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Microsoft Closes Redfall Developer Arkane Austin, HiFi Rush Developer Tango Gameworks, and More in Devastating Cuts at Bethesda

Topher

Gold Member
Personally, I think it's just wishful thinking.
We always hear about "well they didn't market it enough", but there's 2 major problems with that.

First off, it's not like the people who say that don't know about the games. They get prime time showings at the major events that the whole gaming internet watches.

Second, more marketing = higher budget = higher break even point. How many more dollars of marketing would they have needed to spend to get more people to buy HFR? My guess is that the money they spent on the former would be larger than what they make on the latter.

Other than that Gamepass means that every game has to fight an uphill battle to justify getting bought, we need to admit that some games just aren't appealing to enough people, and that the gaming community talks a big game about wanting new stuff without putting the money behind the posts.

Pentiment and Pscyhonauts 2 fell in the same boat.

I get what you are saying, but at the same time this isn't about making people who follow gaming like we do aware, it is making those who don't follow gaming aware. Shadow drops only work for those who already tuned in. I'm not suggesting HFR deserves God of War marketing, but hell, a Early Access release on Steam would have been better than a shadow drop. Something to generate more buzz about what turned out to be a very well-received game vs putting money behind a turd like Redfall seems like a no-brainer to me.
 

demigod

Member

Question Mark What GIF by MOODMAN

I think he forgot about that tweet 😂

Another L by Shpeshal Nick Shpeshal Nick
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
You know what? While this is super shit, if people stopped shitting on every single game MS publish and had buy them instead maybe, just maybe they wouldn't have closed those studios.

How many of you crying right now bought any of those games, prettsure less than 5% how many of you shit on them without even playing them, probably 95%.

Hellblade is gonna sell like shit and being criticized to death just because is MS exclusive (for now..) don't be surprised if Ninja Theory comes next.

Stop being hypocrite.

That does NOT excuse their closure, but it didn't help for sure....
Ohhhh, so it is gamers' fault, not Xbox's.

Lil Yachty Drake GIF by hamlet
 

Woopah

Member
Not to get off topic and down too big a political rabbit hole, but yes Microsoft are communist, what we're being pushed towards is a China model of society, Microsoft are supporting this agenda 100%, there's no profit to be made from something like DEI, it's purely a political flex, an excuse to have commissars and control narratives and oust "wrong thinkers"

It's ironic, but the Chinese model of communism allows a lot of political power for big business and their cronies in government, it's why they want it, all the benefits of capitalism with the benefit of a government that gets to control free speech and send political enemies to re-education camps, it's a win-win for elites and a lose-lose for the little guy.

This is why Xbox sucks now, this is all downstream from a corporation who the last thing on their agenda is you having fun.
That is a bit of a political rabbit hole, and probably one we won't agree on given the good things I've seen DEI do at my own company.

Regardless, I dont believe that the main factor impacting the sales of Ghostwire Tokyo was the fact that the English translation temporarily included a quote from Pierre-Joseph Proudhon.

As a random aside, Pierre-Joseph would hate DEI since he was a strong supporter of the patriarchy.
Lots.

Its not unusual for a studio that closed to have the team form a different team or get picked up by a different publisher or something. I mean, studio closed, MS didn't buy humans like slavery or something lol They are free to get other jobs is what I mean and hopefully those teams just form something better else where.

So maybe Capcom might pick up those Tango members or Sony if they want to do some Siren type thing.

Who knows.
Oh if you're talking about hiring or partnering with the talent after they have left, then yes that is perfectly possible.
 

Topher

Gold Member
You know what? While this is super shit, if people stopped shitting on every single game MS publish and had buy them instead maybe, just maybe they wouldn't have closed those studios.

How many of you crying right now bought any of those games, prettsure less than 5% how many of you shit on them without even playing them, probably 95%.

Hellblade is gonna sell like shit and being criticized to death just because is MS exclusive (for now..) don't be surprised if Ninja Theory comes next.

Stop being hypocrite.

