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Man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice (GAF - I just don't see the point anymore)
- Thread starter Vermillion
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undrtakr900
Member
The Faceless Master
Member
doesn't seem that long or surprising for a long string of armed robberies. hard to feel sorry for the guy, he should have snitched like the other dudes.
#YOLO
#YOLO
They'll spend more on taking care of him than he would ever have been able to get away with stealing. But that isn't the point. The point is bringing lawbreakers to justice, and you can't put a cost on that. The taxpayers are willing to pay it, no matter the price. No matter that he wasn't even necessarily the worst crook out there, just the one who didn't make a deal for a lesser sentence.
And the thought that tougher sentencing will be a deterrent against more crimes actually means that people desperate enough to break the law will behave even more desperately in order to not be caught.
But lets say they did focus on rehabilitation versus punishment. Would he even be able to find a job with a record for armed robbery? Could he survive without turning back to a life of crime? Even that's hard to say. Once a criminal, always a criminal, a lot of people tend to believe that.
And the thought that tougher sentencing will be a deterrent against more crimes actually means that people desperate enough to break the law will behave even more desperately in order to not be caught.
But lets say they did focus on rehabilitation versus punishment. Would he even be able to find a job with a record for armed robbery? Could he survive without turning back to a life of crime? Even that's hard to say. Once a criminal, always a criminal, a lot of people tend to believe that.
captainnapalm
Member
I can't believe the whole prison system thing hasn't really been re-evaluated yet. Throwing the worst of society's worst together in a savage melting pot, where they live like animals with very little actual rehabilitation or, ironically, law enforcement, seems like a pretty awful idea if you think about it.
They might as well throw away the key, because this kid would come out of prison a much harder, violent and less sympathetic human being.
They might as well throw away the key, because this kid would come out of prison a much harder, violent and less sympathetic human being.
Many people believe in a lot stuff that makes no sense at all.
And let's face it. People want revenge not justice.
He's scum anyway if +100 years of prison can't turn him into something good.
^^What he said.
He committed a serious crime and should get a decent chunk of time for that, but 162 years with no chance of parole? Come on.
Of course not, but if you think this guy got an injustice punishment, you have to consider that Breivik was in the same boat. It was only his first time in trial. He just committed mass murder as his first offense if you want to fall for the fake sob story of that armed robber.
Breivik has gotten the maximum sentence possible. This guy hasn't. If Breivik was American, he would have gotten the death penalty, but he isn't. He is Norvegian. This guy commited multiple armed robberies, and maybe next time he'll be smart enough to do it somewhere else if you think he should be in a European prison.
YourMaster
Member
I thought the point of increasing punishment on a repeat offense is punishing the offender from not learning from his initial incarceration.
This would make a 7 * 7 year punishment more reasonable then a 1 * 7 + 6 * 25 year punishment. (If properly proven).
This would make a 7 * 7 year punishment more reasonable then a 1 * 7 + 6 * 25 year punishment. (If properly proven).
He didn't commit a serious crime.
He committed a SERIES of serious crimes. The sentence is fine, the guy is a no good criminal.
The american justice system is way out of league. Seriously.
While I think criminals should spend time in jail it should be, as someone else said was the difference between the US and Europe, for as much for rehabilitation as punishment.
I'd say 8-10 years is enough for someone like him. Hopefully the person can get back into society and actually contribute than just being a cost.
If people are so damn afraid that criminals that get out of prison (as long as they aren't serial killers) would be a mortal danger to themselves they might as well prohibit alcohol and motorised vehicles as that combination probably kills more people than random events during an armed robbery.
At least I'm more afraid that some drunk driver rams into the car I'm in than some hooded robbers show up when I'm in the bank.
While I think criminals should spend time in jail it should be, as someone else said was the difference between the US and Europe, for as much for rehabilitation as punishment.
I'd say 8-10 years is enough for someone like him. Hopefully the person can get back into society and actually contribute than just being a cost.
