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In the event that PS5 Pro does release in 2024 but there is no new Xbox Series console because there is already Series S & X
- Thread starter onQ123
- Start date
Bry0
Member
But it might silence the voices for a week or two. Day 1
JTCx
Member
Alex Bugaga was upset at the thought of a ps5 pro.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He now says "it's all about the games...." from a tech site, that analyzes and pushes performance deltas.
Narrative stays shifting, you see.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Also says one of the reasons games perform equally on PS5 and Series X is that since the player base is larger on the PS5 the devs just give that version the most love and not optimize for the Series X, MAYBE
MisterXDTV
Member
We are back to the TOOLS and forced parity with PS5 because Sony pays devs
MisterXDTV
Member
It's like a Ferrari dealer telling people that the point of a car is just to get to work every day
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yet there is no 60fps patch on the RDR remaster since the Xbox parity clause would have to have the BC RDR game patched for 60fps, and nobody is opening up that spaghetti
Matsuchezz
Member
I hope the PS5 PRO is released around the end of 2025. I will buy it day one.
It is funny how people is reluctant to accept a more powerful PS5, but they are A OK with the Series S and Series X dinamo. But in both cases the PS5 and PS5 PRO are part of a winning plan and better products.
As some people do I will move my current PS5 to my basement and the PS5 Pro for my living Room.
It is funny how people is reluctant to accept a more powerful PS5, but they are A OK with the Series S and Series X dinamo. But in both cases the PS5 and PS5 PRO are part of a winning plan and better products.
As some people do I will move my current PS5 to my basement and the PS5 Pro for my living Room.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Found the common denominator.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
But is a Xbox that's not really a Xbox still a Xbox?
Hint Xbox fight will be with Steam trying to win back the PC & with Apple & Google trying to get a place on Smartphones .
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
twilo99
Member
There is going to be offset this time around
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Interesting times, I for one look forward to a ps5 pro. But what MS might launch in response could be interesting. What if they launch something elite and expensive? Something actually more powerfull. Might be interesting to at least see vs a regular mid gen cycle upgrade. Or will it be a portable.......
skit_data
Member
While I agree that Pro consoles first and foremost are for existing owners I think they have some potential of reeling in new customers in a more indirect manner. If someone who is a previous PS5 owner buys a Pro, chance is that they sell their base console to someone who doesn't own a current gen console and unlike most of the sold consoles (that are sold at loss or small profit) that new owner of the console will be profitable from day 1.
Edit: Add the fact that a second hand console will be sold at a lower price than a new one and you could make the case that Pro consoles indirectly might allow more price sensitive customers to enter the eco system while still retaining the previous owner in said ecosystem.
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They already announced that they releasing the biggest leap ever from one generation to the next. They are trying to get that out in the next year or so I knew they was trying to abandon Series X/S when they started talking about the hot they were taking on each console. So most likely they will be designing their own chip or using someone else who needs the contact & getting a better price or selling the device at a higher price
DevilHunterX0
Member
Coming soon: Xbox Series whY and Xbox SerieZ
Lagspike_exe
Member
Pure marketing hype. We know broadly what type of leap is available in 2025-2026 based on road maps and node jumps. In 2026, the absolute maximum they can get is 3nm and a couple more RDNA itterations (likely RDNA5 being the end solution). Calling this the "largest" generation leap is laughable compared to Xbox OG -> 360. The only way this could be considered a large leap is if they only considered RTRT performance. They may also resort to expanding silicon size and / or allowing for higher TDP, but the leap will be very limited in any scenario.
midnightAI
Member
I just watched the accompanying video for this, big mistake
PaintTinJr
Member
I think you have to remember that a lot of this is going to be marketing double speak.
Even just doing a Series X with Dual issue update as a Series Z would add 12TF/S in theory, which is bigger in absolute terms - not relative scale terms - to any other Xbox upgrade.
Equally if they compare an Xbox Series Z to an S, that is 4TF/s theoretical vs 24TF/s as a x6 multiplier, which might still be bigger than the jump from X1 to X1X, or 360 to X1, but unlikely more in scale than the OG to 360, but probably no far off.
bitbydeath
Member
It’s the “largest technological leap” because they’re moving to arm and cloud.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
A huge problem for MS is that whatever step they take tech-wise they'll need to factor in costs for implementing a matching level of power for the GP back-end on day #1 also.
With cloud stuff becoming increasingly key to the business model its adding a huge extra amount of logistical complexity to rolling out a new product-line. I'd expect lead-times on manufacture needing to be extended in order to support this because those server blades are not going to be the same as retail units, and they are going to need both.
