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[JordanN]

The recent SpaceX thread and Space Force news just got me thinking of something.

Once humans start arriving on foreign planets and establish new colonies, how exactly will our concept of money come with us?

If you have a million dollars back home in America, but you travel to the moon that isn't actually settled by anyone, would the defacto currency still be the U.S or a new intergalactic one?

Also what will happen if a planet is colonized by many other nations? Do they all still use their earth currency and follow the same exchange rates,, or do they invent their own?

Or if we do meet Ayyyliens, would our earth money still be considered useless or would we have to trade with them something else (i.e Space Oil? Space Rocks)?

Or would it be like this scene from Star Wars?

 

[EviLore]

Cool thread idea JordanN. The savvier modern sci-fi tends to look at raw materials for 3D printing as a valuable currency under circumstances like this.

 

[jshackles]

From an economic perspective, money is just an agreed upon go-between for goods and services. If you go somewhere that a pre-arranged agreement hasn't taken place (outer space, the moon, even a foreign country on Earth) then commerce can't happen and you'd have to default back to a barter system. "I have something you want, you have something I want, let's make a trade." To a space alien, our money is just paper (and really, just numbers in a computer). Their money might seem equally stupid to us - would you sell your car for 10 Republic Credits without any way to get any value from them?

No doubt the concept of money would follow us, but our particular implementation(s) most certainly would not.

Just like with foreign currency markets, I imagine exchanges would be set up in pretty short order and in no time at all you'd be able to exchange your $100 bill for a Republic Credit.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

would our earth money still be considered useless

i don't see this happening. the US put their flag on the moon for a reason. we did not claim it for all the globe, but for America. America uses the dollar bill. so on the moon, i would imagine dollar bills would still be the currency.

it entirely depends on the currency of Earth. for the first millenia or so, or at least until the advent of FTL travel, it makes sense that we would still be an Earth-first solar population, and thus our money would only be useful as much as it is spendable on Earth. whatever they use on the planet is what will be used in space. the same countries on Earth will be largely funding space infrastructure. they don't seem to be in a hurry to rid the use of money any time soon.

i really wonder about billionaires and private companies tho, because what is to stop one of them from making a space colony, inventing their own money, etc. the collective wealth of a Planet Earth that has mastered space colonization should be quite large indeed. much larger than it's colonies. this has historically been the way things worked. i don't see why humans would act any differently in space.

 

[haxan7]

It’ll go by the social justice credits you earned back on your internet postings on earth.

 

[Tesseract]

It’ll go by the social justice credits you earned back on your internet postings on earth.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

 

[Captain Zyrain]

As long as there is a realistic way to transfer wealth around, I think the transition from money to spacemoney will be fine.

If, say, it takes a lifetime to get back and forth, your TrumpDollars might not be worth much to people in the Plutosphere, since they won't likely be able to ever use them. If it's all digital though, and data can be sent quickly.. who knows, maybe it'll work.

 

[Elektro Demon]

If you have a million dollars back home in America, but you travel to the moon that isn't actually settled by anyone, would the defacto currency still be the U.S or a new intergalactic one?
I think earth money [dollars] would still be the currency.

Also what will happen if a planet is colonized by many other nations? Do they all still use their earth currency and follow the same exchange rates,, or do they invent their own?
There would be space exchange stations.


Or if we do meet Ayyyliens, would our earth money still be considered useless or would we have to trade with them something else (i.e Space Oil? Space Rocks)?
I think with aliens we'll be trading sex services. Imagine all those wet alien vags.

 

[Tesseract]

it wouldn't, i don't think we'll be using money in space

 

[Kadayi]

When we send you into space baby, we're not paying you with money, we're paying you with survival. Get with the program. Now mine those asteroids and be grateful more oxygen is on the way.

 

[Son Tofu]

Gold-pressed latinum

 

[jshackles]

One place to look for answers is history. Your proposed scenario sounds a lot like what the American Colonies went through before and after the Revolutionary War - where people largely gave up on British currency because it was so difficult to trade in and instead widely adopted the Spanish dollar (which is why we still call them dollars!). There were people who were super wealthy in England that sailed to the Americas and found themselves nearly penniless because their money was difficult to exchange for goods and services. Almost every state had set up and issued it's own currency which were almost all called the same name but had different values!

