The game is like 4 hours or less long isn't it?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
htoL#NiQ: The Firefly Diary |OT| It's Pronounced "Hotaru no Nikki"
- Thread starter Yasumi
- Start date
The game is like 4 hours or less long isn't it?
SerTapTap
Member
Oh wow, that short? Hrm I'll try and make sure to finish it before starting Noire then.
Hrm. I'll try to get them all and take screenshots of the ones I can't reach then. I don't like when games don't have good completion tracking but still tie trophies or stuff to it.
Are they all going to be picky like that second rabbit? I could swear I was directly in front of it...
lazyproblems
Member
The second one is the most finicky. The third is just really well hidden
behind a bunch of rubble all the way to the left on the pipe
Remembrance
Member
Nobody is going to get through this game in 4 hours their first time.
The thing is, the reviewers complain that this is somehow artificially lengthening the game. But if you look at it another way, if you want to make a game that is about brutally hard puzzles, a short game is the right decision.
Especially with some of these later puzzles that require multiple steps of setup or timing.
Yep. Took me about 3 days to beat, with most of my weekend devoted to it. Well worth the ¥3,086.
Like, I'm sure some crazy person would be able to get through the whole thing in 4 hours, but most wouldn't. I'm going to play it a second time when my physical copy arrives, but it's still probably going to take me a solid day or two.
Remembrance
Member
Generally you'll figure out what to do very quickly and spend much longer to actually do it with the correct timing. You will have to learn unconventional control schemes, and a lot of deaths can result in some parts if you can't control the game very precisely.
So it does lean towards the first category, but all the sections so far have been very short.
Hmm. In that case, I'm still on the fence then. I kind of wanted something a little less teeth-clenching.
My experience so far has been cheap deaths the game. A lot of solutions require incredible foresight to the point where I'm 100% sure the devs want you to die multiple times to figure out solutions. Most of it has still been fun but there were definite rage worthy points for me.
if you're strong enough, you'll absolutely snap your vita in two
There's 2-3 things i thought were mostly unfair (be it hard to predict or because the game just screw you with rng, that part you will only die out of patience so stay calm) and 2 that were just hard because it was too strict for either the touch or stick control.
Personally only the later irritated me.
Most of the puzzle are pretty simple to figure out imo.
NIS doing a contest to win a physical copy of the game.
Might go back & try to clear Chapter 2 since I have basically nothing college-related to do over the weekend, assuming I can tear myself away from Project Diva f 2nd.
Might go back & try to clear Chapter 2 since I have basically nothing college-related to do over the weekend, assuming I can tear myself away from Project Diva f 2nd.
For me it was without a doubt the first option. Some really cool moments got me interested, but ultimately the frustration level got too high about half way through the second chapter, so up on Ebay the game went.
2-1 - Okay, aside from one or two "OH COME ON" deaths, this wasn't too bad. I got really annoyed when I dropped down from what looked like I wouldn't touch the enemy, but for some reason, it said I did. Least I got the trophy on my first attempt.
This maze on 2-2 is getting annoying, though.
This maze on 2-2 is getting annoying, though.
Remembrance
Member
It looks far more complex than it actually is. The 2-2 trophy is also the most common one out of all the level-specific ones.
OH.
OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
HERP A DERP, shadow powers.
Edit: uhhh, wow, 2-2's memory sprout...
Okay, so 2-3 is easily the biggest difficulty spike in the game so far, & the WORST. First off, it's one of those "you have no control over the character & you just sit & let them move automatically slooowwwllyyy", & even worse, the trophy for the level is at the end, BUT if you touch the sides in the maze near the end, guess what? The checkpoint puts you not at the beginning of the maze, but IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. So then what? YOU HAVE TO DO THE DAMN, DRAWN OUT, SLOW PACED STAGE ALL OVER AGAIN JUST TO GET ANOTHER DAMN CHANCE AT IT.
& the maze is basically one of those "move the cursor through these tight passageways, but neither control scheme helps. Touchscreen, your hand is in the way & analog is hard to be exact, especially during the very last part, which is the hardest.
OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
HERP A DERP, shadow powers.
