Support NeoGAF

[Fredrik]

Maybe, but I’m not totally convinced on the bold part. I have about 10 friends on my Xbox friends list who I met through Diablo 3, and they were all hyped for Diablo 4. Only one of them bought the game at launch. The rest… waited.

Checking my friends list today, ALL of them have played it now. Most of them didn’t get their first achievement until after it dropped on Game Pass.

Enthusiasts do wait. For Game Pass, or price drops, or major patches, or GOTY editions.

Diablo 4 was never said to come to Gamepass, but they had hopes and dreams I guess. There are always exceptions. Like me with Stellar Blade! It hasn’t been announced for PC but I’m still waiting on the Steam version. I’m just so tired of buying every single game from Sony twice just because I have a PC too, so now I’m waiting. Guess I’ll play it in 5 years or whatever..

 

[Punished Miku]

Ninja Theory is going to release a cinematic game like God of War (not the same but still) that should be way more hyped than it is and its probably being to be killed this very same summer, Microsoft just doesnt care about any game they are making

The subject matter and tone of the game are significantly more niche than God of War. But like I keep saying, everyone will have literally every possible chance to buy Hellblade 2 or subscribe if they want with no real excuse. I wouldn't blame MS personally, and I don't. Consumers can show up to play it or it will go. Same as anything else. If the game reviews well, and is actually really awesome MS will have done their part. And the game is affordable and will be available on virtually everything. you can't force consumers to play it.

 

[FewRope]

I think Undead Labs is more likely. Tons of bad reports have come from there. The Intiative could also be closed soon if Perfect Dark is cancelled.

I think Perfect Dark is vaporware just like Phantom Dust was, they cannot make for the life of Phil Spencer make any progress in building studios

 

[Nydius]

Obsidian I think is safe.

Obsidian is anything but safe.

I just posted this in a different thread but: Avowed has to be an absolute blockbuster or they’re screwed. Maybe they won’t be shut down but they might be “reorganized” into a studio that does nothing but Fallout and Elder Scrolls spin-offs.

I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Outer Worlds 2.

Edit:

Diablo 4 was never said to come to Gamepass, but they had hopes and dreams I guess.

I think it came down to the fact that it was released in the middle of the ABK acquisition. It was assumed by many Xbox fans that once ABK was acquired their games would end up on Game Pass.

It took them some waiting but they got their wish.

 

[FewRope]

The subject matter and tone of the game are significantly more niche than God of War. But like I keep saying, everyone will have literally every possible chance to buy Hellblade 2 or subscribe if they want with no real excuse. I wouldn't blame MS personally, and I don't. Consumers can show up to play it or it will go. Same as anything else. If the game reviews well, and is actually really awesome MS will have done their part. And the game is affordable and will be available on virtually everything. you can't force consumers to play it.

Of course, but at least they can market the game. When the release date was revealed, the official Xbox account didnt even tweet about and just did a shameful RT of some website

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Obsidian is anything but safe.

I just posted this in a different thread but: Avowed has to be an absolute blockbuster or they’re screwed. Maybe they won’t be shut down but they might be “reorganized” Inyo a studio that does nothing but Fallout and Elder Scrolls spin-offs.

I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Outer Worlds 2.

They also made Grounded. Thats doing great financially, so I heard.

And they have also made good progress in establishing their own formula in that game. IMO they are safe.

 

[Punished Miku]

Of course, but at least they can market the game. When the release date was revealed, the official Xbox account didnt even tweet about and just did a shameful RT of some website

I think marketing is kicking off soon. I don't think it needs more than a week or anything. Just inflates the price of the game and budget.

They showed it at the Game Awards in December. They also had an Xbox event for it in January. Then they invited all of the gaming press to play it a couple months ago. Then they put out a mental health documentary. Launch trailer is coming soon. I just feel like it's kind of inaccurate to blame the marketing here. I think the best hope for the game is great reviews, and people actually willing to show up and play it. Or don't play it, and it goes away obviously. Up to consumers, like always.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I think Perfect Dark is vaporware just like Phantom Dust was, they cannot make for the life of Phil Spencer make any progress in building studios

Like building new studios? I don't think any major publishers have been successful with that.

