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[nowhat]

And from what I understand, there are multiple endings in CP where your prior choices actually have an impact.

Yeah... that's not really the case. There are only a few missions where how you approach them have any impact afterwards. There are multiple endings, yes, but whether they are available is only a matter of whether you've completed certain side content, not how you've completed them. (OK, there's the secret ending, but it's pretty much bullshit, you have to pick certain options in a single dialogue and wait a lot at the end, it's pretty much the "just google it because you'll never figure it out by yourself" ending)

So in terms of role-playing, or that your decisions have any impact, imma go with "nope". Doesn't mean CP isn't enjoyable for what it is though.

 

[Topher]

Yeah... that's not really the case. There are only a few missions where how you approach them have any impact afterwards. There are multiple endings, yes, but whether they are available is only a matter of whether you've completed certain side content, not how you've completed them. (OK, there's the secret ending, but it's pretty much bullshit, you have to pick certain options in a single dialogue and wait a lot at the end, it's pretty much the "just google it because you'll never figure it out by yourself" ending)

So in terms of role-playing, or that your decisions have any impact, imma go with "nope". Doesn't mean CP isn't enjoyable for what it is though.

Well then in that case, CP (based on what you are saying) and Starfield are on equal footing in that aspect as well. There is really only one choice to be made in Starfield and frankly, it leads into the most contrived ending based on all the buildup leading to it.

I'll reserve judgement on CP myself until I finish it.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Well then in that case, CP (based on what you are saying) and Starfield are on equal footing in that aspect as well. There is really only one choice to be made in Starfield and frankly, it leads into the most contrived ending based on all the buildup leading to it.

I'll reserve judgement on CP myself until I finish it.

You cannot have plethora of choices in simulation style RPGs.

It's not like player selects something from text choices, and game kills someone/ keep alive other character and some dialogue choices get altered.

In Bethesda games usually it plays out in game world. NPCs act according to AI and you witness game world changing right in front of you.

Yet to finish Starfield but if it has a choice, that sounds promising. I was thinking it might have none.

 

[Topher]

You cannot have plethora of choices in simulation style RPGs.

It's not like player selects something from text choices, and game kills someone/ keep alive other character and some dialogue choices get altered.

In Bethesda games usually it plays out in game world. NPCs act according to AI and you witness game world changing right in front of you.

Yet to finish Starfield but if it has a choice, that sounds promising. I was thinking it might have none.

I'll be interested to see what you think of the ending.

 

[Mediocre Arachno-Lad]

Who the fuck would we compare it in 2013 if it indeed released then?

To last year's Mass Effect 3, Borderlands 2, Dishonored and Xenoblade Chronicles.
And honestly, the main defense of Starfield for all of its failings as a space game is "iTs nOt a sPaCe SiM, iTs aN RpG", so who gives a shit if there weren't any good space sims back then? Starfield isn't one, remember?
Unless we all agree this excuse is a desperate reach to begin with.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I'll be interested to see what you think of the ending.

I have played enough of their games, i expect it will suck from story POV.

Still interested to see what they have build. Always fascinating to watch.

 

[Boss Mog]

Well, if you were already happy with how the game was then I can definitely get that. I do think you are in the minority, however, considering how well the changes have been received. But that doesn't invalidate your take on it at all, mind you. For me, I couldn't get into CP at launch and it was my most anticipated game for some time as a big CDPR fan. The update has breathed new life into the game for me and feels like a brand new release.

I do think they should let you revert back to the previous version if you want to.

Don't get me wrong, I think for people who never played the game, 2.0 is great.

But one of the things I focused on in my build was crafting so I had 20 technical Ability and spent a bunch of perk points on crafting perks so I could make and upgrade all the best gears (which also allowed me to generate income from selling what I crafted) and so for them to remove crafting from the perk system all together and dumb it down to a very basic common skill where you can't really make money or worthwhile equipment, is very disappointing. Also I spent a bunch of time finding all the best armor (clothes) and crafted the best mods to put in those armors but now clothes no longer have an armor rating and no longer have mod slots. It became all cosmetic. Weapon mods were also completely changed and replaced with shitty ones that all have penalties, i don't even bother equipping them now.

 

[Topher]

Don't get me wrong, I think for people who never played the game, 2.0 is great.

