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[sonycowboy]

I've held off on Tivo in part because the hope that DVR functionality would be included with these consoles and because I bristle at the $299 lifetime fee of Tivo.

Xbox360 has a hard drive (admittedly, not big enough) and the processing power.

The PS3 might have the HDD standard or optional and the processing power.

All they needed was video in capability, the software, and boom, you've got DVR funtionality, right? I know Xbox is relying on it's cooperation w/ a Media Center PC (and maybe MSN TV??) , but I ain't going there.

Guess I'm gonna have to get Tivo. After all these years.

Just seems like a golden opportunity for both systems that would have taken trivial expense to include and would increase the worth of the system significantly (and might have supported a higher cost)

 

[RuGalz]

Ya then they will need to develop software and all the other things you need to go with it and probably raise prices. Wait for PS3X.

 

[rastex]

All they needed was video in capability, the software, and boom, you've got DVR funtionality, right? I know Xbox is relying on it's cooperation w/ a Media Center PC (and maybe MSN TV??) , but I ain't going there.

Why? A TV Card costs like $20.

Personally, I think the media capabilities and the entire integration with the rest of the is the biggest selling point of the X360. Sure it'd be a lot easier if they just had video in themselves, but for Xbox2 it's not that difficult (and much cheaper) to use the extender functionality than TIVO. And if you're online then that makes everything so much better, it's seriously something I'm really excited about. If you ever partake in an online tournament then you know how much of a pain in the ass it is to catch people online, but you can be watching tv see the guy you're supposed to play pop up and switch over to the game at the press of a few buttons.

I know I'm sounding like J Allard here, it's just that I'm really really excited for the the integration between media and live and all of that that MS is bringing. It really suits the way I do things.

 

[The Faceless Master]

video in?

no, not really

 

[element]

I'm not disappointed. I really want want an 'all in one' machine. More chances for it to break down. Also if you wanted something recorded, and were playing a game, what is the preference.
Machine switches to DVR mode kicking you out of the game? Machine doesn't record TV show?

Why? A TV Card costs like $20.

If you want 480i. If they were going to do a DVR function, I'd expect it to be able to record at whatever the source is. So HDTV chipsets could be a little more.

 

[gofreak]

Machine switches to DVR mode kicking you out of the game? Machine doesn't record TV show?

Why couldn't you do both simultaneously?

 

[akascream]

I'm dissapointed these machines don't have this functionality. Especially with all the talk of entertainment hub, or taking over the living room. Umm, yeah if the NES 'took over' the living room heh.


As far as doing two things at once, put in more hardware sheesh. Somehow we can engineer and mass produce the most complex cpu architectures available anywhere in the context of a sophisticated simulations design, but we can't figure out how a game can access a hdd while dvr is recording? Please.

 

[FiRez]

More like Video-out (DVI , HDMI on X360) I still hope they can add it.

 

[sonycowboy]

Why? A TV Card costs like $20.

Personally, I think the media capabilities and the entire integration with the rest of the is the biggest selling point of the X360. Sure it'd be a lot easier if they just had video in themselves, but for Xbox2 it's not that difficult (and much cheaper) to use the extender functionality than TIVO. And if you're online then that makes everything so much better, it's seriously something I'm really excited about. If you ever partake in an online tournament then you know how much of a pain in the ass it is to catch people online, but you can be watching tv see the guy you're supposed to play pop up and switch over to the game at the press of a few buttons.

I know I'm sounding like J Allard here, it's just that I'm really really excited for the the integration between media and live and all of that that MS is bringing. It really suits the way I do things.

I'm a Mac user. It doesn't suit the way I do things. And I don't think it'll suit 90%+ of users to try and shove the Windows Media Center stuff into the living room.

 

[akascream]

I'm a Mac user. It doesn't suit the way I do things. And I don't think it'll suit 90%+ of users to try and shove the Windows Media Center stuff into the living room.

Yeah, the XP connectivity is pretty worthless. Even if XP Pro is capable (I don't have media edition), I won't use it...and I'm more likely to than any casual gamer. It was a waste of time and money for them to implement that imo.

