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[Unicorn]

You can have a college degree and still be a dumbass.

and working class.

 

[Father_Brain]

My understanding is that, while Clinton won a majority of low-income voters and the majority of Trump's supporters were not low-income, low-income voters also had the biggest pro-GOP swing from 2012 of any income bracket.

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[kirblar]

The Overton window in America spans radical corporate bloodletting on right all the way over to milquetoast neoliberalism on the "left." The people can't imagine an alternative is an indictment, not an excuse.

There are literally thousands of ways Democrats could have mitigated the declining fortunes of rural Americans, or at least made the argument publicly so they wouldn't be left standing naked in the wake of Trump.

What an embarrassing, ideologically bankrupt political party. From 1968 to 2008 their platform was broadly "We don't think people of color are all bad," and by the time someone came along with a hopeful vision (in the face of financial collapse), it was hollow and too late.

White voters haven't voted for the Dems since LBJ.

Economic messaging doesn't work when they're all voting purely on white supremacy, and it takes a Nixon or a recession to actually get them to put rational behavior above wanting to be the dominant race.

The idea that there's some magical mystery message that will get through to these people is a fantasy- they've told you time and time again who and what they are. You just refuse to believe them.

 

[Easy_D]

They should have tested IQs. I think there may be a surprising correlation between lack thereof and voting for Trump.

I think the correlation between low EQ and voting Trump (or republican in general) would be stronger.

 

[excelsiorlef]

White voters haven't voted for the Dems since LBJ.

Economic messaging doesn't work when they're all voting purely on white supremacy, and it takes a Nixon or a recession to actually get them to put rational behavior above wanting to be the dominant race.

And in those cases only some of them,Carter and Obama as you pointed out also didn't win the white vote.

 

[Skinpop]

They should have tested IQs. I think there may be a surprising correlation between lack thereof and voting for Trump.

IQ is heavily correlated with income/success though.
Most vote for whatever benefit them the most, not what they think is right ideologically.

 

[cakely]

I can't really say anything about their economic background, but there's a concrete correlation between voting for the trump and being an idiot.

 

[ruxtpin]

Trump voters are all the people on House of Cards without the last name Underwood. They're going to be lied to, fucked, or murdered, yet - for whatever reason - they're completely oblivious to all this and think it won't happen to them, or that next time "he'll be different".

 

[RinsFury]

Trump voters are racist idiots, I could care less where they came from.

 

[Raven117]

Nah, this is probably a case of that liberal bubble thingy, because you're reading news that's actually reporting fact, or a closer than to fact. And it's pretty obvious most of the people here are the same way, but if you've paid attention to any cable news or right-wing media about this subject, you would see that this is definitely distorted to the working class revolt. Not just Fox, but MSNBC and CNN have both had major stories and forums about how the 'working class' switched to Trump for this election, and ironically enough, Mr. Liberal Savior himself, Bernie Sanders, has been spreading this narrative pretty much all the time since the election in one form or another.

I see what you are saying. I just don't see what value can be derived from Cable news (Fox CNN whatever) from saying its a working class revolt instead of the marginal shift in the rust belt (which it was).

 

[Cirion]

Trump voters are racist idiots, I could care less where they came from.

It's really astonishing how such anti-intellectual, empirically false and politically dangerous statements transpire so often in a forum where people otherwise are hellbent on science and reason above anything else.

White voters haven't voted for the Dems since LBJ.

Why do you even make such blatantly false and hyperbolic statements? They add zero.

Economic messaging doesn't work when they're all voting purely on white supremacy

There are reasons for why people are more or less suspectible to racism. Racism is not a biological trait. Racism is NOT an independent variable.

My understanding is that, while Clinton won a majority of low-income voters and the majority of Trump's supporters were not low-income, low-income voters also had the biggest pro-GOP swing from 2012 of any income bracket.

