Support NeoGAF

[alphachino]

There's a new game preservation project in town and it's a doozy!

With all this renewed attention on emulators with Retroarch and PPSSPP releasing on iOS, I wanted to draw some attention to another, more forward-looking method of playing classic games (with improvements)...

Unlike rom decompilation projects like the Mario64 [https://github.com/sm64-port/sm64-port] and Ocarina of Time [https://www.shipofharkinian.com/] DEcompilations, which can take years, n64recomp can recompile n64 code into native C code within a matter of seconds.

Here's the github for the n64recomp project by Mr Wiseguy: [https://github.com/Mr-Wiseguy/N64Recomp]

The first game to be made available using this method is Zelda: Majora's Mask. Nerrel produced a video on it:


Personally, I stopped emulating my games years ago in favor of FPGA gaming and original hardware, I didn't think it could get better than FPGA but here we are. N64 core on MiSTer was cool and all, but this, this is truly next level and I'm all for it.

 

[alphachino]

Majora’s Mask super ultrawide @240hz

This is using the NSO N64 controller via 8bitdo v2 Bluetooth dongle. Rumble is fully supported.

 

[joeygreco1985]

I would love to have all of the AKI wrestling games use this omg

 

[Kataploom]

This is crazy, as a programmer now I feel dumb compared to this people, holy sh...

 

[CamHostage]

Cool stuff, although there's already a thread:

N64 Static Recompilation, turning N64 Roms into Native PC Ports

Pretty damn amazing! -Even Superman N64 has a port -Roms are converted into C and recreates assets, so technically projects should be easily shareable without Nintendo getting in the way (They will) -Games with custom microcode will require specific patches -Ray tracing, upscaling, ultrawide...

www.neogaf.com

 

[alphachino]

Cool stuff, although there's already a thread:

N64 Static Recompilation, turning N64 Roms into Native PC Ports

Pretty damn amazing! -Even Superman N64 has a port -Roms are converted into C and recreates assets, so technically projects should be easily shareable without Nintendo getting in the way (They will) -Games with custom microcode will require specific patches -Ray tracing, upscaling, ultrawide...

www.neogaf.com

Thanks, searched but didn't find. Hope mod can merge

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

Majora’s Mask super ultrawide @240hz

This is using the NSO N64 controller via 8bitdo v2 Bluetooth dongle. Rumble is fully supported.

how is the NSO controller compared to the original?

bought a couple but havent opened them yet

 

[nkarafo]

Just to correct OP, the N64 mister core is not as accurate as Ares so don't be too quick to dismiss emulation.

 

[alphachino]

how is the NSO controller compared to the original?

bought a couple but havent opened them yet

I love it, but it's realllly hard to tell for sure as all my OG N64 controllers have decades of "breaking-in" and using NSO version on PC goes through many layers of translation, first through the 8bitdo adapter, which converts it xinput, then through Steam input, then the game itself might translate the data slightly differently... but having said all that, I'm really happy with it, it's very precise, stick reacts to subtlest of touches, no noticable lag. One thing that I would say it slightly different is the rumble, it feels like the motor inside isn't as big as the original which makes sense cos it's contained in a smaller space. I'm going to crack out the Original sometime with my converter to compare the rumble. The rumble still feels a lot better than the rumble we get in many controllers today though... the worst rumble I know of is the Xbox Elite 2, which feels like an annoying buzzing feeling and has been the only controller where I turn off the rumble whenever I use it.

Funnily enough, I bought this controller NSO N64 controller when it came out first around the time I heard about the MiSTer core, but I never even got around to opening it either and actually never even got around to installing the MiSTer even... I think I couldn't be bothered at this point. I will just play all the N64 this way through N64recomp, because the ports are very likely going to come thick and fast with this new method.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I want Quest 64 at 4K120 with path tracing. Is this possible?

 

[violence]

Awesome. Playing Zelda OoT at 4K120 was a trip. I'm looking forward to Goldeneye at 60+.

 

[alphachino]

Alex Bukkake in with a video

 

[violence]

Alex Bukkake in with a video

I googled that name and got undesirable results.

 

[KloetenQuetsche]

Can I get a link to a description of the process and what I need?

