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[Alright]

The firestick won't just be for GP. It will be a one stop shop of all media that is allowed on the store.

Games
music
movies
TV

Thats why Sony counter punch to gamepass will focus more on media entertainment, because that's the path MS are trying to head down (to compete with amazon)

 

[DaGwaphics]

Also, this:

Edit: this is taken from the Switch version of Control, which runs on The Cloud(TM).

The perfect example of why a per game cloud situation is a bad idea. The old recurring costs vs. one-time payment conundrum. How much capacity are you really willing to put in place, will that capacity drop as sales of the title start to drop etc.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Killzone 2 and RDR2 fans will love this.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

 

[reksveks]

I was going to bold your last statement, then realized I would need to bold every single statement you made.

"Stadia's issue isn't the tech" - The tech will never be as good as local play. Latency is important in games, and network latency is a thing. It doesn't matter as much for some games, but unless the tech works perfectly for ALL games, I see that aspect of it as being a non-starter. You can't have a situation where you think "well I can play rags, and maybe some adventure games on XCloud, but I need to play my fighting games and racing games on the Xbox." It introduces complexity into the consumers life, and consumers want to push an "on" button and have things work.

" Its the business offering and the fact its the only delivery method for their games." - How is this different from what people are saying in this thread? "This is where it's all going." People are making the argument that Microsoft is about to get to where multiple past companies have failed before, but this time it's going to work because ... ?

"Also they have no killer app" - You're right. I forgot Microsoft has been burning up the charts with their killer software offerings.

Who here on this board actually wants this? We can't even properly stream UHD movies (compared to their quality on disc both in video and audio) yet. Until it is 1:1 lossless, with zero and I mean zero discernible difference in play and quality, this is a complete non-starter IMO. The experience matters. This is not going to give you the best experience.

I didn't say it was for people on this board and pretty much most people on this board have already said something similar. The same way that the mass market aren't buying cd's or uhd blu-rays, I can still understand that there are people who will and won't, and so don't judge products likelihood of success on my personal tastes.

The library model works for GPU because there is a decent range of games including brand new games from big publishers from day one. Stadia didn't have that, no one wanted to buy a game from a streaming service.

I didn't say xbox had a killer app as well for their service. I think they need something and maybe it will come, maybe it won't.

You basically replied to me without actually reading my comment correctly.

 

[reksveks]

If xcloud can run series x games at the same resolutions and frame rates, (Big assumption on my part) the the xbox consoles need not exist.

Except some consumers will want to play the game locally, Phil said this basically word for word before when they were asked if there would be more xbox's.

Or the death of streaming games. If they launch something like this, even for free, if the experience is not good for the masses it will be killed in the media and no amount of Microsoft social media marketing will be able to drowned it out. I hope they do not jump the gun on something like this. It can be good in the future if ISPs get their act together in the US. It could also backfire.

Yeah, there is no reason for MS to jump the gun, have a beta app on TV's if you must but not a hardware product until the servers are 100% perfect.

- We shouldn't be talking about the average consumer here on GAF. First, because we don't know what the average gamer wants. And 2.....we aren't the average.
- Gaming as a streaming service will be "PART" of our future yes. But you are acting as if it'll be the main way people play in a few years and that's 100% wrong.

I don't really have an issue talking about the average gamer cause we see the hard numbers in terms of sales and engagement. NeoGAF isn't the average for sure but some of us are able to see the average and not pretend that the market is what it isn't. Gaming streaming won't be our mainstream delivery mechanism, it might be others or it just might the gateway to having a proper console.

 

[Mattyp]

If there's a $20 device someone can buy to access GamePass on their TV I expect a lot of concern over it.

Wait until there’s gamepass app on your newest Samsung, LG & Sony TVs and all you have to do is sync a controller.

I called this at the launch of gamepass and people called me nuts, and I called people nuts for not seeing today’s kids and next generation just don’t give a fuck. They know nothing about physical ownership of movies, games or music. And you see that with how far digital sales are exploding and even digital only consoles.

You no longer own ANYTHING. If anyone here has bought digital you can’t argue against this in anyway. What’s the difference between having a physical box to sign your account in to view your digital content or just using the tv?

There is none.

