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[SantaC]

Big blow if true

Insider-Gerüchte: Intel streicht 10-nm-Pläne für den Desktop komplett - Hardwareluxx

Insider-Gerüchte: Intel streicht 10-nm-Pläne für den Desktop.

www.hardwareluxx.de

The most important part of the information: The off for all manufactured in 10 nm desktop processors from Intel. Instead, Intel is focusing entirely on 7 nm manufacturing in this segment. However, more than two years will pass before that happens.

 

[CJY]

They should skip 7nm too, and go straight for 1nm in 2035.

 

[dirthead]

If true, looks like it's Anthon64 2.0 time.

Not that it matters much. High end PC gaming is such a small market that this won't even put a dent in them. Marketing can compensate for the rest.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

AMD Rome procs are 7nm and have basically a 18-24 month window here where the market is completely theirs. I have so many customers who are flipping data center workloads to Rome, for basically 4x the performance for 1/2 the cost of cascade lake. Intel got caught with their pants down.

 

[Raphael]

So what does that mean in terms of the market impact - prices, AMD position?
Does that mean Intel expexts next ryzens to be that good that its better to just refocus for the next step of their plans?

 

[dirthead]

AMD Rome procs are 7nm and have basically a 18-24 month window here where the market is completely theirs. I have so many customers who are flipping data center workloads to Rome, for basically 4x the performance for 1/2 the cost of cascade lake. Intel got caught with their pants down.

Single threaded performance still isn't that great though. I want a pure win across the board and they're not quite there yet. Single threaded performance is still too important for emulation and games to give up just yet.

 

[SantaC]

So what does that mean in terms of the market impact - prices, AMD position?
Does that mean Intel expexts next ryzens to be that good that its better to just refocus for the next step of their plans?

It means Ryzen has the chance to catch up even more in IPC, basically breathing intel in their neck.

 

[Skyr]

But I don’t want to upgrade to a 14nm cpu. I don’t want to go the AMD route either.
There might be a serious possibility that I will stay with my 4790k for 8 years then lol

 

[The Mad Draklor]

So what does that mean in terms of the market impact - prices, AMD position?
Does that mean Intel expexts next ryzens to be that good that its better to just refocus for the next step of their plans?

It gives Ryzen a chance to exceed Intel in gaming performance in terms of average framerate. AMD's server CPUs have been offering substantially better value and along with Intel's security issues, AMD's server CPU marketshare should continue to rise.

 

[ethomaz]

Intel 10nm is basically 7nm from others.
So it means Intel 7nm is more like 5nm from others... if they can do it in 2022 then they will have closed the actual process gab with AMD.

All these 10nm issues did hurt Intel a lot.

 

[Dane]

I don't get why, Ice Lake on mobile had a significant leap, it could have been at least a filling option until 7nm.

AMD Rome procs are 7nm and have basically a 18-24 month window here where the market is completely theirs. I have so many customers who are flipping data center workloads to Rome, for basically 4x the performance for 1/2 the cost of cascade lake. Intel got caught with their pants down.

I've heard that Intel top offering is very restricted and expensive as hell, truth is that they are losing big time on their more expensive line up, AMD offerings are a far better cost benefit. That's why Intel is now cutting prices.

 

[cartman414]

Guess they decided the window between 10 and 7 nm was too narrow.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I need to buy more AMD stock it seems.

 

[Tesseract]

we'll see

 

[Rolling_Start]

Does that mean Intel expexts next ryzens to be that good that its better to just refocus for the next step of their plans?

It's more likely to be from comparing to their own product line than AMD's. Whatever AMD do now, Intel will still want the best product possible on the market.

If this is true, it'll be because their 7nm products are simply not able to replace their 14nm++ stuff on the desktop, at desktop power and frequency, with desktop sized dice.

Intel 10nm is basically 7nm from others.

Starting to wonder about that. In terms of density it possibly is, but in terms of frequency scaling, and probably power, if it was faring as well as TSMC 7nm I expect we'd be seeing high end products on it now.

Yields were reported to be terrible on it for the first couple of years.

