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[Feel Like I'm On 42]

And you can still play it, why was there a need for another one

Come on man it's not rocket science. LoU2 had massive improvements to the core movement and shooting mechanics. Also graphics and sound. A new multiplayer game would've been awesome. I'm not even a big multiplayer guy but I would've loved to play this.

 

[DenchDeckard]

They literally topped developing the game not because they thought it would fail, but because they thought it would succeed and change the entire studio make up.

This is utterly fantastic news the more I break it down further.

They quite literally said no to a bag of Live Service money in order to stay TRUE TO THEIR ROOTS

Tag checks out.

 

[Varteras]

It may be one of the projects that are being reworked a bit. A bunch of them got cancelled, while many others have shifted. Costs of GAAS are too high for Sony to stomach.

I'd like to pick your brain about some things on this topic. What do you know or think of Sony's GAAS intentions at this point? I think it's clear that they're pivoting away, but how hard is that pivot for their internal teams? The Last of Us Online is clearly the most high profile stoppage, with Deviation's game having apparently been canceled as well. Bungie seems to be now struggling with it themselves, but I think that's more of a management issue than general capability. Seeing as how they had no problem with Destiny, until recently, after doing it for almost a decade.

They have/had a fair number of studios working on such games. No doubt some of those are likely being reworked, if not canceled as well, but what do you think it looks like at the end of the pivot? Will there only be a one or two of their current studios that do GAAS? Such as Bungie and Firewalk? Maybe Haven as well? Among studios that really want to do multiplayer, will they have smaller scale ambitions going forward for the most part? Are they largely giving up on GAAS or taking a different approach?

Sony has already mentioned their plans for expansion and likely did so at a time when it was already clear internally that their GAAS drive was not going to go the way they wanted. Apparently, we'll learn more of their acquisition and merger plans at their annual fiscal presentation in Spring. They've also made it clear they want to expand in mobile, but the only real movement we saw on that was the acquisition of Neon Koi almost a year and a half ago. A number of posters here have speculated that it's likely Sony's only good option for breaking into mobile will be to acquire a company that is already very successful in it.

That being said, do you think that same approach would be their best option for GAAS? They already started that with Bungie, obviously. Assuming, of course, that they still have the desire for it. Or, could there be something at play which is causing Sony to rethink their entire strategy and what we thought we knew is now out the window? Outside of the immense and growing costs of running big live service games today.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

Come on man it's not rocket science. LoU2 had massive improvements to the core movement and shooting mechanics. Also graphics and sound. A new multiplayer game would've been awesome. I'm not even a big multiplayer guy but I would've loved to play this.

This is what gets to me about this whole situation. The core mechanics were vastly improved, I wanted a multiplayer game with those implemented. For me that was the only redeeming quality of the Part 2.

 

[Puscifer]

I love it when people on Gaf tell us we don’t know nothing about game development. That we should trust the judgement of high level execs. And then we see these idiots admit that they didn’t think about how much resources it would take to support live service games.

Everyone on this board realized this fucking years ago and it took 5 years of development for geniuses like Druckman, Herman and jimbo to figure this out? Fucking amateurs.

Said it a million times over. Modern game development is too intense for your projects to "grow beyond your scope" and that was every warning sign we needed in hindsight to know this shit was doomed. It only took 2 billion dollars and a developer with 20 years to take one look at the project and go "well this is shit, don't do it" lmao

 

[SneakersSO]

I'd like to pick your brain about some things on this topic. What do you know or think of Sony's GAAS intentions at this point? I think it's clear that they're pivoting away, but how hard is that pivot for their internal teams? The Last of Us Online is clearly the most high profile stoppage, with Deviation's game having apparently been canceled as well. Bungie seems to be now struggling with it themselves, but I think that's more of a management issue than general capability. Seeing as how they had no problem with Destiny, until recently, after doing it for almost a decade.

They have/had a fair number of studios working on such games. No doubt some of those are likely being reworked, if not canceled as well, but what do you think it looks like at the end of the pivot? Will there only be a one or two of their current studios that do GAAS? Such as Bungie and Firewalk? Maybe Haven as well? Among studios that really want to do multiplayer, will they have smaller scale ambitions going forward for the most part? Are they largely giving up on GAAS or taking a different approach?

Speaking broadly/generally, Sony's strategy with their GAAS expansion was one where they would release 6+ titles, hoping 1-3 of them hit instead of all, then they would've taken the newly minted teams and expanded them into support studios for the games that did hit. Part of this strategy was born from 2 GAAS titles emerging as PS+ included titles at launch, which then grow into strong revenue drivers until they were purchased - speaking specifically here about Rocket League and Fall Guys.

I mentioned this in the thread that was locked, but I think the reality of launching GAAS now is far different than anyone expected it to be, with outrageous costs and out-sized expectations. Just to address the idea that 'new GAAS is doing well' - the issue with live-service titles isn't them doing well at launch. Multiversus also had great numbers at launch, same for Rumbleverse, or Fall Guys. The issue is retaining players after the initial phase, on top of properly monetizing them early so that new monetization practices doesn't alienate your hardcore playerbase or whales. Lethal Company and The Finals doing well now is fine. Every single one of those Sony titles likely does well initially; the real question is how well have players been retained in 6/12/18 months, how much did you need to drastically increase your production pipeline in order to maintain those users, and how much is the revenue those users you do have bringing in versus what your production and operating costs have now ballooned into.

