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Hollywood Hit With Writers Strike After Talks With AMPTP Fail; Guild Slams Studios For “Gig Economy” Mentality

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
You didn't answer my questions. I'll repeat.
I cant believe you still dont understand my view without actually saying it. But since you can only understand in a very literal sense, put it this way.

I love it.

And let reiterate. Act like an ass, get treated like an ass. You dont understand that concept. It goes to show how emotionally unstable unions are if pruned trees and summer heat are leading to mayhem. I wash my car and do outdoor chores in my driveway in summer heat too. It's so hot, I take a break a few times instead of just doing it all in one shot. All I do is go inside and take a shower. Problem solved.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
I cant believe you still dont understand my view without actually saying it. But since you can only understand in a very literal sense, put it this way.
I want you to answer the questions I asked instead of avoiding them. That's a fair ask for a standard discussion, is it not? No need to be afraid of a few simple questions.

I love it.
Which part?

And let reiterate. Act like an ass, get treated like an ass. You dont understand that concept. It goes to show how emotionally unstable unions are if pruned trees and summer heat are leading to mayhem. I wash my car and do outdoor chores in my driveway in summer heat too. It's so hot, I take a break a few times instead of just doing it all in one shot. All I do is go inside and take a shower. Problem solved.
Changing the subject again with strawman arguments.


Look, you can either discuss things directly, or not. You will then be judged by the debate gods on how many subject avoidance tactics or logical fallacies you used.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I want you to answer the questions I asked instead of avoiding them. That's a fair ask for a standard discussion, is it not? No need to be afraid of a few simple questions.


Which part?


Changing the subject again with strawman arguments.


Look, you can either discuss things directly, or not. You will then be judged by the debate gods on how many subject avoidance tactics or logical fallacies you used.
Just curious, are you autistic? I dont mean that in a bad way. I'm just thinking I might have to reword my responses if you have issues understanding things.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Just curious, are you autistic? I dont mean that in a bad way.
No I'm a hamster 🐹

I'm just thinking I might have to reword my responses if you have issues understanding things.
I'm thinking you should answer the questions that I asked you so that I can have answers to the questions that I asked you.

I'll repeat

Do you acknowledge that NBC Universal pruned the trees so that they barely have any shade left?

Do you acknowledge that there is evidence to suggest that NBC Universal's statement that this is a normal preplanned procedure is false?

Do you acknowledge that it's probably the case that NBC Universal went out of their way to spend money and resources and possibly violated city ordinances in order to make it actively more uncomfortable for the protestors who are lawfully protesting and expressing their freedom of speech?

Do you acknowledge that it's really hot in LA?

Do you acknowledge that this was a shitty thing to do?

Do you think the protesters deserved this action?
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
It's perspective. If all it takes to break this strike is a bit of direct southern california sun then they ain't that serious. Call me when a goon squad shows up and starts busting heads, or some food trucks serve brown avocado toast, or the sparkling water is flat...the HORROR!!!
According to a google check, SAG member fee is $3000(!) + a small annual fee + a small % of income. I hope all the SAG members are getting their money's worth out of it. Whats the point of paying this fee if you cant even get a good deal out of it?

During covid years, my company gave us record bonuses (one year it was a supplemental bonus on top of our normal bonus) and we got $500 two years in a row as extra money. Payroll even did the $500's in a way so it's net of taxes.

We all did a great job working from home. My company is not a remote worker kind of office so working from home is rare pre-covid for any role. But we did a great job, even including getting accustomed to god awful MS Teams (Skype works better). SO hey, makes sense. Business is good, get good bonuses and automatic annual merit pay increases. You dont even have to ask. You just get it.

And we all paid zero union dues.
 
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natjjohn

Member
According to a google check, SAG member fee is $3000(!) + a small annual fee + a small % of income. I hope all the SAG members are getting their money's worth out of it. Whats the point of paying this fee if you cant even get a good deal out of it?

During covid years, my company gave us record bonuses (one year it was a supplemental bonus on top of our normal bonus) and we got $500 two years in a row as extra money. Payroll even did the $500's in a way so it's net of taxes.

We all did a great job working from home. My company is not a remote worker kind of office so working from home is rare pre-covid for any role. But we did a great job, even including getting accustomed to god awful MS Teams (Skype works better). SO hey, makes sense. Business is good, get good bonuses and automatic annual merit pay increases. You dont even have to ask. You just get it.

And we all paid zero union dues.

You would’ve made more as a union most likely. Places with unions generally make double digit percentage more income vs places with no unions.
 

YCoCg

Member
I cant believe you still dont understand my view without actually saying it.
No we get it, you hate unions, you believe them to be anti-free worker or some shit and that unions are still ran by the mob so they "deserve it" but even I have to admit you jumped the shark on the previous with that "People that prefer to strike instead of work should be fired" bit, you really think people strike for the fun of it? That they're forgoing their main pay so they can go to the studio and stand outside for a jolly old good time because they're lazy? Dude come on even you know that's bullshit.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Actually, no. The healthcare industry is one that requires large amounts of high-level education, training and ultimately labor that literally saves lives. People only think the prices are inflated because they don't put as much financial value into health as they should through perspective.

Most overpricing that is there has to do with onerous regulation and other assorted government interference (much of it cheered on by hypnotized public) that allows for it. Not by accident, either.
If you say so…
 

FunkMiller

Member
LOL. You know what my answer is, since you couldnt figure it out? I'll repeat.

It's all part of the negotiation.

As I've said on GAF many times in different threads regarding crybabies at work --> act like a baby, get treated like a baby.

Yeah, NI’s right. It doesn’t matter what you’re told about an industry you know nothing about, or what evidence you’re presented with, you are so rabidly anti-union and rabidly anti-actors that nothing will stop you carrying on with
this bizarre hate boner you’ve got. If you were told the studios actively targeted individual strikers in a harassment campaign, you’d still say it was just part of the negotiation.