During the war the provisional government set up Continental Currency to pay for the war effort, but printed so much of it that it became nearly worthless by the end of the war. It took a while, but eventually everything worked out in the end. Now pretend that instead of colonies in this example we have different planets - it's difficult to travel back to Earth and also difficult to travel from planet to planet, but presumably not impossible.

Shit'll probably get messy unless there are some rules established beforehand. And even then, if you throw an alien civilization (like the Indians of North America) into the mix then all bets are off.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Money? Like air and other necessities you might need in space to survive I guess? Who knows what other lifeforms may find valuable so it would depend on that I guess. This is all counting on said aliens not trying to erase us from existence after meeting us I take it.

 

[Super Mario]

I think it would work the same. Less than half would find a way to use it responsibly. The remaining need everyone else to make it for them. Space won't escape laziness.

 

[Karma Jawa]

We’d use mooney.

 

[Thurible]

Sadly I personally doubt humanity will ever live in space colonies. It just seems unfeasible considering there are no natural resources in nearby space that is conducive to life. Everything has to be dependent on Earth, and there doesn't seem to be any workaround for that. Also consider the costliness of space travel, it can take billions of dollars just to drop off simple payloads. We are finding ways to reuse parts but the things needed for travel are still complicated to make and expensive. Then there is also the physical toll of limoted gravity. Muscles tend to atrophy in space and need near constant stimulation to just get close to normal shape. Astronauts on the ISS are prepared for this, but still they become weaker, especially upon return to earth. Cosmic radiation is also a problem. The limited atmospheres of the moon and mars leads to a lot of exposure to deadly radiation. Though it could possibly be handled in small doses, actually LIVING on another heavenly body like that would require long term exposure. I'm not even sure if people on the trip to mars could survive it because of the time it requires to get there while being in contact with this radiation.

Basically, I think the prospects are bleak for space colonization because of the cost, health risks, and complete dependence on Earth.

 

[EviLore]

Sadly I personally doubt humanity will ever live in space colonies. It just seems unfeasible considering there are no natural resources in nearby space that is conducive to life. Everything has to be dependent on Earth, and there doesn't seem to be any workaround for that. Also consider the costliness of space travel, it can take billions of dollars just to drop off simple payloads. We are finding ways to reuse parts but the things needed for travel are still complicated to make and expensive. Then there is also the physical toll of limoted gravity. Muscles tend to atrophy in space and need near constant stimulation to just get close to normal shape. Astronauts on the ISS are prepared for this, but still they become weaker, especially upon return to earth. Cosmic radiation is also a problem. The limited atmospheres of the moon and mars leads to a lot of exposure to deadly radiation. Though it could possibly be handled in small doses, actually LIVING on another heavenly body like that would require long term exposure. I'm not even sure if people on the trip to mars could survive it because of the time it requires to get there while being in contact with this radiation.

Basically, I think the prospects are bleak for space colonization because of the cost, health risks, and complete dependence on Earth.

 

[JordanN]

Sadly I personally doubt humanity will ever live in space colonies. It just seems unfeasible considering there are no natural resources in nearby space that is conducive to life. Everything has to be dependent on Earth, and there doesn't seem to be any workaround for that. Also consider the costliness of space travel, it can take billions of dollars just to drop off simple payloads. We are finding ways to reuse parts but the things needed for travel are still complicated to make and expensive. Then there is also the physical toll of limoted gravity. Muscles tend to atrophy in space and need near constant stimulation to just get close to normal shape. Astronauts on the ISS are prepared for this, but still they become weaker, especially upon return to earth. Cosmic radiation is also a problem. The limited atmospheres of the moon and mars leads to a lot of exposure to deadly radiation. Though it could possibly be handled in small doses, actually LIVING on another heavenly body like that would require long term exposure. I'm not even sure if people on the trip to mars could survive it because of the time it requires to get there while being in contact with this radiation.

Basically, I think the prospects are bleak for space colonization because of the cost, health risks, and complete dependence on Earth.

This sounds like evolution.

Keep in mind, there are already animals on earth who can survive extreme heat or extreme cold conditions. This may sound sci-fi, by why couldn't science splice together our DNA with such a creature?

