Noxxera
Member
The true console gamers are ok with playing at 30fps. facts.
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Is this recent generational jump, the lowest ever(PS5/XSX/XSS)?
bitbydeath
Member
3D is graphics?
Are you just thinking resolution or bigger picture here?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
3D change how the camera works and you move your character is 3D space, it’s no where near the same thing as textures or ray tracing BS.
bitbydeath
Member
Why are you limiting graphics to only obscure things? I’m talking about the whole picture and how it interacts. That is what frame rate limits, not just resolution, textures or ray-tracing.
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DaGwaphics
Member
The idea of diminishing returns doesn't really have anything to do with photorealism though. Diminishing returns in 3D graphics started as soon as the medium began, it's been a thing the entire time. It's true that we won't have reached the pinnacle of 3D graphics until we get to photorealism, but that is really separate from the issue of diminishing returns. Say we need 100x more power to achieve real-time photorealism, while the end result will be great it still won't be as big of a difference in comparison to the graphics of today as it would have been going back and comparing a PS1 game to something from a gpu 100x stronger. Thus the visible results of the technological jump would have diminished.
Diminishing returns doesn't mean we won't see improvement though.
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Trogdor1123
Member
No. It’s great. PS3 to 4 was less imo
Crispy Gamer
Member
Playing HFW and Ratchet at 60-90 frames on my OLED I beg to differ lol the jump is huge with the right devs idk what some of you guys are playing to think the jump is small or better yet I see people saying no jump at all we just got more frames, yeah OK the higher textures and fidelity on my screen must be a lie, hell the Destiny 2 update even blew me away 
. Being that I'm not and have never been a PC player might color my experience differently than many here but if someone was ever only a console gamer coming into this generation I don't understand some complaints. My only complaint is we just don't have enough to play like last generation and more games aren't made solely for these consoles its been 3 years I didn't expect cross gen to last for that long.
. Being that I'm not and have never been a PC player might color my experience differently than many here but if someone was ever only a console gamer coming into this generation I don't understand some complaints. My only complaint is we just don't have enough to play like last generation and more games aren't made solely for these consoles its been 3 years I didn't expect cross gen to last for that long.
Noxxera
Member
Great. You hype me up even more for when i can buy a series x or ps5. Reason, i think, cross-gen has lasted so long was because of covid, and the component shortage for the consoles, making them harder to buy. Transition hasn't been smooth and not everyone got the console they wanted even 1-2 years after it launchedPlaying HFW and Ratchet at 60-90 frames on my OLED I beg to differ lol the jump is huge with the right devs idk what some of you guys are playing to think the jump is small or better yet I see people saying no jump at all we just got more frames, yeah OK the higher textures and fidelity on my screen must be a lie, hell the Destiny 2 update even blew me away
Crispy Gamer
Member
I'm finding it hard to disagree with this opinion and previously I thought that jump was huge
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Go look at the thread like …..
Most conversation about graphics is eye candy and make it as realistic as possible, thats people who obsess with graphics all they ever talk about.
I mean people gone crazy over clouds for Horizon DLC and how impressive but did change or improved the the gameplay?
bitbydeath
Member
I’m more interested in dynamic AI.
RDR2 plays just as clunky at 30FPS as it does at 120FPS. Frame rate is no gaming saviour.
HighPoly
Banned
People are saying PS5 PRO will change everything, but PS5 PRO is just a PS5 with some msucles to run the SAME games in higher resolutions and framerates.
PS4 PRO has not changed the level graphics from PS4XONE era...
That console just pushed the PS4 games to a better settings, like from medium to high, or 1080p to 1440p, or 30fps to 60fps.
PS4 PRO has not changed the level graphics from PS4XONE era...
That console just pushed the PS4 games to a better settings, like from medium to high, or 1080p to 1440p, or 30fps to 60fps.
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YeulEmeralda
Member
I wonder how many people on neogaf forgot that the PS4 shipped with an HDD.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
That’s because R* put most their effort towards making their game “immersive“ and “realistic” rather than making game actual fun to control and play.
I’m not type of person who say 30FPS is “unplayable“ to me that’s stupid but 60FPS feels MUCH better to control 100% which makes it game much more smooth to play.
March Climber
Member
They have to remember all of the PC gamers who made fun of this at the time.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
yes, 3D is graphics. But it's also an extra fucking dimension. GTA in 2D plays wildly different than in 3D when it comes to movement, shooting, vehicles, etc. GTA3 completely changed the fucking scene. 3D's impact on gaming being reduced to 'pretty graphics' is dishonest as fuck & you only say that for the sake of argument.
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
So, why haven't we made the leap to 4D yet?
Batiman
Banned
I agree with your criticisms and I love the series. You just have to be in the mood for it. I hate to say it like a negative, but it’s a cinematic experience. A good one.of course the extremely scripted platforming, the climbing that won't let the player fail at any jump, and the handholding at every point are also amazing
also can't forget the slow walking and squeezing through cracks!
and what about that super easy combat on normal, which gets super annoying at higher difficulties! also amazing!
great games! but if I had to give some criticism, it's not quite scripted enough!
if they want to get on that Sega Mega CD FMV level they still have a lot of work to do!
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
....no, it plays less clunky at 120FPS, lol. Less input delay and inputs are more responsive. RDR2 is significantly better played at 60 than at 30.
because of crossgen
We haven't, but VR is the closest thing and I'm all in for it
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bitbydeath
Member
And that’s what I’d rather than 60FPS. Something that shakes things up.
bitbydeath
Member
It’s still clunky. Frame rate doesn’t fix it.
bitbydeath
Member
60FPS isn’t worth the restrictions that could be had in gameplay improvements… IMO
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
but it's LESS clunky.
