Support NeoGAF

[MrTroubleMaker]

 

[Fredrik]

Slam dunk.
Too bad I already built my PC.

 

[DenchDeckard]

This thing is a beast. It's deffo hot and heavy but man! GG Intel

Cant decide what memory to get to go with this thing. My mobo is Z690 maximus Hero kinda tempted to get 7200MHz cas 34 but maybe 6600Mhz cas 32 would be better?

 

[nkarafo]

Jesus Christ those temps and consumption, i'll just stick with my current i5 4670.

The more time passes the less value i see from building a new PC. Every new CPU gen is worse then the one before. Where's the efficiency?

 

[bbeach123]

Jesus Christ those temps and consumption, i'll just stick with my current i5 4670.

The more time passes the less value i see from building a new PC. Every new CPU gen is worse then the one before. Where's the efficiency?

You can limit them to 125w and got like 90% production(all core render/benchmark) perfomance and 98% gaming perfomance .

 

[nkarafo]

You can limit them to 125w and got like 90% production(all core render/benchmark) perfomance and 98% gaming perfomance .

It's still too much and i don't like the idea of manually handicapping the CPU just so it doesn't melt the motherboard or waste everything i have on the power bill.

All i want is a CPU with similar power draw with the one i have and get whatever performance gains from 10 years of evolution in tech and efficiency.

 

[GymWolf]

these are the cons of the 13600k in the techpowerup review, anything that i need to worry about? i mean except the obvious high temp\power usage.

• High power usage
• High cooling requirements / high temperatures (for an i5)
• Only PCIe x8 graphics when Gen 5 M.2 slot in-use
• No Turbo Boost 3.0
• Some workloads get scheduled onto wrong cores
• CPU cooler not included
• No support for AVX512

Do i need to put a liquid cooler on this thing even if i don't overclock shit? or is a big noctua with a fan enough?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

It's still too much and i don't like the idea of manually handicapping the CPU just so it doesn't melt the motherboard or waste everything i have on the power bill.

All i want is a CPU with similar power draw with the one i have and get whatever performance gains from 10 years of evolution in tech and efficiency.

a 136k would absolutely crush that 4670 of yours, I know, I had one too.
The upcoming 134k will probably draw less power than the 4670 and also just walk all over it in performance.

 

[thuGG_pl]

these are the cons of the 13600k in the techpowerup review, anything that i need to worry about? i mean except the obvious high temp\power usage.

• High power usage
• High cooling requirements / high temperatures (for an i5)
• Only PCIe x8 graphics when Gen 5 M.2 slot in-use
• No Turbo Boost 3.0
• Some workloads get scheduled onto wrong cores
• CPU cooler not included
• No support for AVX512

Do i need to put a liquid cooler on this thing even if i don't overclock shit? or is a big noctua with a fan enough?

If you read throught their review you'll see that they used Noctua NH-U14S air cooler. So a good cooler, but not the top. Still it was good in gaming, and not too bad in stress test. So I don't think you need water.

 

[A.Romero]

If you read throught their review you'll see that they used Noctua NH-U14S air cooler. So a good cooler, but not the top. Still it was good in gaming, and not too bad in stress test. So I don't think you need water.

Like some of you I'm still on a 8600K (w/o OC, got a crappy chip) and it seems it's time to upgrade. I wish I could get something more power efficient but I'm noticing CPU bottleneck (3070) in some games, specially BF2042 with 128 players.

I'll wait for the 5000 series GPU or next gen RDNA but RAM, CPU and Mobo are getting an upgrade early next year. Hyped!

 

[Tarin02543]

I was eyeing to buy a raptor lake motherboard and a cheap alderlake cpu in the next few months but I think I'll hold out for meteor lake (another year).

rumor is it that meteor lake motherboards will support up to lunar lake (2nm 2026).

 

[Black_Stride]

these are the cons of the 13600k in the techpowerup review, anything that i need to worry about? i mean except the obvious high temp\power usage.