 

[Ponn]

I don't recall them saying what exact inputs they have on either machine. I saw USB on the PS3 and xbox 360 though and possible firewire. I believe some DVR machines use USB and Firewire and if you look on your HD cable boxes thats why those usb and firewire slots are there so that could work. As far as multitasking that is what the cell processor is supposed to be all about. That's why they had the tech talk showing off the cell processor decoding multiple media files at once.

 

[dorio]

Why couldn't you do both simultaneously?

Because developers would want all 3 processors for their games. They wouldn't want processing power going to dv functionality while they are trying to render game screens.

 

[dorio]

Yeah, the XP connectivity is pretty worthless. Even if XP Pro is capable (I don't have media edition), I won't use it...and I'm more likely to than any casual gamer. It was a waste of time and money for them to implement that imo.

I'm going to use it and I'm sure alot of people will. Why wouldn't you if you have an xp machine and alot of porn and music stored on your computer?

 

[human5892]

Wait, if Xbox 360 doesn't have video-in, then how can it display things like buddy notifications over broadcast television? Wouldn't you have to be running your TV signal through the console for that, since otherwise all console video output is handled by a dedicated video channel?

 

[empanada]

Because developers would want all 3 processors for their games. They wouldn't want processing power going to dv functionality while they are trying to render game screens.

And the constant hard drive accesses will slow down games into a slideshow.

 

[dorio]

Wait, if Xbox 360 doesn't have video-in, then how can it display things like buddy notifications over broadcast television? Wouldn't you have to be running your TV signal through the console for that, since otherwise all console video output is handled by a dedicated video channel?

I was wondering the same thing. Any comments, Element?

 

[sonycowboy]

Wait, if Xbox 360 doesn't have video-in, then how can it display things like buddy notifications over broadcast television?

That's streamed over the network from your Media Center PC, not from your cable or satellite input.

 

[Lord Error]

Why? A TV Card costs like $20.

Yeah, both machines will offer AV playback from your computer, so I don't think the lack of DVR is that big of a deal. It's certainly a lot less convenient though, and I doubt I'll ever use it that way
Don't you also lose the HDTV programming if you watch the TV through the media center PC?

 

[DarienA]

Please remember that the Tivo lifetime membership is for the lifetime of the TIVO itself... not you... so if it breaks and you get a new one? You pay all over again. Food for thought. I don't know why some of you thought DVR functionality was going to be built in to these next machines... IMO that's still 1-2 generations AFTER this generation we're getting ready to go in to.

<looks at Dcharlie>

Sorry I mean built in and done Well.

 

[human5892]

That's streamed over the network from your Media Center PC, not from your cable or satellite input.

Oh...so if you don't set up a wi-fi network in your house and attach the Xbox 360 and an appropriate PC to it, you can't use those features? That kind of sucks.

 

[akascream]

Because developers would want all 3 processors for their games. They wouldn't want processing power going to dv functionality while they are trying to render game screens.

So you are saying that they are incapable of designing a machine that can perform both tasks at the same time? I doubt it is that cpu intensive to throw an incoming video stream to a hdd. What kind of powerhouse cpu is in my dvr reciever? Throw that sucker in the Xbox360 as seperate dedicated dvr hardware that doesn't interact with the game side of things, except perhaps by sharing the hdd.

These guys are building incredibly complicated machines. To say it's just too hard to get tivo functionality out of these boxes is kind of ridiculous in the face of a cpu like cell, and the monster gpus that have been designed for these machines. I somehow think they could have managed it.

 

[sonycowboy]

I don't know why some of you thought DVR functionality was going to be built in to these next machines... IMO that's still 1-2 generations AFTER this generation we're getting ready to go in to.

<looks at Dcharlie>

Sorry I mean built in and done Well.

Oh. You just poo-poo everything.


Darien: "Those of you expecting to see the PS3 are going to be very disappointed."
Darien: "Those of you expecting to see PS3 online comparable to Live are going to be very disappoited."
Darien: "Those of you expecting playable 360 games are going to be very disappointed."

Darien = setting the bar low for next gen.

 

[gofreak]

Because developers would want all 3 processors for their games. They wouldn't want processing power going to dv functionality while they are trying to render game screens.