Also, how much radiation do you think is actually needed to stop life? Are you saying Space is one big Chernobyl? We're technically being hit by radiation everyday from the sun, or people who fly in airplanes are already exposed to more radiation than people on the ground.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Good question, look at all the currencies on Earth already (Dollar, Euro, Pound etc.) it's hard to think they'll be just 1 currency on the Moon and other worlds.

 

[Thurible]

This sounds like evolution.

Keep in mind, there are already animals on earth who can survive extreme heat or extreme cold conditions.

Evolution is usually the result of natural selection, which is often the result of a need, like a changing environment or a niche that could to be filled. Usually these changes are the result of mutations that have been passed on either because they are beneficial or they simply aren't detrimental. It's often not purposeful, just simply speaking certain members of species survive better and the rest don't, so they die and the survivors live on. That can't really happen on a human level as right now there isn't a need for adaptation, just about everyone has reproductive fitness and we are currently at the top of the food chain.

There are extremophiles on earth that can handle conditions near impossible. However, these are still earthbound creatures. Space is a whole other animal.

This may sound sci-fi, by why couldn't science splice together our DNA with such a creature?

Technology like CRISPR has led to the development of some excellent GMOS, but I am not sure if it could be applied in such a way. Even if we could gain some of the attributes of, say a tardigrade, we likely wouldn't be able to thrive in space. The best some of the extremophiles can do in space is just live for a while longer than most species, they don't reproduce and thrive, as space is basically a vacuum. Right now there are some tardigrades on the moon and they may have survived. However, best case scenario is that they are hibernating, completely dormant, and will be doing so until they die.

Also, I am not aware of any mutation or gene that can help with exposure to cosmic rays. I don't believe many (if any) species had to adapt to such things as we are largely protected here on earth by the atmosphere.

Also, how much radiation do you think is actually needed to stop life? Are you saying Space is one big Chernobyl? We're technically being hit by radiation everyday from the sun, or people who fly in airplanes are already exposed to more radiation than people on the ground.

I'm not a scientist (so hopefully I'm not speaking out of my butt and someone more educated can correct if I err), but I don't believe space itself is particularly radioactive, but the sun can emit some very nasty waves. I think NASA had to worry and take that into consideration during the apollo missions and there have been some close calls of bombardment. Getting hit with radiation isn't going to immediately kill you, but being hit by it for a long time (and space travel would require a long time) will. I believe its carcinogenic effects are the concern, it wouldn't be like getting radiation poisoning.



Also, I'm sorry for kind of being a party pooper, this is just my opinion. We don't know what the future holds. Maybe it will happen, I just don't see it being realistic presently.

As for space cash, I would think that if colonies are owned by earth nations they would share the same currency of their colonizer.

 

[captainraincoat]

The oldest profession in the world is probably the galaxy currency

aliens come in and shove prods up peoples asses so the galaxy currency is probably ass

 

[triplestation]

either use earth money if you got it or you matt damon that shit

 

[infinitys_7th]

I think that any civilization that can reach and interact with other civilizations will be post-scarcity, so money will be nonexistent. They will probably also be non-biological along with that because physical needs drive most of resource scarcity - for example, we need to eat regularly, and food in a civilization requires a lot of resources to manage.

 

[JordanN]

volution is usually the result of natural selection, which is often the result of a need, like a changing environment or a niche that could to be filled. Usually these changes are the result of mutations that have been passed on either because they are beneficial or they simply aren't detrimental. It's often not purposeful, just simply speaking certain members of species survive better and the rest don't, so they die and the survivors live on. That can't really happen on a human level as right now there isn't a need for adaptation, just about everyone has reproductive fitness and we are currently at the top of the food chain.

There are extremophiles on earth that can handle conditions near impossible. However, these are still earthbound creatures. Space is a whole other animal.

Technology like CRISPR has led to the development of some excellent GMOS, but I am not sure if it could be applied in such a way. Even if we could gain some of the attributes of, say a tardigrade, we likely wouldn't be able to thrive in space. The best some of the extremophiles can do in space is just live for a while longer than most species, they don't reproduce and thrive, as space is basically a vacuum. Right now there are some tardigrades on the moon and they may have survived. However, best case scenario is that they are hibernating, completely dormant, and will be doing so until they die.