• High power usage
• High cooling requirements / high temperatures (for an i5)
• Only PCIe x8 graphics when Gen 5 M.2 slot in-use
• No Turbo Boost 3.0
• Some workloads get scheduled onto wrong cores
• CPU cooler not included
• No support for AVX512

Do i need to put a liquid cooler on this thing even if i don't overclock shit? or is a big noctua with a fan enough?

~70° in gaming.
~90° when rendering.

You def dont need any water.
You could get away with using a ~$50 dual or thick tower cooler and be totally fine.
If you are getting a Noctua then you are absolutely sorted.

The Windows 11 scheduler should be better at managing the P and e cores, though I doubt thats actually a thing to worry about.
Lack of AVX512 is a non issue, the 13th gen are still the fastest emulation chips on the market.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'll um keep using my 5800X3D rather than pay out the ass for these new motherboards and DDR5. Thanks but no thanks, Intel and AMD.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Anyone have thoughts on pairing a 13600K with a DDR4 motherboard? It doesn’t look like there’s much to gain from DDR5. At least not at the moment. Plus I’d save a few bucks on a motherboard and by using my existing RAM.

 

[thuGG_pl]

Anyone have thoughts on pairing a 13600K with a DDR4 motherboard? It doesn’t look like there’s much to gain from DDR5. At least not at the moment. Plus I’d save a few bucks on a motherboard and by using my existing RAM.

Not 13600, but 13900 here, but he did DDR4 and DDR5, personally DDR5 advantage is somehow noticable:


Also here you can see DDR5 5200 vs 6800 with 13600k:

Test procesorów Intel Core i5-13600K vs AMD Ryzen 5 7600X - Więcej rdzeni i świetna wydajność! Porównanie w grach i programach | PurePC.pl

Test procesorów Intel Core i5-13600K vs AMD Ryzen 5 7600X - Więcej rdzeni i świetna wydajność! Porównanie w grach i programach (strona 64) Recenzja i test procesorów Intel Core i5-13600K vs AMD Ryzen 5 7600X. Nowy Intel jest szybszy niż oczekiwałeś! Porównanie w grach i programach

www.purepc.pl

 

[GymWolf]

~70° in gaming.
~90° when rendering.

You def dont need any water.
You could get away with using a ~$50 dual or thick tower cooler and be totally fine.
If you are getting a Noctua then you are absolutely sorted.

The Windows 11 scheduler should be better at managing the P and e cores, though I doubt thats actually a thing to worry about.
Lack of AVX512 is a non issue, the 13th gen are still the fastest emulation chips on the market.

70 in gaming is just 5 degrees more than my 8600k...

How is that hot in any way, shape or form?

You can't even cook an egg at 70°.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

70 in gaming is just 5 degrees more than my 8600k...

How is that hot in any way, shape or form?

It's not but YouTube videos won't click themselves. #DRAMA

 

[Insane Metal]

While we highlighted in our AMD Ryzen 9 7950X processor review, which at the time of publishing was the clear leader in single-core performance, it seems as though Intel's Raptor Lake is biting at the heels of the new Zen 4-core. In some instances, it's actually ahead, but stiff competition from elsewhere is always good as competition creates innovation.

With Raptor Lake being more of a transitional and enhanced core design that Intel's worked with before (Alder Lake), it remains to be seen what the future of 2023 holds for Intel's advancement in IPC and single-threaded performance. Right now, however SPEC paints a picture where it's pretty much neck and neck between Raptor Cove and Zen 4.

Anandtech regarding single threaded SPEC2017.

 

[Black_Stride]

Anyone have thoughts on pairing a 13600K with a DDR4 motherboard? It doesn’t look like there’s much to gain from DDR5. At least not at the moment. Plus I’d save a few bucks on a motherboard and by using my existing RAM.

Itll still be a very very solid performer.

Look at MSI motherboards, the DDR4 vs DDR5 variants arent that different in price, but yeah you would need new RAM.
You could look at it as an investment for NovaLake.....but realistically just keep using your current RAM, assuming its relatively quick.
Its seems RPL actually likes pretty fast RAM.

70 in gaming is just 5 degrees more than my 8600k...

How is that hot in any way, shape or form?