But one of the things I focused on in my build was crafting so I had 20 technical Ability and spent a bunch of perk points on crafting perks so I could make and upgrade all the best gears (which also allowed me to generate income from selling what I crafted) and so for them to remove crafting from the perk system all together and dumb it down to a very basic common skill where you can really make money or worthwhile equipment, is very disappointing. Also I spent a bunch of time finding all the best armor (clothes) and crafted the best mods to put in those armors but now clothes no longer have an armor rating and no longer have mod slots. It became all cosmetic. Weapon mods were also completely changed and replaced with shitty ones that all have penalties, i don't even bother equipping them now.

Damn. Yeah, I can see how all your time invested there getting thrown out of the game entirely would suck.

 

[Woggleman]

I am sort of glad about the clothes thing because my V no longer has to looks like a jackass in order to have good stats.

I genuinely like all the changes but they nerfed quick hacks a bit too much though I found a work around.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Cyberpunk2077 is such a weird game.

We're going to create this really interesting open world environment and we're going to linear the **** out of the player during all the missions. The completion rate has to be pretty low on this one.

 

[struggler_guts]

You cannot have plethora of choices in simulation style RPGs.

 

[EDMIX]

To last year's Mass Effect 3, Borderlands 2, Dishonored and Xenoblade Chronicles.
And honestly, the main defense of Starfield for all of its failings as a space game is "iTs nOt a sPaCe SiM, iTs aN RpG", so who gives a shit if there weren't any good space sims back then? Starfield isn't one, remember?
Unless we all agree this excuse is a desperate reach to begin with.

smh, the fuck? That is a lot of assumptions but ok lol

None of the game you brought up are like Starfield.

Sooooo I don't really know that in 2013, enough existed that was even near what this was to feel it would be seen that way. I believe No Man Sky, ED and many more if anything have allowed for gamers to get those experiences that forces Starfield to be much more, then what it likely needed to be if it released before them.

So what I'm saying isn't a fucking "defense" its reality, Starfield is a game in space, it setting has a lot to do with its appeal and someone buying this will factor that.

This isn't a fucking fight man.

We are merely discussing IF released in 2013, would this idea be dated, based on all the games people have compared to Starfield, I don't see how that could be if most of then didn't come out in 2013, it means Starfield would be even more of a unicorn in 2013 then in 2023 when the market has lots of space type games to get that space enjoyment based on the setting.

(I don't really even know why you felt that wasn't relevant to all this)

 

[SiahWester]

I enjoy Cyberpunk more, but they're very different.

 

[Bungie]

Thats his post you quoted. Where exactly does he say "everything is a downgrade"? You move goal posts with literally every person. I LIKE Starfield, just baffling the lengths you are going to in this thread to defend it from any and all criticism.

That is the post, I was replying to when they said this "How can you say the game is creative when it doesn't do ONE thing better then their previous games?" then someone replied to my upgrade post with a picture of Adoring Fan and said power of series x and I replied it looks better than Fallout 4. Then you replied to another person insulting me and said.

Stop being so sensitive. If someone is going to shill, call it out. You can like one thing without being dishonest about the other like hes been. I mean, just a few posts up hes doing his best to defend the character graphics with reasoning like "better than Fallout 4" lmao cmon guy. When civil discourse fails cause one person can;t stop shilling, no need to pretend otherwise.

When someone replies to my post about the game being upgraded with a picture insulting the games graphics, of course I'm going to bring up their previous title to prove the graphics do look better lol
You are acting like this is something so crazy to call me out on but you are just trying too hard and it's once again obvious & embarrassing.

 

[Macaron]

That is the post, I was replying to when they said this "How can you say the game is creative when it doesn't do ONE thing better then their previous games?"

Not defending character graphics in general or for a console, they said everything about Starfield is a down grade

Ahhh so now its no longer "they said everything about Starfield is a downgrade" cause I pointed out you made that up. Now its moving the goal posts some more and back tracking to what was actually said. OK got it

 

[Bungie]

A game doesn't have to be an RPG to be able to compare the space traveling aspect and there are several that are better than Starfield. Elite Dangerous, Everspace 2, Star Citizen and Rebel Galaxy come to mind. Outer Worlds and Mass Effect are games that don't even involve actually piloting the ship.