I get 200Mbps down on my phone in the bush in Australia with 5G, I have a 1Gbps home connection. The tech is here to support that future and it’s blinding some can’t see it. Next generation will be the last generation of boxes, after that it will be whoever has the market leadership ala ‘Netflix’

 

[e&e]

I was going to bold your last statement, then realized I would need to bold every single statement you made.

"Stadia's issue isn't the tech" - The tech will never be as good as local play. Latency is important in games, and network latency is a thing. It doesn't matter as much for some games, but unless the tech works perfectly for ALL games, I see that aspect of it as being a non-starter. You can't have a situation where you think "well I can play rags, and maybe some adventure games on XCloud, but I need to play my fighting games and racing games on the Xbox." It introduces complexity into the consumers life, and consumers want to push an "on" button and have things work.

" Its the business offering and the fact its the only delivery method for their games." - How is this different from what people are saying in this thread? "This is where it's all going." People are making the argument that Microsoft is about to get to where multiple past companies have failed before, but this time it's going to work because ... ?

"Also they have no killer app" - You're right. I forgot Microsoft has been burning up the charts with their killer software offerings.

Who here on this board actually wants this? We can't even properly stream UHD movies (compared to their quality on disc both in video and audio) yet. Until it is 1:1 lossless, with zero and I mean zero discernible difference in play and quality, this is a complete non-starter IMO. The experience matters. This is not going to give you the best experience.

The general consumer doesn’t care about what you posted here. It needs to launch at the right place and right time!

 

[mckmas8808]

The general consumer doesn’t care about what you posted here. It needs to launch at the right place and right time!

But will the process be better than the more traditional way to play games? That's the question.

 

[twilo99]

It makes sense. They will probably bundle the xbox cloud app with some TVs as well.. eventually.

 

[purvispisgah]

But will the process be better than the more traditional way to play games? That's the question.

One way that it might be "better" is to be significantly cheaper. The cheapest current way to get into next gen games is $300 with Series S. A $50-100 stick with $10-20/month GP sub changes the equation for some number of people. Enough people to make a huge market impact? I guess we'll see...

 

[ShinraMiddleMananger]

Tell me arbiter, when you first saw the streaming gamepass fire stick from microsoft were you blinded by its glory?

 

[Shmunter]

One thing about them launching thier own stick vs existing - they can minimize lag to the controller itself, and they can make sure the wifi is beefy, even maybe make sure it has ethernet either on it or as an add on.

That said the experience needs to be pretty darn good, I haven't always seen that myself with xcloud so far. Maybe I'm just unlucky or too picky.

The Stadia controller directly hooking up to the Internet was an impressive strategy. Bypassing all inherent device layers essentially unconcerned with any inherent device latency.

Ms should do this if perusing streaming play seriously.

 

[Bittermich]

I know, hence the comment. We were told 12 teraflops were the end all be all of power but now xcloud is. Its just endless goal post moving. 12 teraflops was never going to matter because Series S will hold the X back, like many devs have already said. Glad Xcloud is further illustrating it was all empty marketing hype and fluff.

lol
Xcloud runs those games at 720p. Xbox series X can play games at 4K and some even at 120fps.

not possible with Xbox streaming stick. Again, they just want to give people options. Has nothing to do with marketing.
Some want the best experience from a quality point of view, so get the 12 tflops machine.
If you don’t need that and don’t even have a 4K tv, get Xbox series s.
And if don’t have much Money and don’t even need 1080, get the streaming stick.
What’s the problem here?

 

[WelshBluebird]

lol
Xcloud runs those games at 720p. Xbox series X can play games at 4K and some even at 120fps.

Aren't they supposed to be upgrading Xcloud to use Series X based hardware soon?

 

[Gargauth]

Sorry but "Fire Stick" sounds like some sex thing.

Is that a bad thing?

 

[Krizalidx11]

If you can use Xcloud on this thing then play on your TV is gonna be crazy next-gen shit

Also Xbox SS will die a very needed death

 

[Dabaus]

lol
Xcloud runs those games at 720p. Xbox series X can play games at 4K and some even at 120fps.

not possible with Xbox streaming stick. Again, they just want to give people options. Has nothing to do with marketing.
Some want the best experience from a quality point of view, so get the 12 tflops machine.
If you don’t need that and don’t even have a 4K tv, get Xbox series s.
And if don’t have much Money and don’t even need 1080, get the streaming stick.
What’s the problem here?