Its the usual fearmongering that happens with Intel.
People will list how hot the CPU gets when being stressed to its absolute limits, as if that actually a use case.
Even the powerdraw is greatly exaggerated.

Limiting the 13900K to 88Ws will still have it outperform a 12900KS.
So if you are rally concerned about power draw you can powerlimit these CPUs and still get amazing performance.

Y

 

[Insane Metal]

If you don't care about it being power hungry, it's still better for gaming than AMD. It's also a good bunch cheaper than the 7950X.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

LMAO the 5800X3D looks SUPER strong on this one. If you're sitting on AM4 and you haven't just dropped a 5800X3D as your gaming focused in-place upgrade for the next 2-3 years then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Black_Stride]

If you don't care about it being power hungry, it's still better for gaming than AMD. It's also a good bunch cheaper than the 7950X.

For a more gaming centric build just get the 136K.
Even if you multitask with streaming or whatever the e cores handle that perfectly.

For gaming you are like between 0 and 5 fps off a 139K.....for much less outright, less on a cooling solution and less powerdraw.
Though realistically you could powerlimit either 136K or 139K and still be eating every other CPU for breakfast.

 

[Celcius]

I wish more people were covering the 13700k. If I was upgrading I’d go for that one.

 

[thuGG_pl]

I wish more people were covering the 13700k. If I was upgrading I’d go for that one.

Looks like most reviewers got 13900 and 13600 first. We need to wait a bit for 13700.

 

[Pagusas]

hmm. Thats better performance than I expected out of Raptor Lake. Sitting on my desk is an unopened 7950x. Debating if I should return it and grab a 13900... But I only got the 7950 to transition to AM5 and DDR5, so maybe I'll stay and swap it out for a 7950 3D next year (if rumors of them expanding the 3d lineup are true). I play games at 4k so not sure I'd see any real difference there.

 

[Chiggs]

So I've gone through a number of the reviews--yes, I realize this is a gaming forum--and the 7950X tends to trade blows (and land more of them) with productivity and creativity applications. That, coupled with the ridiculous power draw of the 13900K, and the end of life platform it's coupled with, makes this a big "WHY?" for me.

hmm. Thats better performance than I expected out of Raptor Lake. Sitting on my desk is an unopened 7950x. Debating if I should return it and grab a 13900... But I only got the 7950 to transition to AM5 and DDR5, so maybe I'll stay and swap it out for a 7950 3D next year (if rumors of them expanding the 3d lineup are true). I play games at 4k so not sure I'd see any real difference there.

I sure as fuck wouldn't (and won't, since I also have a 7950X rig that I'm building this weekend):

• AM5 is a platform that actually has a future.
• See my post above.

 

[Celcius]

ASRock Sonic the Hedgehog motherboard: https://www.techpowerup.com/300088/...t-likely-limited-edition-for-the-asian-market

Spoiler

 

[Black_Stride]

I wish more people were covering the 13700k. If I was upgrading I’d go for that one.

Intel only sends out 136K and 139K to press cuz they are the processors that sell the most....and are actually interesting.
The 137K kinda sits in no mans land....it isnt 100+ dollars better than the 136K and doesnt really have any compelling use case over the 136K.
In gaming its at best like 5fps faster than a 136K but more likely will match it exactly.
And if you are heavily in multithreaded workloads, chances are the 139K will pay for itself in a few months of whatever work you do.
So the 137K is just kinda there and doesnt justify itself being 100+ dollars more expensive than the 136K.

So I've gone through a number of the reviews--yes, I realize this is a gaming forum--and the 7950X tends to trade blows (and land more of them) with productivity and creativity applications. That, coupled with the ridiculous power draw of the 13900K, and the end of life platform it's coupled with, makes this a big "WHY?" for me.



I sure as fuck wouldn't (and won't, since I also have a 7950X rig that I'm building this weekend):

• AM5 is a platform that actually has a future.
• See my post above.

The 7950X is 700 dollars and you have to buy a new motherboard and RAM, specifically DDR5 RAM.
The 139K is ~600 dollars and you can buy/use a Z690 motherboard and DDR4 RAM.

