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[Saturnman]

Remove your nostalgia goggles, it's the truth.

Took me a while to warm up to JL, but I am starting to like it. I still think the first season is a bit weak, but by season 2, things get better. Not all characters are good, but I think there is some great chemistry between them and some of the villains are awesome (my favorite, Vandal Savage, truly shines in an episode where he is not evil, ironically).

Batman has aged badly in comparison. Episodes seem empty because of the reduced cast. Animation is of lower quality. And the retro look is just too dark, screw style when it becomes distracting. I'll take neutral modern era anytime.

 

[karasu]

Their version of Superman is impotent, and has a really lame voice, but it's a pretty cool show. I dig the new direction it's taking. Character development will be sacrificed though.

 

[Saturnman]

Superman does get beaten up a lot, but if he were omnipotent, there wouldn't be a need for the JL.

 

[karasu]

screw omnipotent, that's what Batman is. Supes should at the very least be able to hold his own. I mean he DOES have a solo career, so you'd think he'd be able to take on a baddy or two.

 

[Saturnman]

I'm amazed the Flash could fight crime on his own prior to joining the League.

 

[Willco]

Umm, no.

Especially the Nu-JLA with those cheesy rock riffs. Just awful.

 

[Mugen]

JLA is great but come on. Batman TAS is top-notch.

 

[Luscious LeftFoot]

Of the few episodes I've seen, Wonder Woman always seems to be the central character, with Superman getting his ass mollywhopped.

At least in Batman, he gives as good as he takes.

 

[Error Macro]

This thread is blasphemy.




Also, nostalgia goggles are obsolete. The underground has developed new nostalgia contacts, enabling us to see which is the better cartoon series, without those annoying headaches from wearing the goggles for too long at a time.

 

[The Faceless Master]

JLA had a chance to be better, they had a great thing going on, then they had to screw it up with the 30 minute format in JLU... still good though...

 

[way more]

I laugh at that very notion.

And the retro look is just too dark, screw style when it becomes distracting. I'll take neutral modern era anytime.

This is a false statement.

 

[Saturnman]

I hear a lot of growls, but few actual retorts.

Can any of you actually rationalize where I'm 'wrong'?

 

[Dan]

Who would waste time rationalizing why Batman is far superior when they could be busy watching their B:TAS Volume 1 DVDs?

 

[Saturnman]

Awesome retort. Maybe I should go watch JL all night, then I'll win.

Next!

 

[explodet]

Remove your nostalgia goggles, it's the truth.

It's opinion.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Barry bonds hit the shit out of that ball.

 

[jett]

...Back the fuck up.

Nearly every single cartoon(specially shitty saturday morning crap most of you seem to like) based on a comic book is fucking garbage with exception of Batman: The Animated Series.

 

[way more]

And the retro look is just too dark, screw style when it becomes distracting. I'll take neutral modern era anytime.

Allow me to retort. You're saying that the dark style is worse then neutral futuristic? Batman TAS was like an extension of Burton's Batman, complete with the style. I've watched Justice League and it's not bad by any means but it defintaley lacks style, something Batman has always been about. He has noir roots, the dark city, shadows and classic cars were perfect.

And the characters are better. TAS was great at seperating Bruce Wayne from Batman, and I've yet to see and network television come close to as complex a villian as Two-face.

Justice league also seems to be going for some sort of retro kitch thing, which I hope is just a fad because its really starting to piss me off. I guess is you prefer pastels to darker shades I really can't change your mind.

 

[Brian Fellows]

Batman is the only decent character in JLA.

 

[J2 Cool]

LOL. I'd really like to know what your on man. Anyway, Batman's style a negative?? Are you kidding. It's one of the most atmoshperic cartoons ever created and its done perfectly. That whole show from start to finish is simply art. Not to mention the show featured brilliant music and pacing. And 2 part episodes like Feat of Clay had their own haunting theme music for those episodes alone. The villains and their stories were fleshed out so well. My personal favorites being Two Face and Clay. The show was even clever enough to be able to have actual surprise twists in the story. Bruce Wayne's whole character is done so well to. You get a feel for the man inside and out of costume. Every element of Batman was included as perfectly as you could have hoped in an animated series.

You want to tell me Batman's aged badly when the popuplar voiced being echoed is its aged like fine wine? And your argument is Justice League has mostly good characters with great chemistry and cool villains? You're the guy who has to prove something cause in mine and most other eyes, Batman:TAS owns Justice League.