I don't get why, Ice Lake on mobile had a significant leap, it could have been at least a filling option until 7nm.

Ice Lake had a decent jump in IPC, but top clocks were down over comparable mobile parts on 14nm++ by ~ 10%. That clock speed deficit against 14nm++ would probably only increase as you approach the desktop performance / power envelope.

Intel still haven't released anything beyond a quad core on 10nm. Smaller chips should yield much better, all things being equal. That's one reason why AMD's chiplet approach is such a bold and disruptive way to increase core counts.

Edit: No word on 8+ core 10nm parts yet, AFAIK. Not sure if native quad core parts will make sense for the desktop come 2021.

 

[PocoJoe]

Single threaded performance still isn't that great though. I want a pure win across the board and they're not quite there yet. Single threaded performance is still too important for emulation and games to give up just yet.

Dude check your facts.

AMDs single thread perf is almost on par with intel, only avx512 makes bigger difference in certain programs.

Not counting avx512 and they are like +-5% the same.

If you say that is not great then what are you expecting?

www.techspot.com/amp/article/1876-4ghz-ryzen-3rd-gen-vs-core-i9/

Some random test from google, doesnt look too bad clock to clock

 

[dirthead]

Dude check your facts.

AMDs single thread perf is almost on par with intel, only avx512 makes bigger difference in certain programs.

Not counting avx512 and they are like +-5% the same.

If you say that is not great then what are you expecting?

www.techspot.com/amp/article/1876-4ghz-ryzen-3rd-gen-vs-core-i9/

Some random test from google, doesnt look too bad clock to clock

It's still not even close in programs like MAME (where single threaded performance actually matters). This is why I hate commercial review sites. They're fucking worthless for gamers. They don't even test the programs that reveal the differences between hardware.

 

[Dr.brain64]

Does my i7 3770 use less energy than today's processors?

 

[Boss Mog]

It means Ryzen has the chance to catch up even more in IPC, basically breathing intel in their neck.

They're already ahead of Intel on IPC at equal clockspeed. What AMD needs to do is get their chips to clock higher. A 5GHz Zen 3 would be devastating for Intel.

 

[SantaC]

They're already ahead of Intel on IPC at equal clockspeed. What AMD needs to do is get their chips to clock higher. A 5GHz Zen 3 would be devastating for Intel.

The zen arcitecture isnt built for 5ghz it seems.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

That's a massive fuck up by Intel. They're going to miss an entire generation... when's the last time it happened?

I'm happy for AMD tho, this industry needed some competition and kicking intel while they're down is popcorn worthy.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That's a massive fuck up by Intel. They're going to miss an entire generation... when's the last time it happened?

I'm happy for AMD tho, this industry needed some competition and kicking intel while they're down is popcorn worthy.

Explains the bribe fund they set up for the missed generation.

 

[Horsemama1956]

It's still not even close in programs like MAME (where single threaded performance actually matters). This is why I hate commercial review sites. They're fucking worthless for gamers. They don't even test the programs that reveal the differences between hardware.

Which games in MAME?

 

[ResilientBanana]

I built my PC 2 years ago, I can wait, but my buddy has the itch again.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Explains the bribe fund they set up for the missed generation.

Capitalism 2019.

 

[888]

Went from 4790k to 8700k to 9700k. Between each purchase I kept hearing about the new ones just around the corner. Well we are around the corner and I guess it’s behind another corner now.

I considered building with AMD this time but all my stuff is Intel in the house so for the sake of compatibility I am just keeping it the same.

 

[dirthead]

Which games in MAME?

Pretty much any game in MAME if you want to use high frame_delay values to reduce lag.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

They're already ahead of Intel on IPC at equal clockspeed. What AMD needs to do is get their chips to clock higher. A 5GHz Zen 3 would be devastating for Intel.

That plus getting their idle power consumption lower. Zen 2's on-load power consumption is fine.

 

[A.Romero]

Does my i7 3770 use less energy than today's processors?

No. Your CPU consumes almost 150 W on full load while a 8700K series doesn't go over 100 W. I think the TDP is 95W.