Edit: uhhh, wow, 2-2's memory sprout...
Okay, so 2-3 is easily the biggest difficulty spike in the game so far, & the WORST. First off, it's one of those "you have no control over the character & you just sit & let them move automatically slooowwwllyyy", & even worse, the trophy for the level is at the end, BUT if you touch the sides in the maze near the end, guess what? The checkpoint puts you not at the beginning of the maze, but IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. So then what? YOU HAVE TO DO THE DAMN, DRAWN OUT, SLOW PACED STAGE ALL OVER AGAIN JUST TO GET ANOTHER DAMN CHANCE AT IT.
& the maze is basically one of those "move the cursor through these tight passageways, but neither control scheme helps. Touchscreen, your hand is in the way & analog is hard to be exact, especially during the very last part, which is the hardest.
Check out the three Japanese read-along videos in the OP. They give some insight into the story.
My interpretation. Long as heck, but there's a reason this was my number 2 game of the year.
*Major spoilers*
The original Mion was murdered way back when the world was edging toward an age of nuclear Apocalypse. As you probably know, the memory sprouts were all from her perspective.
Mion's father, a bio engineer, and her mother, who had experience in mechanical and neuro science, tried to clone her using plant-based organisms and implant the personality scan they made of her at some point. The father made many attempts to create a physical clone of Mion, merging human and plant properties, hence the horns which were actually branches. Her mother made many attempts to implant the memory/scan into these cloned Mions. Eventually they succeed and the horned Mion comes into existence, an immortal homunculus.
The entire time, the original Mion's spirit is witnessing all of this. When her parents succeed and shut down the machine that housed original Mion's personality, this drives her mad and she begins seeing the new Mion as a horned blob. She's been replaced.
The glitchout during the next memory sprout implies that Mion's parents similarly uploaded their minds like they did with Mion, in the form of fireflies. They plant a tree, in the hopes that it will eventually bloom in a world without war and Mion will be able to behold its beauty. It would one day envelope the entire lab, where Mion's spirit remained. They're killed, slughtered in their own home, but the horned Mion remains. True Mion is left to her own solitude and madness. Kill the fake. Kill kill kill kill.
See the normal ending for what happened next. Horned Mion wakes up, leaves the house, and falls down a cliff to where the game would one day begin, on December 31, 9999.
On that day, the firefly forms of Mion's parents would awaken. Having been dormant for so long, they've lost their memories, but not their drive to show their daughter a world without war, a clear blue sky.
You proceed through the game, guiding Mion desperately through the ruins. Die, try again, die, try again. This is all you can do. A parent's love for their child, a singular drive, they'll try as hard as they can to bring a smile to their child's face, even if they can't remember who they are, or why they're doing it. Shadow beasts and old machinery stand in their way, possibly the remnants of people seeking revenge for the parents' actions that pushed the world's destruction.
Towards the end of the game, the environment starts to glitch out and become pixelated. These seemed to be the memories slowly returning to the firefly parents, causing conflict in the parents' desires. The memory sprouts showed the parents that their true daughter still existed in some form, and they had to save her.
The normal ending final boss was essentially the parents coming to terms with who they truly were. Dark figures who participated in the end of the world. Perhaps her father engineered bioweapons, and her mother designed nukes. That's probably why they were killed. It didn't stop the world from becoming a nuclear wasteland.
After the normal ending, horned Mion witnesses the way to enter the lab through original Mion's memory. After obtaining it and opening the door to the lab, the horned girl and two fireflies come upon the spirit of the original Mion, possessing the massive tree that's grown in there.
I thought the next part was brilliant. A large piston appears, and it's the only thing you can interact with. The course of action is clear. The fireflies led horned Mion here so that their true daughter could get a new body. The trusting girl you've been protecting this entire game, through all of that frustration, must be killed. The player's goals no longer line up with the playable characters', but you HAVE to do it. You lead her over with Lumen, then have Umbra crush her with the piston, breaking her horns off.
