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If the Hello Games kept all their promises, would No Man's Sky have been any good?

border

Member
Since No Man's Sky was released, people have been tirelessly chronicling falsehoods, half-truths, and lies-by-omission that occurred during the game's PR cycle. There's massive annotated Reddit posts noting every feature that never came to fruition. While I think this is important, and that every publisher or developer should have their feet held to the fire for over-promising or faking demos or under-delivering.....a lot of that stuff has just been petty quibbles masking and ignoring one central problem:

No Man's Sky just isn't really any fun to play for any extended period of time. The core gameplay loop is mostly just a chore. Resource collection is dull, space flight is competent but dogfighting sucks, character movement is plodding, and inventory management is atrocious. Survival/resource management elements are a constant nag that limits your desire to explore. None of these problems would have been helped even if the undelivered features had manifested themselves.

You can't "meet" other players? Even if you could, there's about a 1 in a trillion chance that it might happen. If you were lucky enough to be able to orchestrate meeting another player like those two Redditors did, there's nothing interesting or engaging that you could do together. If me and a friend could go shoot a gun at rocks together, I'd still rather be playing a different game with my friend.

There's no faction alignment system? Okay, but if there was how would it have made the game any better? Most faction-systems in games amount to little more than a progress bar that rewards you with faction-related items, quests, and perks. It makes some faction-controlled areas easier or harder to travel through depending on your faction alignment. Within the shallow framework of No Man's Sky, I don't see how this would have really made much of a difference. Maybe your faction gives you a quest to collect 500 Plutonium and they reward you with nice new engine or a special space ship. You still wouldn't be having any fun.

The scientific simulation isn't as in depth or detailed as described? Biodiversity and geographical diversity are lacking, and there's no accurate orbits or day/night cycles. Procedurally generated lifeforms have janky animations and are just a bunch of cobbled-together body parts? Sure, yes, that's a failure....but one that also would not have impacted gameplay that much. If the game had been able to create more convincing worlds I suppose people might have spent a little more time exploring, but I don't think that is enough to overcome the tedium at the game's core.

People feel cheated and deceived by the game, and in that hurt they've blamed Hello Games' false promises. But that's all a red herring, IMO. The problem is that people simply imagined the game to be way better than it was. The premise of No Man's Sky is something that sounds incredibly compelling on paper. But when that premise is designed and actually implemented into a game, it's incredibly tiresome and shallow. I'm not trying to say that "If you feel disappointed, it's because you got yourself overhyped". But at the same time, I think people willfully ignored big questions about what was going to fuel your sense of progression and exploration and simply assumed that Hello Games was competent enough to fill those questionable gaps with compelling gameplay and content. There was a hopeful faith that an RNG/procedural universe could be as immersive and surprising as a handcrafted one. Was it fair or wise to give Hello Games the benefit of the doubt? I suppose that's up to you.

EDIT: I tend to feel like this game was able to tap into a weird sort of nostalgia, and feed off of it. Again and again on podcasts I heard people say something to the extent of "This is the game I've dreamed about ever since I was a little kid. And someone's finally made it!" Being able to explore a mysterious unknown planet and then just hop on a space ship, get into a massive space battle, and then go explore another planet is something we've all wanted. I think people just got a bit caught up in seeing some childhood dream fulfilled, rather than questioning whether their 12-year-old self really had great game design sensibilities.

TLDR: Blaming your disappointment on the admittedly sheisty No Man's Sky PR is the wrong way to go. Hello Games was ill-advised to promote the game the way they did, but I don't think their false statements are what really brought the game down. People were pretty much blinded by the game's incredible promise, so much so that they stopped asking questions about core issues. In the future, I hope more people can be healthy skeptics even in the face of a game that is incredibly ambitious.
 

Stranya

Member
I'm pretty sure people asked lots of questions, they just didn't get much in the way of satisfactory answers. "What do you do?" was almost a meme, wasn't it?

To answer your question: yes, I think it would have been better had it had the many features discussed/promised but not delivered.

I agree that it's a very shallow game design-wise. I think more of an issue was the pricing. For £15 (or whatever in dollars), people wouldn't have been so disappointed.
 

David___

Banned
As someone who likes it for what it is, NMS is a terrible game. Even if they had all these features in, I doubt it wouldve changed that fact.
 
Well its still a "any good" game without it.

The core aspect of the game is still what they promised. I did get what i expected from the game.

Too many people had silly expectations and more features would have made it better but not that different.
 

Hopeford

Member
I don't think the game would have been good but I'd have enjoyed it a lot. The possibility of meeting a player coupled with amazingly different randomly generated players would have filled me with enough sense of advneture to have fun with the game, even if the loop wasn't great.