I do think that Sony will attempt several GAAS titles still, but many of those games that were in dev are going to be reworked into 'limited live-service' platforms. Think of something more akin to Monster Hunter World/Rise, instead of something that is meant to be ever-lasting, like a Destiny or a Fortnite. Some of these games might just get reworked into a mode or feature provided in a larger game's content suite. Others will be reworked into a co-op limited live-service offering like the MH example I mentioned, since the costs on networking are far smaller on such experiences.

Sony has already mentioned their plans for expansion and likely did so at a time when it was already clear internally that their GAAS drive was not going to go the way they wanted. Apparently, we'll learn more of their acquisition and merger plans at their annual fiscal presentation in Spring. They've also made it clear they want to expand in mobile, but the only real movement we saw on that was the acquisition of Neon Koi almost a year and a half ago. A number of posters here have speculated that it's likely Sony's only good option for breaking into mobile will be to acquire a company that is already very successful in it.

That being said, do you think that same approach would be their best option for GAAS? They already started that with Bungie, obviously. Assuming, of course, that they still have the desire for it. Or, could there be something at play which is causing Sony to rethink their entire strategy and what we thought we knew is now out the window? Outside of the immense and growing costs of running big live service games today.

RE: mobile expansion - I think we're increasingly entering into an age where console games will be viewed as 'mobile' games. I think things like the Playstation Portal far exceeding expectations, driven by the use case that they identified with Remote Play and how users were increasingly using it to play their consoles while on the go or while the main entertainment screen in the home was being used for something else.

I realize that this sounds a lot like the same pitch for Cloud. I'm not very confident in the use case of Cloud for the sake of Cloud, as a cost saving measure for entry into console gaming or gaming in general, but as a case on how to play games you already own on other compatible devices, I think its a fantastic way to get users invested. Bit of a tangent, I know. The thing is though, purchasing big companies in the mobile sector can work, but they ultimately just become revenue streams, just adding their revenue to your books. What Nintendo has done in mobile is for sure a viable way Playstation can (and will) pursue mobile growth in the future, but notice that Nintendo didn't have to purchase anyone outright for that growth to happen. Sony saying they are going to pursue partnerships further is more evidence of their mobile growth strategy.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I'd like to pick your brain about some things on this topic. What do you know or think of Sony's GAAS intentions at this point? I think it's clear that they're pivoting away, but how hard is that pivot for their internal teams?

Why do you think it's clear?

In May of 2022 they planned to spend 55% of their resources on Live Service.

In May of 2023 they upped that number to 60%.

A few weeks ago Mr. Tatoki just said in a broken english interview that their mid to long range strategy remains unchanged surrounding Live Service.

What happened in the last 7 months (or last few weeks) that tells you it's clear they're pivoting away?

 

[Fake]

Horizon devs:

 

[TGO]

Except they made Uncharted 4 which is better than 1 and 3, and TLoU2 which is better than TLoU.

And we haven't seen their next game yet (we hadn't even seen this GaaS game either)

So are you upset that this GaaS game isn't coming out?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Can you just not listen to the podcasts then?

I already don't listen to them, but these dudes are also on Twitter and for some reason their posts show up in my timeline. It's never bad enough to make me mute or block most of them, but there's always something they say which turns out to be BS and just more FUD directed at PS.

But I get the reason; they're engagement posts. Algorithm crap.

 

[DoomGyver]

What a waste.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I don't buy any of this horse-shit about it being a mutually exclusive choice between between being a single-player or GaaS studio. If Factions 2 blew up they could expand the studio to handle the live service content while the rest of the team transitioned to the next project, like dozens of other studios that struck multiplayer gold in the past few decades.

It was probably dog shit, even Bungie thought it was crap, and they threw this statement out to make people feel happy about their inability to do multiplayer.

The alternative is believing that they had a profitable multiplayer game ready to go, but were allowed to scrap years of work because money-hungry Sony didn't want to convert the entire studio to a live-service model. I smell incompetence-tinged bullshit

 

[RickMasters]

Seems like the underestimated the level of resources and time that goes into maintaining gass games. I thought the whole point of acquiring bungie was to enlighten and lead their teams through this process? I think its best to let ND (and other sony 1st party who are not equipped for this type of game) do what they do best and maybe just set up dev teams just for the gaas stuff?


I predict this wont be their only GAAs game that gets cancelled. But i think marathon will be safe. some people might be happy that games like this fail, but as a business, sony needs one ot to games in that space that do well for their own pockets at the end of the day. single player games dont have the kind of player retention or generate the kind of profits these types of games do, when they are successful. Sony does not simply need a few GAAS games...they need good ones that get people spending...thats what this is all about after all.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Seems like the underestimated the level of resources and time that goes into maintaining gass games. I thought the whole point of acquiring bungie was to enlighten and lead their teams through this process? I think its best to let ND (and other sony 1st party who are not equipped for this type of game) do what they do best and maybe just set up dev teams just for the gaas stuff?


I predict this wont be their only GAAs game that gets cancelled. But i think marathon will be safe. some people might be happy that games like this fail, but as a business, sony needs one ot to games in that space that do well for their own pockets at the end of the day. single player games dont have the kind of player retention or generate the kind of profits these types of games do, when they are successful. Sony does not simply need a few GAAS games...they need good ones that get people spending...thats what this is all about after all.