With cloud stuff becoming increasingly key to the business model its adding a huge extra amount of logistical complexity to rolling out a new product-line. I'd expect lead-times on manufacture needing to be extended in order to support this because those server blades are not going to be the same as retail units, and they are going to need both.
Cliffs notes on the video?
Maybe but I don't think this will be a traditional console so there is a big chance they could be going for the high-end gaming market
alucard0712_rus
Gold Member
Series S was already pain in the S
Mibu no ookami
Member
I find it really sad that anyone can have a platform giving such poor analysis.
It isn't just the cost of developing, manufacturing, and distributing a Pro console, there's the cost of not doing it. They're about to create a narrative for MULTIPLE years that PlayStation is the best place to play console games. That's not going to be an easy thing to prevent adjudication simply by releasing a new console.
The idea that only existing consumers will buy a Pro simply isn't true and even if 60% of your consumers are pre-existing, that's still 40% new consumers. Then you add the realization that the existing consumers are almost certainly going to flood the market with used consoles, these are used consoles you can sell to new consumers without having to more aggressively cut prices.
If the PS5 Pro is 600 dollars and is sold at cost compared to a PS5 that is 500 dollars and sold at a 50 dollar cost, would rather sell 1 new PS5 or a PS5 Pro for 600 dollars (again no cost) and now a used PS5 for say 350 (that sony isn't involved in financially at all). That's 2 consumers for Sony at no cost, vs 2 consumers at the cost of 50 dollars, assuming the new consumer is willing to buy a brand new ps5 at full price.
What does selling (the market not sony) used hardware do for Sony? It increases software sales and it increases mindshare.
So going back to Microsoft, it's clear that by not releasing a pro unit, you're going to eschew mindshare and market share to Sony and while your priority might be selling subscriptions, you're not going to do that without selling hardware. So unless Microsoft is planning on getting regulators to force Sony to put GamePass and the Xbox store on PlayStation, I don't see skipping a pro console (even one that would not be successful or profitable) as a smart decision for Microsoft.
Edit: You're also not getting 10 games on GamePass for 100 million dollars, unless they're tiny AA games.
Edit Edit:
skit_data
already broke this down earlier this morning
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I think he is on the right track with a couple of things he said here
And yeah Xbox memos have likely gone out to keep reminding people X2 is coming fairly soon and not in 2028
I 100% believe Xbox is still on track to double down on console type hardware next gen
Mibu no ookami
Member
Even if they release new hardware there is no guarantee that after abdicating significant mindshare/market share that anyone will buy it when it is released.
Sony is in a perfect position to wait Microsoft out. The only reason the 360 was so successful was because of the design of the PS3, which lead to it being more expensive and harder to develop for.
Microsoft is in the most unenviable position you can be in right now.
Randall365
Member
PS5 S v Xbox S
PS5 P v Xbox X
If Sony match their price points - domination beckons.
Go!!!
PS5 P v Xbox X
If Sony match their price points - domination beckons.
Go!!!
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
By no means am I advocating this is going to end well for MS and its likely their hardware business is in serious trouble.
Just a couple of the things he said in the video aligns very well with things I have heard months ago from people who would actually know these things
Mibu no ookami
Member
I don't plan on giving him any views, but would be interested in what you agreed with him on.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I hate that I gave him a click
Going through the Brad Sams video now on if Xbox needs a pro console and so far think he has missed the mark entirely on what a pro console is designed to do, keep people in their ecosystem
Mibu no ookami
Member
I don't think people understand how much a shift 5-10 million units is in either direction is and the impact that has on developers and publishers not even wanting to support another xbox from concerns of long term profitability.
If the XBS only sells 35 million units, if I'm a publisher, I'm expecting the next Xbox to only sell 25-30 million units and that might not be enough to warrant putting games on, especially if these are core gamepass subscribers.
Keep in mind that some PC games don't get ported to PS5 even though the PS5 is slated to sell 100+ million units.
I think you'll still get your Maddens and 2K games, but games like Persona, Dragon's Dogma, Cyberpunk... you might be hard pressed to port over... That porting time could be better utilized to refine the game on PC/PS5/6.
The other thing to consider is that trying to make a game multiplatform next gen, do you really want to be bogged down by the XSS?
I have to say, Microsoft has made what has turned out to be some seriously fatal errors that were lauded by a lot of gamers and the media at first.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Microsoft wants to do anything BUT making great games. Making great games is too hard for them. Easier to just make a new PC console hybrid, restart the gen early, make handheld, anything. Even if any of the other choices fixes exactly nothing that people fault Xbox for.
Is Xbox Division stupid? Or perhaps it is even worse; perhaps Xbox know they don't have it in them to make the great games they kept saying is coming.