What I'm saying is, my favorite game of all time is Skies of Arcadia, and it sure as fuck isn't because of the gameplay. I think if the game was delivered as advertised(or as I dreamed of) I wouldn't have minded the actual gameplay loop sucking.

That said, don't really hate the current game or anything - it's just not for me.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
It'd be roughly the same. On the flip side, if the game were good, people would care way less about the missing stuff. Ultimately it's an issue of a game that could have found success as a little, experimental title that could have done well as an iterative, early access type thing being marketed on a AAA budget as the Game To End All Games, and no one feature would have changed that dynamic.
 

ZeroGravity

Member
The core game is exactly what they intended it to be. You either appreciate what it's trying to do, or you don't. I don't think any of the missing features drastically change that experience because it's not a game that's made for everyone and they were upfront about that when it launched.

Personally, I think it's great.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
The core game is exactly what they intended it to be. You either appreciate what it's trying to do, or you don't. I don't think any of the missing features drastically change that experience because it's not a game that's made for everyone and they were upfront about that when it launched.
.

Yup.
 
The core game is exactly what they intended it to be. You either appreciate what it's trying to do, or you don't. I don't think any of the missing features drastically change that experience because it's not a game that's made for everyone and they were upfront about that when it launched.

Personally, I think it's great.

Agree.
 

TheFatMan

Member
I don't think any of the missing features drastically change that experience.

I appreciate your opinion and you are welcome to it.

But come on....the list of missing features in this game that were clearly shown in trailers and from Seans mouth are staggering. There is no way you can sit here and tell me they wouldn't have drastically changed the experience.

Factions? Huge space battles? Varying planet types (ie water, sand, snow)? Seeing other players? PVP?

Those are pretty big gameplay features that weren't in the game.

But to answer the OP. I don't think you can fix No Man's Sky without making an entirely new game. A boring sandbox game, sadly, still remains a boring sandbox game.
 

mitchman

Gold Member
I like the game and I still play it. Probably 50+ hours. I like the wonder of landing on new planets and seeing new stuff, don't care about going to the center of the galaxy though. It certainly lacks depth in the features, but I still enjoy it.
 

Nosgotham

Junior Member
if it had online multiplayer, even the smallest chance i coukd engage other players, you know like he touted, then i would forgive a lot of other shortcomings. that was a big selling point for me
 

GHG

Member
The core game is exactly what they intended it to be. You either appreciate what it's trying to do, or you don't. I don't think any of the missing features drastically change that experience because it's not a game that's made for everyone and they were upfront about that when it launched.

Personally, I think it's great.

This basically.

In the end all it would have done is left the haters scrambling around looking for a different game to latch on to.
 

rockx4

Member
Even a week before release I still had no idea what the game was. Every interview was them giving a vague yes. I never actually bought into the hype though. A small indie studio supposedly creating a AAA game so large in scope was ridiculous.

But I imagine if they could deliver on those things the game could have been pretty good. The idea of an open space exploration game with fps\space-sim\trading\crafting sounds amazing. None of it sounded possible though.
 

xk0sm0sx

Member
Even if they managed to put in what they promised, such as massively online multiplayer, the stuff from the trailers like the creatures and all, no, the game wouldn't still be much better. Not as bad as now, but still not a good game.

The moment he said stuff like 18 quintillion planets, I already know the game will be boring. People who played enough procedural generated games will know that RNG generators cannot be the main hook. You still need game designers to make the game fun.

If the guy really did spend much time in developing the game, he should be familiar with the main hook of the game himself. He should know what aspects are fun, what aspects are boring. He wouldn't be answering with "You can do anything".

It's also the fault of the internet jumping into this hype. Well now you've learned, game development is not magic. A game is only fun because someone made it fun, not because someone put a bunch of RNG generators and it magically became fun.
 
I appreciate your opinion and you are welcome to it.

But come on....the list of missing features in this game that were clearly shown in trailers and from Seans mouth are staggering. There is no way you can sit here and tell me they wouldn't have drastically changed the experience.

Factions? Huge space battles? Varying planet types (ie water, sand, snow)? Seeing other players? PVP?

Those are pretty big gameplay features that weren't in the game.

But to answer the OP. I don't think you can fix No Man's Sky without making an entirely new game. A boring sandbox game, sadly, still remains a boring sandbox game.

Even smaller things like wear and tear on your ship, naming it, ship classes with different handling, speed, armament etc.

"Players will be attached to their ship and might not want to upgrade."