They already partnered up with Deviation Games for an unknown game (but likely a shooter GAAS game) as the heads were ex Activision COD vets. And this past summer the studio gutted 90% of the staff. So the studio is basically dead. I dont know if this game is one of the official Sony GAAS games they touted in 2022, but either way it's dead.

Looks like Sony has used 2023 as a turning point to deviate (no pun intended) from their full on GAAS strategy. One of the Sony execs even said half of those 12 GAAS games will be delayed till another year as they were originally communicated to be all released by 2025.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

 

[sachos]

This is good news since they are back to being full SP focused team but dude, the amount of time and money they wasted on this. Reminds me of the time its taking Rocksteady to make the Suicide Squad GAAS is the same amount of time as they took to make the original Arkham Trilogy, insane. I really don't like GAAS.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

It means they are all on the chopping block.

Which is music to my ears. Stop wasting time and resources on crap that is nothing but a huge gamble. I've said it before and I'll say it again, GAAS is orders of magnitude more risky than any single player project will ever be. The amount of resources needed to keep these projects going is tremendous and they quickly become an endless money pit unless the game isn't successful right off the bat.

We have seen how much Rockstar's single player offerings (and intervals) have suffered since the focus turned to their online offerings. But they have been one of the few who have been successful in this area. For every GAAS project that succeeds there are hundreds of casualties, most of which have catastrophic results for the studio/publisher.

They all need to stop chasing the white rabbit.

Personally, I think th eone surefire GaaS Sony have still is the Spiderman one. They would avoid all the mistakes Avengers made, and maybe they can get some non-Spiderman characters in there too because honestly, the MCU could really benefit from it. Outside of that though, that GaaS plans are probably being notably scaled down. Helldivers 2 is still coming (I think it looks pretty good), I'm still surprised there's been no F2P version of MLB The Show yet particularly for mobile.

I can't see Fairgame$ or Concord getting cancelled but like S SneakersSO was saying they may retool them into limited-live service games or make them SP-centric with some MP modes thrown in for good measure. I think the means of returning to SP releases every year or two with new content like seen with UC4 expansion, or Miles Morales, or Burning Shores may be one of better options for retaining/bringing people back into the fold while letting the teams flex on what they're best at.

No. If the multiplayer is not GAAS, people will not stay and play it, simple as. They'll go back to the games that actually feed them content weekly and monthly.
Bungie gave Naughty Dog their suggestions. They have many years of data to back up their claims. The decision would lie on ND: do you continue making this game, knowing that you'll release it, have some "big" launch month, and then everyone abandon it, leaving it with a 1000 playerbase or you have 400 devs constantly working on it?
The MP of 10 years ago is dead. Better get to grips with it. It's either GAAS and a respectable amount of players, if you are lucky and talented, or a player count that doesn't pay for its own server maintenance.

It doesn't really matter if people "stay" to play it; some will inevitably stay if the MP is good enough and they'll be high ARPU spenders in the ecosystem more likely than not anyway. Any MP stuff added or one-off modes can also toy with mechanics that can be tested and refined for inclusion in a proper sequel.

I don't think the MP of yesteryear is dead, because how is Nintendo able to make it work with their release strategy for Mario Kart, Smash Bros. and other such games? They update those games once every few months with new content and they keep selling well as evergreen properties and retain loyal communities. It's not an anomaly with Nintendo, or at least it doesn't have to be. But, it does require at least trying.

I do think that Sony will attempt several GAAS titles still, but many of those games that were in dev are going to be reworked into 'limited live-service' platforms. Think of something more akin to Monster Hunter World/Rise, instead of something that is meant to be ever-lasting, like a Destiny or a Fortnite. Some of these games might just get reworked into a mode or feature provided in a larger game's content suite. Others will be reworked into a co-op limited live-service offering like the MH example I mentioned, since the costs on networking are far smaller on such experiences.

That's what I see happening, too, and it makes sense. I'm curious if, say, Fairgames$ and/or Concord, have been revamped into more SP-centric titles with limited live-service elements akin to GT7. I expect Insomniac's game will probably still be a fuller GaaS, but they have multiple large studios, and could always expand even more if needed, plus one or a couple of the other Sony studios could help out with content. Or, just work with other studios to do outsourced content for it.

RE: mobile expansion - I think we're increasingly entering into an age where console games will be viewed as 'mobile' games. I think things like the Playstation Portal far exceeding expectations, driven by the use case that they identified with Remote Play and how users were increasingly using it to play their consoles while on the go or while the main entertainment screen in the home was being used for something else.

I realize that this sounds a lot like the same pitch for Cloud. I'm not very confident in the use case of Cloud for the sake of Cloud, as a cost saving measure for entry into console gaming or gaming in general, but as a case on how to play games you already own on other compatible devices, I think its a fantastic way to get users invested. Bit of a tangent, I know. The thing is though, purchasing big companies in the mobile sector can work, but they ultimately just become revenue streams, just adding their revenue to your books. What Nintendo has done in mobile is for sure a viable way Playstation can (and will) pursue mobile growth in the future, but notice that Nintendo didn't have to purchase anyone outright for that growth to happen. Sony saying they are going to pursue partnerships further is more evidence of their mobile growth strategy.