Also, I am not aware of any mutation or gene that can help with exposure to cosmic rays. I don't believe many (if any) species had to adapt to such things as we are largely protected here on earth by the atmosphere.

I would argue the tardigrades aren't doing anything in space because they don't have opposable thumbs or the same intelligence as humans. I'm obviously suggesting we combine the hardiness of the tardigrades with that of ordinary humans.

When Humans go into outerspace, I don't believe there's an expectation we're actually going to live in a barren desert or wasteland but instead, actually try and terraform the planet, or continue building protective outposts that can support human life.

We already see such experiments on Earth. When countries like Israel or Australia are surrounded by desert with limited fresh water, they turn to technology to help create new ones instead.
Or go further North and the Inuit came up with all sorts of sorts of strategies meant to survive in the arctic.

 

[Taxexemption]

At least until we meet Aliens there will likely be different prices. Yeah, a pound of chicken is really cheap in earth money where we have all sorts of chickens on earth, you don't have any way of getting those chickens to the moon or mars without spending an incredible amount of money. Won't matter if you have a million when it takes a lot more than that to get a shuttle up there. The price of anything will be crazy high in outer space until it gets seriously colonized. In general I would expect the price of a most good or services to be higher.

 

[JordanN]

At least until we meet Aliens there will likely be different prices. Yeah, a pound of chicken is really cheap in earth money where we have all sorts of chickens on earth, you don't have any way of getting those chickens to the moon or mars without spending an incredible amount of money. Won't matter if you have a million when it takes a lot more than that to get a shuttle up there. The price of anything will be crazy high in outer space until it gets seriously colonized. In general I would expect the price of a most good or services to be higher.

Sounds like the perfect opportunity to be a Space Farmer.

The first person to successfully grow their own crops or livestock will command a monopoly on each planet.

Edit: It seems like it's already possible to grow food in Space. The next step is to mass produce it.

 

[Thurible]

I would argue the tardigrades aren't doing anything in space because they don't have opposable thumbs or the same intelligence as humans. I'm obviously suggesting we combine the hardiness of the tardigrades with that of ordinary humans.

Tardigrades would be hibernating because there is nothing conducive to survival in space. They are dormant because they have to be to live. Giving humans the ability to use cryptobiosis isn't likely going to allow people to just walk around in space.

When Humans go into outerspace, I don't believe there's an expectation we're actually going to live in a barren desert or wasteland but instead, actually try and terraform the planet, or continue building protective outposts that can support human life.

That would be incredibly difficult to accomplish. It could centuries or even millenia just to make an atmosphere similar to earth using the green house effect. That's also not including the need for earthlike soil. You can't grow anything on the surface of mars or the moon, but it there are methods to grow vegetation without soil. But that would require farming in specialized buildings and not actually on the planet. Then there is the temperature, mars and the moon are much colder than the earth. Having creatures actually move about outside unprotected would lead to death.

We already see such experiments on Earth. When countries like Israel or Australia are surrounded by desert with limited fresh water, they turn to technology to help create new ones instead.
Or go further North and the Inuit came up with all sorts of sorts of strategies meant to survive in the arctic.

That's very different from what would be needed on already dead planets.

 

[JordanN]

Tardigrades would be hibernating because there is nothing conducive to survival in space. They are dormant because they have to be to live. Giving humans the ability to use cryptobiosis isn't likely going to allow people to just walk around in space.


That would be incredibly difficult to accomplish. It could centuries or even millenia just to make an atmosphere similar to earth using the green house effect. That's also not including the need for earthlike soil. You can't grow anything on the surface of mars or the moon, but it there are methods to grow vegetation without soil. But that would require farming in specialized buildings and not actually on the planet. Then there is the temperature, mars and the moon are much colder than the earth. Having creatures actually move about outside unprotected would lead to death.

By your logic, Space travel was never possible because you want to launch naked humans into space.

We already designed Space suits that is basically meant to protect us outside of earth, and using math and science, we can already safely determine which parts of Space we need to be careful of. Like, even when Astronauts go walking outside the Spacestation and their backs are not facing the Sun, I recall temperatures are as low as -200 celcius. Yet Astronauts don't actually freeze to death because their suits have their own insulation and they're taught how to survive such situations.

That's very different from what would be needed on already dead planets.