 

[Doczu]

I want Quest 64 at 4K120 with path tracing. Is this possible?

Well everything will be possible when the recompiled spurce code releases.

I hope many more of these games will get released and afterwards ported to other platforms.

SM64 for the 3DS is dope. 60 frames, native widescreen and analog support make it the best portsble Mario 64.

 

[alphachino]

Can I get a link to a description of the process and what I need?

it's real easy, just search for zelda64recomp, https://github.com/Mr-Wiseguy/Zelda64Recomp

and you need a copy of n64 majora's mask rom

 

[alphachino]

Well everything will be possible when the recompiled spurce code releases.

I hope many more of these games will get released and afterwards ported to other platforms.

SM64 for the 3DS is dope. 60 frames, native widescreen and analog support make it the best portsble Mario 64.

I hope it can possibly get downported to Vulkan 1.1 and ARM so I can play it on my RG353P @120hz

 

[nush]

Can I get a link

 

[Clear]

Emulation isn't preservation.

Its all very well keeping games playable for anyone willing to download the necessary stuff, but actually preserving the original physical media and packaging and the hardware to run it, is another thing altogether.

This should be a real concern especially for early titles that were released on home computers and other small-run platforms. Those titles deserve preservation because they represent a "lost world" of games, stuff that wasn't especially well known even in its day, and risks vanishing completely in the future. Or if copies exist, they are "cracked" versions and therefore not always perfectly functional.

Not saying this to diminish the value and utility of emulation, just to remind people how much is getting lost in the mists of time because of a lack of actual historic preservation.

 

[nkarafo]

Emulation isn't preservation.

Its all very well keeping games playable for anyone willing to download the necessary stuff, but actually preserving the original physical media and packaging and the hardware to run it, is another thing altogether.

This should be a real concern especially for early titles that were released on home computers and other small-run platforms. Those titles deserve preservation because they represent a "lost world" of games, stuff that wasn't especially well known even in its day, and risks vanishing completely in the future. Or if copies exist, they are "cracked" versions and therefore not always perfectly functional.

Not saying this to diminish the value and utility of emulation, just to remind people how much is getting lost in the mists of time because of a lack of actual historic preservation.

Physical things break. Give it enough time and no working CD or cartridge will exist anymore. Same with old hardware.

Dumping those CDs/carts into fresh storage mediums or uploading them to various servers means the data will last as long as at least one person has access to it and can back it up.

Also, emulation is preservation, as long as it's accurate enough. There are plenty of accurate emulators out there for many systems, thankfully. And in the future there will be more.

 

[BigDeadFreak]

Majora’s Mask super ultrawide @240hz

This is using the NSO N64 controller via 8bitdo v2 Bluetooth dongle. Rumble is fully supported.

What TV are you using?

 

[raul3d]

Just to correct OP, the N64 mister core is not as accurate as Ares so don't be too quick to dismiss emulation.

How do you come to that conclusion? I would say both have their ups and downs and in terms of accuracy are similar.

Here is a recent high level evaluation of the N64 core developer:
https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?p=85722#p85722

 

[alphachino]

What TV are you using?

that's not a tv haha, it's the samsung OLED G9

 

[nkarafo]

How do you come to that conclusion?

A lot of long standing timing issues seem to have been fixed in Ares. Like some demos/attract modes in games like EWJ 3D, Quake 2, etc.

Though i have no idea if these are fixed in the FPGA core as of now. The youtuber uploading all the FPGA videos never showed those cases even though he said he would. He only seems to demonstrate how good the graphics look, but the graphics have always been perfect in emulation ever since angrylion and Parallel RDP.

Either way my argument still stands. There's this myth that FPGA is inherently more accurate and more faithful than software emulation, which was started by the Analogue products marketing i think. And then, it was spread by all the retro collecting youtubers because these people have a bias against emulation, mostly due to them not knowing any better (most of them are still in the zSNES/ePSXe phase so no wonder they have a bad experience of bugs and inaccuracies).

FPGA is simpler though, there's only a single core for any given system most of the time, as opposed to having lots of different emulators and ending up with the worst ones because they were the first entry in a Google search. Or because you are expecting miracles from the raspberry you just bought for a few pennies.