 

[Nonehxc]

What about Indy Jones makes you think it’s going to be a win?

It’s based on an aged IP that appeals mostly to late boomers to mid-Gen X’ers (so people mostly 50+, not exactly the prime gamer demographic), whose last two movie entries were major flops. It doesn’t have Harrison Ford doing the iconic voice, which will be a turn off for some, and the first person gameplay looked rough as hell.

Now take all that and add to it that it’s going to be platform limited to the smallest possible gaming audience.

Just wishful thinking.

I really, REEEALLY, loved MachineGames and what they did with the Wolfensteins in a world where FPS immersive sims were dead and buried was nothing short of amazing.

But I also loved Tango Gameworks for The Evil Withins, Ghostwire and Hi-Fi Rush and loved like fuck Arkane since the times of Arx Fatalis and look what Xbox did to my boy.

 

[FewRope]

Like building new studios? I don't think any major publishers have been successful with that.

Fair enough, I cannot remember the last time a "veteran studio" made a good game

 

[Fredrik]

I think the next one to go down is 100% inXile, I dont see then survive after the eventual flop of Clockwork

I think if Tango can go down after getting praised by critics and users for it’s uniqueness and fun gameplay then anyone that isn’t doing instant sales hits can go down. And MS has many studios like that. Every team that plan to show a game this summer is probably nervous now. Just the reception online can probably kill anyone of them if it lower the hype at the release.

 

[Fredrik]

I think it came down to the fact that it was released in the middle of the ABK acquisition. It was assumed by many Xbox fans that once ABK was acquired their games would end up on Game Pass.

It took them some waiting but they got their wish.

Ah yeah that’s true. I thought all ABK games would arrive, was the reason I wanted it to go through since I had Gamepass at the time. Took too long though, my sub ended, and 1 game has arrived. Mega failure.

 

[XXL]

I think it came down to the fact that it was released in the middle of the ABK acquisition. It was assumed by many Xbox fans that once ABK was acquired their games would end up on Game Pass.

It took them some waiting but they got their wish.

20+ Bethesda Games came to GamePass 2 days after the acquisition.

It's been around 6 months since ABK and Diablo 4 is the only ABK game on GamePass currently and it was announced at the "business event" which suggests to me it was only to smooth over the bad news.

Since the ABK acquisition they have put more Xbox exclusive games on PS5 than ABK games on GamePass and have closed more studios then ABK games they have put on GamePass.

That's says alot, in my opinion.

 

[mayham2199]

Like building new studios? I don't think any major publishers have been successful with that.

Yea that's to much work. Sony's strategy is way better. Work with a studio independently first, if it works out then you can purchase them.

 

[Pelta88]

Obsidian I think is safe.

Now that XB has ABK, none of their lesser dev studios are safe.

 

[Nydius]

Since the ABK acquisition they have put more Xbox exclusive games on PS5 than ABK games on GamePass and have closed more studios then ABK games they have put on GamePass.

That's says alot, in my opinion.

I agree. There’s clearly a shift in strategy.

However, the argument that was made was enthusiasts don’t wait for games and I don’t believe that. Here we are at an enthusiast oriented gaming forum and quite a lot of people admit they wait for price drops, or DLC-inclusive editions, or PS+/Game Pass.

The point of my anecdote is that I knew Diablo “enthusiasts” who, despite not knowing when or if the game would be on Game Pass, chose to wait and see if it would show up there. It did, and they didn’t spend a penny beyond their stacked Game Pass subscriptions to play it.

 

[Not_A-Cop_Maybe]

20+ Bethesda Games came to GamePass 2 days after the acquisition.

It's been around 6 months since ABK and Diablo 4 is the only ABK game on GamePass currently and it was announced at the "business event" which suggests to me it was only to smooth over the bad news.

Since the ABK acquisition they have put more Xbox exclusive games on PS5 than ABK games on GamePass and have closed more studios then ABK games they have put on GamePass.