Apologies didn't see this until now & I want to be clear this is just my take on why the game being a RPG matters, not claiming an all knowingly knowledge of development lol

Todd did say there's alot of dynamic systems that go into making a Bethesda RPG feel alive. So your role play experience feels more immersive, most named NPCs in Bethesda games have schedules, lots of voiced acted dialogue, and there's an entire sandbox to load with quest, day/night etc. These systems from what I can tell need to be loaded into and its why you only see seemless space travel in games where these systems aren't in play to this level.

I'm not saying it's impossible but it's definitely a design choice and it's why you see RPGs not having seemless space travel mixed with a fully alive area to Starfields level. Could BGS they have done better though, 1000% yes. not sure how long it would have delayed the game more lol or the amount of bugs seemless flying would create but if I had to make a choice between having to fly/land my ship everywhere vs a immersive alive area in my space rpg. I'm picking the 2nd one personally. I really disliked having to fly everywhere and land in No Man's Sky.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Is this game be all end all?

Whatever is being discussed, just name call Baldurs Gate 3 for an automatic win.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I wish I could change my vote, I like both games almost equally (even tho there was no option for that in the poll), but for different reasons. Superficially they have similar things like being a 1st person rpg with guns. But they are too different to compare IMO. It’s like comparing Star Wars or Star Trek to Bladerunner.

 

[Topher]

Apologies didn't see this until now & I want to be clear this is just my take on why the game being a RPG matters, not claiming an all knowingly knowledge of development lol

Todd did say there's alot of dynamic systems that go into making a Bethesda RPG feel alive. So your role play experience feels more immersive, most named NPCs in Bethesda games have schedules, lots of voiced acted dialogue, and there's an entire sandbox to load with quest, day/night etc. These systems from what I can tell need to be loaded into and its why you only see seemless space travel in games where these systems aren't in play to this level.

I'm not saying it's impossible but it's definitely a design choice and it's why you see RPGs not having seemless space travel mixed with a fully alive area to Starfields level. Could BGS they have done better though, 1000% yes. not sure how long it would have delayed the game more lol or the amount of bugs seemless flying would create but if I had to make a choice between having to fly/land my ship everywhere vs a immersive alive area in my space rpg. I'm picking the 2nd one personally. I really disliked having to fly everywhere and land in No Man's Sky.

That's fair. Personally, I love the immersiveness of flying through the solar systems or galaxies and landing on planets, but I get that not everyone is going to want to do that. I feel like if NMS and Starfield had a baby then that would be an awesome game to me. Fair to say that Starfield has aspects that none of the other games I listed even try to do and it is hard as hell do everything unless you want an endless Star Citizen situation. lol

 

[Bungie]

Ahhh so now its no longer "they said everything about Starfield is a downgrade" cause I pointed out you made that up. Now its moving the goal posts some more and back tracking to what was actually said. OK got it

Saying not even ONE thing is better from their previous games and picking apart each system of the game including skills, companions etc they aren't exactly saying the game is an upgrade lmao

Just because I use a quicker sentence to some up their post. What's the big deal? I don't see the point of you trying so hard to pick apart everything I say. You are giving me childish vibes like "HAHA you said this and now you said it like this haha i got you, i win!" Again, let's stick to the topic of the games but one more thing, I'm going to be honest & ask because you keep bringing it up, what is goal posting?!? If you don't mind telling me.

I'm just replying to people my opinions, that replied to me...isn't that the point...

 

[Bungie]

That's fair. Personally, I love the immersiveness of flying through the solar systems or galaxies and landing on planets, but I get that not everyone is going to want to do that. I feel like if NMS and Starfield had a baby then that would be an awesome game to me. Fair to say that Starfield has aspects that none of the other games I listed even try to do and it is hard as hell do everything unless you want an endless Star Citizen situation. lol

The option to seemlessly fly would be amazing and would definitely up the experience of Starfield for so many people, I believe there's a mod to do so already but not 100% I play on Console.

Oh God. Star Citizen is a insane simulation. I dont think much can be compared to that lmao.

 

[Macaron]

Saying not even ONE thing is better from their previous games and picking apart each system of the game including skills, companions etc they aren't exactly saying the game is an upgrade lmao

Well, at least you admit you just made shit up.