If xcloud runs at 720p only I stand corrected.

 

[Krappadizzle]

i think you're wrong. if MS put out a streaming stick i reckon it'll sell like crazy. for some countries the infrastructure isn't there but that won't matter.

stadia's business model can't be used as an example. you need to buy the hardware and still buy the games on top of a subscription. also, google isn't known to supporting services so you can't blame people for not investing in it.

again, you are here on this forum so likely you aren't the market that streaming is aimed at. you might think it's shit but casual players will not give a shit if it means they are spending less. in my own experience streaming is great. i've used plenty of services and it's been an enjoyable experience. the issue for me is the library quality. you can bet i'd have kept my PS now subscription if there were games i wanted to play because otherwise games played just fine over my internet. when i can play xCloud over my iPhone you can bet i'll be using that instead of buying an Xbox.

I think we are just gonna have to disagree. Again, Stadia was giving away the hardware for free and access to a ton of shit and no-one uses it. And you are absolutely right that Google has a long history of not supporting hardware they release. Granted I'm sure that MSFT's name behind a push would pull in a lot of people alone and they are already close to releasing Chrome support for Gamepass/Streaming as it is. But it's all supplemental as again, I think you are overestimating the infrastructure of the U.S.(and almost assuredly the rest of the world) in regards to high-speed internet. If you are in a MAJOR city you might have speeds that support a good time, but if you aren't, most people will try it once and go back to playing local shit. I DO think it'll happen in the far-off future(10 years or so) but it's not gonna happen anytime soon. I think we just sit on opposite ends of the argument and only the future will tell.

Bumping this thread a little bit to eat some crow. I think nightmare-slain may be closer to the truth than I was really expecting. My wife bought me a Nvidia Shield TV Pro for my birthday and I gotta say...it performs shockingly well. I have it setup, wired into my router/modem, which is by no means the slowest, but not blazing fast either, and the thing performs pretty goddamn well. WAY better than I was expecting.

Playing Nvidia GEFORCE Now, Nvidia's cloud gaming solution, performed exceptionally, I played an hour of Alan Wake, a bit of Super Meat Boy, FEZ and MGSV: Phantom Pain, just kind of jumping around to test the experience and the lag was barely perceptible and felt like any kind of accuracy issues I was having was due more to being on a controller as opposed to a streaming issue. I'd even bet that if someone were to just hand me a controller and not tell me the source, I'd not even know it was being played over a cloud server and any perceived "lag" I felt was probably due to confirmation bias. Granted, I still need to test a mouse/kb on it to see how that feels, but I gotta say....I deserve that crow, cloud gaming is closer than I realized.

I could play a lot of games over the cloud if they perform generally as well as what I've experienced with the Nvidia Shield. Hell, streaming over the local network, and playing BotW at 4k/60fps with my Pro Controller feels native as far as I can tell and it's a blessing not having to move the PC around. So, I tip my hat to you nightmare-slain , you are definitely right, casuals and even self-admitted hardcore players could easily have a great time playing cloud-gaming.

 

[El Pistolero]

That name though...

 

[Diddy X]

Xtick

 

[EverythingsOverrated]

This has potential to be legit. If it has app support similar to a fire stick I'll definitely be getting one.

Stream games via gamepass on the same device in my room I use to watch random bullshit? Sign me up.

 

[Krappadizzle]

This has potential to be legit. If it has app support similar to a fire stick I'll definitely be getting one.

Stream games via gamepass on the same device in my room I use to watch random bullshit? Sign me up.

 

[Clear]

It fits their business plan so this could definitely be a thing,

On the other hand I still believe streamed gaming basically isn't something that the market really wants. Because ultimately its an inferior way to get the experience you'd get on local hardware.

The mistake is basically conflating the tolerances of the mass-market mobile audience with those of who currently buys game consoles and gaming PCs.

Point being, even the sort of ultra-casual gamer who plays just Fortnite or CoD cares about lag and consistency of performance. Even if the difference between local and streamed responsiveness is infinitesimal, confirmation bias will ensure that it becomes perceived to be a disadvantage. And disadvantage is not a selling point.

 

[BeardGawd]

If you can use Xcloud on this thing then play on your TV is gonna be crazy next-gen shit

Also Xbox SS will die a very needed death

I'm of the belief that Series S will be the majority of xCloud blades. They may have a separate subscription tier for 4K streaming but the majority will stream at 1080p due to bandwidth concerns. Using a Series X for that would be a waste.