Frame rate doesn't radically overhaul the momement system of a game but it makes it more responsive. This is an objective fact. if you want it to be 'fixed' go get a mod
bitbydeath
Member
Nah, I don’t even agree on less clunky, it’s the same clunkiness.
Eg. Look around 3mins in.
Frame rate doesn’t solve clunky gameplay.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
the lower input delay doesn't care what you agree on. The game's more responsive and therefore less clunky.
I can do this all day
The Tourmaline Gorilla
Banned
I really think Hellblade 2 will break the cycle and will usher in the true next-gen graphics feats, set the bar and will pretty much be the Crysis of this generation.
Will it remain on top? I doubt it, but it'll never fall too far behind. People will always point at it and say "that was the game that changed everything".
Am I wrong? Possibly. But I sure hope not.
Georges Chiellins
Member
I don't see that much of a difference... but it's probably because I still play on a 10+ years old 1080p tv.
No complaints though, I was blown away by some PS4 games, same with PS5 games.
No complaints though, I was blown away by some PS4 games, same with PS5 games.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This is wrong based on the differences in architecture efficiency alone.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
What restrictions? In fact what I see more often is the high detail graphics and always going towards realism whats restricting them.
Again look at Spider Man 2 graphics thread.
The conversation is not about how they could improved gameplay or having more in interesting interactions, oh god no! It’s mostly about why the game doesn’t look like “next gen”……that’s it!
bitbydeath
Member
Input delay isn’t frame rate related.
NightmareFarm
Member
My thoughts exactly. It's worth the wait.
Then we go a full gen with slightly lower graphics for 60fps modes, and this will be the one generation where we put graphics on standby so that 60fps becomes a locked-in standard going forward. We're already 1/3 of the way done with this generation anyway.
What's another 6 years.
I prefer this gen to 8th gen where the graphic leap was exciting but played worse with sluggish ass 30fps.
bitbydeath
Member
I’ve added a number of examples in this thread already, they’re more extreme side but it shows if devs put more power elsewhere instead of double the frames it could change things dramatically.
Spider-Man 2 is 60FPS.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Yep. No hype over the new venom suit, new traversal abilities, expanded map, instead it's MUH GWAPHIX, while everyone else is excited for it.
Why can't more people be normal about this shit. Who cares if it looks next gen or not. Story's going in a whole ass new direction and we're getting a bunch of new moves and gameplay.
In general this shit is fucking annoying. People were pissed at the Sony Showcase because of the lack of first party games (which really translates to lack of gwaphics & AAA prod values) while i was just vibing
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KungFucius
King Snowflake
Of course it is the smallest jump in perceived quality. Next gen will be even smaller. It will be interesting to see when they actually launch next gen.
ThatOneGrunt
Member
This gen always seemed weak. Once I started seeing all the different modes you could play games in, making you compromise quality over performance, I knew I would rather spend my money on upgrading my video card rather than buy any of these consoles. And I couldn't be happier. Especially since a lot of these console exclusives are also coming to PC. I was never the type to buy a game when its first released. So Things have really been working out pretty good for me.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
30fps games would be more tolerable if developers did what Ready at Dawn did for The Order 1886.
That game felt super smooth and had the latency of 60fps games.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Yeah, I think this has been the worst start to a generation ever.
analog_future
Banned
Mid-gen consoles have spoiled us.
The jump from base Xbox One / PS4 to Series X / PS5 is pretty freaking huge. Definitely larger than the jump from Xbox 360 / PS3 to Xbox One / PS4.
The jump from Xbox One X / PS4 Pro to Series X / PS5 though? Less impactful. You're pretty much gaining 60fps and SSD load times right now vs the Pro consoles.
The jump from base Xbox One / PS4 to Series X / PS5 is pretty freaking huge. Definitely larger than the jump from Xbox 360 / PS3 to Xbox One / PS4.
The jump from Xbox One X / PS4 Pro to Series X / PS5 though? Less impactful. You're pretty much gaining 60fps and SSD load times right now vs the Pro consoles.
NightmareFarm
Member
If you think the jump from PS4 to PS5 was huge, I wonder how you feel about every previous generational leap which were much bigger.
analog_future
Banned
900p-1080p/30fps/low-med settings/5400rpm mechanical hard drive to 1440p-4k/60fps/high settings/ssd drive is a very significant jump.
Again, unquestionably larger than the jump from PS3 to PS4 IMO.
NightmareFarm
Member
o
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NightmareFarm
Member
I was talking more in terms of "in practice" rather than "on paper".
kvltus lvlzvs
Banned
Tfw we will never cross the uncanny valley
analog_future
Banned
So am I.
I think the games we've seen in the first couple years of this generation, like Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, Demon's Souls, and Horizon Burning Shores, are definitely larger leaps over the best we've seen on base PS4 than what we saw in the first few years of PS4 (Killzone, Infamous: Second Son, Bloodborne) compared to the best stuff on PS3.
And again, there is the reality of diminishing returns as well. Games are only going to look so good. It's the same reason that Toy Story 3 is a much more significant leap over Toy Story 2 than Toy Story 4 was over Toy Story 3, for example.
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NightmareFarm
Member
I disagree heavily with all of these examples but if I post screenshot comparisons with sony exclusives I will get banned(last time I got a warning for doing that). Anyway, just know that I disagree. There is only a slightly more polished look its more or less the same as 8th gen.
Yes, diminishing returns plays a part.
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