 

[Boss Mog]

I am sort of glad about the clothes thing because my V no longer has to looks like a jackass in order to have good stats.

I genuinely like all the changes but they nerfed quick hacks a bit too much though I found a work around.

You never had to look like a jackass. They had patched the game a while back with an "outfit" system where you could create an outfit with whatever clothes you wanted and then equip it only as a cosmetic effect while keeping your good (ugly) armors on for the stats.

 

[xpresstuning]

Right now after they finally finished Cyberpunk? It is much better than Starfield.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

You never had to look like a jackass. They had patched the game a while back with an "outfit" system where you could create an outfit with whatever clothes you wanted and then equip it only as a cosmetic effect while keeping your good (ugly) armors on for the stats.

Never? Wardrobe was introduced last year in patch 1.6.

 

[Fredrik]

Cyberpunk is a great story driven action adventure. Starfield is a great RPG set in space. I can and I do enjoy both a lot

Hey you can’t like two things, you need to pick a side, one thing needs to be the best thing since sliced bread and the other needs to be shit!
/s

I agree though and Cyberpunk was my GOTY in 2020 and Starfield is rushing up the list for my GOTY in 2023.

 

[Bungie]

Well, at least you admit you just made shit up.

Was that a Johnny Silverhand line? Either way at most you only quote pieces of my posts & give a lackluster reply that only serves to boost your ego.
You should try out a game called Saltfield

 

[The artful mincer]

Cyberpunk2077 is such a weird game.

We're going to create this really interesting open world environment and we're going to linear the **** out of the player during all the missions. The completion rate has to be pretty low on this one.

You never played a rockstar game? This has been rockstar game design 101 since GTA4.

In fact RDR2 is about as linear as you can get during missions. Literal invisible walls everywhere that won't even allow flanking. All while having the most detailed open world ever.

RDR2 felt like playing 10 COD campaigns back to back.

 

[BootsLoader]

So it’s concluded, according to the poll and the comments, Cyberpubk is a better game. Thanks everyone who participated in the poll and everyone who commented. I really enjoyed this thread.

 

[Mediocre Arachno-Lad]

smh, the fuck? That is a lot of assumptions but ok lol

Assumptions of what? That people use the "it's not a space sim, it's skyrim in space" line to safeguard Starfield from comparisons to Outer Wilds, Elite Dangerous, No Man's Sky and Star Citizen?

None of the game you brought up are like Starfield.

How so? Starfield is a sci-fi action RPG, those are sci-fi action RPGs. Define "like Starfield".

Sooooo I don't really know that in 2013, enough existed that was even near what this was to feel it would be seen that way.

Having a stroke there, man?

So what I'm saying isn't a fucking "defense" its reality, Starfield is a game in space, it setting has a lot to do with its appeal and someone buying this will factor that.

So is Mass Effect 3. What's your point?
What, you gonna tell me that Starfield has bigger scope because you can land on procedurally-generated planets with copy-pasted outposts? A feature that Mass Effect had in 2007, dropped it like an ugly baby in later installments, and was much better for it?
Speaking of Mass Effect from 2007, do you remember that they gave you A FUCKING ROVER for exploring those planets?
Wow, Starfield is really in a league of its own. In filling the game with game design blunders that were solved a decade ago.

We are merely discussing IF released in 2013, would this idea be dated, based on all the games people have compared to Starfield, I don't see how that could be if most of then didn't come out in 2013

It's not the idea that's dated, it's the game design.
And of course a game that's released in 2023 is most commonly compared to games from the last 5 years, and not games from 2013, you bellend.
In the hypothetical scenario where Starfield came out in 2013, there would still be plenty games to upstage it in the sci-fi action RPG space.
And of course you conveniently gonna omit the "It's Skyrim in space!" trope Starfield fanboys have been throwing around. Comparing it to a fucking 2011 game all by themselves.

 

[Mediocre Arachno-Lad]

Is this game be all end all?

Whatever is being discussed, just name call Baldurs Gate 3 for an automatic win.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

 

[vaibhavpisal]

How do choices in Baldurs Gate 3 play out via simulation??

 

[brian0057]

The answer to the question "Is Cyberpunk much better than Starfield?" is: Play Deus Ex.

 

[Tomeru]

I'm impressed. And also holy shit.