 

[Drew1440]

Could this be sued to port N64 games to other consoles as homebrew applications, or is a more stronger CPU/brute force required for this? Kind of interested how these games would look if they were adapted for the Dreamcast, or Gamecube as psudo-remasters.

 

[alphachino]

Could this be sued to port N64 games to other consoles as homebrew applications, or is a more stronger CPU/brute force required for this? Kind of interested how these games would look if they were adapted for the Dreamcast, or Gamecube as psudo-remasters.

it could be possible in theory, but right now, the target device needs to support AVX and Vulkan 1.2 or DirectX 12, so... yeah

 

[Kssio_Aug]

This looks awesome!

 

[Thabass]

I recently played Majora's Mask using this recomp from start to finish. Flawless experience. It's a wonder to behold. Mostly done by one person, right? MrWiseGuy? I know he's had some help with some other devs. Dude is a legend.

 

[00_Zer0]

I recently played Majora's Mask using this recomp from start to finish. Flawless experience. It's a wonder to behold. Mostly done by one person, right? MrWiseGuy? I know he's had some help with some other devs. Dude is a legend.

What's amazing is that this recomp method can be used on every N64 game out there. It's just going to take time for the community to come together to release them. No doubt we will be enjoying many N64 classics sometime in the future. It will be interesting to see what can be learned from this recomp method and how it can apply to other N64 games, and also to other gaming consoles as well.

 

[Doczu]

it could be possible in theory, but right now, the target device needs to support AVX and Vulkan 1.2 or DirectX 12, so... yeah

Hmm, how is the Majora's recomp different from the Super Mario 64 one?
Mario got ported to many consoles, 3DS included and thst doesn't support DX12

 

[AMSCD]

Hmm, how is the Majora's recomp different from the Super Mario 64 one?
Mario got ported to many consoles, 3DS included and thst doesn't support DX12

Wasn't the Super Mario one a decompilation?

 

[KuraiShidosha]

I can't wait for the day this works for all ROMs. It runs utterly brilliant on my machine. The biggest thing for me is no lag or timing issues vs emulation. For instance, compare GoldenEye 64 on a real console vs emulator. There's hideous stuttering and hitching from various actions like changing weapons or hitting the pause button to bring up the watch. Even cycling through the menus in the watch is stutter city. This recomp solved that in Majora's Mask when entering and exiting the pause screen so I'd love to see this available for all N64 games. Pull me up out of the swamp that is dog shit N64 emulation scene, please!

 

[alphachino]

Hmm, how is the Majora's recomp different from the Super Mario 64 one?
Mario got ported to many consoles, 3DS included and thst doesn't support DX12

The decomp was manually decompiled by hand to c code so is human readable. I havent looked too deeply into it, but i guess this new recomp can be re-targetted for any platform technically. If there’s a will there’s a way after all. I just believe that Mr. Wiseguy’s targets most likely wont include those systems, but a lot of the legwork is already done for someone else to make it happen

 

[RaySoft]

Majora’s Mask super ultrawide @240hz

This is using the NSO N64 controller via 8bitdo v2 Bluetooth dongle. Rumble is fully supported.

I have the Adaptoid USB dongle to connect a real N64 controller to the PC, but even though windows sees the controller and all buttons working, the recompiler don't seem to support it:-/

 

[alphachino]

v1.0.1 of zelda64recomp just released with a few bugfixes

 

[alphachino]

I have the Adaptoid USB dongle to connect a real N64 controller to the PC, but even though windows sees the controller and all buttons working, the recompiler don't seem to support it:-/

add the .exe into Steam as a non-steam game, and use steam-input as the input translation layer should sort you.

 

[violence]

If you’re serious about N64 emulation, it’s a good idea to get a 64 controller, And because Nintendo’s official switch 64 controller is hard to get working on emulation. I recommend Tribute 64 wireless. (some like the brawler 64 but there’s no built-in rumble.) One of my favorite upgrades over using the series controller. The wireless version of the tribute 64 had some tweaks to the design that make it superior to the wired version.