That's says alot, in my opinion.

Or possibly they are planning on a a big/major reveal/release onto gamepass during their presentation in June. Wouldnt be surprised with the separate COD presentation that they announce all the games are coming.

Not to mention that one of their concessessions regarding cloud gaming was it have it be available on another gamepass/streaming option which i believe is Ubisoft + (someone can correct me if im wrong). They probably have to sort the licensing and make sure that its available on those options too before putting it out onto gamepass to ensure parity.

Then again a 70Billion merger vs a 10 Billion merger was easier to put onto Gamepass with a smaller library. I would be interested from a BC standpoint if older Ps1-OG Xbox era titles will move onto gamepass as well.

 

[kruis]

I think Undead Labs is more likely. Tons of bad reports have come from there. The Intiative could also be closed soon if Perfect Dark is cancelled.

I looked up Undead Labs on the Internet and boy oh boy, they're in trouble ... Haven't released a game in the past six years, there's no news on "State of Decay 3" except a rumor that it could be delayed to 2027. The biggest news was an expose about that studio appeared on Kotaku two years and told stories of sexism, bullying and burn out while at the same time the studio prided itself on pushing diversity, equity and inclusion. What must have happened was that the old timers disregarded the opinions of the inexperienced newcomers. And when that happened MS stepped in and doubled down on DEI and focused on even more diversity hiring.

But this is going to be one of the cases where most of us will probably say: fuck 'em.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Theoretically, ID Software is one shareholder meeting away from being shut down.

Much like Kojima Productions, if it ever got shut down as an internal studio it would just be founded again as a 3rd party studio. There's too much history, brand power, and name recognition for ID Software for it to just die if MS shut it down.

Honestly, shut down by MS and founded again as an independent would be the best fate for ID because DOOM could be on all platforms again instead of Xbox exclusive.

 

[ProtoByte]

I think Arkane deserved another chance as well. Phil Spencer said he would "bet on" Arkane Austin's next game in the video tweet I posted above. Guess he was just talking shit as usual.

Spencer's no longer the final word.
Spending most of 80 billion dollars and still flatlining revenue wise will get the higher corporate decision makers' attention that way.

 

[XXL]

Or possibly they are planning on a a big/major reveal/release onto gamepass during their presentation in June. Wouldnt be surprised with the separate COD presentation that they announce all the games are coming.

It's possible, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I don't think COD is ever coming to GamePass, maybe older ones, but never the new one Day 1. I just don't see that happening, ever (unless there is a substantial increase in the price of the sub and I mean SUBSTANTIAL).

 

[proandrad]

I know this looks bad, but hear me out. Gamepass is a good deal. And Nintendo and Sony are also bad.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Spencer's no longer the final word.
Spending most of 80 billion dollars and still flatlining revenue wise will get the higher corporate decision makers' attention that way.

Satya: "Assuming Direct Control"

 

[Shrap]

The subject matter and tone of the game are significantly more niche than God of War. But like I keep saying, everyone will have literally every possible chance to buy Hellblade 2 or subscribe if they want with no real excuse. I wouldn't blame MS personally, and I don't. Consumers can show up to play it or it will go. Same as anything else. If the game reviews well, and is actually really awesome MS will have done their part. And the game is affordable and will be available on virtually everything. you can't force consumers to play it.

And if it reviews well like Hi-Fi Rush did and exceeds all their gamepass metrics yet the studio still gets closed like Tango did would you then blame MS?

How can you even trust these guys when a greaseball like Aaron Greenberg says Hi-Fi Rush exceeded their expectations yet they close the studio behind it soon after?

 

[Punished Miku]

And if it reviews well like Hi-Fi Rush did and exceeds all their gamepass metrics yet the studio still gets closed like Tango did would you then blame MS?

How can you even trust these guys when a greaseball like Aaron Greenberg says Hi-Fi Rush exceeded their expectations yet they close the studio behind it soon after?