That does NOT excuse their closure, but it didn't help for sure....

lol.....you had Ass of Can Whooping Ass of Can Whooping heaping praise on Hi Fi Rush my man. He did more to promote Hi Fi Rush than Microsoft did. Let that sink in before you start pointing fingers at people as if it is their responsibility to buy Microsoft's games. lol...what an absurd post.
 

cireza

Member
'If you are expecting people to ask for a refund for a game they really love and are happy with, because the company demanded a sign in account, you are completely delusional.'
Definitely the same kind of situation lol.

In one case, the consumer is directly impacted and might even not be able to play anymore, in the second it doesn't change a thing.
 

RickMasters

Member
What the fuck. Devastating news.

Hi-Fi is the best thing MS has put out in ages. It seemed like a no-brainer to prop them up and utilize their Japanese sensibilities to give some good variety to the platform.

Just horrendous news.


It’s tango one that stings me the most. And arcane. I know redfall sucked but damn the studio deserved another chance. Tango had so much potential and as usual…. MS management find a way to just ruin any good thing they have going for them.


This is all just….nasty.
 

Topher

Gold Member
It’s tango one that stings me the most. And arcane. I know redfall sucked but damn the studio deserved another chance. Tango had so much potential and as usual…. MS management find a way to just ruin any good thing they have going for them.


This is all just….nasty.

I think Arkane deserved another chance as well. Phil Spencer said he would "bet on" Arkane Austin's next game in the video tweet I posted above. Guess he was just talking shit as usual.
 
I’ve bought Psychonauts 2, As Dusk Falls, Pentiment and Hi-Fi Rush for the PS5. All high-quality games.

I hate gaming subscriptions and maybe if they were not on gamepass to begin with Microsoft could’ve turned this around. The model doesn’t work.
The main issue is their consoles don't sell. The closed ecosystem Xbox will likely collapse before GP. We'll have to wait and see.
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Definitely the same kind of situation lol.

In one case, the consumer is directly impacted and might even not be able to play anymore, in the second it doesn't change a thing.

Yes, the equivalency you're trying to draw FunkMiller FunkMiller makes no sense in this case.

The attitude of 'I'm happy, so it's all good' is exactly what got the industry to where it is - and they love you for it.
Folks being happy with a service they pay for isn't the problem. Asking people to mass-cancel their GP subs is going to be about as effective as wearing a pink hat shaped like a vagina and expecting it to get results.

Tango's closure comes just a few weeks after HiFi was released on retail on PS5 and a very likely upcoming Switch port, there wasn't enough breathing room here to determine if the sales / monetary change here made a difference or no, more than likely there were no projects being worked at the studio and they lacked a creative vision to move forward without Mikami.

Just my guess though.
 
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Well buy the game or subscribe if you want to support it. Not sure if we're allowed to say that anymore. Super controversial point apparently.
I buy all my games. I don’t believe in GamePass. The thing is I don’t think there are enough people buying to guarantee the long term survival of these studios. As we’ve seen from Hifi Rush’s situation, GamePass success metrics are bullshit and don’t guarantee a studio won’t get shut down.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Yes, the equivalency you're trying to draw FunkMiller FunkMiller makes no sense in this case.

Folks being happy with a service they pay for isn't the problem. Asking people to mass-cancel their GP subs is going to be about as effective as wearing a pink hat shaped like a vagina and expecting it to get results.

The equivalence I'm drawing is that game companies listen when enough gamers take a stance. If Xbox saw that their subscriber numbers were dropping in direct correlation to their actions towards developers, then that might effect some sort of change. You hurt a company's bottom line and they take notice.

Now I'm not suggesting it's going to happen, because getting enough Xbox fans to give up their precious subscription service (you know, the thing that's helping to destroy game developers) is extremely unlikely. But if it was to happen it would send a clear message. Especially if it's made obvious on social media that the cancellations are only occurring due to Xbox's fucking appalling attitude to game developers and customers.
 
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Yes, the equivalency you're trying to draw FunkMiller FunkMiller makes no sense in this case.


Folks being happy with a service they pay for isn't the problem. Asking people to mass-cancel their GP subs is going to be about as effective as wearing a pink hat shaped like a vagina and expecting it to get results.