Possibly, though I was thinking a little more generally beyond X360 there. I think it'd be less of a problem on PS3 though. I believe one of the SPEs is being reserved for the OS, and the recorder could just use go through the OS and use its SPE to do that. In both systems the OS is reserving some resources for itself - which could include "background" functionality like this - but I'm not sure how MS would/is reserving processing resources..for sure it would be a little less attractive to reserve one of X360's cores vs one SPE.

And the constant hard drive accesses will slow down games into a slideshow.

If the game isn't using the HD, I'm not sure how it would have any impact (?)

 

[dorio]

So you are saying that they are incapable of designing a machine that can perform both tasks at the same time? I doubt it is that cpu intensive to throw an incoming video stream to a hdd. What kind of powerhouse cpu is in my dvr reciever? Throw that sucker in the Xbox360 as seperate dedicated dvr hardware that doesn't interact with the game side of things, except perhaps by sharing the hdd.

These guys are building incredibly complicated machines. To say it's just too hard to get tivo functionality out of these boxes is kind of ridiculous in the face of a cpu like cell, and the monster gpus that have been designed for these machines. I somehow think they could have managed it.

They could have managed it but at what cost in terms of hardware, software development and testing. The software interface alone would require alot of testing and refining. They could do it, but a standalone box or an addon later that focuses on that functionality would work better.

 

[RuGalz]

So you are saying that they are incapable of designing a machine that can perform both tasks at the same time? I doubt it is that cpu intensive to throw an incoming video stream to a hdd. What kind of powerhouse cpu is in my dvr reciever? Throw that sucker in the Xbox360 as seperate dedicated dvr hardware that doesn't interact with the game side of things, except perhaps by sharing the hdd.

And you do realize how much HD Tivo costs right? Without dedicated hardware to compress video stream it's very CPU intensive work even at SD.

 

[DarienA]

Oh. You just poo-poo everything.


Darien: "Those of you expecting to see the PS3 are going to be very disappointed."
Darien: "Those of you expecting to see PS3 online comparable to Live are going to be very disappoited."
Darien: "Those of you expecting playable 360 games are going to be very disappointed."

Darien = setting the bar low for next gen.

I'm trying to keep you f*ckers grounded in reality. Wait WTF? Where did that third one come from? I said PS3 playable games, not 360 playable games.

 

[sonycowboy]

They could have managed it but at what cost in terms of hardware, software development and testing. The software interface alone would require alot of testing and refining. They could do it, but a standalone box or an addon later that focuses on that functionality would work better.

Please.

Microsoft already has the software in multiple products. Windows Media Center & MSNTV.

Clearly, they want those products to continue without interference from the 360.

 

[tedtropy]

Eh, Tivo's a rip-off without DirecTV and there's no way any of the consoles would implement supporting that. So am I dissapointed? Nah.

 

[sonycowboy]

Eh, Tivo's a rip-off without DirecTV and there's no way any of the consoles would implement supporting that. So am I dissapointed? Nah.

My digital cable begs to differ. I get 11 HD stations (with dozens more promised over the next several years) and several hundred channels. Why do I need DirecTV? (beyond the awesome sports packages)

PS. Cable is also clearly superior when you include High Speed Internet.

 

[jedimike]

I'm going to weigh the options before I go out and get a media center PC (which I have been considering for a couple years). I have TiVo and I have a DVR through Comcast. I transfer my Xbox a lot from upstairs to downstairs... so having a video-in would be a just be a pain for me.

Comcast uses the Microsoft menu system in their DVR's. It's not quite as good as TiVo's but it is better than the old menu system. BTW, I pay $6.95 a month for TiVo and $5 a month for the Comcast DVR.

I just spewed a lot of nonsense... but I have to agree with Darien here. We're just not there yet.

 

[DarienA]

I'm going to weigh the options before I go out and get a media center PC (which I have been considering for a couple years). I have TiVo and I have a DVR through Comcast. I transfer my Xbox a lot from upstairs to downstairs... so having a video-in would be a just be a pain for me.

Comcast uses the Microsoft menu system in their DVR's. It's not quite as good as TiVo's but it is better than the old menu system. BTW, I pay $6.95 a month for TiVo and $5 a month for the Comcast DVR.

I just spewed a lot of nonsense... but I have to agree with Darien here. We're just not there yet.