I can only assume this attitude is based on your own bad personal experiences with unions in an industry that has nothing to do with the entertainment industry, or some political bullshit, but conversing with you is pointless.
 
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thefool

Member
AA24 probably isn't paying bloated actor salaries, for starters. HIGHLY LIKELY Matthew Macconaguey is taking home a MUCH smaller paycheck for his AA24 film that he would for something like Interstellar. These are usually prestige projects or favors, not bill payer gigs.

But yes, keeping the budgets low and the scope tight allows them a better chance at making money and fewer "swing for the fences" power plays that might hit big, might lose big.

Obviously. Nor they are paying the deadbeat brother of an asset fund manager who got a nepotist appointment without any skill and now wants to get royalties for the rest of his life.

These are cartels, not unions. They belong to the same status quo as the studios and solely exist to limit access to the industry to a few well connected individuals.

Notice nobody defends the actual good solution for workers. The vast amount of talent all over the world in the entertainment community getting easy access to these jobs.
 
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Spyxos

Member
How can it be that Disney is shooting Snow White right now? Are they shooting abroad with unknown actors?
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
You guys got to understand that when there’s big demands and stakes it takes a long time for agreements.

And union contracts are one of them. There’s a big difference between buying an airplane from Boeing vs buying toilet paper for the office stalls.

And each side will do their dog and pony show with a million factors. Just as those tweet sag demands which are a huge laundry list of stuff.

No management team is going to green light 50 bullet points. And those sag recaps aren’t even genuine as some of the management counter offers aren’t even stated what they are but have vague subjective text nobody even knows what it is reading the tweet.

So I at least be transparent instead of trying to PR your way into a narrative.

It’s all part of the negotiation whether you guys realize it or not. The more things on the table the longer it takes. Every business proposal is the same. Ask for the moon but reality everyone knows half those billets are throw-aways as the real meat and potatoes are going to be 4-5 pointers on a PowerPoint proposal involving 15 things. I see it myself all the time but it still takes time to go over each point as you got to do due diligence.

Now if you want expedited results and agreements then you go in simplified with a small number of real issues you got and cut out the crap. That’s why this entire debate has been on a handful of issues like pay, residuals. Job security and ai. Not 50 other things.

You guys can blame management all you want, but management is the one trying to keep the door open so the company still goes on. They aren’t the ones trying to make the company come to halt which affects non-union workers and customers. So in reality who is really the selfish side? Even jobs nobody thinks about like after dinner cleaners who are hired by companies to clean desks and bathrooms after everyone goes home surely got called to not bother coming in. So you can see work stoppages affect a lot more people than you think. No doubt the guy with a company contract to fill all the vending machines isn’t coming in much. His income selling pop and chips just spiralled into the toilet as any sag job people aren’t working. So you can see the holistic view of it.

That’s what management views typically are. Holistic even beyond the job department they work for. My finance team does all the core analysis on anything related to the company. The goal is to help the company be as cost efficient as possible… NOT the cheapest. If that was the case every person hired would be offered $25000. But the better we do, the more money the company makes which in turn we can hire more people which we do. It’s a cycle. Every big company can shut down shitty product lines because it makes no money. But sometimes we keep them not only for strategic business reasons but as long as it covers the overhead (ie it makes enough money to solely cover the people costs) we do that too. The company is basically doing break even business just to keep jobs. Believe it or not they can do that. Many of you have zero view into the business and finance side of things or any kind of holistic view where things affect other departments and people.

If I have a beef with my boss i still show up to work. I’ll sort that out myself. I’m not going to tell everyone you’re on your own and I’ll be back in a week while I protest on the sidewalk. Act like an adult. Have some maturity and a holistic view on things working in a giant company with different functions. Not everyone is involved in the same issues. Don’t involve them.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
These are cartels, not unions. They belong to the same status quo as the studios and solely exist to limit access to the industry to a few well connected individuals.
I feel like youtube has COMPLETELY upended the content creation paradigm. My kids are watching crap on there that has MILLIONS of views, and it's just two kids running around inside their house while their (likely effects trained) dad adds some graphics. There are DOZENS of accounts like this with greater penetration than any Disney or CBS show. My kids have almost no cultural touchstones to things on TV, it's all this YT crap. So in 10-20 years it's that stuff that will control the nostalgia feels, nothing from DC, Marvel, or Hasbro.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
What are you talking about? The main beef of SAG is wages, residuals, job security and AI. In those tweets above, there's even something about SAG wanting compensation if an actor puts on his own make up and does their own hair.

There's no way you can deny unions are the ones who picket like babies on street corners, or those god awful stories and videos youd see of auto workers on strike in the 80s or 90s hitting cars who are trying to get into the parking lot. Hey, whomever it is trying to get in just wants to work. Dont bring your union picketing troubles to that guy. He's not even involved. It could be a guy delivering a pizza. Why hassle the guy and bang his car.

Who says non-union get worse pay? We get paid fine. And non-union workers (which include managers and bosses) are the ones who call the shots. Hey, nobody in my finance department is unionized. And they probably never are in any company. We tracks costs, P/L and approve stuff. And we are the ones who bring up inefficiencies (which includes recommending getting SG&A in line, which means firing people). Too bad. That's life and the way jobs work.

All the workers at my office get paid fine. We pay no insurance either (Canada), nobody is overworked, and we dont need sick days because in these kinds of jobs nobody cares or tracks whether someone is getting close to going over the 5 or 10 day sick day policy. We get paid regardless if we go to the dentist or go on vacation or are sick all week with a fever. That's the perks of non-union salaried people. Management will always let things slide as long as you do good work and dont act like a jackass.

