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Man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice (GAF - I just don't see the point anymore)

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The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Bah, he's a robber, irredeemable scum, he's lucky no-one shot him while he was violating their homes

Mind you, he definitely should do some time, but seriously, there is a category of crimes that we reserve life sentences for, and robbery isn't one of them.
 

Lax Mike

Neo Member
162 years is pretty messed up. I don't really see how a sentence that long benefits anyone, including the state.

Benefits to Society-

-It keeps a dangerous criminal off the streets, one who has on multiple occasions put lives at risk, and had committed a number of armed robberies.

-Sets an example to try and discourage these types of crimes in the future.


Yes I think it's excessive, and there's the a chance that he'll profoundly change while in prison, but I can also see the reasons for such a lengthy sentence.

And who's to say that 162 years necessarily means life? With medical advances and taxpayer money, who's to say that he won't live past that? But that's all the optimism I have to offer for him. I can't say I'm sorry for him because of what he did, but it's too bad he was put in a situation where he thought crime was the best path to take.
 

Fusebox

Banned
And who's to say that 162 years necessarily means life? With medical advances and taxpayer money, who's to say that he won't live past that? But that's all the optimism I have to offer for him.

Lol, that's taking the word 'optimism' to the extreme.
 

alterno69

Banned
I've had burglars brake into my house and steal from me a couple of times, he gets no sympathy from me.

You know a simple theft could very well ruin someones life? What if they steal from a struggling bussines, or someones life savings?
Fuck people like him.
 

kswiston

Member
Sentences should be concurrent. If the guy committed armed robbery seven times give him the maximum sentence for the offence. That's why it is there. Consecutive sentences are unjust.

What would those variables be Natural?

In some places it seems to largely fall on which one of these you match up with.

ColorSwatches.jpg
 
He should do some time, but the details of the article would have you believe he was the unlucky fall guy in a group of robbers.
Our system is absolutely fine, as long as you do not commit a crime.
This is some of the most asinine reasoning ever.
 

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
It is not clear why prosecutors decided to throw the full weight of the law at Davis.
Florida, though, has a history of "very zealous" prosecutions, according to Marc Mauer, executive director of the Washington-based Sentencing Project, which advocates for reform in the criminal-justice system.

For example, Florida leads in the number of juveniles sentenced to life without parole for lesser crimes than murder, sentences the Supreme Court declared to be unconstitutional in 2010. Florida and other states are now trying to determine how to resentence or grant parole to inmates affected by that ruling.

According to a recent study by the Pew Center on the States, Florida was first, among the 35 states reporting, in increases in time served in its prisons from 1990 to 2009.

In one recent, highly controversial Florida sentencing, Marissa Alexander, an African-American woman in Jacksonville with no previous criminal record, was sentenced to 20 years for firing a pistol twice into the air while trying to ward off an attack by her abusive husband. Denied the protection of Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law, the 31-year-old mother of three was convicted of aggravated assault, a felony, and given the mandatory sentence for anyone who fires a gun in commission of the felony.

Such sloppy reporting. They're conflating Florida state law with federal law. Mr. Davis was convicted in a federal court for violations of federal law, but everything else they talk about in the excerpt above deals with issues of state law, including the case involving Ms. Alexander.
 

Unicorn

Member
I assume GAF just trawls Florida news to find something to post, since that is all I see posted anymore.

It certainly isn't because Florida is just that awful, right?
 
ConstitutionDayPic.PNG


Another massive win from the US legal system. And you wonder why the rest of the world mocks your bloated shennanigans. How ridiculous is this?
 
I assume GAF just trawls Florida news to find something to post, since that is all I see posted anymore.

It certainly isn't because Florida is just that awful, right?

Yo, I didn't even try - front page of Yahoo.

ConstitutionDayPic.PNG


Another massive win from the US legal system. And you wonder why the rest of the world mocks your bloated shennanigans. How ridiculous is this?

The US is NOT the only country fucking up with legal matters. Actually look at legal issues in other countries. Their residents complain about many of them as well.
 