Hey JM we're thinking of dropping DirecTivo because the damn signal goes out WHENEVER it rains... how would you judge the Comcast DVR(which they are going to give us in a pretty nice package..$69.99/digital/dvr/internet) to Tivo? I know it doesn't do suggestions... does it do wishlists? Season Pass?

 

[tedtropy]

My digital cable begs to differ. I get 11 HD stations (with dozens more promised over the next several years) and several hundred channels. Why do I need DirecTV? (beyond the awesome sports packages)

PS. Cable is also clearly superior when you include High Speed Internet.

I can't vouch for Comcast, but Time Warner's DVRs are a joke. Anyways, I was comparing TiVo options, not cable vs satellite.

 

[dorio]

Please.

Microsoft already has the software in multiple products. Windows Media Center & MSNTV.

Clearly, they want those products to continue without interference from the 360.

You can't just stick anything into the box and hit compile. It has to work in the context of the interface of the gaming console. It they knew they were going to be shipping with a 20 gb harddrive, why go through all that trouble for something that you can only store a few minutes of HD programming on.

 

[sonycowboy]

Comcast uses the Microsoft menu system in their DVR's. It's not quite as good as TiVo's but it is better than the old menu system. BTW, I pay $6.95 a month for TiVo and $5 a month for the Comcast DVR.

Interestingly enough, this exact issue is part of the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray debate right now. HD-DVD is using Microsoft's embedded software for digital set top boxes whereas Blu-Ray wants to use Linux and Java. Just recently, I believe cable providers stated that they are considering abandoning Microsoft's DVR software.

 

[jedimike]

Hey JM we're thinking of dropping DirecTivo because the damn signal goes out WHENEVER it rains... how would you judge the Comcast DVR(which they are going to give us in a pretty nice package..$69.99/digital/dvr/internet) to Tivo? I know it doesn't do suggestions... does it do wishlists? Season Pass?

Comcast just upgraded the firmware. The new system is pretty damn good. I haven't had any missed recordings. Season pass works flawlessly and now you can do intelligent searches like TiVo.

Comcast doesn't have the pretty graphics, it doesn't rewind a little bit when you FFWD past the start of your show, and it doesn't record programs that it thinks you might like.

What it does offer though is a dual-tuner, high-def recording, and more space. You'll miss your TiVo, but the bang for buck of Comcast wins, IMO.

 

[jedimike]

Interestingly enough, this exact issue is part of the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray debate right now. HD-DVD is using Microsoft's embedded software for digital set top boxes whereas Blu-Ray wants to use Linux and Java. Just recently, I believe cable providers stated that they are considering abandoning Microsoft's DVR software.

I heard it was the other way around. MS was losing share to Linux, but they improved the software and/or pricing and have now signed some big cable contracts.

edit: I'm pretty sure that is why H&E division looked so good last quarter.

 

[tedtropy]

Comcast just upgraded the firmware. The new system is pretty damn good. I haven't had any missed recordings. Season pass works flawlessly and now you can do intelligent searches like TiVo.

Comcast doesn't have the pretty graphics, it doesn't rewind a little bit when you FFWD past the start of your show, and it doesn't record programs that it thinks you might like.

What it does offer though is a dual-tuner, high-def recording, and more space. You'll miss your TiVo, but the bang for buck of Comcast wins, IMO.

The DirecTiVo I have now does dual-tuner recording and has a pretty decent 160GB drive in it. Unfortunately HD DirecTiVos appear to be made entirely of platinum, because they are absurdly expensive.

 

[Yusaku]

TIVO functionality isn't as simple as just adding inputs and a tuner. My HD-DVR I lease from Comcast costs like $800. If you're set on using your consoles like this build a Windows Media Center PC and use the MC Extender on the 360 to watch your shows.

 

[TTP]

If the game isn't using the HD, I'm not sure how it would have any impact (?)

Indeed. Isn't this what the actual PSX already allows to do? DCharlie?

 

[DarienA]

What it does offer though is a dual-tuner, high-def recording, and more space. You'll miss your TiVo, but the bang for buck of Comcast wins, IMO.

Oh it does have a dual tuner? Good deal... we're gonna bite the bullet and pay the penalty $12.50/month for months left on contract to get out of DirectTV... how many hours can your record on it?