The original Mion possesses the body and gets up, ready to leave with her parents. But that's not the end. The Mion that you've guided through the game, she's her own person. That's HER body, and she's not giving it up without a fight. Horned Mion posseses the tree that grew around the old personality machine and prepares for battle. The parents open portals, flooding the room with shadow beasts to deal with the rogue "fake". Horned Mion succeeds, the tree fully blooms, blasting away the firefly parents and killing the homunculus Mion body once and for all.
Original Mion, once again a spirit, has simultaneously lost both of her parents after not seeing them for thousands of years, as well as her chance at life. The spirit of the horned Mion comforts her. She knew the absolute love and singular desire original Mion's parents had in trying their hardest to keep horned Mion safe. They're sisters in a way, two totally different Mions. They find companionship in this fact, knowing the love that they both experienced from their parents. Both Mions now possess the tree, and will together witness the birth of the new world.
Mion's father, a bio engineer, and her mother, who had experience in mechanical and neuro science, tried to clone her using plant-based organisms and implant the personality scan they made of her at some point. The father made many attempts to create a physical clone of Mion, merging human and plant properties, hence the horns which were actually branches. Her mother made many attempts to implant the memory/scan into these cloned Mions. Eventually they succeed and the horned Mion comes into existence, an immortal homunculus.
The entire time, the original Mion's spirit is witnessing all of this. When her parents succeed and shut down the machine that housed original Mion's personality, this drives her mad and she begins seeing the new Mion as a horned blob. She's been replaced.
The glitchout during the next memory sprout implies that Mion's parents similarly uploaded their minds like they did with Mion, in the form of fireflies. They plant a tree, in the hopes that it will eventually bloom in a world without war and Mion will be able to behold its beauty. It would one day envelope the entire lab, where Mion's spirit remained. They're killed, slughtered in their own home, but the horned Mion remains. True Mion is left to her own solitude and madness. Kill the fake. Kill kill kill kill.
See the normal ending for what happened next. Horned Mion wakes up, leaves the house, and falls down a cliff to where the game would one day begin, on December 31, 9999.
On that day, the firefly forms of Mion's parents would awaken. Having been dormant for so long, they've lost their memories, but not their drive to show their daughter a world without war, a clear blue sky.
You proceed through the game, guiding Mion desperately through the ruins. Die, try again, die, try again. This is all you can do. A parent's love for their child, a singular drive, they'll try as hard as they can to bring a smile to their child's face, even if they can't remember who they are, or why they're doing it. Shadow beasts and old machinery stand in their way, possibly the remnants of people seeking revenge for the parents' actions that pushed the world's destruction.
Towards the end of the game, the environment starts to glitch out and become pixelated. These seemed to be the memories slowly returning to the firefly parents, causing conflict in the parents' desires. The memory sprouts showed the parents that their true daughter still existed in some form, and they had to save her.
The normal ending final boss was essentially the parents coming to terms with who they truly were. Dark figures who participated in the end of the world. Perhaps her father engineered bioweapons, and her mother designed nukes. That's probably why they were killed. It didn't stop the world from becoming a nuclear wasteland.
After the normal ending, horned Mion witnesses the way to enter the lab through original Mion's memory. After obtaining it and opening the door to the lab, the horned girl and two fireflies come upon the spirit of the original Mion, possessing the massive tree that's grown in there.
I thought the next part was brilliant. A large piston appears, and it's the only thing you can interact with. The course of action is clear. The fireflies led horned Mion here so that their true daughter could get a new body. The trusting girl you've been protecting this entire game, through all of that frustration, must be killed. The player's goals no longer line up with the playable characters', but you HAVE to do it. You lead her over with Lumen, then have Umbra crush her with the piston, breaking her horns off.
The original Mion possesses the body and gets up, ready to leave with her parents. But that's not the end. The Mion that you've guided through the game, she's her own person. That's HER body, and she's not giving it up without a fight. Horned Mion posseses the tree that grew around the old personality machine and prepares for battle. The parents open portals, flooding the room with shadow beasts to deal with the rogue "fake". Horned Mion succeeds, the tree fully blooms, blasting away the firefly parents and killing the homunculus Mion body once and for all.