Yep; honestly Sony should've been taking a Nintendo-like approach not just to mobile but also PC IMHO, but what's done is done. Maybe they are re-focusing the PC plans, but as far as mobile is concerned, growing IP out into that space working/partnering with mobile developers to do such, with offerings catered to the mobile platform (i.e not doing straight up ports of console games to mobile except in some limited means like with lower/mid-end AA if Sony pursue more 1P or 2P AA software development), is the way to go.

Like for example, they should've been had a version of MLB The Show for mobile by now that they publish. Could make it F2P, take design cues and features from the console game and maybe integrate fantasy sports elements into it as well synced with actual seasonal events & sponsorships, etc. They could also loosen up with some goofier arcade-style content for such a version, and incentivize crossover rewards between the regular console/PC versions and mobile version for PS+ subscribers, like various perks and so forth.

It just makes too much sense to not do.

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

I don't buy any of this horse-shit about it being a mutually exclusive choice between between being a single-player or GaaS studio. If Factions 2 blew up they could expand the studio to handle the live service content while the rest of the team transitioned to the next project, like dozens of other studios that struck multiplayer gold in the past few decades.

It was probably dog shit, even Bungie thought it was crap, and they threw this statement out to make people feel happy about their inability to do multiplayer.

The alternative is believing that they had a profitable multiplayer game ready to go, but were allowed to scrap years of work because money-hungry Sony didn't want to convert the entire studio to a live-service model. I smell incompetence-tinged bullshit

Oh I mean it is obviously absurd BS that only the most terminally Copium inhaling ND fans would buy. However it is a smart statement as it makes sense as long as you don't think about it at all.

They're talking about it for years, Druckmann goes to game awards, this is the main project in the studio, allegedly development is going fine (says ND and their stans for years on end)... and wait, did anyone check if Mutliplayer games need updates post launch? WTF they do? Omg, none of us knew, nor did Sony, cancel the whole thing! Yeah, if you buy that I got a bridge to sell you..
No, obviously development was not going well, they wasted their time, money and resources and Sony finally caught on. They asked to see what Druckmann was able to put together in 5+ years, it was a mess, project cancelled, spin PR statement made. Absolute clown show from the studio. Y'know, not that long ago ND was able to make new Games, DLC for the games and Multiplayer all at once! Now none of those lol. Absolute best case scenario is a new game is many years away at this point, but that would also require Druckmann to get off the set of TLOU HBO show where he likes to pretend he is doing something by the presence of his pleasant aura I suppose.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Sony is telling the fans there's no crowd for a remastered Socom game or a new one but these incompetent developers waste millions of dollars for nothing. Way to go you clowns.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Seems like the underestimated the level of resources and time that goes into maintaining gass games. I thought the whole point of acquiring bungie was to enlighten and lead their teams through this process? I think its best to let ND (and other sony 1st party who are not equipped for this type of game) do what they do best and maybe just set up dev teams just for the gaas stuff?

The situation is bigger and deeper. Sony's failure reflects badly on themselves but is also damning to the whole pursuit of GaaS for the entire industry

I predict this wont be their only GAAs game that gets cancelled.

But i think marathon will be safe. some people might be happy that games like this fail, but as a business, sony needs one ot to games in that space that do well for their own pockets at the end of the day. single player games dont have the kind of player retention or generate the kind of profits these types of games do, when they are successful. Sony does not simply need a few GAAS games...they need good ones that get people spending...thats what this is all about after all.

GaaS are not cheap to maintain and required an army to maintain. that is the point of the first statement.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I don't buy any of this horse-shit about it being a mutually exclusive choice between between being a single-player or GaaS studio. If Factions 2 blew up they could expand the studio to handle the live service content while the rest of the team transitioned to the next project, like dozens of other studios that struck multiplayer gold in the past few decades.

It was probably dog shit, even Bungie thought it was crap, and they threw this statement out to make people feel happy about their inability to do multiplayer.

The alternative is believing that they had a profitable multiplayer game ready to go, but were allowed to scrap years of work because money-hungry Sony didn't want to convert the entire studio to a live-service model. I smell incompetence-tinged bullshit

is nice to live in a bubble.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

GaaS are not cheap to maintain and required an army to maintain. that is the point of the first statement.

Hi Rez Studios are still updating Paladins with maps, heroes, and balance patches today.

Paladins is that Overwatch clone from a few years back that very few people play. It's still being updated because it's profitable for Hi Rez Studios to do so.

You're statement is silly as it ignores the variety of games found within the model.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Was that studio that's headed up by Jade Raymond making a gaas game?

 

[Rockman33]

Everyone bending over backwards to spin this as a positive is completely delusional.

It took them over 3 years to realize they needed to maintain a GaaS with studio resources?!

This press release is such a huge misdirection and spin and yet people are eating it up.

This is a huge blunder by ND and Sony. For some bizarre reason people keep giving Sony the benefit of the doubt with everything. When so far this entire generation they have done more negative things for the community than positive.

-Higher price on subscriptions
-Only 1 new IP in 3 years
-In less than a year pretty much abandoned a peripheral that cost $500
-Released cheaper to manufacture consoles and either raised or kept the prices the same
-Incredibly lackluster announced future games. Wolverine looks awesome, but aside from that?

It’s just crazy to me how many people keep supporting them entering the GaaS industry when pretty much none of those people like those games. Stating “they need to”, “it’s a good idea financially”. Since when the fuck do consumers care how much money giant corporations make? They are already the leading platform. How much more money do they need to make?!