Not to mention the other major things like having an impact in a significant way in each system, something amazing at the center and finding things between systems if you explored.

All of these things add to the immersion, so yeah saying they wouldn't have changed the experience is odd.
 

border

Member
To answer your question: yes, I think it would have been better had it had the many features discussed/promised but not delivered.

Out of curiosity, which of the undelivered features would have significantly improved the game in your estimation? I have a hard time imagining what would have made the experience better.
 

daveo42

Banned
The core game is exactly what they intended it to be. You either appreciate what it's trying to do, or you don't. I don't think any of the missing features drastically change that experience because it's not a game that's made for everyone and they were upfront about that when it launched.

Personally, I think it's great.

Completely agree. Even with them adding in everything originally pitched, people would have had the same reaction to the game due to the base gameplay loop. I don't think a more fleshed out "ending" at the center or better faction system really changed much because at its heart, it's about jumping from system to system, gathering resources, surviving and scanning stuff.
 
The thing is that Hello Games is a small studio consisting of only 12 employees. The more promises they made, the more skeptical you should be, but a lot of people were blinded by the hype. Even if they had no intention of lying to everyone, I highly doubt they would be able to fulfill all the features they promised without significant delays.

At the end of the day, the game is a glorified tech demo that was marketed as an AAA game and was overhyped with lies leading to its launch.
 

mokeyjoe

Member
Another NMS thread?

With regards to some previous posts, while 'being able to see other players' was touted, 'massively multiplayer', in MMO terms, and 'PvP' were not. This was fansite fantasy.
 

golem

Member
The No Man's Sky they seemed to be promising sounded more like what we have in Elite Dangerous right now but with flora and fauna, which admittedly isn't a game for everyone but I have put a fair amount of hours into.
 

Fredrik

Member
The core game is exactly what they intended it to be. You either appreciate what it's trying to do, or you don't. I don't think any of the missing features drastically change that experience because it's not a game that's made for everyone and they were upfront about that when it launched.

Personally, I think it's great.
Yup, to be honest I couldn't care less about the so called lost features, I've been enjoying this game for over 80 hours so far the way it is. Many of the things people said was missing early on has also been seen which makes me think that the size of this game may be a problem for lots of people, if you're rushing through the game and have bad luck with the planets you might not spot the things that otherwise might've got you hooked. Grinding might be a turn off too.
But as for myself, as it is, I've had more fun with NMS than I've had with any other game this year, and Hello Games haven't even started updating it with new content yet.
 

border

Member
I don't think the game would have been good but I'd have enjoyed it a lot. The possibility of meeting a player coupled with amazingly different randomly generated players would have filled me with enough sense of advneture to have fun with the game, even if the loop wasn't great.
if it had online multiplayer, even the smallest chance i coukd engage other players, you know like he touted, then i would forgive a lot of other shortcomings. that was a big selling point for me

I think this is an example of how people took one of the game's big and incredibly ambitious promises, and imagined it to be much better in theory than it ever could have been in reality.

They were honest in one way - they said that the game has 18 quintillion planets. Even assuming that No Man's Sky was the most popular game ever and they could get 50 million concurrent players, the odds of you being on the same area of the same planet at the same time as another player was probably still less than .001%. The idea that you could run into someone else might be thrilling, but chances are you would have just played it for 20-40 hours and given up after never meeting or seeing anyone.

How many people have even come across planets and animals that were already discovered by other players? Part of the game's hook was that you could discover things and name them, but the sheer vastness of the game means that you may never even come across another player's discoveries. It's fun to find a new animal and name it "BonerHead", but that fun dissipates as you realize nobody will ever see this unique and beautiful creature or chuckle at the witty name you've given it.
 

mokeyjoe

Member
Yeah, I kind of feel that the 'missing features' were blown out of proportion as they were mostly cosmetic anyway. Animals not drinking from water, ringed planets - that sort of thing. It wouldn't have dramatically affected people's experience, I feel.

The 'problem' with NMS is that the core mechanics aren't engaging enough, and there was very little directly said about them before release (hence the 'what do you do?' meme). Speaking as someone who enjoys the game for what it is, I would still like to see some more gameplay-centric elements incorporated alongside the aimless exploration side of things.

This doesn't even have to be a big deal, and it's not a technical issue. Gameplay can be super simple yet fun, and having some simple but engaging mechanics set against the backdrop of the NMS universe would elevate the game immensely. It's essentially the trick Elite pulled in the 80s, the simple but effective trading game set against the giant procedural galaxy.
 

Rhete

Banned
Multiplayer absolutely would have changed the game, there would be a good reason to get to the center as everyone would eventually naturally congregate there.
 