I do blame MS for Tango. Worst decision they've ever made, and seems really short sighted. I'm just waiting for leaks to start to make some sense of it and explain what happened between this studio and Zenimax, Ikumi Nakamura, Shinja Mikami, and MS. Doesn't make much sense.

The post you quoted from me doesn't mention anything about trusting MS. I think they are a mixed bag on messaging. Sometimes it's clearly hiding shit from sheer desperation, and other times I think they're surprisingly transparent. It's a little more nuanced in my opinion. Closing Tango is such a gigantic shift I can't help but think new decision makers got involved. I mean, Phil was even willing to go to a shrine with Kojima just for a cloud game. The guy brought PSO2. The guy flew to Japan to shake the SQEX CEO's hand for a 10 year old port of FFXIV. I doubt he wanted to close Tango.

 

[Lysandros]

Is this the price for higher shadow quality?

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I looked up Undead Labs on the Internet and boy oh boy, they're in trouble ... Haven't released a game in the past six years, there's no news on "State of Decay 3" except a rumor that it could be delayed to 2027. The biggest news was an expose about that studio appeared on Kotaku two years and told stories of sexism, bullying and burn out while at the same time the studio prided itself on pushing diversity, equity and inclusion. What must have happened was that the old timers disregarded the opinions of the inexperienced newcomers. And when that happened MS stepped in and doubled down on DEI and focused on even more diversity hiring.

But this is going to be one of the cases where most of us will probably say: fuck 'em.

Yeah. I can't imagine SoD3 will be worth a damn assuming it releases.

 

[Banjo64]

Fair enough, I cannot remember the last time a "veteran studio" made a good game

The Impossible Lair.

 

[bishopcruz]

I looked up Undead Labs on the Internet and boy oh boy, they're in trouble ... Haven't released a game in the past six years, there's no news on "State of Decay 3" except a rumor that it could be delayed to 2027. The biggest news was an expose about that studio appeared on Kotaku two years and told stories of sexism, bullying and burn out while at the same time the studio prided itself on pushing diversity, equity and inclusion. What must have happened was that the old timers disregarded the opinions of the inexperienced newcomers. And when that happened MS stepped in and doubled down on DEI and focused on even more diversity hiring.

But this is going to be one of the cases where most of us will probably say: fuck 'em.

It's the same story, games take waaaaaay too long to make these days, and it makes anything but a massive success not worth it. It's not just going to be Microsoft, no business is going to be able to make a 5 year hundred million dollar bet, at minimum, and then bet on the same team if it doesn't pay off. Something HAS to be done about the length of development, it isn't sustainable. Pretty much every dev that is taking half a decade or more to produce something without any income is one failure away from closure.

 

[Fbh]

You got it all wrong pal. Some of the biggest responsible for this mess are the stupid stupid Xbox fans that thought that somehow by stopping to buy games and just spending $10 a month they could sustain a whole portfolio of games and studios. Look where we are now.

I bet you are a subscriber to gamepass no ? If so, you are at fault here. You want some games, you pay for it, full price. This is what PS fans and Nintendo fans are doing, and look how their ecosystem are thriving. Don't blame others, blame yourself.

I wouldn't really blame consumers for taking advantage of what they saw as a good deal.
It's MS who completely devalued their games and was constantly telling their customers to NOT buy them. For the past 4 years they haven't been able to talk about a new game without reminding everyone they don't need to buy it in the same sentence. It's MS who need to take responsibility.

 

[kruis]

You got it all wrong pal. Some of the biggest responsible for this mess are the stupid stupid Xbox fans that thought that somehow by stopping to buy games and just spending $10 a month they could sustain a whole portfolio of games and studios. Look where we are now.

I bet you are a subscriber to gamepass no ? If so, you are at fault here. You want some games, you pay for it, full price. This is what PS fans and Nintendo fans are doing, and look how their ecosystem are thriving. Don't blame others, blame yourself.