 

[PhoenixTank]

So this is either reiterating the leaked & unconfirmed roadmap or from another source. I've been pointing out the deafening silence on 10nm desktop for a while, but if this is really false Intel need to announce something to show otherwise, IMHO.

The zen arcitecture isnt built for 5ghz it seems.

I'm unsure about that. A bit like saying Sunny Cove (Ice Lake) isn't built for 5GHz.
Saw a wild rumour of +8% IPC for Zen 3 and a 200MHz increase in peak clocks. Still (just) less than 5GHz, of course. Personally think the rumour is feasible with 7nm+, which we know has recently hit the same yields as TSMC 7nm.

Intel 10nm is basically 7nm from others.
So it means Intel 7nm is more like 5nm from others... if they can do it in 2022 then they will have closed the actual process gab with AMD.

All these 10nm issues did hurt Intel a lot.

Unfortunately current TSMC roadmap is for N5 in late 2020, and I'd guess products in 2021. Anybody could hit a big snag with EUV, but as it stands this scenario doesn't solve Intel's problems.

 

[wordslaughter]

It's still not even close in programs like MAME (where single threaded performance actually matters). This is why I hate commercial review sites. They're fucking worthless for gamers. They don't even test the programs that reveal the differences between hardware.

Your posts in this thread just read like concern trolling.

What MAME games are you playing that run great on an i9 9900k but just don't quite cut it on any Ryzen 3000?

And at least get your facts straight. Currently AMD actually has HIGHER IPC than Intel ( Desktop ). What Intel has is higher clockspeed which is able to just barely eeek out a %5 win in some cases overall.

Intel's clockspeed advantage is tied to its 14nm+++++ process. As soon as they move to 10nm their clockspeed advantage disappears, which is exactly what they aren't making any 10nm desktop CPUs.

 

[dirthead]

Your posts in this thread just read like concern trolling.

What MAME games are you playing that run great on an i9 9900k but just don't quite cut it on any Ryzen 3000?

And at least get your facts straight. Currently AMD actually has HIGHER IPC than Intel ( Desktop ). What Intel has is higher clockspeed which is able to just barely eeek out a %5 win in some cases overall.

Intel's clockspeed advantage is tied to its 14nm+++++ process. As soon as they move to 10nm their clockspeed advantage disappears, which is exactly what they aren't making any 10nm desktop CPUs.

Stop spreading misinformation. You have no idea what you're talking about and obviously don't use MAME with high frame_delay settings so put a cork in it.

 

[LOLCats]

unbelievable if true.

 

[wordslaughter]

Stop spreading misinformation. You have no idea what you're talking about and obviously don't use MAME with high frame_delay settings so put a cork in it.

What misinformation am I spreading? AMD does have higher IPC.

And I'm sure playing ancient arcade games with an i9 ( overclocked to 5GHz of course ) using "high frame_delay settings" makes a HUUUUGE difference over using a Ryzen 3000 (unplayable I'm sure). If that isn't the most niche and desperate argument I've heard all month.

 

[LoganKnight4949]

But I don’t want to upgrade to a 14nm cpu. I don’t want to go the AMD route either.
There might be a serious possibility that I will stay with my 4790k for 8 years then lol

Hope you like CPU bottlenecks bro.

 

[n0razi]

I need to buy more AMD stock it seems.

I bought a ton of AMD stock earlier this year and still waiting for it to go up....

No. Your CPU consumes almost 150 W on full load while a 8700K series doesn't go over 100 W. I think the TDP is 95W.

TDP is irrelevant for boost clocks (even stock), google it

 

[A.Romero]

I bought a ton of AMD stock earlier this year and still waiting for it to go up....







TDP is irrelevant for boost clocks (even stock), google it

OK. Are you willing to look for the exact measurement?

 

[jono51]

This is all brian krzanichs fault.

if that MORON spent less time banging his secretary and more time on cpu r&d they wouldn't be in this mess right now.

worst ceo ever. andy grove is is turnin gin his grave

 

[Insane Metal]

Intel fucked up big time with their 7nm process. Still, their CPUs are able to kick some ass and the density of their silicon is pretty damn good.

But taking another 3 years to develop a better node... yeeeesh.