 

[Macaron]

Was that a Johnny Silverhand line? Either way at most you only quote pieces of my posts & give a lackluster reply that only serves to boost your ego.
You should try out a game called Saltfield

Why would I converse with someone who has been dishonest about Cyberpunk and literally making shit up, which now you've admitted at least good job, in an attempt to argue? I'm not even reading all your weird paragraphs of posts, nvm the quoting pieces part

 

[BootsLoader]

The answer to the question "Is Cyberpunk much better than Starfield?" is: Play Deus Ex.

Sorry, didn’t include that in the poll.

 

[Tomeru]

The answer to the question "Is Cyberpunk much better than Starfield?" is: Play Deus Ex.

I don't think it aged as well as you think.

 

[twilo99]

Imho it's only matched by some really good pure breed FPSs like Doom and Titanfall.

Gunplay as good as Doom or Titanfall? I doubt it but I’m excited to give it a go..

 

[twilo99]

Right now after they finally finished Cyberpunk? It is much better than Starfield.

Is it finally finished now or does still need some work? It only took them a few years, considering the state it was in at launch, that’s actually not too bad.

 

[xpresstuning]

Is it finally finished now or does still need some work? It only took them a few years, considering the state it was in at launch, that’s actually not too bad.

It's a totally different game and what should have been released.

CD Projekt trudged through a clusterfuck of bad decisions, but at least Cyberpunk 2077 is finally here.

One of the GOATs for sure.

 

[Bungie]

Why would I converse with someone who has been dishonest about Cyberpunk and literally making shit up, which now you've admitted at least good job, in an attempt to argue? I'm not even reading all your weird paragraphs of posts, nvm the quoting pieces part

Firstly you are conversing with me, Secondly your recent post to me reek of insecurities.

I'm not even reading all your weird paragraphs of posts

Even though all your latest post are all about what I say. Which is it? Who cares about your opinion if someone is right or wrong or is supposely a liar or if a game you think is better, When you can't even read their post fully to make a real opinion. Thank you for exposing your lazy agenda posts on here. I keep forgetting you're fairly new to the site. It now all makes sense why you talked about lockpicking for so many post lmao thanks for the laughs!

 

[Macaron]

Firstly you are conversing with me, Secondly your recent post to me reek of insecurities.

Even though all your latest post are all about what I say. Which is it? Who cares about your opinion if someone is right or wrong or is supposely a liar or if a game you think is better, When you can't even read their post fully to make a real opinion. Thank you for exposing your lazy agenda posts on here. I keep forgetting your fairly new to the site. It now all makes sense why you talked about lockpicking for so many post lmao thanks for the laughs!

You're still going huh lol

 

[Meifu]

Oh man I can see this happening.

Not even joking when I say I'm looking forward to playing far habour on updated patch more than I am returning to starfield

 

[MagiusNecros]

Not even joking when I say I'm looking forward to playing far habour on updated patch more than I am returning to starfield

I mean Far Harbor is better then Fallout 4.

 

[Luipadre]

I enjoyed starfield, but after 60 hours i kinda took a break to play more BG3 and cyberpunk expansion. Dunno how im gonna go back after cyberpunk tho

 

[thuGG_pl]

How do choices in Baldurs Gate 3 play out via simulation??

What does it even mean?
Does it need to be via some kind of simulation? If hand written branching, choices, and stories destroy those simulated ones. Then fuck off with that shit simulation.

 

[scydrex]

Yes! No doubt about it. Better in all aspects.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

What does it even mean?
Does it need to be via some kind of simulation? If hand written branching, choices, and stories destroy those simulated ones. Then fuck off with that shit simulation.

When you make a choice, it unfolds in game world via simulation till it reaches the state you had chosen.

It's hand written as well. Just much more involved compared to making a choice by reading text, then game adjusts a few NPCs and dialogue according to your choosing. It's simpler to do so developers are able to put more of them.

Apples to oranges comparison really.

 

[twilo99]

It's a totally different game and what should have been released.

CD Projekt trudged through a clusterfuck of bad decisions, but at least Cyberpunk 2077 is finally here.

One of the GOATs for sure.

Goes to show how rushing a game to market is never really a good idea, so when I hear a game is delayed, I actually take it as a positive..