Tons of people tricked the system and got Gamepass for much, much less. These same people aren't going to resubscribe when they'll have to pay the regular price at some point. That's a major reason why Gamepass is floundering.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Well, I guess we know why Xbox is being shat down the crapper. It's what happens when you have a boss that spends more time playing videogames on the company dime than actually doing his job (Warning: It's Shitaku, so be warned):

Phil Spencer Spent Nearly 23 Work Weeks Playing Xbox This Year

The Xbox boss couldn’t stop playing Diablo IV and Starfield, but promises it wasn't during work hours

kotaku.com

 

[hybrid_birth]

Microsoft’s major court leak pierces through the hype

Microsoft accidentally leaked its Xbox secrets this week

www.polygon.com

Phil discusses how Xbox decides to close studios: “I don’t think we’ve ever closed a studio due to the studio’s [profit and loss],” Spencer said.

Can't brag about that now Phil.

 

[fart town usa]

I do blame MS for Tango. Worst decision they've ever made, and seems really short sighted. I'm just waiting for leaks to start to make some sense of it and explain what happened between this studio and Zenimax, Ikumi Nakamura, Shinja Mikami, and MS. Doesn't make much sense.

The post you quoted from me doesn't mention anything about trusting MS. I think they are a mixed bag on messaging. Sometimes it's clearly hiding shit from sheer desperation, and other times I think they're surprisingly transparent. It's a little more nuanced in my opinion. Closing Tango is such a gigantic shift I can't help but think new decision makers got involved. I mean, Phil was even willing to go to a shrine with Kojima just for a cloud game. The guy brought PSO2. The guy flew to Japan to shake the SQEX CEO's hand for a 10 year old port of FFXIV. I doubt he wanted to close Tango.

Shinji's recent interview makes it somewhat easy to figure out why he and Ikumi left.

Lots of comments online are saying that there was a mass exodus at Tango recently but I haven't seen anything to back that up and it's a scummy way to justify the closing of Tango.

It seems like typical corporate policy getting in the way. Shinji stayed as long as he did because he wanted to assist with games that were already in production. He straight up says that he was a rank and file employee and the ________ Producer labels in games were meaningless. I have to assume that his plan on allowing junior members to direct games and work on smaller projects wasn't going to be satisfactory for Bethesda/MS. That's all he's wanted to do since founding his own studios. He always mentions it in interviews.

 

[Nonehxc]

I'm wondering how long will we need to wait for those 'Engagement Massive and Growing' but then 'we identified some overlaps and had to take some measures to improve the creativity of our teams', because...

Hellblade II : Ninja Theory's Sacrifice

 

[Punished Miku]

Shinji's recent interview makes it somewhat easy to figure out why he and Ikumi left.

Lots of comments online are saying that there was a mass exodus at Tango recently but I haven't seen anything to back that up and it's a scummy way to justify the closing of Tango.

It seems like typical corporate policy getting in the way. Shinji stayed as long as he did because he wanted to assist with games that were already in production. He straight up says that he was a rank and file employee and the ________ Producer labels in games were meaningless. I have to assume that his plan on allowing junior members to direct games and work on smaller projects wasn't going to be satisfactory for Bethesda/MS. That's all he's wanted to do since founding his own studios. He always mentions it in interviews.

Yeah, maybe. But whatever happened with Nakamura and Mikami seems to be heavily a Zenimax issue. Then you have that new director seemingly pretty happy with promoting Hi-Fi Rush and being excited. Then you have MS killing the whole thing. None of it makes a lot of sense to me, still. I mean, I get being unprofitable. But I can think of a few studios I'd axe first before them.

 

[NickFire]

He literally crucified Phil Spencer yesterday for previous comments of his. He will ask good questions, imo

Hard to believe he is capable of asking good questions in my humble opinion.

Good questions require independent thought. How much independent thought is someone capable of if they were caught off guard by mass layoffs after a company with MS track record kept buying up devs left and right in a short period of time?

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I know this looks bad, but hear me out. Gamepass is a good deal. And Nintendo and Sony are also bad.

“bad” at what? It’s certainly not selling games and moving units!

 

[Topher]

Hard to believe he is capable of asking good questions in my humble opinion.