Companies only change when they hear people complain and have dissatisfaction. Look at Xbox, people bitched forever and they finally listened and grew their first party immensely and will HOPEFULLY finally have a steady schedule of 1st party games from now on. 2023 was a good start and 2024 and beyond should sustain that.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It’s just crazy to me how many people keep supporting them entering the GaaS industry when pretty much none of those people like those games.

Go look at the top played games on PlayStation every month. It's like 80% GAAS games. The PlayStation audience overwhelmingly play and prefer GAAS. I think it's certain bubbles online that still don't realize this.

Education is so important.

 

[geary]

Respawn reaction while putting out:
1. Apex Legends
2. Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order
3. Star Wars Jedi: Survivor

and working on
4. Star Wars Jedi: 3
5. Unannounced game

 

[DenchDeckard]

Everyone bending over backwards to spin this as a positive is completely delusional.

It took them over 3 years to realize they needed to maintain a GaaS with studio resources?!

This press release is such a huge misdirection and spin and yet people are eating it up.

This is a huge blunder by ND and Sony. For some bizarre reason people keep giving Sony the benefit of the doubt with everything. When so far this entire generation they have done more negative things for the community than positive.

-Higher price on subscriptions
-Only 1 new IP in 3 years
-In less than a year pretty much abandoned a peripheral that cost $500
-Released cheaper to manufacture consoles and either raised or kept the prices the same
-Incredibly lackluster announced future games. Wolverine looks awesome, but aside from that?

It’s just crazy to me how many people keep supporting them entering the GaaS industry when pretty much none of those people like those games. Stating “they need to”, “it’s a good idea financially”. Since when the fuck do consumers care how much money giant corporations make? They are already the leading platform. How much more money do they need to make?!

Companies only change when they hear people complain and have dissatisfaction. Look at Xbox, people bitched forever and they finally listened and grew their first party immensely and will HOPEFULLY finally have a steady schedule of 1st party games from now on. 2023 was a good start and 2024 and beyond should sustain that.

Sony have garnered a lot of good faith so they are or have been given the benifit of the doubt.

They released one game in 2023 and the bad news is piling up. There will be a tipping point or they will redeem it all by having a killer showcase, hopefully soon.

I think everything you say is completely valid, but it's just the way it is for now.

Let's see what happens over the next 3 months. They have to have a killer show lined up. The last one was received pretty damn poorly I believe? I think they have to nail the next one or the mask will slip.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Everyone bending over backwards to spin this as a positive is completely delusional.

is positive and negative at the same time.

It took them over 3 years to realize they needed to maintain a GaaS with studio resources?!

it was more than that

This press release is such a huge misdirection and spin and yet people are eating it up.

the excuse or reason very well be bullshit, but not the consequences.

This is a huge blunder by ND and Sony. For some bizarre reason people keep giving Sony the benefit of the doubt with everything

that's what a good track record buys you

. When so far this entire generation they have done more negative things for the community than positive.

-Higher price on subscriptions

Everything is going up in prices, look at disney, Netflix and even Game Pass, ban of Third party controlles, rewards points going down.

-Only 1 new IP in 3 years

AAA and quality games take longer to make buddy.everyone is in the same boat.

-In less than a year pretty much abandoned a peripheral that cost $500

games take longer to make.

-Released cheaper to manufacture consoles and either raised or kept the prices the same

business.

-Incredibly lackluster announced future games. Wolverine looks awesome, but aside from that?

What is the alternative? reveal a bunch of games thar are not even in production? and ended up with a bunch of titles lost in limbo?.

Sony could be fucked up internally. and games are simple not ready to show. as simple as that.

It’s just crazy to me how many people keep supporting them entering the GaaS industry when pretty much none of those people like those games. Stating “they need to”, “it’s a good idea financially”.

i think the vast majority of people are NOT supporting the pivot, but is undestandable for sony to pursue that. Yet sony itself has said that they are going to downscale such pivot.

Since when the fuck do consumers care how much money giant corporations make? They are already the leading platform. How much more money do they need to make?!

NeoGaf:

Companies only change when they hear people complain and have dissatisfaction.

you mean speaking with their wallet?

Look at Xbox, people bitched forever and they finally listened and grew their first party immensely and will HOPEFULLY finally have a steady schedule of 1st party games from now on. 2023 was a good start and 2024 and beyond should sustain that.

2023 was a disaster for Xbox and 2024 looks worse.

 

[Elginer]

What a shit show. Years wasted and all we’ve got is remasters of games that didn’t remasters. This has been the most terrible output for ND in ages. Hell, Santa Monica which are infamously slow are beating them and don’t even mention insomniac. It seems Sony and the studio has been too high on smelling their own farts and awards instead of remembering their job is to make fun games. It’s like a fucking one hit wonder has been musician once again belting out their hits hey you guys remember this jam well it’s back… again. Time to move on.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Hi Rez Studios are still updating Paladins with maps, heroes, and balance patches today.

Paladins is that Overwatch clone from a few years back that very few people play. It's still being updated because it's profitable for Hi Rez Studios to do so.

You're statement is silly as it ignores the variety of games found within the model.

You quoted the wrong person.

 

[Rockman33]

Go look at the top played games on PlayStation every month. It's like 80% GAAS games. The PlayStation audience overwhelmingly play and prefer GAAS. I think it's certain bubbles online that still don't realize this.

