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Like all of us, Kratos needed to grow up sometime.

nikolino840

Member

The cure for toxic masculinity is growth, as the ascendant new God of War franchise demonstrates. It doesn’t rewrite its history, and neither should we. You shouldn’t ignore the shameful shit you did in your past; if you’ve grown, you should lean in to the contrast and be able to say that’s not who you are anymore. And if you’re lucky enough to be a father, you have to show your child it is not only possible, but necessary, to grow.

As Kratos says, we must be better.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
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Matt_Fox

Member
(whispered admission) I preferred the previous God Of Wars games.

The gameplay went from being really fast, fun and arcadey (like Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden) to being a generic third-person adventure (like Tomb Raider and Uncharted).

Give me gameplay over cut-scenes / story any day!
 

Mista

Banned
BOY! If this isn’t a stupid article I don’t know what is

I see what he wants to deliver but not like that..
 

cormack12

Gold Member
This guy was full of toxic masculinity?

Dh2zzrcW0AIeKJx.jpg


I think not. Like most of this bullshit, this pieces are produced from fear/bitterness when they were no doubt bullied as kids by the bigger/more popular boys. And they've basically bought into the mantra of all men are assholes. So many of these bleeding heart pieces where the authors use them as pedestals to pontificate about how much they cry, or how 'still waters run so deep'. Fuck off nobheads. You can appreciate poignancy or a sensitive moment without becoming an emotional wreck or having an epiphany about 'toxic masculinity'.

Were we toxic? Was he?

I’d argue that yes, we were.

I got a little weepy during this scene. Like, “Cat’s Cradle” weepy.

But if my son was a teenager (he’s only two right now) and he played it, what would I think? If I sat there and watched him delight in violence against women or wanton sadism, what would I say?

I would say a lot.

You sound like a grandMa. Part of the reason of growing up when we did was we wouldn't act like such prudish assholes when we grew up. We'd know it was just a videogame and we all turned out fine. We'd understand - how dare you rob your fucking kid of those experiences because all of a 'sudden', you know better from lessons. After gorging on the experiences yourself you hypocritical assmunch.


They won't go back because people bought the game. Because those types of games are in and it made bank. It didn't suddenly attract millions of people because it was about a Dad you raging maniac.
 

PocoJoe

Banned
What about toxic femaletity?! (what ever is the woman version of the word, as men are always blamed but not women so I dont know it)

Or LPGTnity?

Their lives must be really really sad if some "alpha male character" ruins their day, fuck them all with a lightning bolt I say.

the irony of these things is:

Women/feminazis rage about masculinity / being a man.

but also:

Women complain that "men must be men!" and leave a man when he shows some emotions and feelings, sees "less manly" men as weaklings or just as a friends. I have met/dated way too many women that say "I like when men have their opinions!" and then they start to cry when telling that I dont like how you act/treat me or even if I just dont like something stupid as some tv show they like. So they don't like it because they cry, but they say they like it when "men are manly" which makes them cry? MADNESS

Then when "man comes and takes me" they are so happy, until the madness of "why this caveman wont treat me like a lady when I want it?" starts

Fucking women* and their bullshit where they say what they want while it is really the opposite what they really want.

So solution should be: Just ignore people that get offended by masculinity or being normal heterosexual person.

*not all, but way too many.
 

-Troid-

Banned
GOW 4(or 2018 or whatever) is like the oscar bait of videogames. People who grew up playing games in the PS2 era are probably parents now so they specifically added a father/son dynamic to the game to pander to people. Part of the whole marketing for the game was "Kratos has grown up/matured; this for mature gamers the old games were for angsty teens."

Having parental themes would be a novel idea if it hadn't already been done in other games better (Like Witcher 3 or even Last of Us), but in this game it feels shoed-in to a series it doesn't fit specifically to appeal to gamer dads.

Don't get me wrong I'm not shaming anyone who likes the game or is a gamer dad, but the main premise of the game itself along with the way they sold the idea to people is extremely patronizing in my opinion.

Also the gameplay is meh.
 