Yo, I didn't even try - front page of Yahoo.



The US is NOT the only country fucking up with legal matters. Actually look at legal issues in other countries. Their residents complain about many of them as well.

As a student of international law based in Europe, your legal system is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my entire life. It manages to be even more shocking and dysfunctional than the one in Saudi Arabia, because at least theirs can be excused considering the country they live in. As someone who has visited and loves your culture and most of your past history and hopes to establish a home there, I must confess I do not understand how you are not shamed by the past 30 years of your country's history. There is something deeply wrong with the way you guys do things there, and your legal, educational and healthcare systems happen to be the places where it is most evident.
 
As a student of international law based in Europe, your legal system is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my entire life. It manages to be even more shocking and dysfunctional than the one in Saudi Arabia, because at least theirs can be excused considering the country they live in. As someone who has visited and loves your culture and most of your past history and hopes to establish a home there, I must confess I do not understand how you are not shamed by the past 30 years of your country's history. There is something deeply wrong with the way you guys do things there, and your legal, educational and healthcare systems happen to be the places where it is most evident.

I'll give you educational and healthcare but I don't agree with you on the legal being the worst, even considering egregious miscarriages of justice over the years. There are other countries that have done just as badly.
 
I'll give you educational and healthcare but I don't agree with you on the legal being the worst, even considering egregious miscarriages of justice over the years. There are other countries that have done just as badly.

I'm not saying it's the worst. I'm saying it doesn't work properly. Same for education or healthcare. You guys have the best hospitals in the world, as well as some of the best universities, and the principles which guide your legal system are fundamentaly solid and strong, it's just the way you prioritized wealth over the well being and formation of your population that saddens me. It's a sad sad state of affairs. As for the legal system, it's mostly because of how erratic and the amount of frustrating double standards and holes that exists. It's become such a bloated distorted mess when one considers the founding ideas that governed it that I just can't help but feel hopeless when thinking about the future.
 

Keio

For a Finer World
I think the major difference between US and Europe is this:

USA = jail is to punish criminals
Europe = jail is to rehabilitate people

It's a big philosophical gap, which I think is especially painful in a situation like this. Rather than locking up a disadvantaged kid for life to become a high cost & ruin his life, I think the European system would've mandated education in prison and aimed to restore this guy to society.
 

Chumly

Member
Seriously messed up. The disadvantage of poor people in the court system is frankly ridiculous. Imagine if this guy had rich parents. He'd be doing community service.


In addition this is a MASSIVE waste of taxpayer money. I mean life sentence with no parole for robberies? I don't even care that it was a string.
 
Benefits to Society-

-It keeps a dangerous criminal off the streets, one who has on multiple occasions put lives at risk, and had committed a number of armed robberies.

-Sets an example to try and discourage these types of crimes in the future.

Thousands, Hundreds of Thousands, of people in the past were executed, imprisoned, etc for robbery and yet people today still do it. The "it sets an example" idea is played out and washed up bullshit that simply holds no value. Life in prison for someone where the only proof is that other criminals claimed "he did it too" is not justice and does not benefit our society at all.

Also, there are police officers out there that will shoot your dog just because the officer went to the wrong house.
 
Considering he was involved in a string of armed robberies, this definitely shouldn't be considered a "first" offence as such.

That being said, this kind of sentencing is utterly ridiculous. Locking someone away for their entire life serves no meaningful purpose. Clearly it's not acting as a deterrent, and there is no possibility of rehabilitation in this kind of sentencing, so basically it's saying "this person is so terribly bad that they need to be locked away literally forever."

For armed robbery? Where nobody was harmed? What the hell?

And yes, I've been a victim of armed robbery - 3 times actually while working in a gas-station during my university years. And there is no way anyone deserves a lifetime behind bars for that.
 

Tacitus_

Member

As the odd man out, Davis was convicted largely on the basis of his accomplices' testimony, court documents show.

---
The accounts of Davis's firing his gun were otherwise uncorroborated.