Education is so important.

Did I say they weren’t popular or this group of people on gaf don’t prefer them even though they for some twisted reason support the decision. Sony is known for great single player games, their studios are built around that. Name me one studio that was built for single player games that then became a successful GaaS studio?

Read my post boss and stop drinking the koolaid.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Did I say they weren’t popular or this group of people on gaf don’t prefer them even though they for some twisted reason support the decision. Sony is known for great single player games, their studios are built around that. Name me one studio that was built for single player games that then became a successful GaaS studio?

Read my post boss and stop drinking the koolaid.

Every successful multiplayer studio started out as a single player studio.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Everyone bending over backwards to spin this as a positive is completely delusional.

It took them over 3 years to realize they needed to maintain a GaaS with studio resources?!

This press release is such a huge misdirection and spin and yet people are eating it up.

This is a huge blunder by ND and Sony. For some bizarre reason people keep giving Sony the benefit of the doubt with everything. When so far this entire generation they have done more negative things for the community than positive.

-Higher price on subscriptions
-Only 1 new IP in 3 years
-In less than a year pretty much abandoned a peripheral that cost $500
-Released cheaper to manufacture consoles and either raised or kept the prices the same
-Incredibly lackluster announced future games. Wolverine looks awesome, but aside from that?

It’s just crazy to me how many people keep supporting them entering the GaaS industry when pretty much none of those people like those games. Stating “they need to”, “it’s a good idea financially”. Since when the fuck do consumers care how much money giant corporations make? They are already the leading platform. How much more money do they need to make?!

Companies only change when they hear people complain and have dissatisfaction. Look at Xbox, people bitched forever and they finally listened and grew their first party immensely and will HOPEFULLY finally have a steady schedule of 1st party games from now on. 2023 was a good start and 2024 and beyond should sustain that.

People will spin anything.

The best one was when Sony announced PC ports years back (which has now become floodgates open with another port every 3 months).

The spin was Sony doing PC ports as a trojan horse strategy, where Horizon ZD and DG would make PC gamers buy a PS5 for the sequel. Since then, Sony has released tons of games on PC, the time gaps are getting shorter and oddly enough the sequel Forbidden West is coming in Q1 2024. Hmmm... maybe the new strategy is PC gamers converting to PS6 for the third game in the future? lol. And there isnt even a DG sequel to go after on PS5. lol

 

[MarkMe2525]

Some people are surely exposing themselves. The same folks that mocked people for latching onto a certain developers claim of “design decisions” are buying the spin hook, line, and sinker. Never good to see such a large investment wasted. I’m sure the real truth will come out eventually.

 

[Calverz]

I don't buy any of this horse-shit about it being a mutually exclusive choice between between being a single-player or GaaS studio. If Factions 2 blew up they could expand the studio to handle the live service content while the rest of the team transitioned to the next project, like dozens of other studios that struck multiplayer gold in the past few decades.

It was probably dog shit, even Bungie thought it was crap, and they threw this statement out to make people feel happy about their inability to do multiplayer.

The alternative is believing that they had a profitable multiplayer game ready to go, but were allowed to scrap years of work because money-hungry Sony didn't want to convert the entire studio to a live-service model. I smell incompetence-tinged bullshit

100% this post.

 

[Loxus]

Saw this on Twitter.

Ain't no way this game was this far along and they decided to cancel it.

Just release it and get back some of the revenue. No need to constantly update it.
All that development resources wasted by out right canceling it.

Or create a mini studio.
Rockstar keeps updating GTA Online and still managing to create probably the biggest game of all time.

 

[elcapitano]

Saw this on Twitter.

Ain't no way this game was this far along and they decided to cancel it.

Just release it and get back some of the revenue. No need to constantly update it.
All that development resources wasted by out right canceling it.

Or create a mini studio.
Rockstar keeps updating GTA Online and still managing to create probably the biggest game of all time.

This whole thing makes no sense.

Like no part of me believe the game is bad. Part 2s gameplay is great and we already saw they can make a good factions mode.

Cancelling it outright makes little to no sense. It's baffling.

Like why not package it with the Part 2 Remaster and call that game The Last of Us Part 2 Factions? Maybe they would have had to release the game a few months later and charge more but everyone would be happier for it.

The whole situation makes no sense for anyone.

Literally the only way to salvage this shit show now is for them to manage to release a New IP and TLOU3 with a multiplayer mode using the systems they developed in this cancelled game.

If they fail to do that they will have lost a lot of support and a hell of a lot of money.

So for me this gen they should now pivot plans and release a New IP that's a shorter game that they can get out in 2025 at the latest.

And then for end of Gen they simply must release Part 3 with a multiplayer mode. Including a multiplayer mode in Part 3 is a non negotiable since they failed to include it in either Part 2 SKU and failed to release the standalone game.

The situation is salvageable but this is the only way imo and they need to announce that this is the plan as soon as possible otherwise they will lose years of goodwill that they built up.

 

[The artful mincer]

Go look at the top played games on PlayStation every month. It's like 80% GAAS games. The PlayStation audience overwhelmingly play and prefer GAAS. I think it's certain bubbles online that still don't realize this.

Education is so important.

Men in Boxes!!!! As someone that finds your post always entertaining you need to shape up and post better.