Tango's closure comes just a few weeks after HiFi was released on retail on PS5 and a very likely upcoming Switch port, there wasn't enough breathing room here to determine if the sales / monetary change here made a difference or no, more than likely there were no projects being worked at the studio and they lacked a creative vision to move forward without Mikami.

Just my guess though.

They had John so that's bullshit.
 
John is a great creative but he just got off making HFR, I don't think he mentioned that he was working on something new after that game came out on his socials.

I don't think anyone closes a studio that's made good games on a whim. There's probably underlying reasons we'll never find out.

They were a name on an excel sheet that were ticked. We don't need to try and speculate of underlying reasons.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
How many of you crying right now bought any of those games, prettsure less than 5% how many of you shit on them without even playing them, probably 95%.

Hellblade is gonna sell like shit and being criticized to death just because is MS exclusive (for now..) don't be surprised if Ninja Theory comes next.

It's going to sell like shit because it's 'free' on GamePass.

You know...

That thing you love.
 

RickMasters

Member
I think Arkane deserved another chance as well. Phil Spencer said he would "bet on" Arkane Austin's next game in the video tweet I posted above. Guess he was just talking shit as usual.
It’s why he needs to go. I don’t believe he is not in a position to defend these teams. Arcane are a solid and talented team. Redfall is something they could have easily moved on from and redeemed themselves with a much better new game. They deserved that chance and support. I’m actually sickened by it.



I’m seriously pissed by the tango one the most though. They finally had a Japanese studio and who’s to say they could It have expanded it with more teams and even brought some legendary/ high profiles Japanese devs in to lead those teams, they had that at one point with tango.

Phil need to be fired and Sarah bond should not be his replacement I don’t think she has the aggressive mindset needed to make Xbox what it should be.
 

Flabagast

Member
You know what? While this is super shit, if people stopped shitting on every single game MS publish and had buy them instead maybe, just maybe they wouldn't have closed those studios.

How many of you crying right now bought any of those games, prettsure less than 5% how many of you shit on them without even playing them, probably 95%.

Hellblade is gonna sell like shit and being criticized to death just because is MS exclusive (for now..) don't be surprised if Ninja Theory comes next.

Stop being hypocrite.

That does NOT excuse their closure, but it didn't help for sure....
You got it all wrong pal. Some of the biggest responsible for this mess are the stupid stupid Xbox fans that thought that somehow by stopping to buy games and just spending $10 a month they could sustain a whole portfolio of games and studios. Look where we are now.

I bet you are a subscriber to gamepass no ? If so, you are at fault here. You want some games, you pay for it, full price. This is what PS fans and Nintendo fans are doing, and look how their ecosystem are thriving. Don't blame others, blame yourself.
 
It's going to sell like shit because it's 'free' on GamePass.

You know...

That thing you love.
They are okay putting it on a sub. The game is also not even selling for $60, let along $70. Hi-Fi Rush was only $25. It's also pretty much a sure thing this will hit PS5 at some point. Everyone has literally every possible chance to buy this or sub if they want, and it all counts. Really not any more excuses. Consumers will support it or not.
 
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This is just the beginning, and it won't just be from Microsoft, sadly. I am crushed by the Tango closure, as HiFi Rush was on of my games of the gen, but I am not totally surprised. As much as people talk budgets for games as a problem, the other bigger problem I think is time, which is connected. Arkane Austin's last big release was Prey, a game that didn't light the world on fire until it was too late, and Redfall, in development since before the purchase from MS, so what, five years? That is a long term bet, and when it failed, which it spectacularly did, it's a tough ask to wait another half decade to see if this studio can redeem itself. This just isn't sustainable. If MS knew Arkane Austin could get a new game out this gen, then maybe they would have had a shot, but that's not in the cards or even possible, apparently. Add that on top of them not producing a single hit in over a decade, and well... the writing was on the wall.