Is the 7950X 100 dollars better than the 139K....definitely not in gaming, and not in productivity.
Does jumping on DDR5 now, make sense.
AM5 motherboards cost more than their feature set.
A 139K will be more than sufficient till NovaLake at which point AM5 will also be EoL so both AMD and Intel will be moving to a new socket, so the socket lifespan argument falls flat.

The real question is why would anyone buy a 7950X?

 

[newtypepilot]

wow with a 13900k and a 4090, you can provide heat for the whole neighbourhood LOL

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Intel only sends out 136K and 139K to press cuz they are the processors that sell the most....and are actually interesting.
The 137K kinda sits in no mans land....it isnt 100+ dollars better than the 136K and doesnt really have any compelling use case over the 136K.
In gaming its at best like 5fps faster than a 136K but more likely will match it exactly.
And if you are heavily in multithreaded workloads, chances are the 139K will pay for itself in a few months of whatever work you do.
So the 137K is just kinda there and doesnt justify itself being 100+ dollars more expensive than the 136K.


The 7950X is 700 dollars and you have to buy a new motherboard and RAM, specifically DDR5 RAM.
The 139K is ~600 dollars and you can buy/use a Z690 motherboard and DDR4 RAM.

Is the 7950X 100 dollars better than the 139K....definitely not in gaming, and not in productivity.
Does jumping on DDR5 now, make sense.
AM5 motherboards cost more than their feature set.
A 139K will be more than sufficient till NovaLake at which point AM5 will also be EoL so both AMD and Intel will be moving to a new socket, so the socket lifespan argument falls flat.

The real question is why would anyone buy a 7950X?

The real, real question is why would anyone buy into Zen 4 or Raptor Lake instead of dropping a 5800X3D in as an in-place upgrade to their existing AM4 platform-based machine requiring no investment in motherboard or memory?

Obviously, if you aren't on AM4 and looking to upgrade, then it's different. Then I would say, wait for the 3D versions of Zen 4, they will be out early next year and should be fucking amazing if the sole representative of 3D version Zen 3 (5800X3D) is any indication of how that will go.

The Raptor Lake line is a dead end, Intel is introducing a new socket with the next Meteor Lake generation so investing in a motherboard and also coughing up for DDR5 memory on the Intel side is a terrible idea. The current Zen 4 are overpriced, but the value proposition will improve once the the 3D versions become available early next year on the AMD side.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

It is time I retire my old 6700k.

I just upgraded from an i7-6700k to a i7-12700k, still using my 1080 ti. The FPS difference, especially in open-world games, was significant. I can actually play Witcher 3 at 4K/60FPS now, and Kingdom Come doesn't run like complete dog shit in Rattay anymore.

 

[hlm666]

It's still too much and i don't like the idea of manually handicapping the CPU just so it doesn't melt the motherboard or waste everything i have on the power bill.

All i want is a CPU with similar power draw with the one i have and get whatever performance gains from 10 years of evolution in tech and efficiency.

wouldn't getting like the 65 watt i5 13500 achieve what you want? Your current cpu is like 84 watt and half the core count.

 

[LordCBH]

I just upgraded from an i7-6700k to a i7-12700k, still using my 1080 ti. The FPS difference, especially in open-world games, was significant. I can actually play Witcher 3 at 4K/60FPS now, and Kingdom Come doesn't run like complete dog shit in Rattay anymore.

Oh that makes me excited to upgrade. My 2080 Super is great, but I definitely feel that my 6700k is holding me back in stuff like CP2077 and other titles.

 

[crazepharmacist]

So when can we expect AMD’s 3D V-cache version of Zen 4 to release to counter this?

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Oh that makes me excited to upgrade. My 2080 Super is great, but I definitely feel that my 6700k is holding me back in stuff like CP2077 and other titles.

Yeah, I got a huge frame rate boost in Cyberpunk, too.

 

[Celcius]

So when can we expect AMD’s 3D V-cache version of Zen 4 to release to counter this?