It's not a process I expect to happen overnight. And honestly, if we can create our own artificial environment anyway, I don't see why it matters if we don't physically walk outside a planet without a space suit. That might even be a job still left for robots until we do figure out a biological work around.

I could honestly envision a Starcraft-esque scenario, where humans still colonize other planets, but they do so by supporting structures that are specifically designed for them.

 

[Son Tofu]

I doubt we'll be able to survive in space or anything, but terraforming a world under a dome or something doesn't seem unlikely.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Sadly I personally doubt humanity will ever live in space colonies. It just seems unfeasible considering there are no natural resources in nearby space that is conducive to life. Everything has to be dependent on Earth, and there doesn't seem to be any workaround for that. Also consider the costliness of space travel, it can take billions of dollars just to drop off simple payloads. We are finding ways to reuse parts but the things needed for travel are still complicated to make and expensive. Then there is also the physical toll of limoted gravity. Muscles tend to atrophy in space and need near constant stimulation to just get close to normal shape. Astronauts on the ISS are prepared for this, but still they become weaker, especially upon return to earth. Cosmic radiation is also a problem. The limited atmospheres of the moon and mars leads to a lot of exposure to deadly radiation. Though it could possibly be handled in small doses, actually LIVING on another heavenly body like that would require long term exposure. I'm not even sure if people on the trip to mars could survive it because of the time it requires to get there while being in contact with this radiation.

Basically, I think the prospects are bleak for space colonization because of the cost, health risks, and complete dependence on Earth.

Ice.

That is all.

You mine ice from asteroids and other space bodies and create hydroponics gardens. The gardens generate oxygen for breathing, food to eat and there is a lot of ice in space.

 

[jshackles]

Sounds like the perfect opportunity to be a Space Farmer.

The first person to successfully grow their own crops or livestock will command a monopoly on each planet.

OP have you read the book Artemis by Andy Weir? It's by the guy who wrote The Martian. The book paints what I would consider to be a somewhat realistic portrayal of how economies like this would work on a human-made moon base.

 

[JordanN]

OP have you read the book Artemis by Andy Weir? It's by the guy who wrote The Martian. The book paints what I would consider to be a somewhat realistic portrayal of how economies like this would work on a human-made moon base.

I haven't, but I'll add it to my future reading list because I do find the topic interesting.

 

[Shizumapower]

If they have unobtanium there, watch out.

Survival will come first, then settlement, then bartering or exchanging precious materials. If it follows humanity's history.

Something will rise to the top. Spike needs his woolong to get some food!

 

[Thurible]

By your logic, Space travel was never possible because you want to launch naked humans into space.

I never said mobility wasn't possible, just that walking freely is. I apologize if I misinterpreted you.

Ice.

That is all.

You mine ice from asteroids and other space bodies and create hydroponics gardens. The gardens generate oxygen for breathing, food to eat and there is a lot of ice in space.

Maybe, but not all areas have ice and not all ice in space is water.

Again, I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade. I just find the topic interesting and personally find it unlikely to happen.

 

[JordanN]

Bumping thread.

Looks like Elon Musk will be the first to challenge this.

 

[synchronicity]

Money is just a symbol, like all other forms of communication. It derives value from mutual understanding and agreement. In and of itself, it's essentially worthless. (Without wanting to go down the rabbit hole of discussion this could bring, I would also suggest that it is a means of oppression - a very deliberate means.)

 

[Evangelion Unit-01]

Money in space? I guess it would float.

 

[Ikutachi]

Bags of our manure, assuming any terraforming. Gamer girls' worth more.

 

[Punished Miku]

I think The Expanse (Amazon series) brings up lots of cool elements that make sense. Ownership and sharp inequality will not disappear in space, but will instead become even more sharp and pronounced. Moving off world will be risky and personally isolating, but people will do that for money like oil rig workers and natural gas employees who travel now for employment. Only mega corporations and military will have the resources to even reach space, and they will own it. The gap between rich and poor will be even sharper, with most people on UBI by that point, with only a small elite employable in high tech and government. In The Expanse, Mars is colonized and owned by Earth. Mars eventually fights a war of independence, instead of having all their resources and wealth extracted to return to Earth (ownership and inequality even more sharp and pronounced). After independence, Mars would have its own currency.