As I've stressed, non-union jobs are flexible. Aside from that skimpy job description outlining a few paragraphs and 10 bullet points what you do, everything else is fluid.

If union wants big guaranteed multi year contracts with 86 bullet points, then you got to live and die by the contract. And nobody says management ha to give in to every bullet point either. If youre worth it, they'll say yes. If not, they'll say Reject. Cant expect to win everything in life.

You didn't address ANYTHING I noted... Things that are happening and have happened in the last 10-11 months. You're so anti-union that you can't even address something that is REAL that affected people's lives and livelihood.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I feel like youtube has COMPLETELY upended the content creation paradigm. My kids are watching crap on there that has MILLIONS of views, and it's just two kids running around inside their house while their (likely effects trained) dad adds some graphics. There are DOZENS of accounts like this with greater penetration than any Disney or CBS show. My kids have almost no cultural touchstones to things on TV, it's all this YT crap. So in 10-20 years it's that stuff that will control the nostalgia feels, nothing from DC, Marvel, or Hasbro.
My nieces and nephews are the same. The only cable tv they’d watch as young kids is Nickelodeon kinds of tv channels only because their parents would just default the tv stations to those channels so they got something to watch.

The second they were old enough to do their own surfing and YouTubing, they mostly watch random stuff or cartoons or whatever. Some of it is made by professional writers and companies doing streaming episodes, but a lot are just random people doing videos or Til tok snippets.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
You didn't address ANYTHING I noted... Things that are happening and have happened in the last 10-11 months. You're so anti-union that you can't even address something that is REAL that affected people's lives and livelihood.
There’s two sides to every story and negotiation in a business deal.

Consider me someone on the other side of the table giving you holistic company views. There’s more to a company than narrow union views. As I said many times which zero union people will ever take into account, there’s other people caught in crossfire of no work protests. Business still has to go on. That’s something that can never be debated. The difference is management have that responsibility. Individual union workers don’t. That’s why manager and high ups aren’t even allowed to be union members. Because the demands of individuals goes against holistic business operations and needing to worry about all employees whether union or not.

Since union negotiations involve a lot of factors and multi year contracts, think of it as pro leagues. If you want to play hardball you better wear a cup.
 
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vsXgU0H.png


One big problem that these writers are having is that an AI could literally write a script as well as or better than they could these days...
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
vsXgU0H.png


One big problem that these writers are having is that an AI could literally write a script as well as or better than they could these days...

There's that old saying "you get what you pay for". Hollywood has been taking advantage of the streaming paradigm shift to get away with paying writers less and less and making them do more in less time in worse working conditions, so it doesn't surprise me that current writing is oftentimes scraping the bottom of the barrel. Hopefully, if the writers are able to get a bigger slice of the pie and more investment into the shows themselves, they'll have more incentive to write good stuff. Also, this will encourage better more expensive writers to take on more work.
 

ProtoByte

Member
This is an extremely good point.


No, that's not it. We know a lot of these "writers and actors" are broke dreamers who selectively revel in the starving artist stereotype. Thing is that that's their problem. They should find a different job if they're so poor chasing these ones.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
There's that old saying "you get what you pay for". Hollywood has been taking advantage of the streaming paradigm shift to get away with paying writers less and less and making them do more in less time in worse working conditions, so it doesn't surprise me that current writing is oftentimes scraping the bottom of the barrel. Hopefully, if the writers are able to get a bigger slice of the pie and more investment into the shows themselves, they'll have more incentive to write good stuff. Also, this will encourage better more expensive writers to take on more work.
It's a sign of the times. A lot of people just like watching short articles or videos which are not Hollywood creations. Whether it's kids or adults, I'm am positive almost everyone doesn't just glue themselves to newspapers, magazines and hollywood productions like before the net. Ok, maybe my 84 year old parents do (they've never had a celphone), but for anyone else who knows how to a use a PC or cellphone they probably do a combo surfing the net and getting the content from nobodies (where most dont even do it as a FT job but just upload shit after dinner when they have time) and the rest is traditional Hollywood content like TV shows and movies.

It's not about scraping the bottom of the barrel because 99% of the stuff people sift through on social media is just everyday people uploading videos or doing tweets. It might be good, it might be trash. But people have no problem going for that content. For entertainment (which some of us brought up pages ago) you dont need to be Shakespeare to be good at it. Thats why there's legions of media wannabes. There is zero mandatory qualifications. Anyone can do it. That's why there's so many YT stars.

You just got to do something entertaining. And it can even be a 5 year old kid eating chocolate cake. Hey maybe the kid has 2M views and the parent who uploaded it years ago has made good click money off it. You never know. Put it this way, some of the popular YT stars doing FPS and map layout videos probably makes more money than the average Hollywood writer. And that's them playing video games getting their start probably during the Xbox 360 days doing Call of Duty videos on some shitty 480p video feed before YT upgraded to 720p and 1080p. But hey, it's entertaining. I watch that stuff too. I dont care if he does the videos in his garage with zero budget and zero SAG membership. Nobody cares either except subbing to his channel for more good videos.

If breaking into Hollywood getting good contract money is tough, then use those so-called skilled writing and acting jobs and be a YT star? Surely, they can use their awesome skills and beat moms and dads doing dopey tik tok content or 5 minute videos. But if they think they cant, think social media is low brow content, dont want to do that route, or prefer the job security of a union contract then so be it. But people have choices in life. Nobody says a media employee has to be a SAG member. Mr. Call of Duty dude who analyzes the bullet spread of AK-47s vs ACR isnt.