And this is what gets a 'first time offender' 160 years in prison. SMH america.
 

antonz

Member
Armed Robbery has always been taken very serious by the government. When money is involved the Feds throw the book. Considering he robbed multiple banks in a crime spree he was gonna get hit for each and every bank hit.

Sucks for him and hes a first time offender only in the sense he robbed all the banks in a row before he could be stopped but the reality is he is a repeat offender that just hadnt gotten caught.

Armed Robbery is a first degree felony with a sentence of upto 30 years for each count
 

Alucrid

Banned
As a student of international law based in Europe, your legal system is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my entire life. It manages to be even more shocking and dysfunctional than the one in Saudi Arabia, because at least theirs can be excused considering the country they live in. As someone who has visited and loves your culture and most of your past history and hopes to establish a home there, I must confess I do not understand how you are not shamed by the past 30 years of your country's history. There is something deeply wrong with the way you guys do things there, and your legal, educational and healthcare systems happen to be the places where it is most evident.

You mean there wasn't anything to be ashamed about before the 80s?
 

Trike

Member
Jesus Christ you guys. Yeah, his sentence for each robbery is ridiculous. According to Florida's hilarious designed website the average sentence is 10.1 years for armed robbery. Assuming that all the jail time sentenced was for just the armed robberies, he was given about 23 years per robbery. Even if it was just the average 10.1 years though, would that make anything better? 70 years might as well be 162 or whatever. He will still most likely be dead by the time it was served.

So I am confused as to what the issue is. The hilariously bloated number of 160 years in prison? Or the fact that people think it should count as his first offense? Even if it was (and correct me if I am wrong LawyerGAF, I am just using the googles), considering it was armed robbery he would still be serving a buttload of time due to the fact that armed robbery is a 1st degree felony in Florida. Had he of been convicted of just one armed robbery his time would not be so absurd.

If you are upset that his cohorts were given a comparatively smaller sentence, then that is a fine thing to be upset about.

Also, I have a question for LawyerGAF (cause again, the googles is all I know). Would he be charged separately for each robbery, or would it be all at once?
 

Feature

Banned
No sympathy from me. He's a criminal who probably caused lifelong trauma's with the people he robbed at gun point. Wouldn't care if he got life sentence.
 

Joni

Member
'Multiple armed robberies' and only 'my first offense', the combination doesn't compute. It only means he was smart enough to avoid getting captured long enough to commit multiple offenses. 162 years seems a bit long, but I certainly won't care.
 

Joni

Member
That he should move to Norway and spend his time in a cushy prison while an actual mass murderer gets to spend some time in US prisons where he'll actually pay for his crimes.

But but it is only Breivik's first offense. He has never done anything wrong before, just like the guy in the OP.
Aside from that, his official sentence is 21 years, but after those 21 years the government has the right to prolong his sentence. He isn't going to get released.
 
But but it is only Breivik's first offense. He has never done anything wrong before, just like the guy in the OP.
Aside from that, his official sentence is 21 years, but after those 21 years the government has the right to prolong his sentence. He isn't going to get released.

Does it make it right that Breivik didn't spread out his killings and that he set off a bomb in the same time period? If there was any justice (which there wasn't), Breivik would get 21 years for each person he killed.

Breivik's sentence has a chance of being prolonged and there's a chance that he may be let go (still highly improbable but not impossible) but this guy won't since they've already doled out an impossible and unjust sentence.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
As someone who has lived overseas, I hate to break it to you but the justice systems in other nations are just as bad, and in many cases far far worse.

True that.
 

Des0lar

will learn eventually
That he should move to Norway and spend his time in a cushy prison while an actual mass murderer gets to spend some time in US prisons where he'll actually pay for his crimes.

People always go around shouting how important freedom is, but when talking about prisons in Europe it's like "this place is better then where I live I should go there!"

No you shouldn't. Having no freedom, being watched all the time is no "cushy" matter. Europe's prisons try to make your life at least livable even if you're inprisoned. And then try to rehabilitate into society. American prisons are just fucked up.