 

[Woo-Fu]

If you're going to assume the FTL travel necessary to have a multi-system economy you might as well assume an FTL network to bank on.

The only real currency short of instantaneous and free warps is going to be information. At the level of technology a society would have to have for a multi-system economy you have the technology to replicate things locally far more economically than physically transporting them between systems.

 

[Punished Miku]

If you're going to assume the FTL travel necessary to have a multi-system economy you might as well assume an FTL network to bank on.

The only real currency short of instantaneous and free warps is going to be information. At the level of technology a society would have to have for a multi-system economy you have the technology to replicate things locally far more economically than physically transporting them between systems.

You either hit a future in Total Recall, or Star Trek. In TR, everything is owned by corporations even more sharply, including the air we breathe. Memories can be altered, and it's basically a corpo-authoritarian (corrupt, late-stage capitalist monopoly) government. Lots of black markets exist for people that are human waste in the eyes of the system, and unemployable - turning to crime, prostitution, full time revolution / revolt.

In Star Trek, everyone has 3D printers that can make anything, including food. Money is then basically irrelevant and doesn't exist. The military industrial complex is converted into a planet-wide NASA for the purpose of exploring space and advancing technology. People can live on Earth as artists and live for free (hyper-tech communism/socialism), or voluntarily join the academy to advance science and explore space.

 

[JordanN]

You either hit a future in Total Recall, or Star Trek. In TR, everything is owned by corporations even more sharply, including the air we breathe. Memories can be altered, and it's basically a corpo-authoritarian (corrupt, late-stage capitalist monopoly) government. Lots of black markets exist for people that are human waste in the eyes of the system, and unemployable - turning to crime, prostitution, full time revolution / revolt.

In Star Trek, everyone has 3D printers that can make anything, including food. Money is then basically irrelevant and doesn't exist. The military industrial complex is converted into a planet-wide NASA for the purpose of exploring space and advancing technology. People can live on Earth as artists and live for free (hyper-tech communism/socialism), or voluntarily join the academy to advance science and explore space.

What about a future like Star Wars?

That's what I actually posted in the OP. Qui-Gon's money was worthless to Watto, and because they were in Hutt territory, the Republic wasn't able to control it.

 

[Punished Miku]

What about a future like Star Wars?

That's what I actually posted in the OP. Qui-Gon's money was worthless to Watto, and because they were in Hut territory, the Republic actually wasn't able to control it.

You'd have to find someone that travels between Hutt and Republic territory that wants to exchange currencies. Any currency manipulator could make money on it as long as they travel to both places. You'd probably still be able to exchange it honestly. Tattooine is definitely big enough to have its own currency. I dont really think that scene is that well thought out.

 

[JordanN]

You'd have to find someone that travels between Hutt and Republic territory that wants to exchange currencies. Any currency manipulator could make money on it as long as they travel to both places. You'd probably still be able to exchange it honestly. Tattooine is definitely big enough to have its own currency. I dont really think that scene is that well thought out.

Maybe the conversion rate or fees to do so are too high?

Imagine 10,000 Republic Credits = 1 Tatooine dollar? They also still use slavery.

 

[Evangelion Unit-01]

Serious answer-I don’t foresee an end to fiat currency. If there were colonized planets you’d need to convert to whatever the government there printed. You’d only ever have trouble if you ran into a situation where there wasn’t a party willing to trade your currency for theirs. That always bothered me in Episode I-I couldn’t get past the fact that nobody in Mos Eisley was trading currency.

 

[dionysus]

No reason it would change. Why can you exchange French money for English pounds in China? Because China trades, invests, and transacts with both countries so the value of all currencies will be recognized. Only way the US dollar wouldnt work on the moon or Mars is if there were literally no links back to Earth, which is absurd.

 

[Shadowplay1979]

There will be a point where every meteor , comet moon and planet becomes a source of raw materials..and that opens the door to unlimited resources. The average person will not be mining but those who do will owe financial advantage.
As for laws....once space opens to the common man in ease...space becomes the wild west again and i couldnt be happier about that. There will be domains within a construct of an earth based political framework of civil laws.....but when you can expand into infinity..there will always be edges to those civilizations.

One day we will have printers that can print at the atomic level..anything but i think long before we become a planet hopping civilizaton...we go inward ...singularity and then many of those issues cease to be issues.