If people are so damn afraid that criminals that get out of prison (as long as they aren't serial killers) would be a mortal danger to themselves they might as well prohibit alcohol and motorised vehicles as that combination probably kills more people than random events during an armed robbery.
At least I'm more afraid that some drunk driver rams into the car I'm in than some hooded robbers show up when I'm in the bank.
DiscoJer
Member
Well, by comparison, a 100 years ago, there were numerous outlaw gangs that robbed banks and trains and such. One was the Dalton Gang, which was largely wiped out when they tried to get cute and rob two banks at the same time.
The only person to survive that (despite being shot 23 times) was sent to jail, but only served 14 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Dalton
Bear in mind too that the town marshal was killed in the gunfight where he got captured. (Another example from that era is Frank James - he somehow managed to get acquitted, despite being Frank James)
And then there are big criminals of the 1920s that aren't well known today, but robbed numerous banks and got off with relatively light sentences.
Eddie Bentz - 12 years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Bentz
Harvey Bailey - 30 years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Bailey
(Both were associates of Machine Gun Joe Kelly, who wasn't actually nearly as tough as his nickname, but pretty bad dudes)
Why is it that today, when we are supposed to be so much more sophisticated and enlightened, are giving out harsher sentences? Especially as in this case, he doesn't exactly seem to be a criminal mastermind, but someone just said to him "Hey, let's go rob a Wendy's." "Sure, why not?"
The only person to survive that (despite being shot 23 times) was sent to jail, but only served 14 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Dalton
Bear in mind too that the town marshal was killed in the gunfight where he got captured. (Another example from that era is Frank James - he somehow managed to get acquitted, despite being Frank James)
And then there are big criminals of the 1920s that aren't well known today, but robbed numerous banks and got off with relatively light sentences.
Eddie Bentz - 12 years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Bentz
Harvey Bailey - 30 years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Bailey
(Both were associates of Machine Gun Joe Kelly, who wasn't actually nearly as tough as his nickname, but pretty bad dudes)
Why is it that today, when we are supposed to be so much more sophisticated and enlightened, are giving out harsher sentences? Especially as in this case, he doesn't exactly seem to be a criminal mastermind, but someone just said to him "Hey, let's go rob a Wendy's." "Sure, why not?"
RangersFan
Member
Fucks. I give none. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time...
The sentence is far from "fine". The US "justice" system is fucked up in all kinds of ways and this is just another example of that.
He was involved in multiple armed robberies, why shouldn't he be locked up for the rest of his life?
I mean, one, sure maybe he made some mistake and ended up in over his head. Multiple though?
Fuck that guy, lock him up and throw away the key. His partners should get the same.
And this is why our system is so fucked up at times. Fairness should NOT be conditional.
With that said, the part that annoys me the most(Other than the articles attempt to have me sympathize with this scumbag) is that they throw the book at this dude and somehow let ALL the others off on much lighter sentences.
From what I see in the article, there is nothing there that qualifies him for a geometrically longer sentence than the others.
Neuromancer
Member
I disagree sir. You participated in 7 armed robberies and then didn't have the sense to plead guilty. I'm not going to lose any sleep over this.
Other than the fact that they all pled guilty, but he pled innocent and went through a trial. Sentences are generally harsher on people who deny they did the crime and accept responsibility for their actions (rightly so in my opinion.)
Lawyer GAF already told you not to waste your time looking up FLORIDA STATE LAW because he was charged, tried, and convicted in the FEDERAL system.
Neuromancer
Member
They should have given him three months of belly rubs and ice creams instead.
Folks deserve one shot at rehabilitation. He should have gotten 20-30, not 162.
Fair enough.
I disagree with the acceptance of responsibility though. THAT does not justify the sentence. Whether you willingly admit to it or not should have little impact on the punishment you receive for your crime.
MWS Natural
Member
The Prison Industrial Complex is big money in America. They have to keep feeding the system and the only way to do that is to keep locking people up for more crimes and longer sentences.