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Werewolf Jones

Gold Member
Kratos had good character growth but old Kratos was a more entertaining character the new Kratos is a better character in terms of writing quality though.

Just do what you want don't let a single game dictate your decision to change your life lmao.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
I loved god of war 4. I just accepted as it is.

Good lord though articles like this are the problem of videogame journalism.

Another unknown site trying to grab views for controversial headlines. Nothing to see here.
 

HarryKS

Member
Kratos had his revenge/catharsis at the end of God of War 3. His character evolution makes sense in God of War PS4.

I always thought of him as a guy who was fighting the MAN. He first accepted them, embraced them, got tricked, got angry at them, took revenge, moved to something else.
 
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GreyHorace

Member
I liked the new God of War. It was a nicely done story of a man coming to terms with his violent past and make a new life for himself with a son he has trouble connecting with. The way their relationship develops is one of the highlights of the game.

But Jesus Goddamn Christ, fuck off with that 'fixing toxic masculinity' bullshit. If the game was all about that, why didn't they make a walking sim where Kratos and Atreus try to solve conflicts without violence rather than killing every enemy on sight? In fact, why the hell would you make a God of War game set in Norse mythology, probably the manliest epic cycle of myths in the world next to the Greeks?

I've said it before, I play games for the escapism and not to be lectured to. I can separate myself just fine from the videogames where I play as a mass murdering psychopath like Trevor Phillips in GTA 5. Only snowflakes get triggered by the media they consume and let it affect them on a personal level.
 

LordKasual

Banned
Lmao fuck that. I love being a toxic male. Not digging the new pussy bitch male culture.
738933.jpg


Anyway, once again people miss the point entirely.

I'd argue that the problem with the new Kratos isn't that he "grew up". The problem is that the growth came out of absolutely nowhere.

The transition from murderous rampaging chaos monster to "daddy raising son" happened completely off-screen, to the point the game had to actually drive home the fact that the current story was actually canon to 1-3.


The truth is that the game itself was changed to be more in line with what formula SELLS. Strong guy + Vulnerable sidekick = heartwrenching story, companionship, and immersion.

Bioshock Infinite, Last of Us, and now God of War. And Kratos was used because he's a Sony IP. Only difference is that instead of a protector man and a vulnerable woman/little girl, it's Kratos and a young boy. But nothing much changes.

Everything else was secondary. And everyone knows. So when people claim "PROGRESSION", it feels disingenuous, and rightly so. The narrative came second to the formula they were clearly chasing. It was a byproduct.
 
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This is what I thought of the God of War Reboot

Since the arrival of the original God of War on the PS2 in 2005, I've been a huge fan of the franchise. I've loved them all, from the mainline entries, to the PSP side stories, and yes, even Ascension. There are so many things I enjoy about the tale and universe of Kratos. The backdrop of Greek mythology, the thumping soundtracks, the brutal and fun - if not particularly deep - combat, the incredible production values and more all combine to make a pretty irresistible package for me. So when I learned that Santa Monica Studio was developing a reboot of the franchise, I was obviously excited and also a bit concerned about what direction the new vision may take this iconic character. From what little I had seen prior to playing, I wasn't certain this was going to be the path I wanted for the series, so with anticipation and a bit of trepidation, I picked up the controller.

As expected with this developer and franchise, the visuals are a real treat. I'm a PC gamer as well, but I'm always surprised how much the excellent talent within the better console developers can squeeze out of (relatively) under-powered hardware. Most everything from a technical standpoint is really stunning on the base PS4. Everything is sharp, wonderfully detailed and animated, and really one of the highlights for Sony's 4th home console. Artistically things weren't always quite as impressive for me. While there are some really nice environments and creatures, the game suffers from an inconsistent look at times, and I felt the world didn't always feel like a fully realized, believable locale. And the recurrence of some enemies diminished their impact. It would have been nice to see a little less cut/paste, in particular in regards to the trolls.