Original Mion, once again a spirit, has simultaneously lost both of her parents after not seeing them for thousands of years, as well as her chance at life. The spirit of the horned Mion comforts her. She knew the absolute love and singular desire original Mion's parents had in trying their hardest to keep horned Mion safe. They're sisters in a way, two totally different Mions. They find companionship in this fact, knowing the love that they both experienced from their parents. Both Mions now possess the tree, and will together witness the birth of the new world.
Remembrance
Member
I'll get on that as soon as I get to the end...
Meanwhile, 4-2:
At this point I'm willing to say somebody was in a trolling mood while designing this.
Edit: Actually, no, I realized that earlier with the
in 4-1.
Meanwhile, 4-2:
A room with nothing in it but random falling boxes and bombs, and no checkpoints.
Edit: Actually, no, I realized that earlier with the
instant death door
Remembrance
Member
Not even going to try the trophy run until after I finish, but it would absolutely have to be touch for me. Finishing that part only took a few tries the first time after switching to touch.
Ignore trying to see what's under your finger and just match your dragging speed to the moving objects in the maze.
Edit: And I just realized (4-3)
that there's more maze. Honestly, it's not hard anymore with the touchscreen... But that timing puzzle right after with no checkpoint in between was a nice touch.
The rest of 4-2 was genuinely fun! Got the trophy too.
Remembrance
Member
What is this final boss.
Okay, it was worth coming all this way just to see the audaciousness of something like this at the end.
I hope I can actually beat this with more than blind luck, though.
Okay, it was worth coming all this way just to see the audaciousness of something like this at the end.
I hope I can actually beat this with more than blind luck, though.
shadow2810
Member
I haven't received my prize yet, not even shipping notification 
just sent them an inquiry email though.
just sent them an inquiry email though.Remembrance
Member
Lumen can move all shadows on the screen at once, but can't move shadows relative to other shadows.
Shadows can only be bridged by moving objects.
Fair enough - I'll give it a few more tries though.
calc84maniac
Member
I think there are a couple of exceptions, which might have to do with objects being located at different distances from the background. The end of
2-3, where you have to position Lumen properly to be able to reach the control to turn off the grinder
On another note, this is the first game I've ever platinumed. Either it's just that good, or I'm a masochist.
Maybe both.
SerTapTap
Member
Hm maybe that's it...it LOOKED like they touched, but I guess in reality the shadows weren't touching, I was just seeing the shadow touch the foreground object. I'll keep that in mind. Still in Chapter 2.
Granak
Neo Member
Been playing this for a potential pending review and, man, I feel as though I'm far too familiar with the Grim Reaper at this point. I dig the art direction, enjoy the game for the most part but dying repeatedly to controls that aren't, well, precise, isn't so great.
Still. Almost done with it. Not quite what I expected for sure!
Still. Almost done with it. Not quite what I expected for sure!
SerTapTap
Member
It's PS TV compatible, though (so far) I prefer the touch control schemes. You only get one of three options playing on PS TV, using the left stick to move Lumen
Lumen's movements are precise, especially with touch controls. It's just that Mion's movements are indirect and a bit delayed. As long as you're aware of where Lumen and Mion both are you should know exactly what's going to happen. Only issue I've had is the annoying but usually not dangerous moment where I'm trying to get Mion to activate a switch.
Granak
Neo Member
Oh no doubt. I'm not crazy about how well the back touchpad works with it. I've actually used Control Scheme C far more. The first maze section with Lumen (with touch controls enabled) drove me mad at first. I've learned one thing about myself playing this game.. I have more patience than I thought. I've continued to work my way through it despite getting the Undying Resolve trophy (I keep expecting to get another one soon).