January at the soonest as far as announcements but that’s just a guess

 

[Leonidas]

The real, real question is why would anyone buy into Zen 4 or Raptor Lake instead of dropping a 5800X3D in as an in-place upgrade to their existing AM4 platform-based machine requiring no investment in motherboard or memory?

Obviously, if you aren't on AM4 and looking to upgrade, then it's different. Then I would say, wait for the 3D versions of Zen 4, they will be out early next year and should be fucking amazing if the sole representative of 3D version Zen 3 (5800X3D) is any indication of how that will go.

The Raptor Lake line is a dead end, Intel is introducing a new socket with the next Meteor Lake generation so investing in a motherboard and also coughing up for DDR5 memory on the Intel side is a terrible idea. The current Zen 4 are overpriced, but the value proposition will improve once the the 3D versions become available early next year on the AMD side.

DDR4 works on Raptor Lake.

I sold my AM4 platform (CPU + MOBO) and kept the DDR4 and upgraded to a Z690 board and will get a 13600K. The upgrade cost for me is less than it would have been if I sold my old CPU and upgraded to 5800X3D. Not only that but I was upgraded to PCIe4 and PCIe5 slots on my motherboard (my AM4 board only supported PCIe3). An overclocked 13600K is probably faster than the 5800X3D in games too and absolutely destroys it in multi-threading.

Totally a worthwhile upgrade in my situation.

I had an AM4 board for around 4 years. I'm never doing that again. It was a very outdated board.

 

[Barakov]

 

[lukilladog]

 

[Chiggs]

The real question is why would anyone buy a 7950X?

You answered it yourself: Because it's on a platform that will be supported thru 2025 + V-cache variants.

Here are a couple of others:

• Ridiculous power draw.
  • As Paul's Hardware pointed out, if you level the playing field with power draw, Intel doesn't even have a performance lead at all.
• Peak temps of 100 degrees Celsius.

And I love how DDR4 compatibility is the big talking point for Intel fans suddenly, but I guess insane power draw doesn't factor into the equation at all, even though some folks could actually need a new PSU?

If you're buying a 13900, then you're doing it because you're upgrading from Alder Lake. Otherwise, it's not exactly the most prudent decision.

 

[Black_Stride]

The real, real question is why would anyone buy into Zen 4 or Raptor Lake instead of dropping a 5800X3D in as an in-place upgrade to their existing AM4 platform-based machine requiring no investment in motherboard or memory?

Obviously, if you aren't on AM4 and looking to upgrade, then it's different. Then I would say, wait for the 3D versions of Zen 4, they will be out early next year and should be fucking amazing if the sole representative of 3D version Zen 3 (5800X3D) is any indication of how that will go.

The Raptor Lake line is a dead end, Intel is introducing a new socket with the next Meteor Lake generation so investing in a motherboard and also coughing up for DDR5 memory on the Intel side is a terrible idea. The current Zen 4 are overpriced, but the value proposition will improve once the the 3D versions become available early next year on the AMD side.

Not on AM4 so the X3D doesnt make sense for me.
It also loses at basically everything to the 136K.

Socket EoL isnt an issue unless you are someone who upgrades their CPU every year or something.
MeteorLake - 2023
ArrowLake - 2024
LunarLake - 2025
NovaLake - 2026 - Probably first moment you should even be thinking about upgrading your CPU again......AM5 will also be EoL...soo same shit.

You answered it yourself: Because it's on a platform that will be supported thru 2025 + V-cache variants.

Here are a couple of others:

• Ridiculous power draw.
  • As Paul's Hardware pointed out, if you level the playing field with power draw, Intel doesn't even have a performance lead at all.
• Peak temps of 100 degrees Celsius.

And I love how DDR4 compatibility is the big talking point for Intel fans suddenly, but I guess insane power draw doesn't factor into the equation at all, even though some folks could actually need a new PSU?

If you're buying a 13900, then you're doing it because you're upgrading from Alder Lake. Otherwise, it's not exactly the most prudent decision.

Socket EoL is only an issue if you are someone who upgrades CPUs often, like every year or two(at which point costs probably dont matter)....otherwise AM5 will be EoL about the same time RPL users would even be thinking of upgrading CPUs.

