heavier losses on PSP upfront? YES!
Did Nintendo make a portable that was more durable, cheaper and with better battery life (things that REALLY matter for a portable)? YES!
Is Nintendo DS cheaper to make games for? YES!
Does Nintendo DS offer things PSP does not? YES!
Did Nintendo DS launch before PSP without cannibalizing Nintendo's existing cash cow (GBA)? YES!
Will GBA probably continue to kick any other portable's ass in sales going into next year? YES!
Is Nintendo DS ultimatly helping Nintendo's overall image? YES!
Does Nintendo actually have room to start a price war with PSP? YES!
By the time PSP hits any kind of stride, will Nintendo have an even more powerful, capable, durable, cheaper & better battery life GameBoy ready to compete? YES!

Mission accomplished IMO.

Haha, very good points!

 

[GaimeGuy]

Is Nintendo making money on DS hardware? YES!
Did Nintendo DS prevent PSP from coming to market unchallenged? YES!
Did Nintendo DS force Sony to pretty much take heavier losses on PSP upfront? YES!
Did Nintendo make a portable that was more durable, cheaper and with better battery life (things that REALLY matter for a portable)? YES!
Is Nintendo DS cheaper to make games for? YES!
Does Nintendo DS offer things PSP does not? YES!
Did Nintendo DS launch before PSP without cannibalizing Nintendo's existing cash cow (GBA)? YES!
Will GBA probably continue to kick any other portable's ass in sales going into next year? YES!
Is Nintendo DS ultimatly helping Nintendo's overall image? YES!
Does Nintendo actually have room to start a price war with PSP? YES!
By the time PSP hits any kind of stride, will Nintendo have an even more powerful, capable, durable, cheaper & better battery life GameBoy ready to compete? YES!

Mission accomplished IMO.

This assumes that Nintendo wasn't BSing about the DS being the 3rd pillar (which I still think they were BSing about. The DS is the new gameboy, but I could be proven wrong)

 

[Bishman]

Sigh.

Respond back! Lets see the counter.

 

[drohne]

actually that post was meant to be an illiterate parody of the sort of sententious dithering that so often passes for clear-eyed analysis on boards like these. note the ridiculous clichés and abundantly mixed metaphors (nine inning card games and a bubble full of ducks)! i thought it was too broad, but maybe it should have been broader. :/

my point, insofar as i had one, was that there are more tedious things than hate and fandom.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

This assumes that Nintendo wasn't BSing about the DS being the 3rd pillar (which I still think they were BSing about. The DS is the new gameboy, but I could be proven wrong)

So it's called the GameBoy DS? NO!
So they're phasing out GBA? NO!
So they've stopped making GBA games? NO!
So the Nintendo DS isn't that much different than the GBA? NO!

Not to sorta beat a dead horse, but why (in a business sence, and when you take in the fact that they're competing with a strong opponant) would Nintendo replace GBA with Nintendo DS when they can simply call it "3RD tier" keep selling it and come out with a true GameBoy successor that not only keeps them competing, but gives them an excuse to release a new portable just in case. They left the GameBoy name out of the DS for a reason.

 

[GaimeGuy]

What I mean is, I think they did it JUST to save face.

They SAY that the DS is the 3rd pillar, but it's just a ruse so that they aren't fucked on the offchance that it fails. And if it succeeds, they're labeled as "BRILLIANT" for making a new sector.

 

[cvxfreak]

The DS certainly isn't the true successor of the GBA, either, so it can't be pillar #1 or #2 since those are still occupied by living systems that still continue to sell. Hence, DS = pillar #3.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

So it's called the GameBoy DS? NO!
So they're phasing out GBA? NO!
So they've stopped making GBA games? NO!
So the Nintendo DS isn't that much different than the GBA? NO!

Not to sorta beat a dead horse, but why (in a business sence, and when you take in the fact that they're competing with a strong opponant) would Nintendo replace GBA with Nintendo DS when they can simply call it "3RD tier" keep selling it and come out with a true GameBoy successor that not only keeps them competing, but gives them an excuse to release a new portable just in case. They left the GameBoy name out of the DS for a reason.

You are assuming that it's entirely up to Nintendo to decide whether it's a GBA successor. Public perception will dictate that just as much, if not more than what Nintendo would like to happen.

And to say that the DS and GBA are happily co-existing after one month of sales is incredibly dumb. You have to be an idiot in this day and age to think that when a new generation of hardware is introduced that the old one instantly falls off the map. It has never happened and it's doubtful it ever will. Maybe if the GBA is still kicking along a year after the PSP is released

The third pillar stuff is PR bullplop, a way for Nintendo to backtrack if the DS had bombed horribly. Sony kept producing and supporting the PSOne after 2000 but did anyone call the PS2 a third pillar? NO! As Nintendo throw more of their big games on the system, particularly Pokemon, it's only going to cement the DS as the next Nintendo handheld.