Most media IMO isn't even well written nor do people really care that much about. I think more people care about the acting (esp if it's a well known celeb who is the face of the TV show or movie) and having good production values so it doesn't look cheap. I'd put writing below those factors. Thats probably why all these brainless cartoons and Superhero movies make tons of cash while some cleverly written drama might make nothing. One is whiz bang spectacle. The other is who cares, maybe I'll watch it 2 years later on Netflix if I get around to it.

No, that's not it. We know a lot of these "writers and actors" are broke dreamers who selectively revel in the starving artist stereotype. Thing is that that's their problem. They should find a different job if they're so poor chasing these ones.
That's what you get when there's no required qualifications. As Evilore said pages back "swarms of fill ins waiting". Pretty sure there arent swarms of doctors and IT guys waiting. They get gobbled up so fast, it always seems like like there is undersupply.

But when has anyone in the history of media and entertainment ever heard: "Oh shit, the industry is in crisis mode. We dont have enough writer or actors". I've never heard it.

The problem of whatever shit compensation they claim is really aimed at other people. There's too damn many of you going after the same jobs dumbing down the offers. The media people with skilled credential of an arts or journalism degree should be looking back at all the zero qualification people and telling them to fuck off and let them have priority access. Media companies just follow whats out there. Lucky for media people there's a SAG contract to artifically prop up compensation, whereas most workers dont have that and live and die by what is offered. But hey look at that. Even nonunion people can get a job and good pay too. So it shows management doesnt nickel and dime non-union workers to the past penny. They'll pay if they need the talent or fight for a tight supply of people (ie. tech companies fighting for coders which is a very technical job you can just wake up one day and wing it as a tech professional thinking you can learn it in the next 24 hrs)

Everyone has read up on celebs and it's not like they all graduated from Julliard. Some got into the career doing arts and theatre. Then you read some who were usually people who were kind of down and out struggling, they audition for a part, do a great job out of nowhere and 20 years later they are mega million stars. Hey, thats awesome. The guy went from janitor to celeb. So anyone can be successful.

But just like sports where a ton of these guys come from nothing, you get the mega stars promoted making it look easy making bank, but most people who gun for pro leagues sports dont even get drafted. A small number are good enough for minor leagues. An even smaller number is good for semi-pro or pro leagues in crappy leagues. And then the cream of the crop are the Major League stars where the minimum salary is $1M no matter what.

Hey, the fame and stardom is there. There are zero academic or trade school qualifications. You dont even need to graduate high school. It's all talent and personality. And there's a shitload of them hoping to get a great career on that alone.
 
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FunkMiller

Member
No, that's not it. We know a lot of these "writers and actors" are broke dreamers who selectively revel in the starving artist stereotype. Thing is that that's their problem. They should find a different job if they're so poor chasing these ones.

Let me guess..they deserve what they get, because they're all woke idiots, right?
 

FunkMiller

Member
There's that old saying "you get what you pay for". Hollywood has been taking advantage of the streaming paradigm shift to get away with paying writers less and less and making them do more in less time in worse working conditions, so it doesn't surprise me that current writing is oftentimes scraping the bottom of the barrel. Hopefully, if the writers are able to get a bigger slice of the pie and more investment into the shows themselves, they'll have more incentive to write good stuff. Also, this will encourage better more expensive writers to take on more work.

Indeed. All I’m hearing is “Wah! These Hollywood morons are all terrible at their job! They don’t deserve to get paid more!”

Which betrays a complete lack of understanding of how the business actually works.

Pay peanuts… you get monkeys. Get forced into paying more… you’re more careful about who you give your money to.

Also, writers and actors getting paid more means more transparency around actual viewing figures... which means all that woke shit gets properly assessed.

The level of stupidity in those only motivated by their own politics is, as ever, high.
 

ProtoByte

Member
Let me guess..they deserve what they get, because they're all woke idiots, right?
No. The starving Hollywood hopeful long predates the wokening of the 2010s. They need to realise that they are not owed a place in film or TV simply just for being in California or being in a union.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Yeah, when the lead actors and directors are willing to give up their massive salaries then every one else gets a bit more. Why isn't this message being pushed more????
Because it’s one of their own. When someone on their end makes giant bank they all shut their mouths hoping nobody notices. But a VP or Exec making millions trying to do a 9-5 job managing a department or company somehow that’s evil and too much pay out.

Where are all the poor media people asking Tom cruise to share some of the $100M he made doing top gun maverick? They wouldn’t dare. He’d probably tell them all to fuck off and make your own money too.

That’s 4x what bob iger made, and supposedly $25M of bobs $27M is tied up in stock.
 
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FunkMiller

Member
Yeah, when the lead actors and directors are willing to give up their massive salaries then every one else gets a bit more. Why isn't this message being pushed more????

Why, it's almost as if Hollywood would greatly benefit from much smaller budgets, and much more equitable and fair pay to everyone involved...

You and Beige keep making an argument like anyone is defending the big mega movie stars. Nobody is. This is about the ordinary jobbing actor, who isn't famous or rich. The strike is about making their lives better. And A24 are doing a very good job of showing the major studios how to do it.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
Why, it's almost as if Hollywood would greatly benefit from much smaller budgets, and much more equitable and fair pay to everyone involved...

You and Beige keep making an argument like anyone is defending the big mega movie stars. Nobody is. This is about the ordinary jobbing actor, who isn't famous or rich. The strike is about making their lives better. And A24 are doing a very good job of showing the major studios how to do it.
Sure, if the lead actors/directors weren't taking up 10-25% of the total budget, there would be SUBSTANTIALLY more $$$ for the rest of the team. I'm glad we agree.

Doing this doesn't require squat from the producers, the actor and writer unions (as well as the other trade ones) could agree to it all on their own in an equitable profit sharing agreement. Strike over!
 

FunkMiller

Member
Doing this doesn't require squat from the producers, the actor and writer unions (as well as the other trade ones) could agree to it all on their own in an equitable profit sharing agreement. Strike over!