In terms of the actual nuts and bolts of the game, the changed camera offered a more intimate perspective as it dropped down over the shoulder, which was enjoyable, but it also really changed the fundamentals of combat as a result of your smaller field of view. Gone is the ability to see all threats on screen which could often result in blind-side attacks. SMS attempted to remedy this by offering visual indicators of approaching danger, but things still felt a bit clumsy to manage when encountering rooms full of enemies at times. Kratos' new weapon, the Leviathan axe, was a true joy to use. There was a real heft and solidity to it (and Kratos himself) , whether throwing it or in up-close combat. It was really satisfying to wield. They most certainly got the feel right in terms of the weapon - beautifully realized.

I did also have some significant issues with this reboot that diminished my opinion of the game unfortunately. In the first place, I really disliked the whole concept of redeeming Kratos as a character. Listening to him give morality lessons about not walking a path of vengeance to Baldur was so out of character and off-putting. While I get that they wanted to take things in a new direction, it felt almost like they were apologizing for Kratos of old, and that really rubbed me the wrong way. God of War has always been unapologetically violence, sex, and rock and roll, and not about reflection and growth as a person (god). Kratos doesn't need to grow, he needs to kill and bring unholy vengeance. That's what made him fun and a perfect avatar for the most common element of gaming since the very beginning - killing foes. I'm not saying that there is no room for other experiences in gaming, far from it. I love all types of experiences on this canvas of interactive media, but I have no interest in seeing a Kratos that has any focus on self-improvement. It's just not what I want out of this character or franchise.

Bringing in a child felt out of place with the identity established in the series thus far as well. By incorporating a father and son dynamic and placing it at the center of things, they took Kratos - and me - too close to the real world which removed me from the brilliant fantasy of the previous games. Domesticated Kratos - stay-at-home-dad Kratos - isn't Kratos at all, as far as I'm concerned. Dragging a kid around in a franchise entitled God of WAR is utterly ridiculous and hilarious to me. Aside from the fact that I thought Artreus was out of place with the DNA of the series, his performance on-stage was also thoroughly annoying. He vacillated between comically respectful, as he over-emphasized "sir" when responding "yes sir" to his father, and an absolute smug, snotty brat. I just felt that he was too inconsistent, whether or not I wanted him there in the first place. And the voice acting in general was not what it should have been. Kratos himself was so gruff and aloof that it came across as parody or caricature rather than genuine. In a game that was striving to ground Kratos, I thought they missed the mark. Despite my problems with the acting and much of the dialogue, there was one line that I did really love when Kratos told Artreus, "Do not concern yourself with what might be and focus on what is." But that is a blip in an otherwise disappointing narrative, both in content and delivery.

I also thought that the emphasis on collectibles, crafting and upgrades was excessive and ultimately pretty meaningless, which reminds me of how I felt in general about the game design here. It felt like AAA by-the-book, like a bloated hodgepodge of what a modern game "ought" to have. It deferred too strongly to conventions of the moment which I felt stifled any real hopes of standing out with any sense of individuality. Things never coalesced into a cohesive whole for me. It had some of the flavors of Ubisofts lesser (and most common) work, which for me, is a big turn off. It just felt too enamored with qualities that a modern gaming blockbuster should possess that it failed to distinguish itself amid an ever more homogenous AAA landscape. The sum feeling is a paint-by-numbers "masterpiece". For all its flash and spectacle, it was ultimately easily digestible and forgettable.

To be clear, I'm not saying the game has nothing of merit. It was obviously made by some talented people and it is fun to play as well as easy on the eyes most of the time. But talent without the refining fire of passion yields a facsimile of greatness only. It possesses many of the hallmarks of greatness, but it is frustratingly, obviously and devastatingly missing the crucial element. I may be harder on this because of my affinity for the previous adventures I've taken with this character, but this new incarnation does not reach the heights of Olympus. In fact, I replayed God of War 3 right after finishing this out of curiosity - I could have played any of the older entries though - and it only cemented my view. It fails relative to its own heritage, and that is really disappointing to a long-time fan. It feels like all the spirit and edge has been lost. The real Kratos is an anti-establishment rebel who Santa Monica Studio has sadly neutered in favor of a guy living meekly as an aged conformist. I mean, THIS is their vision for Kratos, the God of War?!?

kUzOv2O.jpg


Come on! A muted 4/5.
 