Good questions require independent thought. How much independent thought is someone capable of if they were caught off guard by mass layoffs after a company with MS track record kept buying up devs left and right in a short period of time?

Any question that is asked about the studio closings will be preapproved by Microsoft. Just like that "business update" they had was an entirely scripted event. Microsoft is going to want to focus on the positives coming out of the showcase.

 

[Banjo64]

games take waaaaaay too long to make these days, and it makes anything but a massive success not worth it.

This is completely self inflicted and something a company opts in for. You can definitely make a polished, small game in less time with less money and release it to huge acclaim.

 

[Klayzer]

Any question that is asked about the studio closings will be preapproved by Microsoft. Just like that "business update" they had was an entirely scripted event. Microsoft is going to want to focus on the positives coming out of the showcase.

Ryan's questions will be nothing but batting practice fodder. Phil will say "this is the best Xbox lineup ever" like he says every year.

 

[mayham2199]

Any question that is asked about the studio closings will be preapproved by Microsoft. Just like that "business update" they had was an entirely scripted event. Microsoft is going to want to focus on the positives coming out of the showcase.

They should just announce the are going full 3rd party. That's the only thing that will take away from the closures. Or they can port more games to PS and then try another "this is more of an experiment" thing again and just get the focus on them bringing more games to PS.

 

[Not_A-Cop_Maybe]

It's possible, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I don't think COD is ever coming to GamePass, maybe older ones, but never the new one Day 1. I just don't see that happening, ever (unless there is a substantial increase in the price of the sub and I mean SUBSTANTIAL).

eh- i think its doable- i doubt new cod games would be packaged with the core game pass tier (maybe the previous entries going to core as part of the 25 games), but i dont think people/gamers would or should gawk at the idea that they could skip spending 100 bucks a year on a new cod game, when they could spend like 150 for the year, get cod and whatever else comes on gamepass.

Like i get peoples argument for and against gamepass, but lets be fucking honest here- I'm a customer/consumer and my cost of living over the last 5 years has gone up in spades. If i can save money and keep my hobby of videogames, why the fuck wouldn't i think that paying for a gamepass sub is substantially a better financial aspect for games that can/could come to the ecosystem. I am literally the last person who can affect whether a dev gets paid properly or allocates their resources properly.

In my mind, that alone would be worth it as someone who dips in and out of cod games every other year. That being said, Cod is very mtx intensive these days, and that money now goes straight to MS + Activision.

Also, they'll make bank as the games will theoretically come to the switch which lets be honest as a platform is literally a wasteland for FPS or large base multiplayer games. So thats a good opportunity for increasing the games presence. Since everyone agrees that Xbox is literally the lowest userbase, the addition of nintendo into the cod-userbase + exisiting PS + potential new users to gamepass could offset the costs of "subsidizing" the game on gamepass.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

It's the same story, games take waaaaaay too long to make these days, and it makes anything but a massive success not worth it. It's not just going to be Microsoft, no business is going to be able to make a 5 year hundred million dollar bet, at minimum, and then bet on the same team if it doesn't pay off. Something HAS to be done about the length of development, it isn't sustainable. Pretty much every dev that is taking half a decade or more to produce something without any income is one failure away from closure.

This is why we're seeing GaaS, early access and MTX. Everyone's looking for a new way to earn money.

 

[Mr Moose]

Wonder if they'll come after him again.

 

[Hudo]

Theoretically, ID Software is one shareholder meeting away from being shut down.

That's fucking terrifying, man... stop it.

 

[GHG]

 

[near]

Microsoft’s major court leak pierces through the hype

Microsoft accidentally leaked its Xbox secrets this week

www.polygon.com

Phil discusses how Xbox decides to close studios: “I don’t think we’ve ever closed a studio due to the studio’s [profit and loss],” Spencer said.

Can't brag about that now Phil.

Phil at the next showcase not giving a fuck:

 

[FewRope]

I'm not buying shit, they put games day one in the service they deal with it

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Phil at the next showcase not giving a fuck:

... GAMING!!!!!!