 

[Ripclawe]

Remove your nostalgia goggles, it's the truth.

You have sinned sir... SINNED!!!
TAS had better stories(superior writing), better music, better atmosphere and no pussy superman! TAS is the standard to which all comic book animated series strive to reach.

 

[Shinobi]

Batman owns JL, it's that simple. Having said that, I like JL a lot. Same with Batman Beyond. But Batman TAS has stood the test of time, something JL's gonna have to do.

 

[Saturnman]

Now that's more like it.

Linking Batman TAS to the Tim Burton vision is not a positive in my book. It's good for continuity's sake, but that vision was not the best it could be. And Batman movies degerated with each sequel, IMHO, and yes, that includes the awful Batman Returns from Tim Burton.

If hyperboles are your thing, I can defuse the expected retort that I like the campy Batman from 60's. That's not the case. In my view, there are two extreme and opposite visions of Batman and hopefully a third way can be found to do the character's justice. Will it be the upcoming movie? I don't know, but I can hope.

I like Batman, I like how he is like a James Bond and makes up for his lack of superpowers with gadgets (as long as they don't go overboard). I also like he is more of a thinking man and can act like a detective. One thing that is a definite turn-off is Robin and Batgirl and whatever sidekick they can latch on to Batman.

Batman in JL is like a Batman with the fat taken off. You get the same character with his stenghts intact. He has to share the spotlight with his peers, but that's definitely better than having Robin and Batgirl around. I also like the way Superman might charge forward, all guns blazing, but if it often comes down to Batman's grey matter and detective work that save the day. An interesting irony is that Batman in JL is the role of the rebel, the outsider, kinda like Wolverine to the X-men, but without the melodrama.

And yes, I prefer pastel colors over black and shadows everywhere.

With all that said, both shows are kids shows at the end of the day and even the staunchest Batman fans will have to admit to that. Batman has no edge in terms of more mature storylines and you have to be blind not to see that animation has evolved in a significant way in JL compared to Batman.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Batman owns JL, it's that simple. Having said that, I like JL a lot. Same with Batman Beyond. But Batman TAS has stood the test of time, something JL's gonna have to do.

that's a much tougher question....

BATMAN BEYOND vs JUSTICE LEAGUE

and take off your nostalgia goggles....

 

[Shinobi]

Hard to say. Both shows haven't been around that long, and I've only seen most of the Batman Beyond episodes two or three times. I think both BB and JL have had some weak shows, but some really strong shows too. And their movies are the crowning acheivement for both series. I'd say Return of the Joker and Starcrossed rank right up there with Mask of the Phantasm. That to me is a far better question...how would you rank those three movies.

BTW, the nolstagia goggles line is as old as Adam West. Find some new eyewear.

Now that's more like it.

Linking Batman TAS to the Tim Burton vision is not a positive in my book.

Linking anything to that overrated hack isn't a positive in my book. I was gonna mention that before, but I was running short of time. That said they took the only good part of the Burton movies (the style and look of Gotham), expanded upon it, then added some actual characters and storylines with a bit of logic.

I also like the way Superman might charge forward, all guns blazing, but if it often comes down to Batman's grey matter and detective work that save the day.

I'm not a big Superman fan, but that's one aspect I get sick of seeing. It basically makes Supes out to be a complete idiot, or someone who can't retain prior knowledge for more then five seconds. I realize why that's done of course...if they gave Supes any semblance of smarts, he'd never be touched in any battle. So having him always go in head first balances things out a bit. It's a bit of a plot device, but whatever. I just like Batman's role as being the brains behind the outfit in terms of figuring out the more complicated stuff, along with the relationship he has with Supes and Diana. Starcrossed was incredible because you got to see all the characters at their lowest moment and at their best, and how they reacted and related to each other in both. The battles are merely a matter of course to me...how they get to them is what I like.

 

[Tamanon]

It seemed that the Better World version of Supes(Captain Lobotomy) was what he'd be like with more forethought and planning thrown in with the power.

Not sure I like that version, was a cross between Bats and Supes.