I don't want to be an America basher, but some things just need to change.
 

akira28

Member
I think the major difference between US and Europe is this:

USA = jail is to punish criminals
Europe = jail is to rehabilitate people

It's a big philosophical gap, which I think is especially painful in a situation like this. Rather than locking up a disadvantaged kid for life to become a high cost & ruin his life, I think the European system would've mandated education in prison and aimed to restore this guy to society.

Before we all expire due to oxygen deprivation from the height of our tall, tall horses, lets not forget that the American justice system did inherit quite a bit from it's European origins, including the use of imprisonment as a form of punishment, not to mention continuing the long tradition of capital and corporal punishment. It took the Quakers to come up with the concept of prison as a place of penance and retribution leading to rehabilitation, but now the word "penitentiary" is just another name for a really secure prison. In fact most people use a shortened form of the word and call them 'pens'. Illustrating how completely lost the concept of prisons redeeming prisoners is in America. It may have changed gradually in much of Europe, but it's definitely a recent change.

"You found God in prison? What was he in for?" That kind of thing is like a barely believed, happened by chance, cheap ploy for attention, mark of a desperate man kind of thing, people finding salvation and feeling guilt and remorse for their actions. Instead, prison and jail is just a form of detention, and most people want no more and no less than that. Put evil men in cages and keep them away from people better than them. They can't be saved, can't be changed, and why should we bother? They broke the rules, and the only reason we keep them alive in jails is because it might be seen as wrong to just murder them outright. We'd much prefer to make them disappear forever. So god help them if we ever discover the Phantom Zone. One way ticket to the immaterial for drug possession, domestic disputes, aggravated assault, drunk driving, and jaywalking.
 

UrbanRats

Member
Won't someone think of the armed robbers?
What's the point of having a detailed justice system, if we must not care about it, as soon as the crime is intentional?
It's an absurd sentence, if anyone is interested in justice and having an equal system, they SHOULD care, if not for the man, for the case itself.

I think the major difference between US and Europe is this:

USA = jail is to punish criminals
Europe = jail is to rehabilitate people

It's a big philosophical gap, which I think is especially painful in a situation like this. Rather than locking up a disadvantaged kid for life to become a high cost & ruin his life, I think the European system would've mandated education in prison and aimed to restore this guy to society.

Well "Europe" is a pretty broad term in this case.
You bet a Norwegian and an Italian prison are quite distant from each other.
 
People always go around shouting how important freedom is, but when talking about prisons in Europe it's like "this place is better then where I live I should go there!"

No you shouldn't. Having no freedom, being watched all the time is no "cushy" matter. Europe's prisons try to make your life at least livable even if you're inprisoned. And then try to rehabilitate into society. American prisons are just fucked up.

I don't want to be an America basher, but some things just need to change.

There are crimes from which a person can be rehabilitated from and sometimes, the offender already regrets what he has done before the sentence is handed out.

In the case of Breivik, there is nothing to rehabilitate and he should be locked away. He laughed and smiled throughout the entire trial process - my blood was boiling when I was watching the trial. He would have been the next Hitler if he had any power.

Now, I'm not saying that cushy prisons are a bad thing, but for some people, they are a bad thing. For Breivik to be lazing around on a couch in front of LCD TVs and getting daily exercise and great food is an insult to the families of the victims.
 

Aselith

Member
Did everyone miss this?



What the fuck is that?

It just means that each robbery is counted as a separate crime. What's the issue? He didn't rob people once, he did it over and over again. Hence a "string" of robberies.

I don't see anything wrong with this. The sentence taken as a whole seems excessive because you aren't considering how many robberies he actually did. Not getting caught for 9 robberies and getting snatched up on the tenth doesn't mean you should only get attempted robbery for the one you got caught on.

There are some things messed up about our justice system but I don't see this case representing one of them other than that I agree that plea bargains shouldn't be a thing. It's a way for lazy prosecutors to build cases on the back of tit-for-tat nonsense.
 
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