Yes. Yet clintonesque liberals make up strawman-narratives only for tear them down by using questionable presented and interpreted data. "SEE, RICH RACISTS VOTED TRUMP!". No shit. It was never about those people. Same with with the total misinterpretation of "economic anxiety" in this forum and elsewhere among liberals. "Economic anxiety" is mostly about people fearing for their social and economic status, their quality of life, which naturally tends to happen in the middle class more than in the working class, who have little to nothing any way. Same way fascist movements were NOT primarily working class movements, but heavily voted for and supported by the petty-bourgeois. Just look at the voter and supporter structure of the NSDAP prior to the Machtergreifung. Liberals just love to pretend that a socioeconomic framework in which election and political events and processes happen do not exist, which is of course down to the core of the individualist, moralistic core of liberal ideology.

 

[Lord Frieza]

I see what you are saying. I just don't see what value can be derived from Cable news (Fox CNN whatever) from saying its a working class revolt instead of the marginal shift in the rust belt (which it was).

Missing the point. The statement isn't about validity or value of content, but narratives formed. And unfortunately, cable news, and popular politicians can often, and do often, press narratives more so than newspapers and websites, especially among older people.

 

[Shake Appeal]

White voters haven't voted for the Dems since LBJ.

Economic messaging doesn't work when they're all voting purely on white supremacy, and it takes a Nixon or a recession to actually get them to put rational behavior above wanting to be the dominant race.

The idea that there's some magical mystery message that will get through to these people is a fantasy- they've told you time and time again who and what they are. You just refuse to believe them.

You're arguing with someone who is not me. I believe 100% of Americans are racist (because it's impossible not to be in a demonstrably white supremacist society), and I believe Trump voters are extremely, grotesquely racist, even the ones who think they aren't.

That is entirely compatible with the Democratic Party being bad at policy--and messaging, too. As it happens, I don't think there's a magical mystery message that penetrates our ingrained sense that white success is impossible without white supremacy. But I do think there are policies a responsible political party would propose to make almost all people's lives better, even if those policies haven't always polled well. Fuck, Democrats don't even dare propose the ones that do poll well.

My counter to people who want to say "They're all just racists," is always "Okay, now what?" What is your next step? Wait for them all to die, and hope they start having fewer kids? How do you defeat racism-as-policy, or at least make it less politically successful? Because forget Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, or Donald Trump: Republicans have been scooping up all the House seats, statehouses, and governors' mansions for years. Fear, racism, and very real, very true economic anxiety are running the table.

Here comes the Washington Post to remind us that Trump voters are sort of not economically anxious, actually, if you blithely ignore all of the data we have about how shit they have it. Cool. Go run on "we're the less-racists" again. And lose, again.

 

[Sch1sm]

It's really astonishing how such anti-intellectual, empirically false and politically dangerous statements transpire so often in a forum where people otherwise are hellbent on science and reason above anything else.

Was a very general statement, no lie.

Still, one could say that Trump supporters - whether racist, uneducated, or not - have supported -isms with their vote. Of course, they could just be voting according to party lines, or they're fond of other policies that are in line with their beliefs. A vote for an economic move they like for instance, is still a vote for other parts of his agenda like the failed travel ban.

E: You may as well leave posters names in those quotes so they see what you're saying, bud.

 

[Aaronology]

It's really astonishing how such anti-intellectual, empirically false and politically dangerous statements transpire so often in a forum where people otherwise are hellbent on science and reason above anything else.

That statement was clearly a generalization based on the undeniable fact that many if not a majority of Trump's voters are racists and/or idiots. A truth made astonishingly evident, you know, by their voting for Donald Trump.


Edit: Oh. I see your edit. Seems like you're deliberately misconstruing what other posters are saying. The LBJ remark, for instance, was not "blatantly false." You might want to check the last time a D president has received the majority of the white vote before calling out other posters.

 

[Jas]

My understanding is that, while Clinton won a majority of low-income voters and the majority of Trump's supporters were not low-income, low-income voters also had the biggest pro-GOP swing from 2012 of any income bracket.

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Correct...

Hillary won the 50k and under demo 53-41 nationally.

Obama won it in 2012 by 60-38

Looking at Wisconsin, Hillary won the 50k and under demo 49-45, in 2012 Obama won that demo in Wisconsin 62-37

Michigan, she won 53-42...Obama in 2012 won the 50k demo 62-36

Pennsylvania, she won 54-42...Obama in 2012 won it 67-31

 

[RinsFury]

It's really astonishing how such anti-intellectual, empirically false and politically dangerous statements transpire so often in a forum where people otherwise are hellbent on science and reason above anything else.