And leaving out the name isn't some clinching proof. It's a trivial marketing matter at best. Was the N64 any less the SNES successor for not being the SNES2/Advance/Next? NO! Nintendo left themselves a backdoor escape incase the PSP steamrolled their handheld marketshare, that's all.

That the Revolution will apparantly apply the same thinking to the console market, says more about Nintendo's true thinking than not calling it a Gameboy.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Is Nintendo making money on DS hardware? YES!
Did Nintendo DS prevent PSP from coming to market unchallenged? YES!
Did Nintendo DS force Sony to pretty much take heavier losses on PSP upfront? YES!
Did Nintendo make a portable that was more durable, cheaper and with better battery life (things that REALLY matter for a portable)? YES!
Is Nintendo DS cheaper to make games for? YES!
Does Nintendo DS offer things PSP does not? YES!
Did Nintendo DS launch before PSP without cannibalizing Nintendo's existing cash cow (GBA)? YES!
Will GBA probably continue to kick any other portable's ass in sales going into next year? YES!
Is Nintendo DS ultimatly helping Nintendo's overall image? YES!
Does Nintendo actually have room to start a price war with PSP? YES!
By the time PSP hits any kind of stride, will Nintendo have an even more powerful, capable, durable, cheaper & better battery life GameBoy ready to compete? YES!

Mission accomplished IMO.

If the DS sales are stunted enough, will Nintendo make enough money to cover the R&D and Marketing costs of the DS? No!
Is Nintendo's lack of third party killer apps giving PSP leeway into the market? YES!
Will tech prices go down when PSP momentum starts, and Sony's smart tactical business sense help them turn a loss into great profit? YES!
Does Sony manufacture many PSP parts in-house, meaning they help control the pricing of the unit? YES!
Did Sony make a portable that's more attractive, to the eyes and consumer, Has a huge technical edge, is more useful, more powerful, more well rounded and with a good price, battery life and good durability, as well as many expansion options (Things that REALLY matter for a portable, or else people would stop buying iPods and buy 128MBs, and stop buying 400+ dollar Pocket PCs and buy greyscale PDAs)? YES!
Does the amount of money it makes to develop a game depend on the developer, NOT the hardware? YES!
Are you able to introduce a new level of gaming with the PSP's console-level technology and horsepower? YES!
Does the PSP offer things that the DS does not, in the minds of gamers and consumers? YES!
Could the PSP potentially cause Nintendo to burn a hole in their pocket by shutting down the resource intensive DS project in mindshare, as well as gaining a minority share in the portable hardware market (No matter how small, it hurts Nintendo, even if the market grows, if it does not double overnight Nintendo loses marketshare, GBA included)? YES!
Is the PSP favorable in image sitting next to the DS, therefore perhaps staining Nintendo's image a bit, much in the way the Genesis did to the Super NES in the US? YES!
Will Sony's self manufacturing many of the PSP's parts and manufacturing ability, as well as control over PSP products give them some wiggle room in the pricing department? YES!
Does a lower price make a system more desirable compared to a more expensive, sexier, more successful machine (A La Gamecube VS PS2/Xbox, Neo Geo Pocket Color vs Game Boy Color, various Cell Phone wars)? NO!
By the time the GBA successor hits it's stride could Sony lower the PSP price exponetically, as well as begin a hype machine for it's successor, and the PSP could still hold the features crown due to Nintendo's modesty in putting features into machines? YES!

There's still an uphill battle ahead for both. To just outright declare either the winner is not smart. You can, however, make your predictions.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

krypt: Your point was retarded. The GBA base is large because there wasn't a viable, competent alternative. I'd say the upgrade path post-GBA is pretty obvious,

Game Boy More Advance?

The third pillar stuff is PR bullplop, a way for Nintendo to backtrack if the DS had bombed horribly. Sony kept producing and supporting the PSOne after 2000 but did anyone call the PS2 a third pillar? NO!

Were just as many PS1 games and systems being made as PS2 games? Did the PS2 comes out 3.5 years after the PS1? Was it significantly different in both input and output devices? Did Sony continue to claim the true PS2 was still coming?

 

[puck1337]

The third pillar stuff is PR bullplop, a way for Nintendo to backtrack if the DS had bombed horribly. Sony kept producing and supporting the PSOne after 2000 but did anyone call the PS2 a third pillar? NO! As Nintendo throw more of their big games on the system, particularly Pokemon, it's only going to cement the DS as the next Nintendo handheld.

Just out of curiosity, is there anything wrong with this approach? I mean, why the fuck would they want to take a chance at messing up their pristine GameBoy brand? It seems that neither side of this argument sees this as a good thing, and I can't understand why that is.

It only makes sense that they use a different brand for the DS line, because they *should* be able to bail out on a moment's notice and still have somewhere to call home. If they were calling the DS, say, GameBoy Extreme, and it tanked, they'd pretty much have screwed the pooch, wouldn't they?