You said it doesn't do suggestions which IIRC I already knew because I think Tivo actually has a patent for that feature... but does it do wishlists?

Record all items say that have Clint Eastwood in them, or record all items that have the words Godzilla in the title, or by category Sports/Boxing, etc?

The DirecTiVo I have now does dual-tuner recording and has a pretty decent 160GB drive in it. Unfortunately HD DirecTiVos appear to be made entirely of platinum, because they are absurdly expensive.

And isn't it incompatible with the new HD bird they just launched a bit back?

 

[Yusaku]

I'm going to use it and I'm sure alot of people will. Why wouldn't you if you have an xp machine and alot of porn and music stored on your computer?

We have no idea what formats the 360 will play from WinXP machines. I don't expect it to replace XBMC.

I can't vouch for Comcast, but Time Warner's DVRs are a joke. Anyways, I was comparing TiVo options, not cable vs satellite.

Comcast's Motorola DCT6412 is awesome.

vvvv I pay $10 for the dual tuner HD-DVR. Comcast told me it was $5 a month just for the HD cable box.

 

[sonycowboy]

BTW, I pay $6.95 a month for TiVo and $5 a month for the Comcast DVR.

Is that a short term (3/6 months) promotion? Where I live the Comcast DVR costs $9.95 a month.

Hey JM we're thinking of dropping DirecTivo because the damn signal goes out WHENEVER it rains... how would you judge the Comcast DVR(which they are going to give us in a pretty nice package..$69.99/digital/dvr/internet) to Tivo? I know it doesn't do suggestions... does it do wishlists? Season Pass?

Same question for you. Is this a short term promotion or is there some deal that I'm missing out on.

I'm paying $42 for high speed internet & $62 for digital cable. I think we get some sort of line discount, but it's still like ~$94 or so.

 

[DarienA]

Same question for you. Is this a short term promotion or is there some deal that I'm missing out on.

I'm paying $42 for high speed internet & $62 for digital cable. I think we get some sort of line discount, but it's still like ~$94 or so.

It's at least a one year deal and I think its their deal for folks who are converting from Sat.

 

[tedtropy]

And isn't it incompatible with the new HD bird they just launched a bit back?

I wouldn't know either way. My baby's daddy can't afford HD.

 

[Yusaku]

Another nice thing with the DCT6412 is that you can connect it to your PC with firewire, install DVHS drivers, and copy recordings to your PC with CapDVHS.

 

[element]

I have HD-DVR from Comcast and I love it compared to my Tivo. I was REALLY getting annoyed by channel surfing with the Tivo and the cable box connected after the Tivo2Go upgrade. It took FOREVER to change the channel.

I don't even have an HDTV, but I can watch the HD feeds, and it is awesome.

Sony's plan is to have one machine in the living room be the hub, where MS plan is to always have the PC as the hub.

 

[Rhindle]

The Windows Media Center software is really nice, and there's no way anything you could do on a console/set-top box is going to match the functionality (or the storage capacity) of a PC-based media center.

So I'm pretty happy with the X360 media extender set-up.

We'll probably move towards the living-room based hub eventually, but not for the next few years, the PC-based model wins.

 

[Ghost]

I intend to get myself a MC PC set up and plug my main TV/Cable in through that (by a means i have not yet investigated), record my shows with MC and play them through the 360.


So long any need for Tivo/Sky plus.

 

[akascream]

And you do realize how much HD Tivo costs right? Without dedicated hardware to compress video stream it's very CPU intensive work even at SD.

Do you realize how much Xbox360 would cost if you took game profits out of the equation?

At the very least they shouldn't be writing PR checks they can't cash. You aren't taking over my living room you twits, you are making another game box.

Anyway, I think MS really dropped the ball in particular. It would have been a brilliant way to take marketshare from Sony imo. Not just because dvr/tivo is way nice, but because you could get messages from xbox live while watching tv, and playing a game would be as simple as pickup up the xbox controller next to your tv remote and just play.

I hate getting up and switching everything over and throwing a game in to play. It's such a deterant. If tv could be hooked up through the xbox360, I think much more time would have been spent on the system by gamers.

where MS plan is to always have the PC as the hub.

This will never take off.

 

[DarienA]

This will never take off.

Wait.. is this a joke?