Skyr

Member
I wonder how many of todays so called gaming journalists were bullied as a children by little boys just for being the smelly autistic outsider kid?

Now they project that on acutal adults and screech toxic masculinity to get their revenge.
This pathetic generation of manbabys needs to shut the fuck up.

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ThatGamingDude

I am a virgin
....
Hold up
If they're calling him a misogynist before hand
Wouldn't this be a road to redemption type thing that would point out cancel culture is bull shit?

This isn't fact by any means, but I get the feeling that the same people who run around "cancelling," people for their past are the same ones writing these types of articles

P.S.
I don't care about this toxic masculinity talk; some people are shitty, some people are awesome, it's a condition of being a human, not what gender you are.
Hence anger management classes are coed.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
....
Hold up
If they're calling him a misogynist before hand
Wouldn't this be a road to redemption type thing that would point out cancel culture is bull shit?

This isn't fact by any means, but I get the feeling that the same people who run around "cancelling," people for their past are the same ones writing these types of articles

P.S.
I don't care about this toxic masculinity talk; some people are shitty, some people are awesome, it's a condition of being a human, not what gender you are.
Hence anger management classes are coed.

Yes. Exactly right.

Except these people dont give humans the chance to have a redemption arc. They just shriek and start petitions.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Kratos had his revenge/catharsis at the end of God of War 3.

And that's exactly where the series should've ended. Ascension felt forced, no one ever asked for/needed it, while GoW4 could easily be a completely fresh IP, with new protagonist, with nothing tied to original GoW, with more developed/interesting father and son relationship, it could've been essentially another TLoU-caliber IP.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
It’s really hard to see how much people misunderstand Kratos in original God of War series, I mean his revenge didn’t even started until the 2nd game. Kratos worked for Athena for 10 years to get free from his nightmare and her final task to kill Ares, Kartos himself never looked for revenge until 2nd game.
 

HarryKS

Member
And that's exactly where the series should've ended. Ascension felt forced, no one ever asked for/needed it, while GoW4 could easily be a completely fresh IP, with new protagonist, with nothing tied to original GoW, with more developed/interesting father and son relationship, it could've been essentially another TLoU-caliber IP.

I don't know. I liked it. I thought the whole thing was done artfully. I don't think the new GOW panders to any SJW crowd. On the contrary, it harkens to a very deeply rooted sense of what it means to be a man roaming about in a savage land. A man weighed by his past but who has a new purpose. Kratos shows depth.

Ascension is a business decision. The previous GOW formula had run out of steam by that point. To be fair, it was olso a prequel of sorts.

This one's fresh, even-tempered, inspired. It's built like a bildungsroman. It didn't need to be a new IP since they handled it so well.
 

Fake

Member
Embarrassing article. Worst than reading venturebeat review about Half-Life VR.
davidjaffe davidjaffe don't take us wrong, we love your work.
 
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Saber

Gold Member
Legitime question...how can someone be paid to write an article that its not even worth of being toilet paper?

WHile everything now is toxic masculinity, toxic feminism is gonna eat us all...

Don't worry. Female toxicity and hate of men are totally cool.
 

Enjay

Banned
All this is going to really do is give people another bulletpoint as to why the old God of War was better than the new norse one.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
Senua showed how you can drop a new IP with Norse. I just dont like devs slapping a franchise name on a game that they've changed beyond its core values. Like uncharted 4.

It's just cheap
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
If being a pussy bitch male means truly liking women, being kind to women and thinking women should have equal rights, I’m more than happy to be a pussy bitch male.

Translation: "I let my girlfriend's boyfriend peg me on occasion."

Jokes aside, "toxic masculinity" is just an idiotic term used to denigrate men and label general asshole and benign actions as being associated with masculinity. Just like the concepts of Power + Prejudice = Racism and Priviledge are bullshit.
 
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