They voted for a racist demagogue, Trump made no secret of his plans throughout the election. He ran on racism, division, bigotry, xenophobia, sexism, and so many other hateful platforms. So maybe you're right, calling his voters merely racist idiots perhaps isn't giving them their full due.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Correct...

Hillary won the 50k and under demo 53-41 nationally.

Obama won it in 2012 by 60-38

Looking at Wisconsin, Hillary won the 50k and under demo 49-45, in 2012 Obama won that demo in Wisconsin 62-37

Michigan, she won 53-42...Obama in 2012 won the 50k demo 62-36

Pennsylvania, she won 54-42...Obama in 2012 won it 67-31

(The other thing that's flawed about the WaPo analysis is looking at the share of voters in each wage segment, but failing to note that there are far more people in the sub-$50K share than in the others--nearly two-thirds of Americans make less than $50K AGI--so even small changes there return a much larger swing of total votes.)

 

[Cirion]

E: You may as well leave posters names in those quotes so they see what you're saying, bud.

I just copy-pasted quotes from the relevant posts and then used the quote-function. Don't know how I put poster's name in it.

Still, one could say that Trump supporters - whether racist, uneducated, or not - have supported -isms with their vote. Of course, they could just be voting according to party lines, or they're fond of other policies that are in line with their beliefs. A vote for an economic move they like for instance, is still a vote for other parts of his agenda like the failed travel ban.

I'm just annoyed in general with an intelligence-based discourse about politics. First, "Intelligence" is a very questionable metric in general, second, it doesn't help to understand and handle things better at all. To all the people who are thinking that a substantial part of the American population are just too stupid, well, then what, abolish democracy, resign, seek refuge elsewhere?

They voted for a racist demagogue, Trump made no secret of his plans throughout the election. He ran on racism, division, bigotry, xenophobia, sexism, and so many other hateful platforms. So maybe you're right, calling his voters merely racist idiots perhaps isn't giving them their full due.

Isn't this statement at odds with the supposed findings of the WaPo-article, by the way? If well-off white racists voted Trump, maybe they aren't so dumb after all?

 

[KillLaCam]

What counts as working class though? Like I'd consider welding a working class job but you can get like 100k depending on the type of welding. I wouldnt really consider salary in things like this

 

[TheMan]

Hell, NPR said as much even before the election, but most people ran with the same misconception.

 

[III-V]

From the graphics posted, it does appear that white people across the board, irregardless of yearly income voted for the donald. Having a college education did reduce the chance that you voted for the donald.

thanks, white people

 

[Aaronology]

If well-off white racists voted Trump, maybe they aren't so dumb after all?

Trump is a "billionaire" and the President of the United States! He's clearly an intelligent individual.


Clearly.

 

[Opto]

Dems can work a message to win over enough whites (not all of them, that's impossible). Talk about how the republicans promised tax cuts would make everyone wealthy, yet rural towns are crumbling. Remind the nostalgic set that it was their hard work that gave the rich their fortune, and in return for their sweat, toil and long hours, the rich abandoned them for yachts and towers. Remind them that they were the ones that dug the mines and sacrificed their lungs, and when ming companies decided to invest in other projects, they didn't reinvest in the communities that gave them their fortunes.

Not to say ignore issues like equal rights for LGBT, criminal justice reform, and voting rights, just when you're in super white parts of Ohio, direct the message to what the audience is.

 

[Cocaloch]

Ah yes let's use an outdated and fundamentally flawed system to measure.

IQ is a bad metric. Both my parents with genius level IQs voted for Donald. Why? Probably InfoWars. How does infowars control the minds of "intelligent" people? I can't answer that. It hurts to see it happen.

Pretty much all social metrics will have some sort of flaw. IQ is worse than lots of them, but that's partially because it's trying to get at something particularly poorly defined.
The issue here is more doctrinal than modal.

 

[NullPointer]

They spelled effluent wrong.

 

[EdibleKnife]

And yet I'll still be fucked with about having no empathy for the working class when I give Trump voters a hard time