Fredrik

Member
How many people have even come across planets and animals that were already discovered by other players? Part of the game's hook was that you could discover things and name them, but the sheer vastness of the game means that you may never even come across another player's discoveries. It's fun to find a new animal and name it "BonerHead", but that fun dissipates as you realize nobody will ever see this unique and beautiful creature or chuckle at the witty name you've given it.
This is very true from my experience. In my 80 hours I've found zero planets, solar systems and animals discovered by another player. :/ I'm still nowhere near the centre of the universe though.

At first I was somewhat serious when naming the animals, tried to explain the look, like "Twin Wing Bat" and "Six Legged Puma" or whatever, but eventually I started asking my daughter what they should be called and added her made-up words as their names :p
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
No because the core gameplay is the most fundamental issue the game has, and also the thing they were the most coy about. They listed pie-in-the-sky features or set a new record for vagueness in describing gameplay mechanics and people ate it up, but the moment-to-moment gameplay and mechanics far undershot the image they painted of the game and pretty much had a domino effect on all of the "higher level" experiences the game promised, like exploration and how exciting the journey would be.

Pretty much every other early critic of this game saw this coming despite the promises devs made while people who drank the kool-aid were blinded by the idea that they were getting gods gift to the sci-fi genre.
 
I never really drank the kool aid but the whole concept sounded... boring to me. When a friend was trying to explain it to me I was just like... ehh. :/
 

border

Member
I'm pretty sure people asked lots of questions, they just didn't get much in the way of satisfactory answers. "What do you do?" was almost a meme, wasn't it?
The 'problem' with NMS is that the core mechanics aren't engaging enough, and there was very little directly said about them before release (hence the 'what do you do?' meme).

I did not address this, mostly because I did not want this thread to become a question of whether or not the "What do you do?" crowd was right.

I would note though, that there was a time when many people considered "What do you do?" to be shitposting -- people being willfully ignorant and obtuse about the game as a way of trolling or riling up more ardent No Man's Sky supporters.

I wouldn't say that "What do you do" people were intellectually honest or healthily skeptical. The question of what you do in the game is as easily answered as it ever was -- you fly from planet to planet, collecting resources to fuel further exploration, trading/engaging with NPCs or monuments of interest to further character/ship progression.

At its core though, the question that people meant when they said "What do you do?" was really "Are any of these activities going to be substantial, fun, or compelling?" That was the proper question to ask. Phrasing it as "What do you do?" was just kind of lame and troll-ish.
 
Let me get this out of the way first. If you are enjoying the game then that's great. Seriously. This isn't meant to tell you that you shouldn't be.

Now, having said that, this sentiment that the game is still the same at the core is puzzling to me.

I mean, we where promised one thing and got another.

Lets say we where promised this,

tetris-party-deluxe-wii-10.jpg


and what we got was this,

yui-tetris-thumb.png


You could definitely say that both of these share the same core mechanics and you may even be able to say that the same people that can enjoy the latter could enjoy the former simply because they enjoy the core mechanics. But not necessarily the other way around.

Thing is that for some people it really is those extra features that makes everything just click and be able to enjoy something for hours upon hours. Otherwise why do anything beyond those core mechanics if that's all that really matters?

Then there is the failed expectations. If I was expecting one thing because of what was said and then I got the other then that would definitely put a bad taste in my mouth. Which would grow exponentially with the amount of time and hype I invested following the game along with the $ amount that I spent on it as well.

So the answer is yes. I think it would have absolutely been better.

I don't see how that is hard to understand. I mean, I can definitely understand how some people can still enjoy what is there just like I can understand how someone can enjoy the basic bare bones Tetris knockoff. Heck, even I do that from time to time.
 

Machina

Banned
Procedural generation was always NMS's problem, and one that can't be fixed. It's just a deeply flawed way to make games and borders on lazy.
 

OnPoint

Member
I appreciate your opinion and you are welcome to it.

But come on....the list of missing features in this game that were clearly shown in trailers and from Seans mouth are staggering. There is no way you can sit here and tell me they wouldn't have drastically changed the experience.

Factions? Huge space battles? Varying planet types (ie water, sand, snow)? Seeing other players? PVP?

Those are pretty big gameplay features that weren't in the game.

But to answer the OP. I don't think you can fix No Man's Sky without making an entirely new game. A boring sandbox game, sadly, still remains a boring sandbox game.
I found a snow and a water planet in my playtime. They're just rare I think.
 