And I enjoy JLA/JLU more currently than Batman TAS. I can't get into some of the episodes from the first season DVDs, they seem kinda dull, but it's still a great series

 

[karasu]

Superman does have his own comic, and in it he is NOT a moron. He's smart as hell, not only does he come from a long line of scientist, not only is he an award winning investigative reporter (pretty much a detective), but like, his brain is amped because of his power. Though they've toned it down alot, he should be nowhere near as dumb as the WB makes him out to be. Superman and Batman shouldn't be a case of Brains versus Brawn, the characters rely on equal measures of both. Batman doesn't think his opponents into submission, he beats the shit out of them because he's apparently one of the worlds greats Martial Artist. Superman doesn't smash every problem he encounters, if detective work or any related tactics are needed, he uses them. The WB writers approach this shit like children, where it's either one or other.

 

[Shinobi]

Agreed...they need to balance things out a little more.

 

[darkiguana]

As much as I have enjoyed JL and JLU, Batman:TAS is better than both. Batman had a great supporting cast(yes, even Robin and Batgirl) and the villians were much more fleshed out. Someone mentioned Clayface and Two-Face, I would also add Mr Freeze to that list. The first episode with him was one the best out of the whole series, IMO. They did use a lot from the Tim Burton movies, but I agree with the above poster. They took all of the good stuff he did and left out the crap that he did. They even poked fun at Joel Schumacher's crapfest. Also without Burton's movies and their popularity there probably would not have been a Batman: TAS.

JL was not that great the first season, but the second season was great from start to finish. They gave the JL some real threats this time. I also enjoyed them showing the Batman/Supes relationship. Also the GL/Hawkgirl relationship was done great as well, especially Starcrossed. JLU has been good so far too.

Superman:TAS was not as good as Batman or JL. However the 2 Darkseid episodes(Apokolops Now! and Legacy) are 2 of my favorite episodes out of all of the Bruce Timm DC cartoons.

Batman Beyond was good too. I liked the relationship between young Terry and old Bruce. And Return of the Joker is one of my favorite animated movies of all time. The Joker was downright scary in that movie.

darkiguana

 

[karasu]

The characters were more fleshed out because that show was on the air for like 30 years lol.

 

[Willco]

Superman is just weak, dudes. The only cool Superman cartoon is when Michael Ironside dressed up as Thanos kicked his ass and killed that stupid detective. Tear jerker.

 

[Shinobi]

The characters were more fleshed out because that show was on the air for like 30 years lol.

Well Batman TAS was also good enough to be on air that long, heh. Hopefully the same is true for JL.

 

[karasu]

Superman is just weak, dudes. The only cool Superman cartoon is when Michael Ironside dressed up as Thanos kicked his ass and killed that stupid detective. Tear jerker.

Bullshit Mr Hand Man! His cartoons, movies, and comics suck because he's never portrayed accurately. Everybody is so full of propaganda, trying to paint him as the new Jesus and shite, like they do with the Silver Surfer. It's so bad that the freaking cartoons are afraid of letting him go out and fight crime at night (wtf kind of crime fighter is limited to broad daylight?) all because they want him to be seen as bright and fun! They only let you see the man at night if it's an alternate universe, or some Superman gone bad wonkiness. :roll:

Ten years from now I will give the world the perfect Superman Story. A feature length animated tale that will fill the likes of you with girly glee. No "my characer is so great and iconic "propaganda will get in the way of my story. <nerd> I see superman, like Batman sees Gotham.</nerd>

Well Batman TAS was also good enough to be on air that long, heh. Hopefully the same is true for JL.

haha good point.

 

[Dan]

Bullshit Mr Hand Man! His cartoons, movies, and comics suck because he's never portrayed accurately. Everybody is so full of propaganda, trying to paint him as the new Jesus and shite, like they do with the Silver Surfer. It's so bad that the freaking cartoons are afraid of letting him go out and fight crime at night (wtf kind of crime fighter is limited to broad daylight?) all because they want him to be seen as bright and fun! They only let you see the man at night if it's an alternate universe, or some Superman gone bad wonkiness. :roll:

Wait... so if he's not portrayed accurately in "cartoons, movies and comics", what does that leave exactly? Your mind? I'm really not sure that's a good defense of Superman's character.

 

[karasu]

history! He's a character with a solid base, it's just that it's being ignored. Writers keep trying to turn him into things he isn't, like how they tried to make him oh so cool in the 90's by killing him and giving him a mullet. He's been stuck in hell for ages. There have been a few bright spots in between though. But generally speaking, instead of simply writing interesting stories, people keep trying to rework the guy and put him in different boxes. They've been taking powers away, powering him up, sending him back to Krypton 92 times, giving him electro powers, on and on and on and on. They've done everything but tell interesting stories IMO.