Tango is the one that hurts, but it's a similar situation. Hifi was amazing, Tokyo Ghost Wire, not so much apparently. And again, that game had a 5 year dev cycle, and had the misfortune (for Xbox) of being a PS5 exclusive for a year. It had its fans, and all, but it was not a bit hit. Neither of the Evil Within games struck gold either. Add on top of that the founder of the studio leaving, and it becomes clear. The shame of it was that Hifi was amazing, and sold well, at $29.99 but, not enough to keep making the same long term bets, apparently.

Unless studios can magically get to not needing half a decade to release a game, things are going to continue this way.
 

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
You got it all wrong pal. Some of the biggest responsible for this mess are the stupid stupid Xbox fans that thought that somehow by stopping to buy games and just spending $10 a month they could sustain a whole portfolio of games and studios. Look where we are now.

I bet you are a subscriber to gamepass no ? If so, you are at fault here. You want some games, you pay for it, full price. This is what PS fans and Nintendo fans are doing, and look how their ecosystem are thriving. Don't blame others, blame yourself.
I'm subbed to PS Plus Premium and played Stray day 1 :messenger_open_mouth:
 

magnumpy

Member
all I care about is Elder Scrolls. sure fallout is ok too, but Elder Scrolls is where I hope the bulk of Bethesdas resources will be dedicated to, for the good of mankind and all that is holy <3
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
They are okay putting it on a sub. The game is also not even selling for $60, let along $70. Hi-Fi Rush was only $25. It's also pretty much a sure thing this will hit PS5 at some point. Everyone has literally every possible chance to buy this or sub if they want, and it all counts. Really not any more excuses. Consumers will support it or not.

I was responding to someone complaining that nobody buys Xbox games.

Nobody buys Xbox games because of GamePass.
 
They are okay putting it on a sub. The game is also not even selling for $60, let along $70. Hi-Fi Rush was only $25. It's also pretty much a sure thing this will hit PS5 at some point. Everyone has literally every possible chance to buy this or sub if they want, and it all counts. Really not any more excuses. Consumers will support it or not.

Frankly If Phil gives a single shit about his devs he should be giving them the best possible chance to survive another culling and just do day one launches on PS5 already.
 
Frankly If Phil gives a single shit about his devs he should be giving them the best possible chance to survive another culling and just do day one launches on PS5 already.
I agree. They need to just say that the handheld and Steam Box whatever is coming and just go 3rd party. That's what I'm expecting anyway.

They probably need some time to get the ports ready so they're lined up for simultaneous release. And even though the Xbox base is pretty demoralized, they'll take the news of being a full multiplat publisher better if it's given after the news that they're going open ecosystem. Just seems logical. If they manage to get some of that hardware news out this June, they can hit Starfield PS5 in September with the DLC launch. The rest follows, but they'll have to try and spread the shit out.
 
Frankly If Phil gives a single shit about his devs he should be giving them the best possible chance to survive another culling and just do day one launches on PS5 already.

At this point I don't think it matters. I think even if you make money that's not enough they want big games now. I would be telling my team to take their time with their ports\games while we find new jobs.
 

Nydius

Member
Eventually, MS/Xbox will release something truly good, they can't keep fucking it up eternally, and I'm betting it may be Indiana Jones.

What about Indy Jones makes you think it’s going to be a win?

It’s based on an aged IP that appeals mostly to late boomers to mid-Gen X’ers (so people mostly 50+, not exactly the prime gamer demographic), whose last two movie entries were major flops. It doesn’t have Harrison Ford doing the iconic voice, which will be a turn off for some, and the first person gameplay looked rough as hell.

Now take all that and add to it that it’s going to be platform limited to the smallest possible gaming audience.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Frankly If Phil gives a single shit about his devs he should be giving them the best possible chance to survive another culling and just do day one launches on PS5 already.

Eh, they'll probably make a 6-8 month schedule but I don't think games that weren't already multi-platform (the Cod's and minecrafts) launch on non-Xbox consoles day 1, at least this generation.
 
You genuinely don't think that the absolute, principle reason why Xbox games don't sell anymore is because they are all available day one on a cheap subscription service?
They want people to sub. The main issue is not enough people buying the console. They dont care if you sub or buy as long as you do one of those.
 
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