 

[RaySoft]

add the .exe into Steam as a non-steam game, and use steam-input as the input translation layer should sort you.

Good option, but doesn't work either. Steam don't see the controller either:-/ I can use windows' game controller calibration which sees all the buttons and analogue stick.

 

[Soodanim]

If you’re serious about N64 emulation, it’s a good idea to get a 64 controller, And because Nintendo’s official switch 64 controller is hard to get working on emulation. I recommend Tribute 64 wireless. (some like the brawler 64 but there’s no built-in rumble.) One of my favorite upgrades over using the series controller. The wireless version of the tribute 64 had some tweaks to the design that make it superior to the wired version.

I was excited for a moment, but then I realised it's a Retrobit. My Saturn controller's d-pad flat out snapped within the first 5 hours of use, and instead of risking the same with the Mega Drive one I bought I instead bought an 8bitdo M30. As much as I'd love to own that, I don't trust Retrobit's quality.

 

[Tazzu]

Any chance this could happen with other consoles?

 

[alphachino]

Any chance this could happen with the consoles?

what do you mean? N64 is a console

 

[lefty1117]

I'm sure nintendo is all for it

 

[nkarafo]

If you’re serious about N64 emulation, it’s a good idea to get a 64 controller, And because Nintendo’s official switch 64 controller is hard to get working on emulation. I recommend Tribute 64 wireless. (some like the brawler 64 but there’s no built-in rumble.) One of my favorite upgrades over using the series controller. The wireless version of the tribute 64 had some tweaks to the design that make it superior to the wired version.

This design makes some FPS control options unusable though. For instance, you can't hold the analog stick with your right thumb like you can with the original N64 controller, which is the closest you can get to modern controls.

 

[Shadowstar39]

If it only takes seconds, why is this game the only one? What about ps1 games? TG16, Genesis, Dreamcast, etc..
Also what are the chances that big "N" shuts this down with lawsuits. They really should of done this on a non Nintendo game, knowing how big of a pain in the ass they are with emulation.

 

[CamHostage]

If it only takes seconds, why is this game the only one? What about ps1 games? TG16, Genesis, Dreamcast, etc..
Also what are the chances that big "N" shuts this down with lawsuits. They really should of done this on a non Nintendo game, knowing how big of a pain in the ass they are with emulation.

It only takes seconds to transform your Zelda ROM through this app, which is written for Zelda (but apparently has a lot of starting solutions worked out to go further into the catalog. )

Other platforms are different, if some version of this tool was attempted for other consoles, a few consoles may be doable and some may be very hard. (Funny enough, the most old platforms like 8/16 bit can be harder this way because games didn't follow set rules on them as often, they used custom tricks and even breaky code that worked anyway on hardware but would break sequence for something like this and stop it from doing its job. Newer systems however have their own issues with self-modifying code and other complications, so N64 may sort of be a sweet spot resulilting in what you get here. )

Nintendo can't (by usual methods) shit this down because they're not providing the game or anything Nintendo made, they are instead translating your copy of the game (which ideally you would provide legally) into a PC version. However, hasty judges can still take action even if laws are technically not broken.

 

[butane bob]

It's not preservation because it's not preserving the game in its original state. It's a major enhancement.

 

[Comandr]

It's not preservation because it's not preserving the game in its original state. It's a major enhancement.

Can’t you just choose to play the game in the original resolution and the original frame rate with any additional functions turned off? Then it is just a super accurate way of preserving the game, that even modern emulators struggle with, isn’t it?

It’s my understanding that all of the fancy bells and whistles are entirely optional.

 

[alphachino]

It's not preservation because it's not preserving the game in its original state. It's a major enhancement.

only if you choose for it to be that way.

 

[alphachino]

Can’t you just choose to play the game in the original resolution and the original frame rate with any additional functions turned off? Then it is just a super accurate way of preserving the game, that even modern emulators struggle with, isn’t it?

It’s my understanding that all of the fancy bells and whistles are entirely optional.

yes, that is correct. You can play it in its original form too.

Someone on REEE also mistakenly said that Ship of Harkinian forces you to play with enhancements, but no... there is an OG "N64 mode" there too, which plays the game at 20fps and everything.

 

[alphachino]