Case in point this post above citation needed! You constantly do this say shit without the data back it up you just assume it's common knowledge. No Present the DATA!! EDUCATE!!

To back up myself I contend you are focusing too much on the tip of iceberg. The current top 10 on Steam NOW has 3 million concurrent players but overall Steam has 24 million concurrent players. I would imagine PlayStation is similar. I don't know the breakdown of GAAS vs single player games overall but I would think single player gamers spread themselves further over more games.

To back myself up again this survey suggests that 57% of gamers prefer single player over multiplayer.

Which is more popular single-player or multiplayer?

57% of gamers prefer single-player over multiplayer games, compared to 22% who prefer multiplayer games. While the overall preference for the single player

www.vintageisthenewold.com

Think my data is shit or problematic? Fine then tear it a new one but present your own data in return. Like you I like to think I'm open to having my mind changed but no wishy washy stuff. Hard cold facts.

Kudos your biggest fan The Artful Mincer.

 

[Eiknarf]

Men in Boxes!!!! As someone that finds your post always entertaining you need to shape up and post better.

Case in point this post above citation needed! You constantly do this say shit without the data back it up you just assume it's common knowledge. No Present the DATA!! EDUCATE!!

To back up myself I contend you are focusing too much on the tip of iceberg. The current top 10 on Steam NOW has 3 million concurrent players but overall Steam has 24 million concurrent players. I would imagine PlayStation is similar. I don't know the breakdown of GAAS vs single player games overall but I would think single player gamers spread themselves further over more games.

To back myself up again this survey suggests that 57% of gamers prefer single player over multiplayer.

Which is more popular single-player or multiplayer?

57% of gamers prefer single-player over multiplayer games, compared to 22% who prefer multiplayer games. While the overall preference for the single player

www.vintageisthenewold.com

Think my data is shit or problematic? Fine then tear it a new one but present your own data in return. Like you I like to think I'm open to having my mind changed but no wishy washy stuff. Hard cold facts.

Kudos your biggest fan The Artful Mincer.

Can facts be “hard cold”, or are they usually “cold hard”?

Like, ya can’t have “pillage and rape”, you can only have “rape and pillage”

 

[Topher]

I don't buy any of this horse-shit about it being a mutually exclusive choice between between being a single-player or GaaS studio. If Factions 2 blew up they could expand the studio to handle the live service content while the rest of the team transitioned to the next project, like dozens of other studios that struck multiplayer gold in the past few decades.

It was probably dog shit, even Bungie thought it was crap, and they threw this statement out to make people feel happy about their inability to do multiplayer.

The alternative is believing that they had a profitable multiplayer game ready to go, but were allowed to scrap years of work because money-hungry Sony didn't want to convert the entire studio to a live-service model. I smell incompetence-tinged bullshit

I really don't care what the reason is. Just as long as they get their focus back to single player games then they can spin whatever tale they want as to the reasons.

Having said that, I think they internally had a moment of clarity and realized this shit just was in their wheelhouse. I do think that if that was the reason though then they could have easily just said that. Would not be surprised if upper management PR execs wrote that press release.

Everyone bending over backwards to spin this as a positive is completely delusional.

It took them over 3 years to realize they needed to maintain a GaaS with studio resources?!

This press release is such a huge misdirection and spin and yet people are eating it up.

This is a huge blunder by ND and Sony. For some bizarre reason people keep giving Sony the benefit of the doubt with everything. When so far this entire generation they have done more negative things for the community than positive.

-Higher price on subscriptions
-Only 1 new IP in 3 years
-In less than a year pretty much abandoned a peripheral that cost $500
-Released cheaper to manufacture consoles and either raised or kept the prices the same
-Incredibly lackluster announced future games. Wolverine looks awesome, but aside from that?

It’s just crazy to me how many people keep supporting them entering the GaaS industry when pretty much none of those people like those games. Stating “they need to”, “it’s a good idea financially”. Since when the fuck do consumers care how much money giant corporations make? They are already the leading platform. How much more money do they need to make?!

Companies only change when they hear people complain and have dissatisfaction. Look at Xbox, people bitched forever and they finally listened and grew their first party immensely and will HOPEFULLY finally have a steady schedule of 1st party games from now on. 2023 was a good start and 2024 and beyond should sustain that.

Eh....not necessarily. This whole ordeal was indeed a huge blunder by ND and Sony. I've been ridiculing this Gaas misdirection for a while. Say what you will about the press release, but ultimately this is actually good news. Yeah, Sony and ND look silly right now, but that is just temporary. If/when they deliver another kick ass AAA single player game do you think anyone is going to say "well....I'm not buying this awesome game because I'm still butthurt about that press release". Nah....some diehard warriors will bring it up like they do, but it will pass and perhaps.....just maybe....we will get some damn games.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Saw this on Twitter.

Ain't no way this game was this far along and they decided to cancel it.

Just release it and get back some of the revenue. No need to constantly update it.
All that development resources wasted by out right canceling it.

Or create a mini studio.
Rockstar keeps updating GTA Online and still managing to create probably the biggest game of all time.

Holy shit, this looks like it was pretty damn far along. I can't believe it's just been killed like that :/

 

[Topher]

Holy shit, this looks like it was pretty damn far along. I can't believe it's just been killed like that :/

It's just a lobby screen. If it the rest of it sucked then who cares what the lobby screen looked like?