You can do all of the 'promised' things in Elite Dangerous. It's just less stylised, and you can't get out on-foot on planets to explore, just in a nifty space buggy. But that's more fun anyway. Flying around in a group of mates exploring and attacking players and fighting in NPC warzones is awesome.

People who are disheartened by how NMS turned out should definitely try it out.
 

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
The core game is exactly what they intended it to be. You either appreciate what it's trying to do, or you don't. I don't think any of the missing features drastically change that experience because it's not a game that's made for everyone and they were upfront about that when it launched.

Personally, I think it's great.

Yup. Frankly, it's exactly what I thought it would be, for the most part. The only omission that surprised me was the complete lack of multiplayer, which really seemed like a key part of the game's DNA. That is to say, even if you never met anyone else (which I never planned to anyway), the notion that all these other people were out there...somewhere...discovering things you'll probably never see was a really cool one.

But yeah, while a ton of nice-to-have stuff is missing, and in many ways it's a $60 early access game, I find the gameplay loop engaging, I've played it for about 150 hours. I hope they add much of what they originally talked about in future updates, and more besides, but as it stands I'm happy with what I bought: A (fairly simple and easy) survival game in space. No amount of additions are going to make it anything other than that.

You can do all of the 'promised' things in Elite Dangerous. It's just less stylised, and you can't get out on-foot on planets to explore, just in a nifty space buggy. But that's more fun anyway. Flying around in a group of mates exploring and attacking players and fighting in NPC warzones is awesome.

People who are disheartened by how NMS turned out should definitely try it out.

Suggesting Elite Dangerous to someone who was disappointed by No Man's Sky is like suggesting Tartakovsky's Solaris to someone who was disappointed by The Force Awakens. They're going for such utterly different things that the notion that one could satisfy the same cravings as the other is absurd.
 

Ollie Pooch

In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Most of the time that mindless grind that NMS personifies usually ends with a reward - grind in this game gets you an extra inventory slot or a cosmetic skin for a ship and not much else.

If it had even just some small rewards / unlockables/ items / loot / rare skins or something it'd actually be more compelling, IMO. People love digital trinkets :p

It just feels pointless, because you get nothing for all the grind.
 

themandu

Member
I appreciate your opinion and you are welcome to it.

But come on....the list of missing features in this game that were clearly shown in trailers and from Seans mouth are staggering. There is no way you can sit here and tell me they wouldn't have drastically changed the experience.

Factions? Huge space battles? Varying planet types (ie water, sand, snow)? Seeing other players? PVP?

Those are pretty big gameplay features that weren't in the game.

But to answer the OP. I don't think you can fix No Man's Sky without making an entirely new game. A boring sandbox game, sadly, still remains a boring sandbox game.

Let's not forget portals.
 
The premise for the argument is faulty - "would No Man's Sky have been any good?"

It was 'any good'.

Of course opinions are subjective, but I could confidently say the game at least had 'some good' in it .

TBH I'm a little confused as to why Sean over-promised some of the features in the game - and it is disappointing. But I still enjoyed it.
 
I haven't played NMS yet and it looks OK, but in all honesty, I never seen why so many people were genuinely hyped or intrigued by it.
 

border

Member
Confirmation bias: the thread.

How so? I won't deny that I was skeptical of No Man's Sky. Still though, I preordered the Collector's Edition and was open to what Hello Games was offering. But I thought it would just be a chill exploration game where I could hop from continent to continent and later planet to planet with relative ease, and find lots of weird flora and fauna. What I got was a game where the survival/resource management elements were so oppressive that I didn't really feel like doing any exploration.

Admittedly it doesn't take a lot of survival/inventory management elements to turn me off on a game, but it's not really of a matter of "I thought the game would be bad because of X, and I was totally right because it had X!" Maybe I should have paid more attention to streams/demos that showed off survival elements of the game, but I don't think it is a matter of confirmation bias. I expected one thing and got a different thing.
 

mikestrife

Member
From the first announcement NMS seemed to be a slow paced exploration game, so if you're not into that it wouldn't help at all, but if it had all that stuff in there I think it would be a much better experience for players who do like that kinda game.

As it is know, it's not fun to explore because there's so much of it is samey, if it had all the variation that was promised it would be more exciting to check out different planets and work towards getting better ships as well as dealing with other races.

Still probably wouldn't be worth full price though.
 
Honestly, I don't think it would have made the game much more enjoyable for those who already dislike it at its core. I had a chance to borrow my cousin's copy for a couple of days, but all the resource gathering and the cumbersome menu turned me off of the game.
 

Formosa

Member
Hell no. I knew from the start that the game would suck. It's just too boring to play for me. I would really like to know how the people that are playing this game enjoy playing it.
 
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