 

[Krappadizzle]

It fits their business plan so this could definitely be a thing,

On the other hand I still believe streamed gaming basically isn't something that the market really wants. Because ultimately its an inferior way to get the experience you'd get on local hardware.

The mistake is basically conflating the tolerances of the mass-market mobile audience with those of who currently buys game consoles and gaming PCs.

Point being, even the sort of ultra-casual gamer who plays just Fortnite or CoD cares about lag and consistency of performance. Even if the difference between local and streamed responsiveness is infinitesimal, confirmation bias will ensure that it becomes perceived to be a disadvantage. And disadvantage is not a selling point.

I was on this side of the argument too and I have an annoying sensitivity to framerates having used 144hz G-sync for the last 10 years or so and I gotta say, the Nvidia Shield has sold me on the possibility, Cloud-Gaming/Streaming is in a way better state than I think most people realize. I certainly didn't realize it.

Now, not saying that I'm gonna switch to cloud-gaming by any stretch, but I'd bet good money that for a large and general audience, if MSFT/Sony can at least match what Nvidia has achieved, it's gonna do monstrously well.

 

[THE DUCK]

I think if they make this work, this could be what really launches xcloud into a different level.

 

[Aguero9320]

Launch it now. I have a lot of work travel coming up, all over the world... Give me XCloud and TV/Movie streaming apps and it will go everywhere with me. Make sure it's easy to sign into hotel wifi please MS.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Launch it now. I have a lot of work travel coming up, all over the world... Give me XCloud and TV/Movie streaming apps and it will go everywhere with me. Make sure it's easy to sign into hotel wifi please MS.

 

[Aguero9320]

Company credit card and free upgrades to high speed in most places

Of course, doesn't help if I'm somewhere like the Ivory Coast with a black and white Beko TV in the room... But thankfully, mostly modern metropolitan areas this year!

 

[Krappadizzle]

Company credit card and free upgrades to high speed in most places

Of course, doesn't help if I'm somewhere like the Ivory Coast with a black and white Beko TV in the room... But thankfully, mostly modern metropolitan areas this year!

I just have flashbacks back to 07/8/9 when I was constantly traveling cross-country when I was in the military and just how consistently terrible all Wi-Fi was. I'm sure it's much much better now.

 

[Aguero9320]

I just have flashbacks back to 07/8/9 when I was constantly traveling cross-country when I was in the military and just how consistently terrible all Wi-Fi was. I'm sure it's much much better now.

It really does depend where you are. Some places can be like dial up. This has made me realize though I have no idea if XCloud is even available outside the U.S.? Heading to Mexico, Japan, Greece, China, Japan again, Chile and England before the end of the year...

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It fits their business plan so this could definitely be a thing,

On the other hand I still believe streamed gaming basically isn't something that the market really wants. Because ultimately its an inferior way to get the experience you'd get on local hardware.

The mistake is basically conflating the tolerances of the mass-market mobile audience with those of who currently buys game consoles and gaming PCs.

Point being, even the sort of ultra-casual gamer who plays just Fortnite or CoD cares about lag and consistency of performance. Even if the difference between local and streamed responsiveness is infinitesimal, confirmation bias will ensure that it becomes perceived to be a disadvantage. And disadvantage is not a selling point.

For forum gamers, streaming isn't seen in a positive light.

But every gaming pie chart says mobile is growing like crazy and the biggest pie slice. Which means for all the Xbox, PS, Nintendo and PC gamers on this forum, there's more gamers out focusing on mobile, streaming games on the phone or tablet and paying more money into the gaming pot than all us traditional wired gamers combined.

 

[reksveks]

It really does depend where you are. Some places can be like dial up. This has made me realize though I have no idea if XCloud is even available outside the U.S.? Heading to Mexico, Japan, Greece, China, Japan again, Chile and England before the end of the year...

Definitely available in the UK

 

[TheDreadLord]

Launch it now. I have a lot of work travel coming up, all over the world... Give me XCloud and TV/Movie streaming apps and it will go everywhere with me. Make sure it's easy to sign into hotel wifi please MS.

Doesn’t it already work with cellphones? I just need to carry a controller and a clip to hold the cellphone.