Why should the actors and the writers have to profit share more, and the movie studios not? Your entire opinion seems to be based on the creatives having to take all of the pain and make all of the effort, while the studios carry on as they are.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Why, it's almost as if Hollywood would greatly benefit from much smaller budgets, and much more equitable and fair pay to everyone involved...

You and Beige keep making an argument like anyone is defending the big mega movie stars. Nobody is. This is about the ordinary jobbing actor, who isn't famous or rich. The strike is about making their lives better. And A24 are doing a very good job of showing the major studios how to do it.
I haven’t seen once the major stars being aimed at. It’s all aimed at the execs. And all big stars are making more than bob iger and definitely more than lower level VPs.

But hey the company and major stars and popular writers/directors are getting millions because the company thinks they are worth it. Star power. Those SAG charts are tossed in the trash for their own off-chart deal. Hollywood media value is often heavily dependent on who makes it and who is on camera. It doesn’t even have to be the content is even good. It might be dumb tv shows or movies but as long as people enjoy the content (star power is often the key draw) then they make the big money and it sells tickets.

What all everyday SAG really want is fewer people in the industry fighting for roles (that’s why the industry is so fragmented with seemingly zero stable 9-5 work) and the SAG charts to apply to all so even big stars get paid the chart rates. In return the company would pool a lot more savings from them and in turn could jack up the rate charts so the collective whole all get a boost.

But it’s not like that. Media is a hit driven industry of big paid stars and lowly workers who can barely find roles. On the other hand, my job in finance is as stable as it goes. The other sector that has roller coaster work is tax time where all the H&R Block guys come out for a few months. Every industry is different and you got to live with the pay and opportunity dynamics.

The big stars collectively make tons more money than the floor of execs. It’s like sports. Most of every teams payroll in in the star players. Management is much lower. The only person who will contend with the top player is the owner. The rest of the people working there are like the bottom actors and writers. Snack bar and parking lot workers making min wage. Every game day probably has 500 min wage workers. And up all their wages and it’s less than one pro player playing that night.

I said it a million times. The money is out there. But for the media industry that value and boosted pay outs skew to stars and management. Other industries are not so extreme.

Unions like concrete details on paper. They can adjust that too. No star celeb can make more than $1M per movie. If there can be wage floors and pay tiers, you can also have pay ceilings. All those off the charts millionaires aren’t even adhering to the charts of their own union. They are doing their own thing while the rest of their members are left in the dust. That’s how it is.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
Why should the actors and the writers have to profit share more, and the movie studios not? Your entire opinion seems to be based on the creatives having to take all of the pain and make all of the effort, while the studios carry on as they are.
If you hold up a studio that is notorious for not paying stars big bucks as being the only one that can comply with SAG/SWA 'demands' then the solution seems obvious.

When multi-millionaire actors and writers say 'us' and 'we' while pontificating on the picket line, they really mean 'them' because they don't seem willing to address the issue either.

If you want to talk about a pay gap, just compare the lead actors pay with the side actors, much less the extras, that share the screen with them. It's the Mariana Trench. When is such a gap "well earned, slay queen!" and ok versus "evil" and "greedy"?

We all know why, it's because the creatives can clearly see the value Margo Robbie brings to a project (12.5 MILLION for Barbie, almost TEN PERCENT of the 145mill total budget!!!!!!!!) but they don't value the beaurocrat exec who gets all the money together and makes the entire thing happen AT ALL. Very dehumanizing.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
If you hold up a studio that is notorious for not paying stars big bucks as being the only one that can comply with SAG/SWA 'demands' then the solution seems obvious.

When multi-millionaire actors and writers say 'us' and 'we' while pontificating on the picket line, they really mean 'them' because they don't seem willing to address the issue either.

If you want to talk about a pay gap, just compare the lead actors pay with the side actors, much less the extras, that share the screen with them. It's the Mariana Trench. When is such a gap "well earned, slay queen!" and ok versus "evil" and "greedy"?

We all know why, it's because the creatives can clearly see the value Margo Robbie brings to a project (12.5 MILLION for Barbie, almost TEN PERCENT of the 145mill total budget!!!!!!!!) but they don't value the beaurocrat exec who gets all the money together and makes the entire thing happen AT ALL. Very dehumanizing.
Aside from bob iger, a $12.5M to make one movie is probably more than every other exec or VP at Disney. And those jobs have to oversea entire job functions or departments.

Hey, don’t blame management and superstars. They’ve negotiated their own high value deals. Just like google somehow offering tech grads $150,000 out of school. Management sees value potential, they’ll offer big bucks for value potential. If they don’t, then they’ll offer the guy $35,000 and not care if he accepts or not. Money is out there. And if there’s one kind of industry that has big bucks floating around is media or sports. It’s just that it’s heavily concentrated in the all stars. That’s how the industry works.
 

FunkMiller

Member
We all know why, it's because the creatives can clearly see the value Margo Robbie brings to a project (12.5 MILLION for Barbie, almost TEN PERCENT of the 145mill total budget!!!!!!!!) but they don't value the beaurocrat exec who gets all the money together and makes the entire thing happen AT ALL. Very dehumanizing.

You're talking about the movie's producers. Some of whom do indeed earn their money. To properly understand the role of a producer, have a look at the Producers Guild Of America website: https://producersguild.org/ There are a lot of 'producers' out there though that don't do a fucking thing.

There are many executives in these companies who have little to nothing to do with actually putting the movies and TV shows together, and are cashing in large checks anyway. It's laughable to suggest that all of those people are somehow anywhere near as valuable to a production as the writers and actors are.