Why would PowerDraw or Temperatures be something to worry about in a 13900K system?
If its a workstation then it pays for itself.
If its a max everything gaming rig, then its running at 70 - 80°, so pretty much just like a 7950X.

 

[Shh]

I've always wanted to try a 2000 watt power supply, I guess. Been looking to do a new water-cooled build though, in all seriousness. It's been a while. That power draw is seriously bananas though.

 

[adamosmaki]

Not on AM4 so the X3D doesnt make sense for me.
It also loses at basically everything to the 136K.

Socket EoL isnt an issue unless you are someone who upgrades their CPU every year or something.
MeteorLake - 2023
ArrowLake - 2024
LunarLake - 2025
NovaLake - 2026 - Probably first moment you should even be thinking about upgrading your CPU again......AM5 will also be EoL...soo same shit.

Socket EoL is only an issue if you are someone who upgrades CPUs often, like every year or two(at which point costs probably dont matter)....otherwise AM5 will be EoL about the same time RPL users would even be thinking of upgrading CPUs.

Why would PowerDraw or Temperatures be something to worry about in a 13900K system?
If its a workstation then it pays for itself.
If its a max everything gaming rig, then its running at 70 - 80°, so pretty much just like a 7950

If the platform is supported for 4-5 years then it's a big deal for alot of people. I went from a ryzen 1600 to a 5600 with gaming performance increase at some titles aproaching 2x and that while staying on the same b350 motherboard instead of spending 130-140 and need to rebuild my PC again. And the amazing thing is in a couple of years where used 5800x3d or 5900x are dirt cheap i can drop one off those and get by a few more years on the same platform.
So how exactly is platform longevity not a plus for a lot of people ?

 

[b0uncyfr0]

Damn, I was convinced on the 7600x but now I'm not so sure. That 13600k is looking mighty fine.

EOL is a bitch though. I'm still running on my 3770k, so yeah - I'm very stingy. The 7600x looks like it needs to drop another 30-40 bucks. That'd help with the AM5 board prices

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Has anyone done 12700k - 13700k comparisons?

 

[skneogaf]

Whatever you do, don't watch linus video as uts full of mistakes again.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

It's crazy to me that Intel is a legit better value right now than AMD for the top of the line. Z690 and likely 790 motherboards are much cheaper than the X670 mobos AND can still use DDR4 which is pretty legit savings.

The sad thing is that Intel managed to accidentally get better value, by AMD going overpriced.

The market will adjust soon enough.

 

[Celcius]

I usually buy the Asus Rog Hero boards but I look at the latest ones and I see this:

ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Hero (WiFi 6E) LGA 1700 (Intel 13th&12th Gen) ATX Gaming Motherboard (PCIe 5.0, DDR5, 20+1 Power Stages, 2.5Gb LAN, Bluetooth V5.2, 5x M.2/NVMe SSD, 2x Thunderbolt 4) - Newegg.com

Buy ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Hero (WiFi 6E) LGA 1700 (Intel 13th&12th Gen) ATX Gaming Motherboard (PCIe 5.0, DDR5, 20+1 Power Stages, 2.5Gb LAN, Bluetooth V5.2, 5x M.2/NVMe SSD, 2x Thunderbolt 4, Bundle with PCIe 5.0 Hyper M.2 Card) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know...

www.newegg.com

Nowadays the motherboard costs as much or more than your cpu. Why have mobos gotten so expensive?

 

[DynamiteToadie]

I have a 8700k and a 3090. I want both the 4090 and one of these new processors, but I can only upgrade one in the next year and a half or so. What do you all think is my best bet? I pretty much only game at 4k so will a new processor really benefit me THAT much, or as much as a 4090?

 

[cartman414]

And I love how DDR4 compatibility is the big talking point for Intel fans suddenly, but I guess insane power draw doesn't factor into the equation at all, even though some folks could actually need a new PSU?

Because it's about the more mature, commonly available standard, which DDR4 is at this moment? Let's not confuse things.