SerTapTap
Member
IMO control option B is best. C is weird and clearly not how the game is meant to be played, Lumin controls great with touch. I don't really mind back touch, but it doesn't really feel necessary for Umbra other than as a cute gimmick. Control scheme B gives proper 1:1 control with no accidental backtouch. The only thing I like about C is that it allows PS TV to play the game at all, and that activating switches is just pressing a button. I wish you could use a hybrid mode so I could just press a physical button to do dark world/Activate, but keep touch controls for Lumen/Umbra.
calc84maniac
Member
I've gotta swear by control scheme C. Covering up the action with my fingers? Terrible. Also, since Lumen still slowly moves toward your finger instead of snapping to position, there's really no speed advantage when using the touchscreen, and I found it harder to focus on what Lumen's current position actually is. And using the touchscreen for the Lumen mazes was terrible because if the camera moves, Lumen moves if you're holding your finger still.
Vita means physical controls
Remembrance
Member
Okay, I beat it fairly. But I can guess what the final boss trophy is, and it's going to come down to either this or luck.
And that ending... I need to think about this hard before I look at others' theories.
And get the true ending, of course.
I use C at all times except for the mazes. I still have to practice the gears parts, but I can guarantee getting through every other part in one try now.
Don't suppose I could try "cheating" by closing the game & restarting from the check point if I were to die & exited out before the game loaded me back at whatever checkpoint I was at. I REALLY just want to get the 2-3 maze done & over with. Curse my obsession of doing the level trophies in order.
Remembrance
Member
It's the third rarest trophy! Seriously, you can come back any time.
Getting through the rest of game might even help you with this, in a certain way.
Just checked, and you were right. I solved it the first time without realizing how that worked.
On the maze note, the maze was not really bad but those gears were pretty frustrating.
SerTapTap
Member
I guess I haven't found the dreaded maze yet. I got sidetracked by finishing up Dangan Ronpa 1&2 (all the trophies I don't hate anyway), hoping I can still finish this week. March is brutal
I'm pretty used to something following your cursor instead of instantly snapping to it, plenty of PC games do that with the mouse (puzzle games, mouse controlled shmups and such), I feel way more in control with touch than the sticks, though maybe playing on PS TV would help with that (but I'm not going to because touch...). Since you're almost always watching Mion not Lumen I didn't really find covering things up to be a problem, except when trying to activate levers with Mion--that's why I wish I could just press X to do that while in the touch control mode.
I'm pretty used to something following your cursor instead of instantly snapping to it, plenty of PC games do that with the mouse (puzzle games, mouse controlled shmups and such), I feel way more in control with touch than the sticks, though maybe playing on PS TV would help with that (but I'm not going to because touch...). Since you're almost always watching Mion not Lumen I didn't really find covering things up to be a problem, except when trying to activate levers with Mion--that's why I wish I could just press X to do that while in the touch control mode.
lazyproblems
Member
Beat the third level/world, went back again to try for that 2-3 maze trophy. The small cog is what keeps screwing me up. I'm just going to have to beat the game and then try for it later.
calc84maniac
Member
Well, I suppose my problem with it is that it creates two layers of "following", with Lumen following my finger and Mion following Lumen. It feels a lot less precise to me than controlling Lumen directly.
I would probably feel a little better about using the touchscreen if I was using a stylus or something, I guess. It feels really awkward moving my finger all the way across the screen while holding my Vita with my other hand. I only put up with Project Diva's touch controls because I could keep my thumb in a small localized area of the screen, and even then the analog sticks feel more responsive in F 2nd.
SerTapTap
Member
You should get a good sense of how fast Lumen moves and be able to move along with that. The game can't just warp Lumen to your finger or you're basically straight-up cheating in certain situations (there are a great deal of "guide the mouse" puzzles on PC that are instantly broken with multitouch/tablet pen for this reason, and may other "click lots of things" that are also very abusable). I can understand why one wouldn't like it, but there's reasons for everything it does.
lazyproblems
Member
Finally got the trophy with analogue controls. It took a lot of practice, but I finally managed it. I thought I took too long during the maze, and wouldn't get it due to time constraints.
edit, thank fucking god the second maze doesn't have a trophy.
edit 2, just beat the second maze... kept missing what to do with the flower.
Remembrance
Member
The second maze was much easier for me, but it is cruel that there was no checkpoint before the flower.
Also, I'm pretty sure it was easy because I beat the part after the flower in an unintended way.
Edit: Man, they make you work to figure out the 4-1 trophy.
Similar threads
- Poll