Your entire point of view is hopelessly skewed against the actors and writers because of the horseshit you've seen on social media. Major movie companies are more and more geared towards giving executives jobs than they are creatives. That's why this strike is happening, and why the standards have dropped so much in the recent past.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
You're talking about the movie's producers. Some of whom do indeed earn their money. To properly understand the role of a producer, have a look at the Producers Guild Of America website: https://producersguild.org/ There are a lot of 'producers' out there though that don't do a fucking thing.

There are many executives in these companies who have little to nothing to do with actually putting the movies and TV shows together, and are cashing in large checks anyway. It's laughable to suggest that all of those people are somehow anywhere near as valuable to a production as the writers and actors are.

Your entire point of view is hopelessly skewed against the actors and writers because of the horseshit you've seen on social media. Major movie companies are more and more geared towards giving executives jobs than they are creatives. That's why this strike is happening, and why the standards have dropped so much in the recent past.
If what you say is true, that major studios have 10-20% of their budgets wrapped up in "dead weight" executives, then any studio that sheds that stuff IMMEDIATELY becomes incredibly nimble and profitable, able to pay top dollar for talent across the board. Such a studio would dominate in just a few years.

I'll be waiting.
 

FunkMiller

Member
If what you say is true, that major studios have 10-20% of their budgets wrapped up in "dead weight" executives, then any studio that sheds that stuff IMMEDIATELY becomes incredibly nimble and profitable, able to pay top dollar for talent across the board. Such a studio would dominate in just a few years.

I'll be waiting.

Never going to happen all the time the studios can keep their level of success or failure secret. Hence why the strike is a good thing, and anyone who wants a better standard in Hollywood should support it.
 

ProtoByte

Member
Why should the actors and the writers have to profit share more, and the movie studios not? Your entire opinion seems to be based on the creatives having to take all of the pain and make all of the effort, while the studios carry on as they are.
Because the movie studios are funding the films in the first place and A24 is very small fry in comparison. You keep making it seem like the studios do nothing, or as if it's easy to facilitate and manage the creatives doing their jobs effectively.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Because the movie studios are funding the films in the first place and A24 is very small fry in comparison. You keep making it seem like the studios do nothing, or as if it's easy to facilitate and manage the creatives doing their jobs effectively.

I'm not going to bash my head against a wall anymore, trying to explain how much dead weight there is at an executive level in the kinds of companies you're talking about. You seem quite happy to live in ignorance, believing that the studios are shining beacons of corporate virtue, and the actors and writers all deserve what they get, so I'll just let you get on with it.
 

Jack Videogames

Gold Member
I told Chatgpt to generate a fake script full of quips to be hip with the kids and it did this:

INT. ABANDONED LAB - NIGHT

The lab is filled with old, dusty equipment, and flickering lights cast eerie shadows on the walls. Our heroes, ZARA (late 20s, tech-savvy genius) and JAX (early 20s, sarcastic speedster), carefully make their way through the dimly lit room.

ZARA (adjusting her glasses) Well, Jax, looks like we stumbled upon another science experiment gone wrong.
JAX (grinning) Ah, the classic abandoned lab! I hope they left some snacks behind.

Zara rolls her eyes.
ZARA Seriously, Jax? You can never focus on the task at hand.
JAX (reluctantly) Fine, fine. Let's just find the McGuffin and get out of here.

They spot a mysterious glowing device on a nearby table.

ZARA (whispers) There it is. The Quantum Generator!
JAX (raising an eyebrow) Quantum what-now? Sounds like an energy drink for physics geeks.
ZARA (smirking) More like an energy drink for reality itself. It has the power to manipulate time and space.

Jax picks up the Quantum Generator, and it starts to hum with energy.

JAX (making silly poses) Time and space, huh? Let's see if it can do my laundry too.

Suddenly, the room starts to shake, and the lab equipment comes to life.

ZARA (panicking) Uh-oh, looks like the Quantum Generator is unstable!
JAX (mock concern) Oh no, we might break reality! Imagine the lawsuits!

They try to make their way to the exit, but the room morphs and changes around them.

JAX (grinning) Well, this is awkward. I didn't plan on redecorating the lab tonight.

ZARA (trying to keep her cool) Focus, Jax! We need to shut down the Quantum Generator before things get worse.
JAX (smirking) Don't worry, Zara. I've got this. Speedster to the rescue!

Jax uses his super speed to navigate through the room, dodging lasers and floating objects.

ZARA (shouting) Careful, Jax! Don't trip over your ego!
JAX (jokingly) Oh, please. My ego is like my charm—impossible to trip over!

As Jax reaches the Quantum Generator, he tries to shut it down, but the controls seem confusing.

JAX (teasingly) Who designed this thing, a crossword enthusiast?
ZARA (rolls her eyes) Enough with the jokes, just focus!
JAX (smiling) I got it! Shutting it down in 3... 2... uh-oh.

The Quantum Generator emits a blinding flash of light, and suddenly, everything freezes.

ZARA (startled) Jax, what did you do?!
JAX (playfully) Oops. Looks like I broke reality. Again.
ZARA (sighs) I knew I should have brought a backup speedster.

Suddenly, they hear a mysterious voice.

MYSTERIOUS VOICE (from the shadows) You meddling kids! You've disrupted the fabric of the multiverse!

JAX (whispering to Zara) Zoinks! Who's that?
ZARA (winking) Looks like we've got ourselves a supervillain.
JAX (smiling) I hope they come with a catchy theme song!

With reality frozen around them, Zara and Jax prepare for an epic battle.

I think it worked well, it's been ten minutes and I'm still cringing
 

FunkMiller

Member
I told Chatgpt to generate a fake script full of quips to be hip with the kids and it did this:

INT. ABANDONED LAB - NIGHT

The lab is filled with old, dusty equipment, and flickering lights cast eerie shadows on the walls. Our heroes, ZARA (late 20s, tech-savvy genius) and JAX (early 20s, sarcastic speedster), carefully make their way through the dimly lit room.