US Incarceration Rate Wiki said:
Well i think it should have SOME weight in the sentence, it's there for a reason and it's a way to show you've aknowledged your faults and are ready for a change, but realistically, i'm thinking a 18y/o will do whatever his legals will tell him to do, he's clueless.
Not to say he's a victim here, i mean we all agree he was a piece of shit, i don't think just being a piece of shit is enough of a reason to lose all our reasoning as a social system, though.
To me is absurd that some people just don't care whatever happen to him, just because they don't like the guy, i think it goes beyond him as an individual.
Enosh
Member
yes it goes to the 7 armed robberies he committed while being in full control of his actions
Yeah this isn't really fair. Like others have stated before, i've got no problem with putting him jail for a few years because of his crimes, but this (strange) predicament is really unwarranted. Stacking sounds like a video game concept... Too bad too, since I really feel bad for the kid (unfortunate living conditions and he's suffering from bipolar-ism?)
Welp. 2012 is not a good year for Florida lol. I actually bet myself that this thread would involve Florida in some way shape or form.
Welp. 2012 is not a good year for Florida lol. I actually bet myself that this thread would involve Florida in some way shape or form.
Yeah, that's what i was talking about, so he did a hineous crime, therefore we should abandon all logic and just give the guy whatever/who cares? You guys act like people wanting a fair sentence, are saying he should be free of all charges, with all these bullshit comments like "won't someone think of the armed robbers?", sounds like a strawman argument to me.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Basically this. No-one is saying he shouldn't go to jail. People are saying that essentially a life sentence for robbery is excessive.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
5 years would have been a more appropriate
Enosh
Member
no it actually sounds like a concept that takes into account the crimes you committed before getting caught
if he did get caught on his first robbery, fine first offender
but on the 7th? don't try to sell me the first offender bullshit, you are 6 robberies beyond being a first offender
SolidSnakex
Member
That wasn't even a possibility due to Florida's 10-20-Life law. You get 10 years minimum if you simply pull a gun during a robbery, 20 years if you fire it and 25-life if you injure someone. In this case you're talking about a guy that did this crime seven times and fired the gun outside of one of the places that he robbed. Given their stance on that crime there was no way that they were ever going to let him out.
Jesus Christ, people. I give up.
That's the point. The prison system and the war on drugs is making some folks a lot of money. If you change some things, legalizing weed for example, you take away a lot of income from whoever is making money off these things.
Why? Institutional racism? Prison as an industry?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The people trying to mock outrage over this as 'defending scumbags who should suffer! DEY IS DA BAD GUYS!" is the most intellectually dishonest thing in the world.
Nobody is saying or even suggesting this persons did not do a bad thing - if he even did it, as people might question if they actually read the details.
What people are actually outraged over is how there is no concept of actual 'justice' at play here.
It IS a very simple minded American philosophy that there's good guys in white hats and bad guys in black hats and the good guys lock the bad guys up in jail and go home to fuck the prom queen. There are way too many people who just recite that in their head, turn off their brain, and walk down the street whistling.
The deep systemic problems in the criminal justice system are the one thing that DOES actually "trickle down" and affects everyone, whether they realize it or not. It helps create a warped society.
What is injust? Did he not commit multiple counts of a crime which gives you 10-20 years per act? There are innocent people in jail, that is injust.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Yeah, because that's exactly what everyone against his sentencing is suggesting. Not, say, 7-10 years, or even just one life sentence, or something reasonable.
LESS THAN 162 YEARS? BLEEDIN' HEARTS GETTIN' SOFT ON CRIMINALS! HURR DURR.
maniac-kun
Member
Is it a state prison or a private prison? Corruption is wide spread in the USA.
Mammoth Jones
Member
On one hand....that sucks to be in jail for that long. On the other hand....armed robbery ain't no joke. Sure, no one was hurt that time. How many times does he need to be in and out the system until he does get someone killed?
Ugh. How about not arm robbing and keep your freedom....has worked pretty well for me.
The stacking thing doesn't sound legit.
Ugh. How about not arm robbing and keep your freedom....has worked pretty well for me.
The stacking thing doesn't sound legit.
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