Is it a 3rd pillar? I personally don't think that it is, simply because it doesn't bear any responsibility within Nintendo at this point in time. It's an experiment that can be abandoned if things go badly, and whose successful ideas will be incorporated into future products when the time is right.

 

[evilromero]

I'm ready to throw up after all this hysteria. I just want me some Ridge Racers. I also want me some Yoshi's Touch n Go. Is that so bad?

 

[Rocket Punch]

If the DS sales are stunted enough, will Nintendo make enough money to cover the R&D and Marketing costs of the DS? No!
Is Nintendo's lack of third party killer apps giving PSP leeway into the market? YES!
Will tech prices go down when PSP momentum starts, and Sony's smart tactical business sense help them turn a loss into great profit? YES!
Does Sony manufacture many PSP parts in-house, meaning they help control the pricing of the unit? YES!
Did Sony make a portable that's more attractive, to the eyes and consumer, Has a huge technical edge, is more useful, more powerful, more well rounded and with a good price, battery life and good durability, as well as many expansion options (Things that REALLY matter for a portable, or else people would stop buying iPods and buy 128MBs, and stop buying 400+ dollar Pocket PCs and buy greyscale PDAs)? YES!
Does the amount of money it makes to develop a game depend on the developer, NOT the hardware? YES!
Are you able to introduce a new level of gaming with the PSP's console-level technology and horsepower? YES!
Does the PSP offer things that the DS does not, in the minds of gamers and consumers? YES!
Could the PSP potentially cause Nintendo to burn a hole in their pocket by shutting down the resource intensive DS project in mindshare, as well as gaining a minority share in the portable hardware market (No matter how small, it hurts Nintendo, even if the market grows, if it does not double overnight Nintendo loses marketshare, GBA included)? YES!
Is the PSP favorable in image sitting next to the DS, therefore perhaps staining Nintendo's image a bit, much in the way the Genesis did to the Super NES in the US? YES!
Will Sony's self manufacturing many of the PSP's parts and manufacturing ability, as well as control over PSP products give them some wiggle room in the pricing department? YES!
Does a lower price make a system more desirable compared to a more expensive, sexier, more successful machine (A La Gamecube VS PS2/Xbox, Neo Geo Pocket Color vs Game Boy Color, various Cell Phone wars)? NO!
By the time the GBA successor hits it's stride could Sony lower the PSP price exponetically, as well as begin a hype machine for it's successor, and the PSP could still hold the features crown due to Nintendo's modesty in putting features into machines? YES!

There's still an uphill battle ahead for both. To just outright declare either the winner is not smart. You can, however, make your predictions.

Wow, that's so weak.

Here, I'll help out: Will sony's PSP sell to people who pay money in cash currency for said product once it reaches our shores while they hold a fart and think about how tight these new shoes they got for christmas are? YES!

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Just out of curiosity, is there anything wrong with this approach? I mean, why the fuck would they want to take a chance at messing up their pristine GameBoy brand? It seems that neither side of this argument sees this as a good thing, and I can't understand why that is.

It only makes sense that they use a different brand for the DS line, because they *should* be able to bail out on a moment's notice and still have somewhere to call home. If they were calling the DS, say, GameBoy Extreme, and it tanked, they'd pretty much have screwed the pooch, wouldn't they?

Is it a 3rd pillar? I personally don't think that it is, simply because it doesn't bear any responsibility within Nintendo at this point in time. It's an experiment that can be abandoned if things go badly, and whose successful ideas will be incorporated into future products when the time is right.

What's wrong with it is how easy it's being presented that if something goes wrong with the DS then it's whip out a new Gameboy and it's business as usual.

It all goes back to the DS being an ill-thought out kneejerk reaction to the PSP. Basically Nintendo have buggered themselves up all on their own. The DS either had to be a colossal failure or a soaring success. If it ends up where it seems to be heading then Nintendo are going to have problems with the above idea of the GBA2 quick save and are not very effectively going to put a halt on Sony getting more than just a foot in the door.

The DS is the next Nintendo handheld. It looks like a handheld. It is a generation above the GBA tech wise. It has new features. It has sequels and series that are associated with Nintendo and the GBA. If you have a GBA and are buying a DS then you are upgrading. Nintendo may not call it a Gameboy, and may try present it in their PR as a third pillar but everything else they are doing with it is placing it as the GBA successor.

This ties Nintendo's hands as far as releasing a 'real' GBA2 is concerned for at least a few years. What this leaves Sony with is a Nintendo handheld, weakened by not having the Gameboy name. Now Nintendo have to put more effort into raising the DS's brandname in relation to a certain 'Playstation' brandname. It's too late to sweep it under the carpet. If they do that now they give Sony a clear field to embed themselves as much as they want.

So now they are in the position of starting from scratch and they've left one of their biggest assests in the handheld market at home. Nintendo have made Sony gaining a huge chunk of the handheld market an inevitability.

This third pillar idea, the halfway house nature of the DS has left Nintendo needlessly vunerable.