ZARA (adjusting her glasses) Well, Jax, looks like we stumbled upon another science experiment gone wrong.
JAX (grinning) Ah, the classic abandoned lab! I hope they left some snacks behind.

Zara rolls her eyes.
ZARA Seriously, Jax? You can never focus on the task at hand.
JAX (reluctantly) Fine, fine. Let's just find the McGuffin and get out of here.

They spot a mysterious glowing device on a nearby table.

ZARA (whispers) There it is. The Quantum Generator!
JAX (raising an eyebrow) Quantum what-now? Sounds like an energy drink for physics geeks.
ZARA (smirking) More like an energy drink for reality itself. It has the power to manipulate time and space.

Jax picks up the Quantum Generator, and it starts to hum with energy.

JAX (making silly poses) Time and space, huh? Let's see if it can do my laundry too.

Suddenly, the room starts to shake, and the lab equipment comes to life.

ZARA (panicking) Uh-oh, looks like the Quantum Generator is unstable!
JAX (mock concern) Oh no, we might break reality! Imagine the lawsuits!

They try to make their way to the exit, but the room morphs and changes around them.

JAX (grinning) Well, this is awkward. I didn't plan on redecorating the lab tonight.

ZARA (trying to keep her cool) Focus, Jax! We need to shut down the Quantum Generator before things get worse.
JAX (smirking) Don't worry, Zara. I've got this. Speedster to the rescue!

Jax uses his super speed to navigate through the room, dodging lasers and floating objects.

ZARA (shouting) Careful, Jax! Don't trip over your ego!
JAX (jokingly) Oh, please. My ego is like my charm—impossible to trip over!

As Jax reaches the Quantum Generator, he tries to shut it down, but the controls seem confusing.

JAX (teasingly) Who designed this thing, a crossword enthusiast?
ZARA (rolls her eyes) Enough with the jokes, just focus!
JAX (smiling) I got it! Shutting it down in 3... 2... uh-oh.

The Quantum Generator emits a blinding flash of light, and suddenly, everything freezes.

ZARA (startled) Jax, what did you do?!
JAX (playfully) Oops. Looks like I broke reality. Again.
ZARA (sighs) I knew I should have brought a backup speedster.

Suddenly, they hear a mysterious voice.

MYSTERIOUS VOICE (from the shadows) You meddling kids! You've disrupted the fabric of the multiverse!

JAX (whispering to Zara) Zoinks! Who's that?
ZARA (winking) Looks like we've got ourselves a supervillain.
JAX (smiling) I hope they come with a catchy theme song!

With reality frozen around them, Zara and Jax prepare for an epic battle.

I think it worked well, it's been ten minutes and I'm still cringing

sick cringe GIF
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
I told Chatgpt to generate a fake script full of quips to be hip with the kids and it did this:

INT. ABANDONED LAB - NIGHT

The lab is filled with old, dusty equipment, and flickering lights cast eerie shadows on the walls. Our heroes, ZARA (late 20s, tech-savvy genius) and JAX (early 20s, sarcastic speedster), carefully make their way through the dimly lit room.

ZARA (adjusting her glasses) Well, Jax, looks like we stumbled upon another science experiment gone wrong.
JAX (grinning) Ah, the classic abandoned lab! I hope they left some snacks behind.

Zara rolls her eyes.
ZARA Seriously, Jax? You can never focus on the task at hand.
JAX (reluctantly) Fine, fine. Let's just find the McGuffin and get out of here.

They spot a mysterious glowing device on a nearby table.

ZARA (whispers) There it is. The Quantum Generator!
JAX (raising an eyebrow) Quantum what-now? Sounds like an energy drink for physics geeks.
ZARA (smirking) More like an energy drink for reality itself. It has the power to manipulate time and space.

Jax picks up the Quantum Generator, and it starts to hum with energy.

JAX (making silly poses) Time and space, huh? Let's see if it can do my laundry too.

Suddenly, the room starts to shake, and the lab equipment comes to life.

ZARA (panicking) Uh-oh, looks like the Quantum Generator is unstable!
JAX (mock concern) Oh no, we might break reality! Imagine the lawsuits!

They try to make their way to the exit, but the room morphs and changes around them.

JAX (grinning) Well, this is awkward. I didn't plan on redecorating the lab tonight.

ZARA (trying to keep her cool) Focus, Jax! We need to shut down the Quantum Generator before things get worse.
JAX (smirking) Don't worry, Zara. I've got this. Speedster to the rescue!

Jax uses his super speed to navigate through the room, dodging lasers and floating objects.

ZARA (shouting) Careful, Jax! Don't trip over your ego!
JAX (jokingly) Oh, please. My ego is like my charm—impossible to trip over!

As Jax reaches the Quantum Generator, he tries to shut it down, but the controls seem confusing.

JAX (teasingly) Who designed this thing, a crossword enthusiast?
ZARA (rolls her eyes) Enough with the jokes, just focus!
JAX (smiling) I got it! Shutting it down in 3... 2... uh-oh.

The Quantum Generator emits a blinding flash of light, and suddenly, everything freezes.

ZARA (startled) Jax, what did you do?!
JAX (playfully) Oops. Looks like I broke reality. Again.
ZARA (sighs) I knew I should have brought a backup speedster.

Suddenly, they hear a mysterious voice.

MYSTERIOUS VOICE (from the shadows) You meddling kids! You've disrupted the fabric of the multiverse!

JAX (whispering to Zara) Zoinks! Who's that?
ZARA (winking) Looks like we've got ourselves a supervillain.
JAX (smiling) I hope they come with a catchy theme song!

With reality frozen around them, Zara and Jax prepare for an epic battle.