 

[Tarnished]

Good, the last thing we need is another live service game, especially if it means we stop getting great single player experiences from them.

 

[DenchDeckard]

It's just a lobby screen. If it the rest of it sucked then who cares what the lobby screen looked like?

I just cant believe that a last of us 2 playing multiplayer game didnt play well. I bet it did play well, but it didnt have a good way of locking in the gaas shite. Like what costumes are you going to have, what dances etc in a last of us 2 game.

I would put money it played very well, but sadly the shite state of Gaas games killed it before we could play it, because there wasn't a "Fortnite" way they could monetise it.

 

[Bartski]

I just cant believe that a last of us 2 playing multiplayer game didnt play well. I bet it did play well, but it didnt have a good way of locking in the gaas shite. Like what costumes are you going to have, what dances etc in a last of us 2 game.

I would put money it played very well, but sadly the shite state of Gaas games killed it before we could play it, because there wasn't a "Fortnite" way they could monetise it.

Every time a new shooter launches, I start a countdown until it becomes a clown show of brands and hideous skins

Stuffed full of collaborations and tie-in skins, shooters are getting harder to look at.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Topher]

I just cant believe that a last of us 2 playing multiplayer game didnt play well. I bet it did play well, but it didnt have a good way of locking in the gaas shite. Like what costumes are you going to have, what dances etc in a last of us 2 game.

I would put money it played very well, but sadly the shite state of Gaas games killed it before we could play it, because there wasn't a "Fortnite" way they could monetise it.

Would love to hear the inside story one day of what actually happened and why it was killed. Not going to lie. I'm glad it is dead. As others have said, should have just been an add-on to the single player like they have done in the past, and done well with it. But obviously they were looking at the big dollar monetization and that's where I'm guessing, like you, that it all went to shit.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Men in Boxes!!!! As someone that finds your post always entertaining you need to shape up and post better.

Case in point this post above citation needed! You constantly do this say shit without the data back it up you just assume it's common knowledge. No Present the DATA!! EDUCATE!!

To back up myself I contend you are focusing too much on the tip of iceberg. The current top 10 on Steam NOW has 3 million concurrent players but overall Steam has 24 million concurrent players. I would imagine PlayStation is similar. I don't know the breakdown of GAAS vs single player games overall but I would think single player gamers spread themselves further over more games.

To back myself up again this survey suggests that 57% of gamers prefer single player over multiplayer.

Which is more popular single-player or multiplayer?

57% of gamers prefer single-player over multiplayer games, compared to 22% who prefer multiplayer games. While the overall preference for the single player

www.vintageisthenewold.com

Think my data is shit or problematic? Fine then tear it a new one but present your own data in return. Like you I like to think I'm open to having my mind changed but no wishy washy stuff. Hard cold facts.

Kudos your biggest fan The Artful Mincer.

I will adress your "tip of the iceberg" comment eventually.

Here are some numbers for PlayStation. A company that most would agree is probably more single player centric than either XBox or PC...



The above data is from September but it always looks like this. Every month the majority of top games are multiplayer Live Service.

Above are numbers from PlayStation that show "add on content" and "network services" are significantly larger than full priced games.

Lastly, here's PlayStation showing us (again) that Live Service is a larger market than traditional single player, but they expect it to grow at an exponentially faster rate as well. PlayStation is essentially saying "The single player market is saturated", though some people here won't believe it with their own two eyes.

Your "tip of the iceberg" comment showed a degree of logic. For that, I thank you. It's possible that the 11th to the 500th most played PlayStation games are overwhelmingly single player.

However, don't you think PlayStation leadership would be looking at that if that's the case?

Intern: "Mr. Ryan, I printed out this stack of papers you wanted. This shows, in descending order, the 1,000 most played games on our platform this year."

Jim Ryan: "I'll just look at the first page. No need to look at pages 2 - 30."

That scenario doesn't seem likely. The people in charge of these companies aren't gamers, they're strategists. They don't care one iota about game types. They just care about effectiveness.

PlayStation doesn't work from surveys and polls. It works from what its players are actually playing + spending money on. "Watch what they do, not what they say."

 

[DenchDeckard]

Would love to hear the inside story one day of what actually happened and why it was killed. Not going to lie. I'm glad it is dead. As others have said, should have just been an add-on to the single player like they have done in the past, and done well with it. But obviously they were looking at the big dollar monetization and that's where I'm guessing, like you, that it all went to shit.

Completely agree with you 100%. It should have just been the multiplayer we saw footage of leak years ago. Someone must have looked at it and thought they could flesh it out....then years later and millions of dollars, they realised that no one is going to want to buy multiple pairs of walking boots.

What's annoying, is it will have played really well and could have just been an awesome multiplayer factions game. Instead some suits probably said it needs to be gaas and here we are.

Fingers crossed they can pull enough out of it to make some form of awesome multiplayer mode for LOUIII. Who knows. :/

 

[angrod14]

It was probably dog shit, even Bungie thought it was crap, and they threw this statement out to make people feel happy about their inability to do multiplayer.

Past experience is the best way to predict the future. All of ND's previous multiplayer efforts were well received. They've been doing MP since Uncharted 2, and many have cited Factions as the best MP game they've ever played. It's hard for me to assume Factions 2 was going to be shit. To my understanding, the Bungie negative review they received was suppossedly not about the quality of the game itself, but the imposibility to monetize it in to oblivion long-term.