If they promised great games, year after year, for basically ten years, and still not delivered them, I am not sure the ones in charge actually knew how. And at this point those in charge should have fallen on their sword for failing.
Physiognomonics
Member
They will do the same thing they did with X1X to counter PS4 Pro. So predictable. If this time they completely ditch Series X gen and allow exclusive games (to please core xbox fans) then it's going to be worse for their global strategy, trying to beat Playstation.
What they need to do is what they did with X360: try to innovate and not react to the competition trying to copy what works! But unfortunately like what happened with X1X they have less than 2 years to design, produce and market their next console. They clearly won't innovate and they'll fail, again.
BTW vague and super general specs put into a powerpoint is not innovating and thoughtful design. It's amateurish level of design. When PS5 Pro will release, Cerny (a genius level hardware / software designer) and his teams will have worked at that machine and SKD for 4 whole years fulltime and uninterrupted!
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Unknown?
Member
I don't think it's wise though. Too soon after covid and likely won't be a big leap over PS5 Pro with diminishing returns. We still haven't seen this gen fully utilized.
PaintTinJr
Member
Maybe they could get around that issue by just exiting the home console space and entering the handheld market like the Steamdeck with their next console. Emulating ARM handhelds on the backend would be possible with the existing Series X blades, and as they've never been in the handheld market drop a Series S level Steamdeck on the market would still let them claim it was the biggest technological jump - compared to the Switch.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I think it will be a considerable leap over the PS5 Pro especially in terms of CPU and AI enhancements
This is me going off script here nothing I say here has been talked about to me personally
The problem for the main console as I see it will be pricing and it has to be super easy for devs to take advantage of its power because install base will likely be so small what devs (outside of true first party) would waste resources on an X2 version
I will add I think we are getting super close to a real leaker getting real info
Not a blowout type of leak just a drip
Mibu no ookami
Member
AI might be the big gamble of the next generation to the point that not having the CPU architecture needed for enhanced AI might be seen as the equivalent of the saturn not really being built for 3D or the N64 not having a disc drive.
In trying to build AI for NPC characters that truly feel alive, some game may become the next GTA3 and it might be exclusive to the hardware that can accomplish it.
There's a lot of risk in jumping into the market too early. Maybe more so now than ever.
Physiognomonics
Member
The same script they did with Scorpio just after PS4 Pro leak. They are going to focus on brute force specs: XX% more this, XX% more that. And they will fail, again.
Specifically here consoles games don't need 2x better CPU (this new CPU won't be properly used by 99% games in dev), and xx% better AI hardware won't be enough if they don't have great AI upscaling tools! Those AI upscaling tools (Microsoft own PSSR / DLSS) will need years of development to be fully mature and efficient and MS have a very bad record here. This is their biggest problem in this console war, tools, not hardware. They need to hire better people to design better APIs for consoles, they don't need more powerful hardware.
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rm082e
Member
I think the comment Sarah Bond made about "biggest leap in any generation" is probably over the Series S, not the X. The cost of chips is not coming down like it has in the past, so what any company could put into a $500-ish console is pretty limited. I also don't see them going for a $700 box to try and appeal to the whales. They want to sell more units, not less.
Unknown?
Member
Yes the technical leap would be big if it was considerably more expensive. Even so the differences won't show much like back in the day.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Thats where the dockable Series S (whatever they call it) will come in, to target the masses
PaintTinJr
Member
You could be right, but brawnier CPUs and more AI TOPS/TFLOPS without PlayStation/Nintendo-esq to the mental software; especially on weaker general purpose ARM isn't going to count for anything without them doing a paradigm shift, which Xbox, or Microsoft for that matter, has never successfully pioneered.
On the CPU side, a higher clock eats thermal and power headroom and memory bandwidth, and if going with larger L2 or L3 cache/s that eats up chip area and cost and memory bandwidth. As others have mentioned the current CPUs for to-the-metal code on consoles are not the bottleneck, particularly the PlayStation with the IO complex, and probably won't need much improvement beyond automatic IPC gen improvements even on the PS6, contrary to what DF's new script is because most of the CPU tasks can and are being accelerated faster on the GPU, now on PlayStation, and this even more so on the AMD side where their philosophy is minimalist custom ASIC enhancement of a general purpose CU.
IMO, it isn't even like the Xbox can get a huge win with memory bandwidth because IMO ARM is starved at the caches more than the northbridge. If they were able to produce hardware with the same margins and efficiencies as PlayStation then making £1000 console 2 years early could possibly work like the 360 again, but the increase in price isn't buying them anywhere close to the same performance per dollar that PlayStation gets.