I think it worked well, it's been ten minutes and I'm still cringing

That's worse than ANY superhero or action or sci-fi movie ever made!

These execs are FUCKED if they think Chat GPT will save them! LMBO!
 

Sophist

Member
The studios will definitely not rely on Chatgpt which is a generalistic AI but on more specialized AIs for generating movie scripts with more specific settings.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
The studios will definitely not rely on Chatgpt which is a generalistic AI but on more specialized AIs for generating movie scripts with more specific settings.
AI will be used as a foundation/starting point. Anyone who thinks AI bots will churn out something someone will just hand in word for word is an idiot. That's a Terminator kind of exaggeration for pity points.

Even kids cheating using AI bots wont hand it in exactly as it spits out.

But what all these writers should be doing (I'll assume some are smart enough to fly under the radar and are doing it now) is brushing up their chat AI algorithm skills, churn out stuff and then go over it and change parts they think should be changing. It'll reduce the amount of time to make material. Not everything in life has to be re-inventing the wheel. And going by scripts, most are cookie cutter and predictable anyway. So lets not pretend stories and dialogue are all high quality Shakespearen plots or Eddie Murphy stand ups.

Most IMO are meh. You can tell most in people in life think the same way because 10 minutes after reading or watching the content, nobody is going to care. Yesterday's news. They've already moved on to their next thing and there's a good chance they'll never rewatch it. On the other hand, that $30 toaster gets used every week for 12 years.

And if they hate AI, that's fine. Do the old school way of Ebert writing reviews from scratch on a typewriter in the basement. Their choice.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores

The SAG contract ended on June 30, but the actors gave AMPTP every chance to reach an equitable agreement by extending negotiations to July 12. That proved to be a futile gesture. The studios did not move an inch from their previous positions, and still refuse to address some of the most important issues on the table, including AI and payments and residuals from streaming. They gave the actors no choice but to walk.

As for the writers… well, the studios are not even TALKING to us. All negotiations between AMPTP and the WGA shut down back in May when the strike started. It is hard to reach any agreement when the other side won’t even come to the table.

this year’s strike is the most important of my lifetime. An unnamed producer was quoted last week saying the AMPTP strategy was to stand fast until the writers started losing their homes and apartments, which gives you a hint of what we’re facing.

But we ARE facing it. I have never seen such unity in the Guilds; the strike authorization votes for both SAG and WGA were as close to unanimous as we are ever likely to see.

One of the few shows till shooting is HOUSE OF THE DRAGON, as you may have read. That’s true. I am told the second season is half done. ALL of the scripts had been finished months before the WGA strike began. No writing has been done since, to the best of my knowledge. HOT D is shot mostly in London (and a little bit in Wales, Spain, and various other locations), which is why filming has continued. The actors are members of the British union, Equity, not SAG-AFTRA, and though Equity strongly supports their American cousins (they have a big rally planned to show that support), British law forbids them from staging a sympathy strike. If they walk, they have no protection against being fired for breach of contract, or even sued.

((Honestly, I was shocked to hear that. One of the two major UK political parties, Labour, has its roots in the trade union movement. How in the world could they have allowed such anti-labor regulations to be enacted? Seems to me that Labour Party really needs to do a better job of protecting the right to strike)).

As for me personally, my overall deal with HBO was suspended on June 1.

I still have plenty to do, of course. In that, I am one of the lucky ones. (These strikes are not really about name writers or producers or showrunners, most of whom are fine; we’re striking for the entry level writers, the story editors, the students hoping to break in, the actor who has four lines, the guy working his first staff job who dreams of creating his own show one day, as I did back in the 80s).

And, yes, yes, of course, I’ve been working on WINDS OF WINTER. Almost every day. Writing, rewriting, editing, writing some more. Making steady progress. Not as fast as I would like.. .certainly not as fast as YOU would like… but progress nonetheless.

So that’s the latest from the front lines. I hope we will have your support. HONK if you see us picketing… and NEVER cross a picket line… and maybe we will be able to get this settled quickly. Before we all lose our houses….

Winds of Winter progress...

Black Widow Avengers GIF
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster


Well, it could be that A24 aren't in the streaming business. Andrew Schulz made an interesting set of tweets in which he speculated that the huge stumbling block is that to accommodate the terms of the union they'd have to expose the actual viewing figures on streaming services. A thing they are refusing to do because if they did it would crater their stock prices because what they report is actually massively inflated.

Essentially the premise being that the entire streaming market is a massive bubble, and revealing the truth would cause it to burst instantly with catastrophic consequences for media investment top-to-bottom.

Could be bullshit, but I thought it was an interesting take as to why guys like Iger have been so defiant.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Well, it could be that A24 aren't in the streaming business. Andrew Schulz made an interesting set of tweets in which he speculated that the huge stumbling block is that to accommodate the terms of the union they'd have to expose the actual viewing figures on streaming services. A thing they are refusing to do because if they did it would crater their stock prices because what they report is actually massively inflated.

Essentially the premise being that the entire streaming market is a massive bubble, and revealing the truth would cause it to burst instantly with catastrophic consequences for media investment top-to-bottom.

Could be bullshit, but I thought it was an interesting take as to why guys like Iger have been so defiant.

Oh, that’s not bullshit at all. It’s absolutely correct. That’s what it’s really all about. They could all easily pay what the writers and actors want. It’s the transparency they don’t want. The whole streaming paradigm is a house of cards. Hell, Amazon Studios don’t even share streaming data with other departments of their own company. The whole thing depends on secrecy to keep going. That’s why it’s so important the strikers hold out until they get at least some transparency.

It’ll be better for all of us. Shitty streaming shows, championed by idiot executives and activists, would never get more than one season, if they ever got made at all. And shows that do well would carry on, and wouldn’t be torpedoed by office politics.
 
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